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Okay folks...i´m sorry i wasn´t clear enough in my last explenation post...the virus is still there. I have NOT, I repeat NOT taken away the threat.
It´s still there.
Jack is simply allowing the media to think so.
All this stupid bickering (allways by the same poster that loves to gripe and pick fights) has ruined my plot for Jack spreading the so called antivirus to the latent metas and do his "mystery" thing.
Why don´t you just go with the flow and don´t judge to fast until you see what happens.
This ruined a nice story.
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""As one of our fellow posters said to me in an IM, "Good thing T5 posted when he did, or we might have actually had a story with lasting impact.""
I have had enough of this kind of treatment.
If you´re so singlemindedly stupid to post stuff like this here I´ll leave.
I´m sorry Euro, I gave it another chance, but the simpleminded fools can´t see that they have a too short attention span.
Goodbye folks, it´s been swell.
It really has.
Some of you were great to write with, some were hell.
I had some longterm plans for characters and ub plots...i see that some minds can´t handle that.
So I will leave with the words:
Have fun...stop whining so much...the challenge is to meet the last post´s ramifications and go with it...it´s not like it´s Shakespear here.
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...um...
...it's "Rachel", Chewy.
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Good post, Danny.
I would love for you guys to come join my new boards when you get a chance. I'm opening up a [Hero Revolution] section there for us to use for additional talk threads and maybe solo threads and one-shots eventually.
T5, I don't want you to leave, and I don't think the others do either. They're just asking you to clean up your writing style a bit. Nothing more serious than Doc asked of me a few months ago.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chewy Walrus:
The moral: teamwork creates better stories than short one-lined threads followed by bickering in the meantime.
Which is what I'm trying to get across. We need to communicate with each other. I told other people, though not the whole group, that the virus would only affect non-metas. I worked with them on that. There was cooperation. We don't see that much from you T5. Had you told us before hand that you had something you wanted to do and that you'd explain it later, then it wouldn't be an issue. Instead, your post just seems to be a wrap-up of the story itself.
quote:
Originally posted by T5:
All this stupid bickering (allways by the same poster that loves to gripe and pick fights)
Awwweeeee. You do care about me.
Truthfully, I'm the only one here who seems to want to talk in public about the things that are on the group's mind. If you think that means that I love to pick fights, so be it. I just think that by throwing the issue out front where everyone can see it and not ignore it gets us to talking more and resolving conflicts and problems. If you don't want to communicate with the rest of us and work our differences out, then that's your prerogative. My intention is not to alienate people, but to encourage more communication and participation.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chewy: In a lot of ways, the reason none of our characters work together well is because we as posters don't work together well. If we change that, we can change the boards. I guarantee it.
This is what we've been saying. The group hasn't come together in the stories because the writing group hasn't come together. A BIG part of the reason for that is too many people trying to shoehorn their own subplots over the main story. So many people have EVERY SINGLE THING that they want to do so laid out that it doesn't leave room for anyone else to come in write anything. Which is a big reason why I'm not excited about issue 13 at all. There are so many people who've already planned out all the things they want to do, I'd rather just not write anything in that story than come in and write and have people going on about how their elaborate byzantine subplots have been ruined.
As a group, we're not on the same page, and going back and reading the Hero Revolution stuff from it's fairly obvious that many of us haven't been on the same page from the start.
This is one of the reasons why I started the aim chats. So that we could attempt to get together and discuss the stories and work out the existing problems which were already tearing the group apart from the inside. Chewy and Euro's EPS battle was a good example of these problems. Another was the Obsidian Illumination story, which featured great writing in areas, but obvious conflicting story concepts that muddled the story to the point where NO ONE knew what was going on or what to post. The EPS example ended up working out very well for the characters involved and nicely set up potential future character interactions between the EPS and Revolution teams. Obsidian Illumination, however, was an experience that nobody wants to revisit, which is one reason that the call for the second part has not been met with a lot of enthusiam.
And as long as we're all being honest here and laying things completely out on the table about wanting to leave and all that. I wanted to leave after OI part one, which was my first full story here. That's how unejoyable an experience this story was.
But I didn't. I stayed and wrote and interacted, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. And I feel I am in many ways, a better writer and maybe in some ways, a better person.
There are many of you who I've come to appreciate as writers and even friends. But we have to learn to start communicating better with each other. And again, over the course of the last several months or so, I have considered leaving the group on many occasions. I don't want to do that. I see so much potential for what this group could be, if people would just look beyond their own characters and subplots for a moment, and see the ongoing stories and plots as a WHOLE.
I take my writing very seriously, I strive to capture other people's characters as best as I can, and if I seem harsh at times to some here, I'm harshest on MYSELF. I don't ask of any of you anything that I don't ask of myself every time I sit down to write a post.
Better communication is a MUST right now, when so many of us are very busy with our personal lives, but still have so much that we want to do in the stories.
Take Priest, for example. Priest is not a character that I particularly care for. Of Gooz's characters, I really prefer Sam a lot. Priest just doesn't seem to have a lot going for him, character wise, in comparison to Sam. Yet, Gooz and I, working together in the last story, were able to write some really good character scenes with this character. If I can write decent scenes of a character that I don't like, I know we can come together as a group and write stories that will work for ALL of us.
But it takes work. And the attitude of "it's not Shakespeare, don't worry about it." is the wrong one to have.
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And furthermore, he said, covering his own ass: quote:
Also posted by the Walrus: Solving problems simply is no fun.
This is true.
quote:
I had a two post solution to Grissom fighting the Twins, but was unable to get the second post written (I've been busy), so Grimm had to improvise for me. Which is fine.
I knew you were extremely busy. I also knew that we were purposefully attempting to keep the current story UNDER ten pages long. What I did NOT know were your intentions for posting in the story, as the times I was able to get you and Mxy together in the chatroom, no one had anything to say regarding the story.
quote:
The point is, Griss beating invincible warriors in one post by - I dunno - tripping them or something just makes for bad storytelling.
This is also true. But if you'll notice, I left the hows and whereofores extremely open so that if someone chose, they could go back in later and fill in the details. Finding ways to wrap things up quickly without slighting someone else's characters is not easy. And with Montag's brains, experience and unique teleporting ability, outwitting his opponents would not be terribly difficult. I was attempting to showcase the different characters methods of dealing with their situations. Whether I succeeded or not is not for me to say.
I'm done for now. I have to go work.
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Nice job, Gooz. Grimm, I totally agree with what you're saying. I just have no idea how the hell to make it happen. ![[DOH!]](graemlins/homerface01.gif)
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ENOUGH ALREADY! Will everyone please shut the fuck up? Thanks. If you guys put half the energy you use in the talk threads into actual story posts, the stories would be huge and very complicated (in a good way). If we keep going at this rate, we'll have to get an online therapist to talk out all of our petty issues. I personally don't have the cash for that so lets all back up a step. Issue 13, everything that I had planned is now offically out the door. I advise Chewy, Danny, Phil, T5, Dirk, Grimm, and Euro, TTT, Vengence, Cowgirl, Mxy, Tobias, LLance, Prometheus, Nightwing, Morty, Bob, Fred, Jacob and Peter-Peter-Pumkin Eater to do the same. Issue 13: Lucky. Sam is back, sorta, I wanted to bring him back, wasn't going to for a few issues, might be fun. Priest has not blown Danny's brains out, as I planned. Maybe it will happen some day, who knows. EPS ASSEMBLE? Could still happen, but I'm not forcing it. Cough cough, I think I have a virus? Maybe not. Leslie is hot and has a big booty that Phil is gonna tap? Maybe someday. Dirk going to attack alliens... Grissom has a mission for the team... Miss. X runs the evil MBL... What does MBL stand for? Turner has the metagene to turn off the metagene... cool? no? I love this smilie ![[worst. icon. ever.]](graemlins/comicguy-icon00.gif) I ready do. ... Danny is from the future? What Priest is too? Ameristar is a confusing mess... Sam is too, who the hell is phil? He don't know, maybe he should find out... someday. Who knows, who cares. I am proposing this for this upcoming issue. We keep the team together and post with other people. Yes, other people. Maybe even go as far as making a new screen name so we have no clue who is posting what. A netural screen name like Bob. Let's try something new... and have fun. If not, let's all part our seperate ways and say hi in IM passing, then just a wave and someday a stare and then just keep going. Let me know what you guys want to do. And when the fuck did I lose Mod status? ![[eh... i dunno... ]](graemlins/ehidunno.gif)
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New name: Hero
New Password: hero
I would like eveyone to post in the new story with this name... Now, who would like to start the new story?
"HR Issue 13: Lucky"
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Okay, so my idea is a little crazy. The main thing I want to try and change is the mentality of most of us which is summed up nicely by this quote from our very own Phil; “everybody - myself included - is just too attached to their character”
We all write our own characters great, we really do. Now, for a minute, stop writing your character at all. I want a very loose rule for this new story that we all write with different characters, now the big catch is that we will read the posts under the new name I created and not know who the author is (except knowing writing styles but this ain’t no secret ballot or nothing).
I know you all enough to know that you would respect my characters and not make them go out and get a sex change. Or if you have an idea like that you would bounce it off me to make sure I’m okay with it.
I have a good grip on Grimm and Danny. I don’t have the best grip on Phil. So I don’t write Phil out of character, if I post with him, I’ll talk to him a little bit before hand.
Also talking will Phil about my crazy idea, he commented, “I just wouldn't want to take the risk of damaging the storyline or others' characters”
I say fuck that and damage away. Don’t damage the character, write them in character and don’t change there attitude. But feel free to take them in a little bit of a new direction. I want everyone to have FREE reign over every character in this story (and maybe even the future).
No having characters wake up from a dream (unless YOUR whole post is a dream). Feel free to edit and proof read other posts (I’ve always wanted to have someone do this… might be cool).
If you want Priest to fight a 50 foot tall monkey? Go for it. You want the EPS to attack and kill Priest? Please ask me first and if I like the idea I’ll give ya a thumbs up.
I don’t want to do this unless everyone is in. Please respond below. Thank you for your time.
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Ehy, it's good to be here.
I agree with Hero here above. And I say we should try his aproach. I too thinks that the real problem of these stories, lately, is the lack to freedom (self imposed lack) in the writings of things. Everyone (my self on the front line) pushes is own subplot, delves into his own character development, and pay too less attantion to the advancment of the story. The few posts from Cawgirl Jack hwere a breath of fresh airs for me, with her fantastic additon of the subfluvial base.
Ah, and, about the chat, remembers that a few of us live in very different time zones. If I was able to partecipate months ago, when my kid got u at incredibly early hours, now that hse has settled at doing so in much more normal hours, it's really impossible for me to take art.
A little thing for Chewy: don't forget that one post, if it made Euro the most powerful meta, was my intented last post. I too vastly preferred what went instead, but don't forget the situation in which that post was created.
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Obviously our old TOMB teammate Jonah's Whale didn't get here quick enough in time to catch his alt ID... ![[wink]](images/icons/wink.gif) I've been reading all the witty banter between everyone but haven't commented, as it doesn't have anything to do with me. But I'll say this: it's good to have communication between everyone, but it would be even better if everyone left their emotions at the door, whether you're offended that Poster A wrote something you didn't like, or that Poster B chewed you out for something you wrote. That kind of arguing isn't constructive on either side. But for the most part everyone's been fairly civil, so it shouldn't be hard to continue in that vein.
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It's 'Cowgirl' Jack lol...
Anyhoo...I'm game for this new approach. It's been a little tough getting into this and I feel bad for the minimal posts. I've been reading some of the background and its not so much different styles that makes it confusing but being swamped with so much backstory.
Here are a few suggestions. I would not feel bad if anyone disagreed with me on them, since I am the resident newbie.
1. I like character limbo. We might be starting to do it in the JLR. It simplifies things. New people come in, old people go out, and the better the character, the longer he/she stays. Darwinism at work.
2. Posting as 'Hero' may make things easier. We will see.
3. Communication! I've been to a few AOL Chats, and as long as we stay on-topic (no more discussing snake reproductive organs...though that was my fault). Maybe we can post the chats (cut and paste, right?) for anyone that missed it. If you have some 'plans' for your characters, let us know. We need know you might want to make something a 'suprise'. But surprises are for the reader and we are all writers here. Otherwise you end up with a bunch of Deus ex Machine concepts flying around -- and those went out with the Greeks.
My two cents -- CJ
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Speaking of writing other people's characters, I was wondering, Mxy, if you would mind if I wrote a short piece for the Secret Files & Origins thread using your character (which I have never ever ever wrote yet, come to think of it -- I've only written Mick, not Mxy). I've got this nifty little idea in which a poor guy on vacation on the tropical island of La Perdita bumps into our favorite little demigod from the 5th dimension... it should be fun...
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quote:
Supposedly posted by Hero (well, really Cowgirl Jack):
But surprises are for the reader and we are all writers here. Otherwise you end up with a bunch of Deus ex Machine concepts flying around -- and those went out with the Greeks.
Heh. Great line. ![[nyah hah]](images/icons/tongue.gif)
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There's a limit to the 'damage' I want to see done. Particularly when it comes to the future. Just for example, you wanna write Phil going out and trying to pick up girls, go right ahead. You wanna write Phil trying to find Leslie and ending up fighting a whole bunch of guys, knock yourself out. You wanna reveal part of Phil's identity... I'm gonna have a problem with that. The only difficulty I have with this is that there's the potential to fundamentally alter someone's character even if you're not intending to. If we can find some way to make sure that we can go about this whole fun story without running that kind of risk, I'm all for it. I wanna lighten things up a bit, considering I'm one of the darker writers here. But I don't want it to interfere with what's going on in the long run. I'm not trying to be picky or make trouble, honestly. I hope you guys dig where I'm coming from.
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I post under my username and will continue to do so.
Developing your own character is fine if it doesn't detract from the main story. Excluding your character to develop them is bad. Developing them within the context of the main story is fine.
I wanna say that all my plans for issue 13 worked along these lines. I was playing the villain, and I had some stuff about Danny I wanted to reveal. I had no intention of working out how the whole plot was going to go, merely of developing a premise.
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Well, I like the idea a lot, but since it's an experimental thing, maybe it'd be better to do it on another issue, since #13 is so important for so many of the characters (including mine), and we can't afford screwing this one up.
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Probably a better way to go. Nothing personal, Gooz, it's just that some of us are already worked up for this and don't want to mess with it just now.
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What about a one shot, nothing too long and we can do it before or after 13? None of these ideas are set in stone or anything... I'm just throwing out random thoughts while not getting enough sleep...
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One thing I've got to point out, though -- Miss X is NOT a villainess (even though the character Danny don't like her). She has nothing to do with the terrorist MBL whatsoever. Anyone trying to make such a connection is out of bounds. Her motives are altruistic, even though she doesn't always play by the rules. There. Just had to say it.
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In a bit of defense (kind of a moot point now, I understand), my plans for issue 13 only really contained the deaths of a few characters and the backdrop in which the story was set. Granted, there were things I wanted to accomplish, but the point (when discussing it with Gooz and Danny) was to allow other posters the freedom to develop the story as they went along. Basically, we wanted to stray against another Fin-de-Siecle-, which, while it was a good story, was so full of retcons and "quick fixes" that it made my head spin. We were trying to stray from that as much as possible so that people would have an opportunity to post and develop characters as they saw fit. But, like I said, it's a moot point, so I'll shut up now... Oh, and Grimm... I wasn't trying to attack you or cause you to "cover your ass". I was just making an example. It's all good, bro. I appreciate your covering of my ass in that situation. Thanks. ![[cool]](images/icons/cool.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
One thing I've got to point out, though -- Miss X is NOT a villainess (even though the character Danny don't like her). She has nothing to do with the terrorist MBL whatsoever. Anyone trying to make such a connection is out of bounds. Her motives are altruistic, even though she doesn't always play by the rules. There. Just had to say it.
Sorry about that Tster, it was this passage that made me think she had to do with the evil MBL quote:
first, that 'MBL Consulting' as it is will be dissolved and reformed under a new name, which we'll have to come up with ourselves, and that she will retain the rights for the initials 'MBL' for her own purposes. I'm sure she can explain it much better than I can, but she would like to begin a project of her own she calls the 'Metahuman Board of Legitimation', a non-profit organization which will lobby for the civil rights of metahumans worldwide.
We really have too many teams with the MBL letters
Chewy, I know that that is what we had planned to do, but a lot of people didn't see that and felt excluded from the story, which is our fault for not being clear enough.
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I agree with Danny as far as the Hero ID goes. My screen name is enough of a "mask" for me that I don't need to further conceal my identity. I want people to know when I've made a good post as much as when I fuck up. I want people to talk to me about what I've done to help me improve my writing, and an alt ID would just prevent that growth that I want (hehe..... I said "growth".)
If T5 wants to leave, that's his decision; but it's not what I wanted. I just wanted him to talk to us. A lot of the disagreements that fellow posters may have had about Euro's writing was revealed to be because of cultural and language differences. Maybe the same could be the same for T5. None of us knows because he didn't talk to us to let us know. I just want us to communicate and work this out.
Gooz, your idea of us writing other poster's characters is good. It's along the same lines as Euro's concept of people making stand alone posts with other poster's characters to allow them a chance to show how they see them. It's good practice in writing other poster's character's and thinking a little deeper than what we've previously thought.
But, I'm still taking Dirk out of the main story simply for the fact that I want to tell stories with him in which he would dominate the plots. As I have stated I'm totally against doing that in main stories as they should be about the team and not one specific person. If no one reads theses solo's, I don't care. It's just something extra for those who do. As I have said earlier, I still intend to post in the main story whenever the mood strikes me. I've made it a habit of writing more and more of other people's characters and really enjoy writing Tayden and Mxy. But there are still Dirk stories to be told that do not fit in the main stories, including one or two about his lineage, that I'd like to tell.
But I still believe the best way for our group to stay together and progress is for us to talk. We don't communicate as much as we used to, and there is no excuse for that. We can IM, PM, or email each other (and some of us do) to help make sure that we understand what everyone else is doing.
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quote:
posted by Chewy:
Oh, and Grimm... I wasn't trying to attack you or cause you to "cover your ass". I was just making an example. It's all good, bro. I appreciate your covering of my ass in that situation. Thanks.
well, you know what they say. . .
um, what do they say?
yeah. . .I love you, man! not like that, you pervs!
quote:
Posted by Goozfort: We really have too many teams with the MBL letters
the whole point of the evil MBL is to bring to the front that the MBL name seemed to have outlived it's usefulness. People couldn't decide whether or not to refer to the group as the MBL or the Revolution, and no one could give a straight answer when asked what the initials MBL stood for anymore. So we created a group who used those initials that would mean something IN THE STORY. And as far as the "MBL legacy". . .um, you guys ended the MBL. The Hero Revolution was started as a completely new group with an all new Yahoo group for archiving the stories and communication, and also there are many writers here now who were never part of the MBL and for whom all the references to the old stuff don't mean anything. I'm just saying.
Push forward. Create the new. ![[biiiig grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
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Y'know, when we said we had issue 13 planned, all we meant was we have a premise. Like Doc did for the last story, and as is the case for just about every story. Sure, some of us have a few key events in mind, but that's stuff with our characters that won't restrict other people's writing.
Just sayin', is all...
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About the Hero nickname, it would be impractical to use it, because if someone forget to logout, the others are cut from posting.
About the “we are all writers” I don’t agree. We are also all readers, so I want to entertain and surprise with my post. About what happens to my characters, I will never plan and concertate with the others.
About the stories, I think everyone should dare more. Too often nobody follows situation left oen by the previous poster “to not scramble what the others are planning”. Usually no one is planning anything, and the post was left open to see what the next poster would have done.
About “working together” Chewy has some point, and his example of the Revolution is fine. I want to bring another example, The Triarchy War, or just Malvana’s Song, that was part of that trilogy of the original universe. At the time, everyone (minus Danny, but his grieves where just about the fact that it was a crossover) was very excited and satisfied about that story. But it worked because there was no planning. I was playing the villain, and no one was expecting what I had in store and posted. At my move, the heroes do a counter move. It was fun, everybody was glued at the computer to see what was happening… I understand that many of you are more interested in the quality of writing than in the “role playing” aspect of this kind of stories, but losing it I am sure it would be a very bad thing.
And I want to add that just as T5 wrote something that somehow altered the outcome of the story, the Doctor or anyone else had the power to undo it, showing, in a following post, how it was a bad interpretation of the network of what was really happening, or just misfed information form the government or any other explanation. It’s true, Doctor, that I wouldn’t be pleased to have Grimm cutting Ed in two halves, but respect for the main character is due. It would be different with the secondary character, I would have no problem, hell, I would be very pleased to see what the others would do with Hoods, Futurists, Captain Nemo, Aurochs or Frank Cavalli.
I take one episode for example, from issue 6 (I think), when Dirk shots Turner in the leg and walks away. From my point of view (Turner is not my character, so Gooz maybe would think different) it was a very bad post, showing no care for the Turner character, which has always been shown as a hyper trained agent, that should at least react instantly to the aggression. To avoid that, most of you suggest that Doctor should have talked Gooz about his idea, asking him if it was in character for Turner behave that way, etc etc.
I think a better way would be to post it up to the point where the bullet is shot from the gun, and stop there, or maybe to the point where the bullet hit the leg. Then, is Turner’s poster that writes Turner’s reaction.
It’s totally opposite to having everyone writing all the different characters, but I think it would works.
And one thing doesn’t exclude the other.
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quote:
Supposedly posted by Chewy Walrus:
Oh, and Grimm... I wasn't trying to attack you or cause you to "cover your ass". I was just making an example. It's all good, bro. I appreciate your covering of my ass in that situation. Thanks.
You guys sure like to do that ass-covering, don't ya? ![[izzat so?]](graemlins/zatso.gif)
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1 |
well, not everyone likes to walk around naked, Tryst. . .
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Joined: Oct 2001
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Not everyone has a rainbow-colored butt, either... Ha! Top that! Now get outta here, or I'll throw some feces at ya!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
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:lol: go play with yer toaster, dude.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
I take one episode for example, from issue 6 (I think), when Dirk shots Turner in the leg and walks away. From my point of view (Turner is not my character, so Gooz maybe would think different) it was a very bad post, showing no care for the Turner character, which has always been shown as a hyper trained agent, that should at least react instantly to the aggression. To avoid that, most of you suggest that Doctor should have talked Gooz about his idea,
I did. He knew it was a gag and that was all. Plus, he had Turner get his "revenge" later on. We communicated with each other and no one got hurt. Plain and simple. Also, I've made it a habit to grow away from that kind of posting since I did that one, almost a year ago.
I think the main point that I and other people are trying to get across is that a PM or post from someone saying, "Hey, (fill in name here), I thought of something that I'd like to do with (fill in character name/object/plot point) that I'd think would be pretty cool. Is it ok if I use (proper pronoun for previously stated character/object/plot point)?" Some form of communication would be nice. Had Grimm, Danny, or Mxy had made a post stating that a cure to the virus had been made, I would know, due to my many conversations with each of them, that they had something else planned. Because I talk with them in some form or fashion often, I'm aware of how they think when they write and come to expect more. I don't know that about T5 because we don't communicate often. I don't want people spoiling each other's surprises. I just want a dialogue between posters.
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Joined: Aug 2001
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How about this... We start the new story (Danny has reserved the first post) and we fucking read/write until the cows come home (always wanted to say that).
No worries, only the basic beginning planned and we work for there... as a team.
That work for you guys?
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Yes, and it would be time that the story begins.
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Joined: Aug 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
I know the Psi-Unit thing was majority rule(and, admitedly, we were tired of having TTT getting mad at us for not writing them).
That means if I find enough posters to agree with me, I can kill the B-team without consulting with you?
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Double-standards aren't fun, are they...? ![[sad]](images/icons/frown.gif)
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Joined: Jun 2002
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1 |
quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
I know the Psi-Unit thing was majority rule(and, admitedly, we were tired of having TTT getting mad at us for not writing them).
That means if I find enough posters to agree with me, I can kill the B-team without consulting with you?
Ok, here's the difference. The PSI-Unit was created and then tossed towards the rest of us with TTT going, "What's the PSI-Unit doing in all this? Why isn't anyone writing the PSI-Unit?" This rapidly became aggravating for everyone involved. They were TTT's characters, and he was angry with us because we weren't writing them.
Pretty much everyone was pissed about this, and TTT was made aware that they would be killed in the story. It was the group's way of saying "stop bitching at us for not writing these characters that you just threw out at us and expected us to write and got mad when we didn't."
The B Team was introduced by the doctor and I as nothing more than a fun little distraction while we waited for the story to move along. And we'd like to keep it exactly that, a fun little distraction. We're not pushing other people to write them. We're not shoving them down everyone else's throats, demanding to know why they're not being written. If people want to write them, let us know what you've got in mind, and we'll work something out. We just ask that people don't start adding members to the group at random. We want to keep them small, not to make them elite but to keep it a fun, simple little thing and because the chemistry works as it is.
It's hardly a double standard. Those are two completely different situations.
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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Hey - quit arguing and go to my new boards!!!
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What a can of worms this has opened up. ![[...rassamnfrackin...]](graemlins/grumble01.gif) I consider this whole killing off of my team something that's in the past, and something I'd rather live & learn from, but I can't stand by and let Grimm misrepresent what I did and what I said in such a blatantly self-serving way. Let's begin: quote:
Supposedly posted by Grimm:
Ok, here's the difference. The PSI-Unit was created and then tossed towards the rest of us with TTT going, "What's the PSI-Unit doing in all this? Why isn't anyone writing the PSI-Unit?" This rapidly became aggravating for everyone involved. They were TTT's characters, and he was angry with us because we weren't writing them.
Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. I used them as much as I could in the stories at the time I created them, and reminded people that they were there. I never created them in order to get everyone else to write them, and indeed had long-range plans for them beyond their role as background characters.
quote:
Pretty much everyone was pissed about this, and TTT was made aware that they would be killed in the story. It was the group's way of saying "stop bitching at us for not writing these characters that you just threw out at us and expected us to write and got mad when we didn't."
What the fuck? Where did this come from?!? "everyone was pissed about this"? Stop exaggerating, for one thing. And for another, it didn't matter. They were my characters, and I had plans for them. I mentioned that they were there on La Perdita as the nation's heroes as a reminder a couple of times, but never once did I ever "get mad" at anyone for not writing them. Stop blatantly mischaracterizing what I said and what I did to justify your point.
Oh, and as for your line: "TTT was made aware that they would be killed in the story." Where did you EVER get this idea? I was never "made aware" of anything beyond the fact that Gooz wanted to kill ONE member: Devlin (and Gooz did the right thing in letting me know his intentions). Nobody ever "made it aware" to me that the team would be destroyed and most of its members killed off within the course of one story. That's complete bullshit.
quote:
The B Team was introduced by the doctor and I as nothing more than a fun little distraction while we waited for the story to move along. And we'd like to keep it exactly that, a fun little distraction. We're not pushing other people to write them. We're not shoving them down everyone else's throats, demanding to know why they're not being written. If people want to write them, let us know what you've got in mind, and we'll work something out. We just ask that people don't start adding members to the group at random. We want to keep them small, not to make them elite but to keep it a fun, simple little thing and because the chemistry works as it is.
This paragraph is so full of utter bullshit, in its "O-SO-HOLIER-THAN-THOU" attitude (implying I did everything he DIDN'T do), I don't even know where to begin.
First of all:
I didn't "push other people to write them". I offered others the chance to write one or two of them if they wanted. It was OPTIONAL.
Two: I never EVER "shoved them down everyone else's throats, demanding to know why they're not being written"! Shoved them down people's throats? How, exactly, can that be done? When did I ever DEMAND why they're not being written? They were background characters not meant to take a starring role in the stories, and I never once "demanded" anyone to write them. I offered people a chance to write one or two of the members in the context I'd created them for (again, as La Perdita's government-sponsored supergroup), but I never once "demanded" others write them, and you know it, Grimm.
quote:
It's hardly a double standard. Those are two completely different situations.
Oh, right... right... of course not.
However...
If your B-Team were to be destroyed in the same way that the PSI-Unit was in issue #10, I think you'd be singing a different tune.
Now that it's already done and in the past (and that I've managed to save 3 members to use in future story plans of mine), I don't like to think about the way a few of my characters were killed off without even letting me know about it. It was highly disrespectful to me as a writer, and it was at that point that I came closest to abandoning this whole Hero Headquarters place once and for all. Euro knows how I felt about it, as he was the only one who even attempted to understand how I felt about it. Try looking at it from my perspective just for a moment, and don't let this kind of thing happen again to someone else.
Grimm, I understand how your defensiveness when it comes to protecting your's and Doc's B-Team from the same kind of thing that happened to my PSI-Unit. I only wish you would understand that I had the same kind of protectiveness over my characters as you do for yours (that we all do for our own creations), and respect that. Because of this, I'm a lot more reticent about creating characters that others might decide to kill off just because they want a character or characters to die for story purposes. I don't play by those rules, and I won't kill off another person's creation without their permission. As far as I'm concerned, the only characters anyone can kill off without checking with anyone else are THEIR OWN.
'Nuff said.
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