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The Once, and Future Cunt 15000+ posts
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Constant disappointment.
Almost makes me wish when Doomsday killed him he stayed dead.
I wanted them to turn around.
I'll wait for new talent on the books before I buy them again.
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Im doing the same...
although for me its been longer than two years....
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Supergirl was the only Super book I read regularly but I left when Peter David was canned.
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Kisser Of John Byrne Ass 15000+ posts
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I haven't bought superman regularly since stern left..that's been awhile....I miss good, solid Grummett style art too....
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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DC hasn't published Superman in nearly ten years.
Sure they have a guy in pretty much the same costume with similar powers but it aint Superman.
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faggot 15000+ posts
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Superman's a pud. You know what you really want. 
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Uschi:
Superman's a pud.
You know what you really want.
Actually, that's not what I want at all. Batman, by and large, has been badly written since 1986. Which is a shame, because he used to be a great character. But ever since Miller, he's been one-dimensional, shallow, and boring. His books are just as bad as Superman's these days. Kia Asamiya's Child of Dreams is one of the rare times Batman's been handled properly in recent years. Beyond that...meh. As for Superman being a "pud," he is if you go by the current comics/what the Byrne/Jurgens Sycophants™ demand he should be. But inherently? Far from it.
Not that it matters. DC's content to dig its heels into repetitive mediocrity and to service the continuity-obsessed crybabies at the expense of all else, and frankly, I'm tired of it. My days of buying DC's wares are over. I'll be leaving ALL their stuff on the rack from here on out.
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You and your Sycophants... you need a hug.
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Denny O'Neil had his moments with the character. So did Chuck Dixon, and Greg Rucka, and Ed Brubaker. Milligan had a pretty good run in the late 80's, too.
Of course, I thought the Return of Superman storyline was great, providing new characters that have actually lasted(Steel and Superboy), and one of the best Hal Jordan moments ever(defeating Mongul and avenging the deaths of the Coast City-ers).
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I like Milligan's Batman. I enjoyed Morrison's "Gothic" LOTDK story arc as well... I remember that Batman being unlike the emotionless nutcase we're so used to.
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quote:
Originally posted by the G-man:
DC hasn't published Superman in nearly ten years.
Sure they have a guy in pretty much the same costume with similar powers but it aint Superman.
Superman pretty muched died when....well when he died...
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Jeph Loeb was starting to do some interesting things (Lex finally learning Superman is Clark Kent, John Kent maybe havin alzimer's) but Geoff Johns and most likely the editors blew that out of the water with Ending Battle.
Geoff Johns is a shitty Superman writer.
I hear he has done some good stuff on Flash but I can't stand his writing.
Joe Kelly well, at first I hated him because he wasn't Grant Morrison or Mark Waid on JLA.
I learned to hate him on Action Comics for much more.
I should have dumped all the Superman titles after Return to Krypton, Ending Battle, and Day of Doom.
I don't even remember Day of Doom except praying either Superman or Jurgans was dead before the mini was finished.
Also Joe Casey is a pussy. He shouldn't be writing AOS he should be somewhere keeping kittens safe or inventing a safer rubber nipple.
"I'm a pacifist here watch me punch stuff alot in other books (maybe)."
Fuck you Joe Casey.
There hasn't even been a good stand alone in months.
Superman has not thrilled me one bit.
I like Mcginness and Owens on Batman.
Batman with Brubaker, Mcginness, and Owens should have been blockbuster.
I like Catwoman.
I think Tec has been better than Batman has lately but it gets no push it's all Hush.
Made of Wood rocked over on Tec.
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quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
Actually, that's not what I want at all. Batman, by and large, has been badly written since 1986. Which is a shame, because he used to be a great character. But ever since Miller, he's been one-dimensional, shallow, and boring. His books are just as bad as Superman's these days. Kia Asamiya's Child of Dreams is one of the rare times Batman's been handled properly in recent years. Beyond that...meh. As for Superman being a "pud," he is if you go by the current comics/what the Byrne/Jurgens Sycophants™ demand he should be. But inherently? Far from it.
Not that it matters. DC's content to dig its heels into repetitive mediocrity and to service the continuity-obsessed crybabies at the expense of all else, and frankly, I'm tired of it. My days of buying DC's wares are over. I'll be leaving ALL their stuff on the rack from here on out.
You can poop on a stick and eat it for all I care, I just felt like posting a picture to make the thread more purty.
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Made of Wood was super cool. I also dug the single issue one with the efficency expert. That one was very.
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The Uschi calmed down about the suckiness of Hush when the Uschi picked up 'Tec.
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quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
You and your Sycophants... you need a hug.
Just as long as I don't have to hug them. ![[biiiig grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
quote:
I like Mcginness and Owens on Batman.
Batman with Brubaker, Mcginness, and Owens should have been blockbuster on Batman.
You're thinking of McDaniel. McGuinness did Superman.
quote:
I don't even remember Day of Doom except praying either Superman or Jurgans was dead before the mini was finished.
That book got off to a good start, but its finale was absolutely horrible. Talk about anti-climactic.
quote:
Denny O'Neil had his moments with the character. So did Chuck Dixon, and Greg Rucka, and Ed Brubaker. Milligan had a pretty good run in the late 80's, too.
True, but there were also long stretches of "Bat-Psycho" as well, which seems to be the characterization of choice among the fans. Then again, it was O'Neil who decided that Batman should be "an urban legend nobody's ever seen" (which completely contradicts the stories he edited prior to 1994) and it was Dixon who came up with the "Joe Chill isn't the Waynes' killer" because he was too lazy to read the graveside vow in full (he stopped at "I'll find your killer" and didn't bother to read the rest). So really, even they screwed up.
quote:
I like Milligan's Batman. I enjoyed Morrison's "Gothic" LOTDK story arc as well... I remember that Batman being unlike the emotionless nutcase we're so used to.
I never read that arc. What was it about?
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Hmmm The Uschi enjoyed Powers too.
Perhaps whem Uschi has extra comic money maybe she try Gotham Central.
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quote:
Originally posted by Ultimate Jaburg53:
Jeph Loeb was starting to do some interesting things (Lex finally learning Superman is Clark Kent, John Kent maybe havin alzimer's) but Geoff Johns and most likely the editors blew that out of the water with Ending Battle.
.
Youre joking...that was the worse crap of the bunch!
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1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Uschi:
I heard that sucked.
I tried the Half a Life arc in Gotham Central and it was quite good. If you like The past few years of Batman (minus Hush) then you should like Gotham Central because it's by Brubaker AND Rucka.
As for King Krypton. Batman is not a psycho, and he's certainly not 1-dimensional. He's a very complicated character thanks to Miller, Dixon, and others. Not all heroes smile joke around.
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quote:
Originally posted by r3x29yz4a:
I tried the Half a Life arc in Gotham Central and it was quite good. If you like The past few years of Batman (minus Hush) then you should like Gotham Central because it's by Brubaker AND Rucka.
Hush was the first monthly batman I've gotten since I left with Kelly Jones. I liked Brubaker on 'Tec though. What's the focus in GC?
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Basically, it's a cop show set in Gotham.
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It does suck. It's a large piece of shit, actually.
Brubaker and McDaniel were great on Batman at times; they managed to hold me over during the crappy second half of Rucka's run on 'Tec.
Which one was "Made of Wood"? I can never remember story names....
I think Kelly has some good ideas but tends to get lost in them a majority of the time. I admit, I thought Action Comics #775 was great(probably one of the best Superman stories of the last decade).
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quote:
Originally posted by r3x29yz4a:
As for King Krypton. Batman is not a psycho, and he's certainly not 1-dimensional. He's a very complicated character thanks to Miller
You go right on believing that. As far as I'm concerned, Miller erased every single bit of depth, characterization, and humanity Batman once had in him. Writers like Finger, Fox, Broome, Englehart, Brennert, Wein, Goodwin, Conway, Hamilton, Kupperberg, Robbins, and the early works of O'Neil were the people who made Batman a complicated and fascinating character. Not Miller, who took the easy way out and made Batman the Punisher in a cape. I see no depth whatsoever in his Batman; I see a one-note violence machine with no redeeming qualities. Guys like Dini and Asamiya (and to a lesser extent, Grant, Brubaker, Chaykin, Wagner, and Loeb) have tried to restore that depth and complexity, but it always reverts to the cipher Miller instigated. If you think his Batman is the bee's knees, fine. Enjoy it. That's your prerogative. Personally, I believe Miller damaged Batman to the point where any attempt at repair, no matter how much effort goes into it, will end up being undone.
And please, don't give me the "Batman was suffering from the TV show" line. Even in 1939, Batman was never as dark and morbid as the guy Miller created. And in 1940, when Robin came in, Batman lightened up considerably. And contrary to popular fan belief, the TV series actually saved the character from cancellation, paving the way for O'Neil, Robbins, Englehart, and Wein to go back to the more serious style of old. Batman was already being played straight and made a noir-ish figure again. Miller did nothing but shear away all the humanity Batman used to have. I miss the Batman who genuinely loved his friends and family. I miss the Batman who could relax and enjoy the moment when called for and be driven and dead-serious when called for. I miss the Batman who could smile and laugh once in a while (the sparring scene in Englehart's "The Deadshot Ricochet" is a perfect example of what I'm talking about). I miss the Batman who actually had a soul. To borrow a quote from another poster on this board: "I wonder when/if this SICK obsession with Batman 'having' to be 'dark' ALL THE F***ING TIME will finally dry up and blow away. I have not been able to STAND this bastard they're passing off as 'Batman' since the late ‘80s. He's not ANY version of the hero I grew up with."
And to be totally honest, Miller ruined Catwoman, too. Alan Brennert wrote a wonderful origin for her in "The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne" (collected in The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told), in which she had been a spousal abuse victim who turned to crime because she had nothing else to cling to, and used the "plane crash amnesia" excuse because the truth was too painful and embarrassing to admit. Perfectly tragic origin, one that explained everything and made Selina a sympathetic, complex figure. What does Miller do? Makes her a buzz-cut hooker who gets into theft because she wants to steal Batman's press. And to cap it all off, for years afterwards the Batman/Catwoman romance was swept under the rug until Loeb came along (it's the only thing he did right on "Hush"). Again, Miller took a human and complex character and reduced the character to a meanspirited cipher. I'm sorry, but I can't relate to that at all. Pre-1986, the Batman mythos bristled with humanity and warmth. Since Miller, the mythos has lost nearly all of that, with only occasional blips of what used to been/should be popping up.
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Which one was "Made of Wood"? I can never remember story names....
Made of Wood was one of the recent arc on Tec.
Where Batman teamed up with Alan Scott.
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We already are 15000+ posts
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you didn't miss anything.
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King Krypton is a Pre-Crisis Sycophant.
There, how do you like it? I'm not going to waste my time writing a response. I'll just call you a sycophant.
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Miller gets a lot of crap for making Batman a psycho. However, I think he's being blamed largely for what other--less talented--writers did afterwards.
Sure, in the Dark Knight returns, Batman was a hard ass. However, that story was specifically supposed to be about an older, more cynical, Batman who was coping with the death of Robin, the forced retirement of his "superfriends," Clark Kent working for the CIA, and a Gotham City that had gone completely to hell.
Furthermore, there was, in fact, a fair amount of nuance in that story. Remember the way that Batman hugged that baby he rescued? Or how kindly he treated Robin ("Good Solder...good solider") The point was that he had no sympathy for criminals but plenty for victims. And how he agonized over--and ulimately couldn't--kill the Joker?
In addition, DKR has to be read in conjunction with "Year One" to demonstrate that Miller's Batman as a younger man was quite different.
Remember the year one Batman's look of abject horror when he thought he'd thought he killed a burglar? And the caption "I'm no killer"? Miller's younger Bruce Wayne was portrayed as very much an idealist.
Miller's Batman was dark. But for the stories he was telling it was just right. It was later, less talented writers, who ripped him off and ruined the character.
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I think it's unfortunate how so many writers ripped off Miller's DKR Batman. They failed to realize that that Batman was a possible Batman future, not the ideal or "true" Batman.
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G-Man, I couldn't have possibly said it better.
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quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
quote:
I like Milligan's Batman. I enjoyed Morrison's "Gothic" LOTDK story arc as well... I remember that Batman being unlike the emotionless nutcase we're so used to.
I never read that arc. What was it about?
Milligan's arc is composed of mostly single issues. With "Gothic," there's this fellow killing the mobsters that killed him(some magical element there), they get Batman to investigate, finds out that this guy's links go back hundreds of years, and has ties with Bruce's childhood. It's pretty good.
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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Ooooh, you're calling him Bruce now... showoff.
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How did you get out of your cage?
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Regenerated 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
I miss the Batman who actually had a soul.
Have you ever tried Gotham Knights? It is, truly, just a standard, good-old-fashioned Batman title, where Bruce is shown to have, as you say, 'a soul'. Personally, enjoy my Batman being a psycho-Keaton-style. But, it's also fun to just read a story where Batman is more sad than dark. A bit more human.
Also, there are some great 'between continuity' stories. Barbara's first mission teamed with Jason Todd. Modern takes on the old Man-Bat/Batman team-ups. Etc. Etc.
Give it a shot. You may like it.
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