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Ok, guys, battle's wide open. Am gonna post Vengeance/Naecken fight soon. In the meantime, let's see some action!
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You talk thread hog! Speaking of action, I asked for feedback on all the posts I've been writing lately, and seriously I'd still like to hear comments, please. I'm thinking of just writing all of your characters horribly out-of-character just to see if any of you are reading my stuff... ![[mwah hwah haa]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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I think everyone has done a great work so far. I gave you feedback on the chat, but I will state the same here, I enjoyed expecially the C-men post, with a great portraiture of Walker ("Mr. Turner, have the bear killed" was priceless). I also found very intriguing the Griffin posts, altough knowing what you were doing, I experimented no surpise with the appearence of the guest star. My only perplexity came with Axel post, because how id you put it, FOR ME, seemed that Axel is with Vanguard for days, while he is just from hous, if not just minutes. I think he would need somo mere time to understand and comment over the dinamics internal to the group. On the other hand, he has magic power, so he can feel the things a normal person would take at the least days to notice. Well, I talked too much... ![[DOH!]](graemlins/homerface01.gif)
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Re: Axel -- you're right. I was taking a few "artistic liberties" with the story, but then again, like anyone new to a group, Axel has gotten some first impressions which strike him as negative. Even though it has nothing to do with him personally (the team's been through a tragedy and is dreading the battle ahead, etc), he would still take it somewhat personally simply because he's emotionally immature like other 12-year-olds. I tried to show his feelings of alienation in a new environment while making comments on the team and the Complex from an outsider's perspective as best I could, just to get people thinking about things in a different way.
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Well, in general, I like what you've been doing. You've been a posting maniac for much of this story, really going at it. Heavily detailed posts with lots of character stuff. We've seen damn near all your HR characters in this story, so far, which is pretty cool.
I really liked the way you built up the suspense with Dr. Quantos and Grimm a while back.
But the sheer volume of what you've posted at times makes it difficult, at least for me, to read it all in one sitting and effectively comment. A lot of times in this story I've had to go back and reread some of your stuff just to make sure I got it all. Nothing wrong with your posting, I'm just saying.
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quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
Well, in general, I like what you've been doing. You've been a posting maniac for much of this story, really going at it. Heavily detailed posts with lots of character stuff. We've seen damn near all your HR characters in this story, so far, which is pretty cool.
Well, now that I think of it, I would like to use the Time Trust for the epilogue I will do with raptor.
That would make ALL your character will have appeared in this story. ![[cool]](images/icons/cool.gif)
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Grimm's comment made me wonder how many posts I had put into the story so far compared with others. Since I find statistics interesting, I went through the story and counted the number of posts per writer: It shouldn't be any surprise at all that Euro came in the lead with a whopping 24 posts. I came in second at 20 posts so far, though Doc and I were neck-and-neck until recently. Doc's count is 16. Grimm is at 15. Prometheus (counting Ozzy Baxter, of course) comes in at 13, but that's just because he hasn't posted as much recently -- he had a higher post count than anyone but Euro at one point. Mxy comes in with 9 posts. Cowgirl Jack is next with 5 posts (none recent -- I know she's busy with school and stuff). Captain Sammitch has some catching up to do as he's at 4 posts so far. Gooz has "phoned it in" with 3 posts (little acting-lingo for ya there ![[wink]](images/icons/wink.gif) ). Sonhaven and our fearless (but absent) leader Danny both come in with 1 post each. Not surprisingly, there haven't been any posts by Drax, Vengeance, Tobias Christopher, or Kristogar Velo (though it's not too late). In realizing how much I've personally been writing during this story and a few others (such as issue #11 almost a year ago), and having been reading through all the TOMB stories while gathering info about Mandelovia, it struck me that I rarely posted anything in the old days. And when I did write, it tended to be very much focused on my own character rather than the group at large. I tended to do a lot more skimming of the stories back then rather than a careful reading, so I rarely felt comfortable enough to write other peoples' characters. It's completely different now, though, as I've got a good handle (in comparison to the TOMB/MBL days) on the Hero Revolution Universe, having helped create much of it, and I know the team fairly well and am usually not afraid to use them if I have a reason to do so. Which is why I'm really looking forward to the Christmas story. It should give our characters a chance to interact with each other in a casual setting rather than a battlefield. I hope to see more of a "family" atmosphere fostered in the team rather than a back-biting X-baby kind of group. The reason TOMB worked so well in the old days is because there were some really strong friendships between characters, something I think is generally lacking in Vanguard, though I do see potential for that to happen more often than it has. The old MBL was generally a failure, in my opinion, because there was little to hold the characters together other than a sense of "saving the world" (from a random assortment of humourously-dangerous characters). The MBL's membership seemed to constantly rotate and few friendships were allowed to evolve as they did in TOMB. Vanguard, as we've written it, is much more like TOMB than the old MBL, but we haven't really had the chance to develop a stable cast of characters. I blame this partly on the constant action-oriented stories we've been doing over the last year, but it is mostly because the stories we've done have been moving too damn slowly to allow much to happen in the lives of the characters. Before the current issue, the stories were generally 3 or 4 months long and seemed to drag on aimlessly at times. I would honestly have liked to have time to develop more quality interaction between Chance and the other Vanguardians, but there were so very few opportunities to do so in the stories we've done over the last year. I think the ideal way to do these collaborative stories is to have each story run for about a month or so, but not much longer. In order to do this, though, people have to be able to move the story along in a forward direction when it gets "stuck in the mud," though this should always be done in a respectful way to other posters and their plans (unless they're holding the story up by being gone for a long time, such as a few weeks, in which case it's gotta move on anyway so the rest of us can continue writing). Anyway, I'm just rambling here with some of my thoughts, since it's easier to just write it all out here than in the usual chat atmosphere. I hope the Christmas story becomes a vehicle not only for the writers to continue some of their own characters' subplots, but primarily for interaction between the members of the team themselves. Perhaps the tragedy of Chance's death could bring the team closer, and develop some unexpected friendships that didn't really exist much before. I'm interested in seeing how some characters view each other -- for instance, Grimm and Banshee, two VERY different individuals. Part of the reason I want a "closer" team to be worked out (in a believable way) is that I want Axel to eventually join the team (a few stories down the road), but I can't see that he would ever want to if it was hostile to newcomers like him. I'm not saying that it necessarily is that way now, but I can't really imagine Axel becoming friends with any of the current Vanguardians, though friendships would be necessary for a boy like him to feel accepted, y'know? Oh, and I think it would be worthwhile for each of us to mention exactly WHY our character is with the team. What're the reasons for this odd assortment of people to stick together in the first place? It would be good to mention this in the Secret Files thread to make it easier for others to write your characters, but it would be even BETTER if the character examined that question for himself (or herself) in the story itself. Could make for some good character development. OK, it's almost 4 AM -- I'd better stop typing and get some sleep. ![[...rassamnfrackin...]](graemlins/grumble01.gif)
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First in a series of four group-shots, THE REVOLUTIONARIES!  Featuring: Naecken, Kristogar Velo, Mr. Mxy, Eurostar, Nowhereman, Larry Lance, Tobias Christopher, Danny Hearn and (in the circle) the late Jason Thomas. Coming soon: The Metahuman Business League!
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TTT: I look forward to seeing where you go with the Mason Templar character. He sounds rather interesting. However, and I mean this in no negative way towards you as a writer, but, I simply cannot fathom the twelve-year-old Axel as a member of Vanguard. Are we to assume that La Perdita allows child labor? Now, you may suprise me, and end up eventually swaying me towards the character, just in how you develop him. But, at the moment, I'm having a hard time grasping it. Other than that, I'm glad you have broken out of your old TOMB habits of random posts. I enjoy seeing you flesh out your own personal world here. ******* As for the Christmas story, I also look forward to seeing what others have up their sleeves. Honestly, at the moment, I'm completely blank on what I want to write for Ozzy in that story. Probably just do some small characterization and interaction between him and the team. And, I think it's obvious why he's with Vanguard...
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Phil, I can't understand your comment about the link, in your last post.
The link Rose Biggles is providing is MENTAL, having her powers similar to Phil himself.
It goes like this: Grissom sends information to the "visor" she is wearing, in the same manner he speaks to Grimm and Phil trough the communicator. Just, while the com transmits merely sounds, trough the visor Grissom send the girl not just words, but images and data, too.
The girl, then, trough her ESP powers, feeds those images and date directly to the minds of the Vanguardians and other selected people on the battle field.
So, the weack chain is the transmission from Grissom to the girl, not from the girl to the other people. If Grissom can crypt the transmission to Phil, why he shouldn't be able to do the same with the transmission to the girl?
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Different data streams.
In order for Grissom to transfer data to Rose, he would have to use a radio-frequency signal, to allow whatever electronic devices you're using to coordinate with each other. You can put that signal in whatever band you want - short-wave, TV-frequency, microwave, whatever - but unless you've got a really good system for encoding your signal and decoding it at the other end, your transmissions could be picked up and deciphered by anyone in the area with adequate technical know-how. In most of your previous work with communications systems, you rarely ever deal with security or secrecy in their use, and so I concluded that the signals transmitted and received by Rose's visor would similarly not have any sort of security encryption features.
Beyond that, why would a character previously unknown to the rest of the team suddenly be trusted to handle all its communications, no matter how sensitive the information might be??? It's somewhat confusing.
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For the technical aspect, ok, it's something I don't really understand, altough I though that the kind of signal for an "augmented reality visor" (something I didn't make up, I found it in a scientific magazine) could be deciphred just by someone with a similar device. Also, since you wrote about the visor "any transmissions it's sending", i though you didn't get that the visor merely received, while it was the girl power to send. About the girl, she has worked with grimm, as shown in the secret files story about him. So, I think Grimm trust her, and there was no other option to link all the forces on the battlefield, seeing that many have been recruited just hours before, and surely there was no way to equip (and train) them with communicators. Plus, the mental feed provides images and instant recognizion, things that a simple vocal communicator can't provide. Finally, yes, I didn't provide specs about security involved in transmission, but that wouldn't mean there aren't... just as you didn't provide an explanation at how a nuclear submergible traveled in mere hours from the equator to the polar circle, topping the velocity of two aircraft equipped with teletransportation. ![[nyah hah]](images/icons/tongue.gif)
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Just reporting I am alive. Catching up right now.
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quote:
Supposedly posted by Prometheus:
TTT: I look forward to seeing where you go with the Mason Templar character. He sounds rather interesting. However, and I mean this in no negative way towards you as a writer, but, I simply cannot fathom the twelve-year-old Axel as a member of Vanguard. Are we to assume that La Perdita allows child labor?
Now, you may suprise me, and end up eventually swaying me towards the character, just in how you develop him. But, at the moment, I'm having a hard time grasping it.
Don't forget that Axel has three years of experience as a protector of La Perdita in the PSI-Unit, and that was when he was aged 7 to 10! As far as believability goes, I just think that's whatever we make of it. The fictional team and world we've created isn't that believable in the first place -- just look who else is on or has been on the team: An angel (Tayden), a 5th-dimensional being (Mxy), a demon/angel/composite creature (Naecken), two guys from the future (Danny & Priest) and one from another timeline (Chance), the "Avatar of Death", et cetera... Given that line-up, why is a 12-year-old "witch-boy" so unbelievable as a member of Vanguard?
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
... just as you didn't provide an explanation at how a nuclear submergible traveled in mere hours from the equator to the polar circle, topping the velocity of two aircraft equipped with teletransportation.
Actually, I didn't write them in as keeping pace, I just followed along when I realized there wasn't a definite timeframe and nobody would have cared anyway. No big deal though.
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Good stuff, everybody. TTT, I think your writing has been very good; but, as Grimm said, a bit long for one sitting. Your last post was really good. Action moved quickly, and it was easy to read and understand. Your previous post, though, had really thick paragraphs and slowed it down a bit. Plus, I usually tend to hold off on interlude posts to keep them from breaking up the flow of the story in my head if I'm planning on writing. It was well done, but it's just takes a while for me to comment on posts in those situations. The only criticism I really have is some of the dialogue you gave Grissom: quote:
How would you have liked being left stranded in the middle of 2000 angry Muslims in a temple utterly forbidden to westerners after having been involved with the theft of a priceless holy relic?
This just sounds unnatural. It's very Claremont-esque in it's length. I know I used to have trouble with that sorta thing too after watching too many old G.I. Joe cartoons and Silver Age comics where exposition can only be given through detailed speeches from the characters. It's hard to get out all the ideas you want to sometimes in a clear way. Plus, I think it works better if you leave a little something for the imagination of the readers to conjure up. But, really, that was the only thing that threw me off. The rest of the post was really good.
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Heh. It's a bit of a clunky line, but I thought it was funny.
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Hey Ozzy, FYI, Brianna is affected by the cold. Despite the visual similarities, Bri isn't like Hawkwoman -- there's nothing to help regulate her temperature. That being said, I'm going to assume the clothing is light enough for her to fly in. (Totally off topic, but one day I want to incorperate this:  Into one of the stories )
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quote:
Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
Heh. It's a bit of a clunky line, but I thought it was funny.
Ditto.
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quote:
Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
Given that line-up, why is a 12-year-old "witch-boy" so unbelievable as a member of Vanguard?
See, I knew you were going to use this line of thinking. The point, I guess, is my personal preference.
It's the same reason why I hate StarGirl (Courtney from JSA), Wesley Crusher, Harry Potter, Webster, or the kid from the Sixth Sense. I simply canNOT buy a child acting like an adult. It just doesn't work with me.
Teenager? I'm with you all the way. Teen Titans is a great concept. The characters are coming into that age of responsibility, and adjusting to life as new adults. A twelve-year old, however, is generally more concerned with [INSERT FAD HERE], or, whether Superman could kick Thor's ass (well, no more I guess). At that age, from a psychological stand-point, a twelve year old just doesn't have the developmental qualities or adaptive abilities to generally handle a life so obviously crafted for serious, professional adults.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not against Axel as a member, as much as I am saying that, I cannot write a character like that. Kind of the same thing with you and Charles Walker, I'd say. A viable character, but, one that you simply do not enjoy.
So hey, as I said, change my mind... :)
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CJ: Sorry. That was some speculation on my part. I guess I'm just not sure how a woman can fly around in a dress, and stay sufficently warm. We'll just assume that she put the outfit on.
BTW, what's that pic all about? Is that you?
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Pro: I agree with you -- I never liked the idea of a kid on the bridge of the Enterprise and I find it irritating when kids are written like adults. There were several movies in the '80s in which the kids weren't very kid-like -- such as that movie with River Phoenix and Ethan Hawke (I think it was called EXPLORERS). I mean, I loved that movie at the time, but the premise was COMPLETELY unbelievable -- the young kid played by River Phoenix is also a scientist who invents a space-ship of his own design? Oh, please... That said, I've been taking great pains to try to write Axel as a kid as much as possible. I mentioned that he was with the PSI-Unit, but it should be pointed out that all the other members were teenagers/young adults from 13 to 21 at the time, and Axel would not have ever operated solo. To him, the patrolling of La Perdita would have been more like playing sports to any normal kid his age. And until the hurricane and the vampire plague, it wasn't all that serious. It was like a game. The kinds of things the PSI-Unit did to protect La Perdita was keep rowdy metahumans from doing any damage to the populace or to themselves. They generally kept the peace, and it was a relatively easy job compared to the kinds of things Vanguard's been through in its history. Still, it gave him some experience. Right now, though, Axel isn't interested in any of that. He just wants to be a normal kid -- or at least as normal as a kid can be with the kinds of abilities he has and is still learning that he has. I haven't had too much of a chance to develop the character -- and zero chances to work out his interaction with the team -- but I think what I've been writing is fairly believable. He is interested in some fads (such as THE ADVENTURES OF DISCO STEVE cartoon ), video games, comic-books, and is just starting to get interested in girls (though not too seriously, obviously). The last thing on his mind at this point is to join the team as a member. When that finally happens down the road I think it will be out of necessity rather than his own personal choice. Anyway, Axel is a bit of an experiment for me, as Pete and Chance were. It's something different, sure, but I hope it will make for some interesting writing. In the Christmas story I want to have Axel interact with every Vanguardian at one point or another in a social atmosphere -- nothing too serious or anything -- as Dr. Quantos's "foster son." Should make for an interesting new dynamic, in any case.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
First in a series of four group-shots,
THE REVOLUTIONARIES!
Featuring: Naecken, Kristogar Velo, Mr. Mxy, Eurostar, Nowhereman, Larry Lance, Tobias Christopher, Danny Hearn and (in the circle) the late Jason Thomas.
Coming soon: The Metahuman Business League!
Keep em coming!
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Good stuff, guys.
Euro: Love the pic, can't wait to see the rest of them.
Sammitch: Tesla cannons. Rock. Ouchman just got dangerous. lol
Ceej: For a costume? Character? Subplot?
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quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
Euro: Love the pic, can't wait to see the rest of them.
I will try to post one at a week.
Next one will be the MBL around the time before the Hurricane, then Vanguard at his fullest membership, during the Virus adventure, and finally the membership after the events of the current issue, with many old face then departed, and the new ones around.
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A very little foot note for whoever not familiar with the character: Baaaghrupta is a demon, not a metahuman (altough Velo or Walker, from opposite point of views, could say that there is no difference in that ).
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And to that I say
BOMBARD!!! :lol:
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:) ![[biiiig grin]](images/icons/grin.gif) :lol: :lol: ![[um.... uh huh! ... ]](graemlins/umuhhuh001.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
CJ: Sorry. That was some speculation on my part. I guess I'm just not sure how a woman can fly around in a dress, and stay sufficently warm. We'll just assume that she put the outfit on.
BTW, what's that pic all about? Is that you?
No biggie, I should have clarified. I based her outfit on an ice skater's costume (which I heard the original Supergirl's costume was based on).
That being said, how does Wonder Woman stay warm. I watched 'Eclipsed' last night when she shouts at GL and Flash 'What's wrong with the way I dress?'
Oh, and the pic? I just thought that was a really cool cape. The Vanguard Fashion Consultant will shut her mouth now.
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CJ: Well, Wonder Woman is a goddess. But, hey, if your answer is "Brianna wears a dress because I damn well say she does!", then, it's all good. Okay, I just made a short post, beginning a few things. I'll be adding to it probably tonight or tomorrow. So, no one mess with it, eh? And, what's up with this sudden use of icons in the story? ...lazy fucking writers.... Oh, and Grimm: You wrote the Luchadore bit, as I was writing it (right before posting). I guess we can just assume that he flew back into the battle. And check your PMs.
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quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
Okay, I just made a short post, beginning a few things. I'll be adding to it probably tonight or tomorrow. So, no one mess with it, eh?
Ok, but there is one thing you wrote that sounds strange:
you show the gates opening, but Grimm stated that to function, the arctifact Collins gave Naecken needs bloods of a virgin (he suggested Tayden or Brianna). I think that's a cool thing, it would be bad not to aknowledge it.
Other thing, having the Invisible man inside the fortress, it could be a good way to free Mick. I guess that's up to TTT, anyway.
Third, where the hell Amock come from? I lost tracks of him on the route of La Perdita, he has freed himself, or the Vanguardians have let him loose?
I am enjoying immensely this battle. The mix of drama and humor is something our stories have lacked for a long time.
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quote:
Supposedly posted by The Eurostar:
Other thing, having the Invisible man inside the fortress, it could be a good way to free Mick. I guess that's up to TTT, anyway.
It's also up to Mxy, I guess -- I'm not sure whether he had plans for that himself. In any case, feel free to use Griffin yourselves -- I've already got too many things I need to write before the end of this story as it is...
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
Ok, but there is one thing you wrote that sounds strange:
you show the gates opening, but Grimm stated that to function, the arctifact Collins gave Naecken needs bloods of a virgin (he suggested Tayden or Brianna). I think that's a cool thing, it would be bad not to aknowledge it.
Yeah, I didn't bother to catch that. I guess my problem with a "blood sacrifice" is that it limits the "magical connection/religious connatation" of the so-called-literal 'Hell' to a finite set of cultural/cult beliefs. Paganistic rituals aside, I was kind of under the opinion that Hell is a universal constant. Many, many different factors can open the gateways.
That, and it would slow the story down. But, hey, if it needs to be addressed, I'll do so in my post tonight. :)
Other thing, having the Invisible man inside the fortress, it could be a good way to free Mick. I guess that's up to TTT, anyway.
Well, since TTT isn't going to do anything, I've already got that part covered. It isn't Griffen that I'm using, though...
Third, where the hell Amock come from? I lost tracks of him on the route of La Perdita, he has freed himself, or the Vanguardians have let him loose?
Yeah, a fucking cool entrance, no doubt. But, I, too, am curious as to what/how/why...
I am enjoying immensely this battle. The mix of drama and humor is something our stories have lacked for a long time.
Yes, it is actually going very smooth, and everyone is really flexing their muscles here.
Love the Adem Different stuff. Love the B-Team (why can't I stop writing them?).
Phil's annoyance at the sudden 'communication liason'-shift has been perfect. I love it when you show-off that tech prowess, Philsy.
Euro, I sincerely miss Raptor for this battle. Given LL's return, Raptor, Nowhereman, Ameristar, Turkish, and Shift are the only ones missing. When is Strikeforce coming into the picture?
MORE GRIMM!! Where's Vanguard's resident ass-kicker in this mele'?
TTT...I miss Chance... :)
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Joined: Aug 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
When is Strikeforce coming into the picture?
I'm assuming that with Amuck's presence in the story, they're either already there or fast approaching...
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,919
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
Other thing, having the Invisible man inside the fortress, it could be a good way to free Mick. I guess that's up to TTT, anyway.
Nah, please don't free Mick.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
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OP
living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
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quote:
Pro: Yeah, I didn't bother to catch that. I guess my problem with a "blood sacrifice" is that it limits the "magical connection/religious connatation" of the so-called-literal 'Hell' to a finite set of cultural/cult beliefs. Paganistic rituals aside, I was kind of under the opinion that Hell is a universal constant. Many, many different factors can open the gateways.
That, and it would slow the story down. But, hey, if it needs to be addressed, I'll do so in my post tonight.
No, it neither limited nor slowed down any part of the story, but was rather designed to speed it up by dealing with a plot point that was much talked about but not yet introduced.
quote:
Euro: Third, where the hell Amock come from? I lost tracks of him on the route of La Perdita, he has freed himself, or the Vanguardians have let him loose?
quote:
Pro again: Yeah, a fucking cool entrance, no doubt. But, I, too, am curious as to what/how/why...
Patience. . .all in time. . .
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quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
No, it neither limited nor slowed down any part of the story,
According to whom?
but was rather designed to speed it up
How, and, by what timeframe?
by dealing with a plot point that was much talked about but not yet introduced.
Would precognition have helped me here? What are you talking about?
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Okay, I just read your latest post. I understand now. However, I am a bit baffled as to how to do my next post. I simply don't understand where the story should head, now. You got something going on with that Turkish illusion-thing? Or, is it just one of those things, and, it can go anywhere?
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Okay, well, I progressed some things in the story. If I stepped on any toes, or planning, it was unintentional. If something doesn't work, we can work something out with it.
Oh, and, I've got Tayden's injuries and the Gates of Hell thing covered if no one else has any plans...
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