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quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
but as soon as Byrne/Jurgens gets challenged, you screech, bleat, whine, and wail about how "disrespectful" people are to their work, how you want those who dare to contradict Byrne/Jurgens to go down in flames
No I didn't.
I'm explaining to you how their intrepretation is the best one and why, but you dismiss it with insults.
I've explained to you that their version works because if correctly focuses on Clark Kent being the human and Superman being the illusion.
You reply with 'go fuck yourself' or 'you're a fucking victim' or 'you kiss Byrne's ass'.
I've explained to you many times why Waid's version doesn't work and my reasons to say that it doesn't work.
I've explained to you the reason why turning Superman into SUPERman doesn't work, but again you reply with insults.
quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
(your egotistical little crack about wanting Birthright dead and buried, not to mention your dismissal of Trinity when I brought it up)
BR has to die because it serves no purpose whatsoever, none at all. It's a stupid comic book imitation of the Smallville continuity.
Imagine if the Dicrapio (sp?) Romeo + Juliet remade were to forever replace the original story just because it made more money... would you find any justification in that??
As for Trinity, it uses SA angles when dealing with Clark and Diana, even though Wagner promised that it wouldn't, that it was set in continuity, so it too must die since it's not what it was promised it would be.
Same with BR. Waid said that this project was going to explore Clark's early years with the last issue showing his first public apperance as Superman. He lied too, and in the process created this waste of time.
quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
and how the only way to "save" Superman is to go back to doing things the same way they were during the Jurgens era.
Yes, the only way to fix the character is to actually put aside the bullshit that's come out in the last five years and go back to the interpretation that does the character justice, instead of the one that treats him like a two dimensional ahole married to a bitch.
If you had actually bothered to read the Jurgens and Byrne books you'd see that they actually developed the romance aspect of the very well, and their marring Lois and Clark was justified.
Loeb's angle, continued by those that came after him, downplayed that very important aspect of the character in favor of Silver Age-style storytelling, which has virtually killed the character.
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quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
Further, you've claimed elsewhere that the Byrne/Jurgens Superman is the "ONE true Superman" and "the GOOD version of Superman," and how you think it should never be changed. The way you carry on, you make it crystal clear that you think Byrne/Jurgens should be held as holy writ.
No, I don't care if their name is Byrne and Jurgens or Mickey Mouse, I'm talking about angles and ideas.
What 'Mickey' and 'Donald' did was create the Ultimate version of the character before the term was 'cool'.
They took what had made the character work in the previous incarnations and brought them up to the forefront, putting aside the silliness of the 60's and the experimental storytelling of the Golden Age.
What 'Mickey' and 'Donald' did was create a Superman that respects the character's origin fully, not just parts of it.
I see a movie like Superman 3 and see Clark talking to Lana while watching Clark's high school photo and there's NO way I buy the idea that the guy on the picture is a nerd or grew up to become one. Same holds true for the young Clark Kent from the Smallville sequence in the first movie and the one from the TV show.
There's no way in hell that this character can grow up to become the Woody Allenesque Clark Kent from the Silver Age, not without being hit on the head by a horse. There's no way that anyone that went to school with that character would buy the idea that he'd turn into that.
So what Mickey and Donald did was go with the idea that Clark Kent grew up to be Clark Kent, a real person that happens to have super powers which he decides to use in full view of the public in the guise of Superman.
In YOUR version of the character it's the other way around, with Clark being the mask and Superman being the real one. So, in your version, the 'mask' only goes to work at the newspaper to see if anyone needs his help, while the 'real person' goes to the Fortres of Solitude to mourn his dead race.
I don't like that angle, I don't like that interpretation, so you choose to insult me for it...
quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
Don't you DARE try to pawn the blame off on me. You brought this on yourself. Now deal with it.
This is your fault, you're the one that decided to make it personal, you're the one that started with the profanity and the cursing, taking advantage of the lack of a censor here. I NEVER insulted you to begin with, that was all your doing, not mine.
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
They took what had made the character work in the previous incarnations and brought them up to the forefront, putting aside the sillines
Except that their product was something that was even sillier than what had came before.
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
There's no way in hell that this character can grow up to become the Woody Allenesque Clark Kent from the Silver Age, not without being hit on the head by a horse.
Dude, making jokes about horse accidents in a Superman discussion... that's not cool...
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny:
Dude, making jokes about horse accidents in a Superman discussion... that's not cool...
Oh, damn! I didn't make the connection. Sorry.
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quote:
Originally posted by woodstock:
Except that their product was something that was even sillier than what had came before.
How so?
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
Imagine if the Dicrapio (sp?) Romeo + Juliet remade were to forever replace the original story just because it made more money... would you find any justification in that??
Um, Romeo + Juliet is essentially the same fucking thing as the play, just edited down a bit, with the visual aspect modernized. You might as well say any faithful (as in using the original text of the play) adaptation, then. But that doesn't mean anything.
Howzabout you try "O" replacing "Othello" or "Ten Things I Hate About You" replacing "The Taming of the Shrew?" Hell, you could do Kurasawa's "Ran" replacing "King Lear," but that would get you about as far as Romeo + Juliet, because both Ran and R+J are good movies.
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quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Howzabout you try "O" replacing "Othello" or "Ten Things I Hate About You" replacing "The Taming of the Shrew?" Hell, you could do Kurasawa's "Ran" replacing "King Lear," but that would get you about as far as Romeo + Juliet, because both Ran and R+J are good movies.
But you get the idea...
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Yes, yes I do. Equating Shakespeare to Superman (at least Superman so far, for the most part) is a little ludicrous (despite how highly I think of comic books), but yes, I understand what you mean. Doesn't mean you're right.
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Disco Steve, I know you're trying to stick up for me, but please, don't bother anymore. MOTA's already won this debate. Not by being right (he's not), not be being logical or sensible (he's neither), but because DC's once again backpedaled and retreated back to the Byrne dogma after spending all their time hyping Birthright. Bascially, he won this argument because DC is stupid, and he's rubbing it in our faces.
Best to just admit defeat and concede him the victory.
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quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
Yes, yes I do. Equating Shakespeare to Superman (at least Superman so far, for the most part) is a little ludicrous (despite how highly I think of comic books), but yes, I understand what you mean. Doesn't mean you're right.
I'm not comparing those two specifically, I'm comparing the stories being adaptated into mediums different from the ones they started in and how, no matter how successful the adaptation is, it doesn't necessarily has to affect the original.
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quote:
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
Oh, damn! I didn't make the connection. Sorry.
It's okay, I was kidding around, really. The connection is fairly tenuous. I just like baiting people when these sorta threads get heated...
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quote:
Originally posted by King Krypton:
Disco Steve, I know you're trying to stick up for me, but please, don't bother anymore. MOTA's already won this debate. Not by being right (he's not), not be being logical or sensible (he's neither), but because DC's once again backpedaled and retreated back to the Byrne dogma after spending all their time hyping Birthright. Bascially, he won this argument because DC is stupid, and he's rubbing it in our faces.
Best to just admit defeat and concede him the victory.
I wouldn't call it much of a victory. Everyone still thinks he's an idiot. I'm just waiting for him to quit and leave forever.
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny:
It's okay, I was kidding around, really. The connection is fairly tenuous. I just like baiting people when these sorta threads get heated...
Lol.
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Disco? That makes me think of dancing! ** dances about the area ** ![[woooOOOOoooo!]](graemlins/smilewoo.gif) Yes, that WAS a subtle Superman insult. Can YOU figure it out? Yes, I'm talking to YOU. ![[izzat so?]](graemlins/zatso.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilgore Trout:
I have never read your writing and wouldn't think of commenting on your stories just based on hearsay or from a picture or two.
But using the MOTA logic I know that your stories blow and are obviously fucking derivative garbage and the gibberish of a fevered and damaged mind.
I can take this even further. I can tell just from this guy's posts that his stories are unreadable garbage that slavishly rehashes the exact same '80s/'90s beats over and over again ad nauseum.
And I can guarantee that I wouldn't ever be caught dead reading his stuff. His posts are bad enough.
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny:
Fuck you, Disco.
You know you were asking for a "Heh" this whole time...
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Just curious.
Does anyone know if there will be more Byrne TPBs released?
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Quote:
Snapman said:
Just curious.
Does anyone know if there will be more Byrne TPBs released?
There's going to be a new Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told TPB that has Man of Steel #1 and an issue of Superman with art by Mignola (it's Return to Krypton).
Other than that, I havent't heard of any tps with Byrne's material.
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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