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And maybe someday you'll be famous enough to change your name to Mr. Somebody... ![[nyah hah]](images/icons/tongue.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
I think what Epic needs is more books written by people I vaguely know. :)
Fair enough! That's an easy requirement. I don't even have to rethink my approach.
quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
Careful there! I ate those ducks because they were on to me.
But, Not Mxy, I have it on good authority that the Chupacabra is actually Jennifer Lopez. Check it out:
"What's unique about the Chupacabra is that ... it's sort of like Jennifer Lopez, kind of cross-cultural."
Read the full article
So far, all I know is that you're not Mr. Mxypltk, and I'm basically taking you on your word about that one. You may very well be Jennifer Lopez. In light of the facts, I think we deserve an explanation.
quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
I'll check this out, but so far it's the only Epic book I intend to flip through, let alone actually buy.
Animalman, you're giving me a chance, and that's all I ask. Well, also this: What about the other Epic books turns you off?
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Nobody:
Well, I gotta admit, I wasn't going to pick up Northwood, due to not being interested in this type of story. But Marc, you've been a helluva guy so far, and, well, my girlfriend likes the fantasy-type books, so I'll be picking it up, in hopes that you'll buy mine if it ever comes out (or you could buy the mini comics for sale on my website when my lazy ass puts up the paypal link).
Thanks, Mr. Nobody. Your girlfriend'll love it. I'll be happy to check your books out.
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I've been getting rejections for years now, and I enjoy them sometimes. But at this point I can't ever see a point where I'll stop trying to make comics, either on my own or if I can sell an idea.
I think that's the right approach. Being a writer and being a published writer are two completely different things. The one doesn't have anything to do with the other. If you can keep writing in spite of the self-doubting mental garbage that inevitably comes with stupid rejection letters, you've crossed an important threshold.
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Well, to be frank, the other Epic books sounded terrible to me. If I was going to name a writer I thought was least capable of writing a romance book, it would probably be Mark Millar. If I was going to name an artist(one that does interior work) least likely to attract female readers with his work, it would probably be Terry Dodson, a classic cheesecake T n' A artist. This combination makes Trouble a very hard sell, and judging from the reviews so far, my initial reaction was correct. The other titles are all by creators I've never heard of, and, these days, the creators are what capture my interest. Without a big name creator, the idea or concept has to be really intriguing to catch my attention. So far, the little tidbits I've seen on the premise of the stories haven't done that. Taken from here: - Crimson Dynamo - by John Jackson Miller (w) and Steve Ellis (p) - a Marvel-Universe superhero series about a Russian student who finds and uses the old Soviet Crimson Dynamo armor - first issue: 4 September 2003Not really a Crimson Dynamo fan. Sounds like fanfic revamping, to me. The art also didn't do much for me. - Gun Theory - by Daniel Way (w) and Jon Proctor (p) - a thriller about a contract killer who makes the mistake of falling in love (originally produced as a graphic novel) - first issue (of 4): 17 September 20Kind of overdone storyline. If the preview art looked really cool I might give it a shot(haven't seen anything on it, yet). - Phantom Jack (previously Nowhere Man) - by Mike SanGiacomo (w) and Mitch Breitweiser (p) - a character-focused superhero series about a journalist who can turn invisible - first issue (of 5): January 2004This was probably the most interesting sounding, but there's not really enough to sway me. - Strange Magic - by Jason Henderson (w) and Greg Scott (p) - a Marvel-Universe character-focused series about a 17-year-old girl with magical abilities, living in New Orleans - first issue: Winter 2004Eh, magic child prodigy is also overdone. The fantasy genre can either be really good or really, really bad, depending on the writer. - Young Ancient One - by Rob Worley (w) and Andy Kuhn (p) - a Marvel-Universe light-hearted martial arts story about Dr. Strange's mentor "Ancient One", when he was young - first issue (of 3): not yet announcedComical story about Dr. Strange's mentor. No thanks. - unknown title - by *Heath Amodio (w) - a Marvel-Universe story exploring Spider-Man's origin and life story... if Uncle Ben had not been murdered - first issue (of 1): not yet announcedI could have sworn this was already done..... - unknown title - by Tony Salmons (w&p) - a Marvel-Universe story starring the original line-up of the Avengers - first issue (of 3): not yet announcedThis I know has been done. Suprised Marvel would allow an unknown to use the Avengers like this.
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
But, Not Mxy, I have it on good authority that the Chupacabra is actually Jennifer Lopez. Check it out:
"What's unique about the Chupacabra is that ... it's sort of like Jennifer Lopez, kind of cross-cultural."
Read the full article
So far, all I know is that you're not Mr. Mxypltk, and I'm basically taking you on your word about that one. You may very well be Jennifer Lopez. In light of the facts, I think we deserve an explanation.
I can't be Jennifer Lopez. We alredy stablished in another thread that I'm Britney Spears. I can only be one pop singer at the time.
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quote:
Dave, thank you kindly. Don't look too hard in October, though. I'm still waiting for final approval on the script. At this stage, the absolute soonest it'll come out is Jan or Feb 2004.
Re: agents, I did try my luck with fiction agents and didn't get very far. Those were the ones who told me that my ms. would make a good comic book. I do have an agent now, and he is actually a decent guy, but all he does is computer books, so I'm not sure if that helps you out. Definitely stay away from those who want any kind of money from you. Real agents work on percentage.
Yeah, the publishers I know in my job have told me that.
quote:
I may be in the position to meet some literary agents when things finally start moving at Marvel. I'll keep you posted.
Many thanks. As I said, I can get a list of names out of an agent's directory and send them query letters, but it wold be good to have an inside opinion on even a few of them. My brothers-in-law have been struggling pop artists for many years, and they have few good things to say about agents. I'd like to avoid a bad one.
quote:
Can you share any details about your book? I promise I'll only steal your idea if I really like it. And where are you now if not in civilized lands?
I am writing two books. One is a book on entertainment law in Hong Kong. I didn't have to go through an agent to get that contract - I was approached directly by the commissioning editor of Sweet & Maxwell, a publisher of law books. This one has become bogged down, primarily due to a lack of enthusiasm as I am now leaving Hong Kong (returning to the "civilised lands" of Australia), and so there seems little point for me to write a book about Hong Kong law. Still, I will finish it - its just a question of when.
The other book is a fiction book, which is, oddly enough, about a lawyer in Hong Kong. By way of reassurance that the book is not autobiographical, the main character is female, and is partly inspired by a Law Society of Western Australia investigation into why women are leaving the legal profession en masse. It is an escapism story, recounted as a monologue by the main character while she is being chatted up by a drunk college student while they are both on holiday in Portugal. The story evolves into dire consequences for some of the characters. Its about 300 pages long, and has the potential for a sequel. I'm presently going through and editing the superfluous or poorly written (usually too dry) bits.
I've taken a long time to write it because my training as a lawyer compells me to examine every sentence to make sure it doesn't read poorly. Also, a lot of it was handwritten on my morning and evening ferry journey, and my handwriting often reflects the vigour of the ride. If there are big waves in Hong Kong waters, and my pen goes all over the place, it makes it difficult to decypher later. :)
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where did the name come from? ("northwood saga," not "marc")
and whats the current schedule? when do you find out about artists and such? will you actually meet and/or work (directly) with the artist when the time comes?
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Well, to be frank, the other Epic books sounded terrible to me. ...
Animalman, thanks for the detailed feedback. I'm not sure how Northwood will stack against the other books, but I'm definitely not trying to court the kewl audience.
quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
I can't be Jennifer Lopez. We alredy stablished in another thread that I'm Britney Spears. I can only be one pop singer at the time.
Good enough for me. Glad that's cleared up. Stay away from my ducks.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I am writing two books. One is a book on entertainment law in Hong Kong. I didn't have to go through an agent to get that contract - I was approached directly by the commissioning editor of Sweet & Maxwell, a publisher of law books. This one has become bogged down, primarily due to a lack of enthusiasm as I am now leaving Hong Kong (returning to the "civilised lands" of Australia), and so there seems little point for me to write a book about Hong Kong law. Still, I will finish it - its just a question of when.
Dave, you have the scent of a man who has already spent his advance. From a purely layman's point of view, it does seem like the most entertaining things in Hong Kong have nothing to do with law. I hope the finishing up goes smoothly.
quote:
The other book is a fiction book, which is, oddly enough, about a lawyer in Hong Kong. By way of reassurance that the book is not autobiographical, the main character is female, and is partly inspired by a Law Society of Western Australia investigation into why women are leaving the legal profession en masse. It is an escapism story, recounted as a monologue by the main character while she is being chatted up by a drunk college student while they are both on holiday in Portugal. The story evolves into dire consequences for some of the characters. Its about 300 pages long, and has the potential for a sequel.
Sounds interesting and vaguely sociopolitical. I'm a great fan of the literature of the subversive.
quote:
I'm presently going through and editing the superfluous or poorly written (usually too dry) bits. ...
So the entire manuscript is already written? That's excellent. Finishing is the hardest part. Have any non-lawyers read it yet?
quote:
My brothers-in-law have been struggling pop artists for many years, and they have few good things to say about agents. I'd like to avoid a bad one.
A lawyer complaining about agents...now I've heard everything. :)
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Hey, Rob! quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
where did the name come from? ("northwood saga," not "marc")
It was just something I came up with. I liked the sound of it.
Purely by accident and after the fact, I learned about this thing called Operation: Northwoods, which was evidently a real project by the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff in the early 1960s to find an excuse to go to war with Cuba, including but not limited to conducting acts of terror against U.S. citizens and maybe also assassinating a sitting president. If I had called the book "Water's Gate Saga," I couldn't be happier, because the subtext of the book is VERY political, but I think I've hidden my tracks pretty well. At the risk of getting myself hauled off to Guantanamo, I think I can share that the main bad guy and his cronies are shades of the last couple U.S. administrations.
My hope is that people googling for Northwood wind up finding links to Project: Northwoods, since evidently we can't rely on our national media to do their job; but, as I say, this is just a happy accident.
quote:
and whats the current schedule? when do you find out about artists and such? will you actually meet and/or work (directly) with the artist when the time comes?
Alas, there is no schedule yet. Epic seems to be taking its time. In the interim, I'm looking at some pencils, so if anyone is interested in drawing elves and dwarfs, they should let me know sooner rather than later.
I'll work directly with the artists (and, sure, we could meet up if we live close enough), I'll pick them myself from a pool of preapproved candidates or help get unapproved folks approved, and in fact I'll be their boss. The writer acts as writer/editor on Epic books. I'm planning on letting the artists have a lot of control. I have a few suggestions for things that need to be included for the sake of the story, but other than that I'm going to rely on the artists to design the world.
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Purely by accident and after the fact, I learned about this thing called Operation: Northwoods
yessir, thats what made me ask!
pretty cool hearing you have all that control over the art realm. this epic deal sounds better and better for you!
if you were comic book ruler of the world, and had your pick of any existing artist, who do you think would best fit what you have dreamed up in your head? who would you love to let run wild with the pencils? (always remembering to hold them point-down, of course)
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I like hidden subtexts. I usually don't notice them until the third reading or so, and I like that. So, the bright side of your book taking a shitload of time to get to Chile (like every other american comic) is that maybe by then I won't remember the whole Operation Northwood parallel.
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I don't like hidden subtexts, I have enough trouble with obvious ones....
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Dave, you have the scent of a man who has already spent his advance. From a purely layman's point of view, it does seem like the most entertaining things in Hong Kong have nothing to do with law. I hope the finishing up goes smoothly.
Advance!? Academic texts rarely get advances. If I had an advance I'd probably be more motivated (by guilt).
quote:
quote:
The other book is a fiction book, which is, oddly enough, about a lawyer in Hong Kong. By way of reassurance that the book is not autobiographical, the main character is female, and is partly inspired by a Law Society of Western Australia investigation into why women are leaving the legal profession en masse. It is an escapism story, recounted as a monologue by the main character while she is being chatted up by a drunk college student while they are both on holiday in Portugal. The story evolves into dire consequences for some of the characters. Its about 300 pages long, and has the potential for a sequel.
Sounds interesting and vaguely sociopolitical. I'm a great fan of the literature of the subversive.
Many litigation lawyers are closet subversives by nature - we test the limits of the law. Whereas commercial lawyers are firmly within the establishment. Any subversion in the story is firmly masked by the focus on the sheer bastardry of the profession. It takes an insider to write about the tricks.
quote:
quote:
I'm presently going through and editing the superfluous or poorly written (usually too dry) bits. ...
So the entire manuscript is already written? That's excellent. Finishing is the hardest part. Have any non-lawyers read it yet?
Well, its written, just not typed. So its as good as incomplete.
I keep threatening to make my wife read it, but she hates what she's read so far. But she's an accountant, so, y'know... >shrugs<
She always repeats me a joke:
Q: What is the difference between lawyers and accountants?
A: Accountants know they're boring.
With that in mind, and since this thread is about you, and not me, what made you decide to write fantasy? Isn't it the most difficult genre to write, because you can't draw upon your own experiences, and because imaginations can run right off the rails?
quote:
quote:
My brothers-in-law have been struggling pop artists for many years, and they have few good things to say about agents. I'd like to avoid a bad one.
A lawyer complaining about agents...now I've heard everything. :)
LOL
....hey, wait a minute...
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
-unknown title - by Tony Salmons (w&p) - a Marvel-Universe story starring the original line-up of the Avengers - first issue (of 3): not yet announced
This I know has been done. Suprised Marvel would allow an unknown to use the Avengers like this.
I'm thinking it might be the original 1950s Avengers... You know, the ones that fought the Yellow Claw or something.
That would suck, because that means I've been beaten to it. Shit.
Phantom Jack intrigues me only because I've been reading the columns on the production of it on Newsarama.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
yessir, thats what made me ask!
Rob, I didn't realize you were secretly a left-wing radical! I thought you were a Bush booster, FOX News watcher, and Ann Coulter wet-dreamer. Workers of the world unite and go to robkamphausen.com!
quote:
pretty cool hearing you have all that control over the art realm. this epic deal sounds better and better for you!
I do have some control over the process, so, yeah, that aspect is nice. I have no control over the schedule, which is making me a better person, because I'm learning about patience. I've been ready to get moving with this book since July.
quote:
if you were comic book ruler of the world, and had your pick of any existing artist, who do you think would best fit what you have dreamed up in your head? who would you love to let run wild with the pencils? (always remembering to hold them point-down, of course)
When I was a kid I had this European fantasy comic. I guess you'd call it a graphic novel, because it was printed on good paper, and it had trade paperback binding, but this was before graphic novels were everywhere. Mid 1980s, I guess. It wasn't marketed as a graphic novel. Anyway, I don't have this comic anymore. I don't remember the name of it. I don't remember most of the story. I don't remember the artist's name, and I can only vaguely see the art in my head. But from what I remember, that's the artist I'd want on the book. The art was beautiful. The closest equivalent I can think of in terms of style is Frazetta/Wrightson on Swamp Thing, yet the linework was not quite as slick and more subtly textured. Plus the character designs were fantastic. The elf-like characters had a wild, barely civilized quality, completely unlike the cultured elves that you get in Tolkien and the mildly rustic elves you find in D&D. You could totally picture these things dancing in a ring like the heathens they are under the light of the moon.
I got the impression that the book was pretty famous in Europe. I don't think it was a series. Just a one-shot graphic album in trade paperback format. And a hobbitlike character was the hero, and I think the story had something to do with a magic sword. And that's all I have to go on. If anyone knows what comic this might be, please let me know!
quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
I like hidden subtexts. I usually don't notice them until the third reading or so, and I like that. So, the bright side of your book taking a shitload of time to get to Chile (like every other american comic) is that maybe by then I won't remember the whole Operation Northwood parallel.
Actually, Chile might be a good place for me to hide once the government figures out I've been distributing subversive comic books.
quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
I don't like hidden subtexts, I have enough trouble with obvious ones....
Trust me, it ain't literature, so no worries there. Plus, the pictures will be awesome!
quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
With that in mind, and since this thread is about you, and not me, what made you decide to write fantasy? Isn't it the most difficult genre to write, because you can't draw upon your own experiences, and because imaginations can run right off the rails?
Why fantasy? OK, two reasons...(1) I like the genre, and I thought I could contribute something to it. (2) I wanted to pick a popular genre that hasn't been done to death in comic books yet. The handful of fantasy comics that exist are in the mold of either Conan the Barbarian, you know, sword and sorcery, or Arthurian legend, knights-in-shining-armor/Merlin-the-magician stuff, whereas I swiped most of my ideas from Tolkien and Norse sagas. I wanted to give comic readers something different at least, if not entirely original.
I agree that good fantasy runs in a narrow channel. It goes too light, and you get happy short people with funny ways and cute customs dancing among the flowers of Diddley Dale in Eternal Spring and playing harps and pan flutes and lyres and frustrating the plans of the evil Snow Wizard and his Magic Mirror of Endless Winter. Or it goes too heavy, and you can't enjoy the story without understanding the intricacies of language, history, and custom in the Seven Wide Lands of Elderamontolloch (known originally as Canterdallionespandalderon, but only in the Fifth Age of Fire, in those provinces where the Grand Duke of Sard held sway). Personally I can't stand either extreme. Both have the scent of unfertile imagination. The best fantasy is the flowering of a really potent imagination, and it is a thing of rare beauty.
I'm not sure I agree that you can't draw from your own experiences when you write fantasy. I think you have to do this, or else you'll get Diddley Dale or the Fifth Age of Fire. Granted, I've never seen an elf. But I see a strain of elfishness -- that slightly naughty, undominated, yet good-natured spirit -- every time I read these boards (and that's a high compliment, by the way). J.R.R. Tolkien would walk by a polluted river or an industrial dump site in the middle of his beloved English countryside, and then he'd go back to his study and write about orcs. When the fantasy elements function as symbols to some degree, you get an extremely high and pure level of relevancy. In fact, good fantasy works precisely like a dream. In a dream, the unconscious mind throws up images and events that relate to the real goings-on of your waking life. A good fantasy writer does the same thing.
quote:
I'm thinking it might be the original 1950s Avengers... You know, the ones that fought the Yellow Claw or something.
That would suck, because that means I've been beaten to it. Shit.
Phantom Jack intrigues me only because I've been reading the columns on the production of it on Newsarama.
You mean the 3-D Man/Venus/Marvel Boy lineup? That's an interesting idea. I don't know anything about the Avengers proposal, so I can't say for sure.
There's not much for me to report on the process front like with the Phantom Jack articles, but I'll be happy to give you guys your own private Phantom Jack-style updates as they come up, if that's what you want.
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
When I was a kid I had this European fantasy comic. I guess you'd call it a graphic novel, because it was printed on good paper, and it had trade paperback binding, but this was before graphic novels were everywhere. Mid 1980s, I guess. It wasn't marketed as a graphic novel. Anyway, I don't have this comic anymore. I don't remember the name of it. I don't remember most of the story. I don't remember the artist's name, and I can only vaguely see the art in my head. But from what I remember, that's the artist I'd want on the book. The art was beautiful. The closest equivalent I can think of in terms of style is Frazetta/Wrightson on Swamp Thing, yet the linework was not quite as slick and more subtly textured. Plus the character designs were fantastic. The elf-like characters had a wild, barely civilized quality, completely unlike the cultured elves that you get in Tolkien and the mildly rustic elves you find in D&D. You could totally picture these things dancing in a ring like the heathens they are under the light of the moon.
I got the impression that the book was pretty famous in Europe. I don't think it was a series. Just a one-shot graphic album in trade paperback format. And a hobbitlike character was the hero, and I think the story had something to do with a magic sword. And that's all I have to go on. If anyone knows what comic this might be, please let me know!
Does "Thorgal" ring a bell? I haven't read it, but I've seen advertising in old spanish comics.
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Actually, Chile might be a good place for me to hide once the government figures out I've been distributing subversive comic books.
Yeah... we've been distributing subversive wine and grapes for decades.
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I like Chilean wine. quote:
I'm not sure I agree that you can't draw from your own experiences when you write fantasy. I think you have to do this, or else you'll get Diddley Dale or the Fifth Age of Fire. Granted, I've never seen an elf. But I see a strain of elfishness -- that slightly naughty, undominated, yet good-natured spirit -- every time I read these boards (and that's a high compliment, by the way).
I think the correct term is actually "troll", not "elf". :)
I see what you mean about writing fantasy, though.
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quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
Why a c instead of a k?
Vince MacMahon claimed ownership of the name Mark Campbell, so a name change was in order.
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
You mean the 3-D Man/Venus/Marvel Boy lineup? That's an interesting idea. I don't know anything about the Avengers proposal, so I can't say for sure.
I saw it as a 1950s spy thriller with superheroes taking on the Commies. Or somesuch.
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
There's not much for me to report on the process front like with the Phantom Jack articles, but I'll be happy to give you guys your own private Phantom Jack-style updates as they come up, if that's what you want.
Whatever you have to share would be great.
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quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
Does "Thorgal" ring a bell? I haven't read it, but I've seen advertising in old spanish comics.
No, it wasn't Thorgal, but the art style was similar from what I remember. Not quite as Frazetta, though.
quote:
Yeah... we've been distributing subversive wine and grapes for decades.
Hey, by the way, Happy Chilean Sept 11! I just wanted to let you know that I didn't have anything to do with toppling your government personally.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
I think the correct term is actually "troll", not "elf". :)
Perfect example.
quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
Why a c instead of a k?
Believe it or not, I know the real answer to that one...
quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
Vince MacMahon claimed ownership of the name Mark Campbell, so a name change was in order.
Close, thedoctor. My actual first name is Marc with a C. The ARC comes from my dad's initials. Instead of naming me Arthur Russell Campbell the Fourth, they stuck the ARC in my first name. I am very grateful for this.
If I had been a girl, my name was going to be Kathleen.
There are a lot of Marc Campbells out there, by the way. The most famous is the lead singer in the Nails. That's who owns marccampbell.com.
So don't go believing Rob if he tells you that my real name is Marcus. One of my old interns at DC used to think this. It might have been Rob, but I forget. I tried to set him straight, but you know how THAT goes.
quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
I saw it as a 1950s spy thriller with superheroes taking on the Commies. Or somesuch.
I really want them to come out with Commie Infiltrator and Commie Medic HeroClix. I think it would be in good fun. Do you think WizKids'll go for it?
quote:
Whatever you have to share would be great.
Don't know if you saw this, but here's what I posted on ComiX-Fan about the first round of revisions...
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Telltale, this is how it has worked for me so far. I got some general comments from Teresa about what they liked about the script, along with a few very specific suggestions for ways to improve it. The input was extremely helpful.
For instance -- Teresa [Focarile, Associate Editor at Epic] suggested that I pick up the main thread of the story at the beginning of the script. Obvious, right? I had originally started with some exposition about the world, and then I built the first encounter up slowly. The crucial moment didn't come until page 6. Now, to me, the writer, the beginning of the story came exactly where I had it originally. Teresa honed in on the REAL beginning of the story. Moving some of the exposition to the background not only improved the pacing, but it also freed up some pages for more character development. All this from one simple comment. Now that's what I call good editorial.
So, I'm happy to report that there was no micromanagement, hand-holding, or hijacking. Just solid editorial input.
I'm guessing that the script will go back and forth a couple more times now. If Epic's OK with my fixes to the structure, I'll probably get feedback on specific scenes.
...and that's exactly where the project stands at this point. Teresa Focarile at Epic is supposed to be getting back to me this week with comments on my revised script.
Well, there is something else. I'm not sure if I should bring it up, but, here goes.
Outside intelligences may be trying to write this comic book.
Allow me to explain.
One of the characters in the first issue is an elf-witch named Ingalder. I thought I had come up with the name myself. A couple weeks later, I was doing some research, and I found out that one of the old Anglo-Saxon magical runes was called Ing, which stands for an unexpected gift from the gods. This is exactly Ingalder's role in the story.
OK, odd coincidence. So a few days later I'm working on a three-parter, just in case I get to do more issues. The main character's name is Udor. Again, I'm thinking that I just dreamed up this name. It sounds vaguely Nordic/Anglo-Saxon. I googled it just to see what would happen, and it turns out that "udor" is supposed to be the elf word for "water," according to an old English folk tale. ("Udor" also means "water" in Greek, interestingly enough.) In my story, Udor first meets her elf lover by the banks of a river. Hmm...
So now I'm intrigued. I try googling for the bad guy in the first issue, name of Lother. He's the brother of the king. Lother turns up as Odin's brother, and Odin, of course, is the king of the Norse gods.
All by coincidence. Freaky, huh? The only possible scientific explanation is that ultraterrestrial entities want to see their names in print.
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
So don't go believing Rob if he tells you that my real name is Marcus. One of my old interns at DC used to think this. It might have been Rob, but I forget. I tried to set him straight, but you know how THAT goes.
Your right. Rob and straight just don't mix.
Sounds like a good book so far. I'll check it out when Epic gets around to publishing it. Been trying to work out an idea myself. I think this helps me in that i can now know what to expect from Epic and a little about what might interest them. I guess the Southwood Saga might have a chance afterall. ![[wink]](images/icons/wink.gif) ![[who, me?]](graemlins/whome01.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Hey, by the way, Happy Chilean Sept 11!
Yes, very happy... ![[eh... i dunno... ]](graemlins/ehidunno.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
I just wanted to let you know that I didn't have anything to do with toppling your government personally.
No, but you're still american so you must perish!
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
Your right. Rob and straight just don't mix.
OK, good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.
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Sounds like a good book so far. I'll check it out when Epic gets around to publishing it. Been trying to work out an idea myself. I think this helps me in that i can now know what to expect from Epic and a little about what might interest them. I guess the Southwood Saga might have a chance afterall.
YE$! Thanks for the support. I must be up to about 20 copies sold now. I don't even have "Ultimate" in the title.
I'm glad you're finding these posts useful. That's the name of the game. Good luck on your idea.
This might be a good time for the Creator-Owned Speech. I've heard a lot about Marvel backing away from creator-owned projects. I have no idea if this is true, but it seems to me like it probably is. Which means that Epic is eventually going to ask me to sign away all rights to Northwood. I haven't decided what I'm going to do about this yet -- I guess it will depend on what they're offering. I'd feel better about it if I knew I was getting more than one issue. Plus, if Marvel owns the concept, they might be more willing to promote the book, since they have more of a vested interest in its success. But my inner artiste throws tantrums at the thought of losing ownership. If Northwood tanks at Marvel, I couldn't take it anywhere else, and I wouldn't be free to write a Northwood prose novel, which I'm 11,000 words into as we speak. I could find myself in a situation where I have to license back my own property.
The first thing Teresa at Epic told me was that she liked the genre of my pitch. Not that I had done it particularly well -- she didn't say one way or the other -- just that she liked the pointy ears instead of tights. So, to Epic's credit, they are looking for new ideas or at least new directions. At the same time, they're discouraging new ideas because they can't offer the same creative guarantees that a novelist has, for instance. Given all this, maybe the pitch with the best chance of success is one that takes an existing Marvel character into a non-superhero genre.
When I submitted to Epic, I made sure to send them an idea that I'd be willing to give away under the right circumstances. It's probably worth thinking about if you want to submit an original concept. Could you live with Marvel owning it?
One last thought on the subject. Good ideas are cheap. Legally, they're worthless. (Correct me if I'm wrong here, RKMB Dave.) So selling out your idea to Marvel isn't necessarily evil. Personally, I have a lot of ideas. I could be willing to part with one in exchange for some practice and exposure.
Southwood Saga. Very clever. You'll be hearing from my lawyer (RKMB's Dave) shortly.
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
I saw it as a 1950s spy thriller with superheroes taking on the Commies. Or somesuch.
I really want them to come out with Commie Infiltrator and Commie Medic HeroClix. I think it would be in good fun. Do you think WizKids'll go for it?
If I were running WizKids, there would be an entire Cold War version, compatable with every other version. So you can have Superman wail on Stalin and other famous Russian politcal figures.
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Southwood Saga. Very clever. You'll be hearing from my lawyer (RKMB's Dave) shortly.
![[um.... uh huh! ... ]](graemlins/umuhhuh001.gif)
No....no.... It's totally different. I don't have elves. I have.... um...... um...... sevles. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
Your right. Rob and straight just don't mix.
OK, good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.
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One has to decide which is funnier... the LLance picture or this one.
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quote:
Originally posted by I'm Not Mister Mxypltk:
No, but you're still american so you must perish!
One of these days, we're going to pee in the wrong backyard. Just you watch.
quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
If I were running WizKids, there would be an entire Cold War version, compatable with every other version. So you can have Superman wail on Stalin and other famous Russian politcal figures.
Which begs the question...what did Stan Lee's commies look like?!
quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
No....no.... It's totally different. I don't have elves. I have.... um...... um...... sevles. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Ah, don't sweat it. The Tolkien estate will probably be banging on my door before all is through, and then they can sue both of us.
***
I was thinking about what I said the other day about superheroes in a non-superhero genre. And then my package of weekly comics comes, and in it is Aquaman.
Aquaman. A superhero in a non-superhero genre. The guy with the water hand might as well be another character entirely. From whence comes this nonsense? I don't think I'm overstating my position if I say I dislike the new Aquaman with a special intensity. Shame on me for buying it.
I'd probably be really open to the new direction if it was a new character. A quasi-Celtic mystical water-guy is generally spot on with my tastes. But the Aquaman label does Aquaman a disservice. It doesn't bring anything to the premise of the story, either, other than extra sales from guys like me who are expecting an Aquaman yarn. If I look at the germ of the Aquaman character, I don't see how this particular new direction grows out of it, unlike the Peter David revamp, which rung more true, even if I didn't always like where it went.
Any other Aquaman readers out there? How do you feel about the new direction? Would Epic be wise to put out a bunch of books featuring Marvel properties attached to brand new and tangentially relevant concepts?
That's it. I'm renaming Northwood Saga to Ultimate Dark Ages Sub-Mariner. Pointy ears is the link.
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc Campbell:
Which begs the question...what did Stan Lee's commies look like?!
Big bear-like caricatures, much like the yellow-skinned vampiric Japanese soldiers of the 1940s Marvel comics. With a gun and whiskey bottle in each hand, looking really tiny due to the great body size.
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Oh, yeah, that's right! Sort of like Siberian Castro. We need HeroClix of these.
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quote:
One last thought on the subject. Good ideas are cheap. Legally, they're worthless. (Correct me if I'm wrong here, RKMB Dave.)
"Good ideas are legally worthless" does not compute. Ideas have to be reduced to a material form before they are capable of commercial exploitation and enforcement, at which point that can be valued. If that's what you meant (just nod yes), then I agree.
Intellectual property is my field, you see, so I could hardly be seen to go on record and say "good ideas are worthless".
I think what you actually mean is that "good ideas are a dime a dozen", and you're willing to let Marvel own one if it gives you the opportunity to run with some others.
Which is, re-reading your post, exactly what you are getting at.
quote:
So selling out your idea to Marvel isn't necessarily evil. Personally, I have a lot of ideas. I could be willing to part with one in exchange for some practice and exposure.
Southwood Saga. Very clever. You'll be hearing from my lawyer (RKMB's Dave) shortly.
I require money up front.
On your Aquaman point: I couldn't agree more, but understand the whys of it. You have a good concept, say, and want to use it. Your concept is of an Arthurian Celtic do-gooder, powered by the Lady of the Lake. But in this market, who is going to buy such a concept? (Fathom is pretty similar, but that character relies upon very pretty cheesecake art to sell.) So you hitch your wagon to recognition and continuity. Some people will buy an Aquaman comic no matter what: merge your new Arthurian concept to Aquaman, and you've got name recognition which people will buy. If the linked concept is good, then the title will sell. But the price of that is abandoning your rights in the concept: DC own it because it is now an adapted version of Aquaduct.
I'm sure Peter David is doing the same thing with Fallen Angel for exactly the same reason. The Supergirl afficianados will buy it for the hints of Supergirl's existence.
Marvel are doing the same thing with Crimson Dynamo: some kids find some kick-arse dangerous armour. Who would buy this, save for its integration into the Marvel mythos?
And even Vertigo do this: many of its titles are adaptions of pre-existing properties. Ennis's The Unknown Soldier was a fine story, but it didn't need to be about the bandaged guy from silly WW2 comics. In the same vein, I see Vertigo have recently revamped The Losers, Sgt Rock, and Human Target. They are trying to capitalise upon the existing name recognition and goodwill in an otherwise languid or not-quite forgotten concept.
Mark, I think you are lucky that Epic is willing to try something different (in the same way Vertigo is at DC), otherwise I'm sure your fantasy story would have needed Conan, Ka-zar, or, yes, even Ultimate Dark Ages Submariner to sell.
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i had a similar outlook here on how batman beyond did the "new concept, old character" thing. yadda yadda.
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....sure Speedy surrre.....
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Good ideas are legally worthless" does not compute. Ideas have to be reduced to a material form before they are capable of commercial exploitation and enforcement, at which point that can be valued. If that's what you meant (just nod yes), then I agree.
Nodding yes.
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I think what you actually mean is that "good ideas are a dime a dozen"
Actually closer to your first explanation with some of that mixed in.
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I require money up front.
Oh, all right. Here you go: $$$$$$
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Mark, I think you are lucky that Epic is willing to try something different (in the same way Vertigo is at DC), otherwise I'm sure your fantasy story would have needed Conan, Ka-zar, or, yes, even Ultimate Dark Ages Submariner to sell.
I do feel extremely fortunate, and I'm managing my expectations of sales for exactly the reasons you brought up. It'll be interesting to see how and if Marvel moves the idea toward the Marvel Universe if they end up owning the Northwood. Although...I'm having a hard time seeing a red-cape-wearing Thor fly by the treeline.
Thanks, Dave, for your diverse thoughts. And free legal advice.
quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
....sure Speedy surrre.....
Speedy?! Why didn't I think of that one? From this moment forward, I will refer to Rob as Speedy. Rob = Speedy. Thanks, britneyspears.
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cool. i'm an addict!
marc, if there was gonna be some sorta weird, main stream cross over ... what existing marvel character would you love to have the opportunity to "kidnap" and live in your imaginary world?
...also, what marvel charater would you like to write into your comic?
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Speedy, you're taking all the fun out of it if you actually like being called Speedy. Foiled again by Kamphausen! Will my day ever come?
Onto your questions, let me see... I guess I could take a stab at folding in the Norse mythos characters, but I'd have to use them sparingly and in some altered form. That, or I'd have to revise my idea of the Northwood. It would take a little banging around, but I think it could be done.
Can any Marvel history people get me up to speed on when Atlantis sunk in the M.U.? Is it before or after 800 A.D.? Because I might be able to do something with a Namor-type character in the Northwood without as much conceptual rezoning (and reasoning).
So, which Marvel characters do I want to kidnap into my world? Zero, I guess. I'm stingy, and I want to use my own toys. But which Marvel characters would I like to play around with some day in some other book, the gods willing? That question has two clear answers.
Spider-Man and Sub-Mariner.
They'll never let me do Spider-Man, because I'd age him right back up to his 1980s levels, kill off Norman Osborn, and bring back Peter and MJ's baby.
I'd infuse a bit of the old "Imperius Rex" into Subby and get him into wars with the surface world. Again, a long shot, given that Namor is the next big cinema project and not likely to be entrusted to whats-his-name who writes about elves.
So my timing for Marvel Universe projects is characteristically bad. If I do wind up on Thor some day down the road, I think I'd kick it off with a storyline that none of the gods in the Marvel Universe are really the gods of myth -- they just think they are.
'Nuff said.
Say, Speedy, who in the M.U. would YOU like to write about? And don't answer Batman.
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I am personally amused with Rob's new nickname.
Warren Ellis in his book Come in Alone is critical of Walt Simonson's work on New Gods for DC a few years back. He says that Simonson is a clearly talented individual who is devoting a lot of creative energy into a corporate franchise, one which he asserts should have been laid to rest a long time ago. Ellis shakes his head at the idea that Simonson feels compelled to "service a trade mark" rather than pursue something novel and original.
I have a lot of sympathy with this view, probably because I think that a lot of the problem with comics comes from the kneejerk compulsion to buy a publication branded with a character concept. Those people who buy anything with an "X" on the cover aren't helping things. As Ellis points out, Frank Miller's excellent 300 for Dark Horse Comics gets polite nods of approval, but fanboys went crazy when he announced he'd be doing a sequel for DKR.
I have to respect someone who decides to push their own concept rather than tout an often hackneyed character owned by a major publisher. Not only are they being commerically brave, but they're broadening comics horizons and doing the industry a great service.
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which one is speedy now? arsenal?
heh. arse.
so, which marvel character would i like to dest... write? well...
i only really like wolverine and magneto. i hate thor-speak. daredevil is not a superhero. hulk is uninteresting. cap'n america... maybe. mebbe spider-man?
i guess i really just don't know enough about the marvel universe
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kamphausen:
i guess i really just don't know enough about the marvel universe
![[no no no]](graemlins/nono.gif)
You must buy every marvel masterwork offered...Marvel up to the early 80's is good stuff.
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