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Like Doc said, we really need to talk more.
At the cost of sounding repetitive, I think that we should care less about the quality of writing, and much more about the fun.
About the fact that our characters works bad because we posters don't work well together, that's a truth.I can be wrong, but it seems to me that the there are two distinct group, with very different goals and aspirations and philosophy about this role-play. Two groups that coincides, more or less, with the original Revolutionaries (up to the destruction of the Circus) and with all the ones that came later (save the true newbyes, like Sonhaven, Not Wedge and Jackie, which have not yet expressed themselves enough to let me understand them in their aspirations).
I propose to use this situation as an inspiration for a story, where we put the two group one versus the other, in the classic old league versus new league clichè that every superhero group has to endure at some point.
Just, it has not to be a real fight, we are not a comics so we don't need the obligatory fight scene. It could be a verbal confrontation, or a race to perform something in a different manner. In a classical storytelling, the outcome would be that they need to learn to work together. But we can make different. We can find that one subteam is better than the other, and the losers had to adapt or, maybe, some mberes choose to leave. Or that any way to behave is good if the results are achieved.
I really don't know. But I see a great potential for good writing that we waste in chat and talk thread, instead of sublimate it the story.
MY idea would be to have this confrontation in issue 14, it was something I talked with T5 months ago. D'Goon, the tyrant of Mandelovia, allies with the evil Naecken to assure is homeland is not wasted by the fiend.
The UN ask Vanguard to capture D'Goon, to retrieve information about how to move war to Naecken. But at the same time D'Goon contact Vanguard to have them to fulfill their promise of helping him whenever need would arise (the promise was made in issue 5, the escape from Madelovia story).
Since D'Goon is gonna to be disposed of in a future story, issue 14 would be the last story in which that cliffhanger could be used, and it seems too a good thing to waste it unutilized.
Let me know what every one of you think about it, because these day I am always on-line when there is no one on AIM.
By the way, would be totally impractical to do a chat around noon, east cost time?
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
I think the main point that I and other people are trying to get across is that a PM or post from someone saying, "Hey, (fill in name here), I thought of something that I'd like to do with (fill in character name/object/plot point) that I'd think would be pretty cool. Is it ok if I use (proper pronoun for previously stated character/object/plot point
I really understand, Doctor. But I want state loud, that for me it spoil 95% of the fun I have coming here to write. I really would prefer, if some one want to shot Euro, that he writes his character aiming at the body of Raptor, hit the trigger, and, at his own choice, have the bullet leaving the gun or hitting Euro. Then, I take from it, writing the raction of Euro. And, as my mood dictates, having him falling to the ground, or throwing Ladnikia back at the attacker.
I really want the surprise. The surprise is the singular thing that lack most in our new Universe.
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Surprise as in literary originality or surprise as in random crap made up on the spot to keep a character from looking bad? ![[yuh huh]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif) It reminds me of a conversation my brother and I had when I was seven: "Hey! I shot you!" "Nuh-uh! Force-field! Ha ha ha ha!" ![[no no no]](graemlins/nono.gif) It took me a while to figure it out, but it's really bad writing when one character gets to be the hero/winner all the time, and nothing anyone does can faze him. I've been slowly moving away from that, but it's startling how people who have been here way longer than me still haven't broken themselves of the habit. Just to throw my two cents in here.
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THAT DOES IT! I'M LEAVING THE BOARDS FOREVER! YOU BIG POOPY HEAD!
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Ok, I'm back.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
...(save the true newbyes, like Sonhaven, Not Wedge, and Jackie, which have not yet expressed themselves enough to let me understand them in their aspirations)...
Bingo. And it puts me in an akward posistion. Frankly me dears, I am now afraid to touch anyone's characters save me own out of the concern of butchering someone's characters. It might be easier for those of you that were there in the beginning to understand everything, but (and the JLR does this too and we are slowly correcting it) there are a few bloopers and then person A does something to person B's character that person B objected to and this leaves me...very...very...lost.
I think an FAQ page would be great. A basic 'Here's what you need to know' post and maybe some info on the characters. That info page we had on the characters was a lifesaver for me. A nice little summery that was headline would work wonders, IMO.
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quote:
Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
[QB] [QUOTE]What a can of worms this has opened up. ![[...rassamnfrackin...]](graemlins/grumble01.gif)
Indeed, and you've just opened up another.
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but I can't stand by and let Grimm misrepresent what I did and what I said in such a blatantly self-serving way. Let's begin:
Blatantly self-serving? I'm no more self-serving than most here. Including a certain revisionist history person who can't take an honest criticism and whose biggest reply is "bullshit."
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Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. I used them as much as I could in the stories at the time I created them, and reminded people that they were there. I never created them in order to get everyone else to write them
The following is taken directly from chats you participated in:
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"What's the PSI-Unit doing in all this? Why isn't anyone writing the PSI-Unit?"
After you made ONE post with the characters.
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What the fuck? Where did this come from?!? "everyone was pissed about this"? Stop exaggerating, for one thing.
I'm not exaggerating. Don't believe me? Take a look at the hurricane issue. See all the different posters killing off PSI-Unit members? People were not happy with you at this point in time, TTT.
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Oh, and as for your line: "TTT was made aware that they would be killed in the story." Where did you EVER get this idea? I was never "made aware" of anything beyond the fact that Gooz wanted to kill ONE member: Devlin (and Gooz did the right thing in letting me know his intentions). Nobody ever "made it aware" to me that the team would be destroyed and most of its members killed off within the course of one story. That's complete bullshit.
I quite clearly recall in a chat, Gooz and the rest of the group informing you that they were going to do this. You were there, Trust. I clearly remember you asking Gooz to leave ONE member alive, as you had plans for him, but not the others. If you had plans for the others, why didn't you say otherwise, at the time? Why did you tell us that you didn't?
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This paragraph is so full of utter bullshit, in its "O-SO-HOLIER-THAN-THOU" attitude (implying I did everything he DIDN'T do), I don't even know where to begin.
You just described your entire post.
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First of all:
I didn't "push other people to write them". I offered others the chance to write one or two of them if they wanted. It was OPTIONAL.
Again, I refer you to my earlier quotes: "What's the PSI-Unit doing in all this? Why isn't anyone writing the PSI-Unit?" You created them, threw them out, and then questioned why no one else was using them. This is a criticism that has been made of you before, TTT, and not just by me. I really wish you would stop and think about this for a bit, and not just run off screaming "bullshit."
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Two: I never EVER "shoved them down everyone else's throats, demanding to know why they're not being written"! Shoved them down people's throats? How, exactly, can that be done? When did I ever DEMAND why they're not being written? They were background characters not meant to take a starring role in the stories, and I never once "demanded" anyone to write them. I offered people a chance to write one or two of the members in the context I'd created them for (again, as La Perdita's government-sponsored supergroup), but I never once "demanded" others write them, and you know it, Grimm.
Again, my earlier quotes: "What's the PSI-Unit doing in all this? Why isn't anyone writing the PSI-Unit?" Those were your questions, Trust. ![[izzat so?]](graemlins/zatso.gif)
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If your B-Team were to be destroyed in the same way that the PSI-Unit was in issue #10, I think you'd be singing a different tune.
Do you really wanna go here?
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It was highly disrespectful to me as a writer,. . . Try looking at it from my perspective just for a moment, and don't let this kind of thing happen again to someone else.
It was. And I like to think as a group that we've moved beyond doing things like this to each other's characters.
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Grimm, I understand how your defensiveness when it comes to protecting your's and Doc's B-Team from the same kind of thing that happened to my PSI-Unit. I only wish you would understand that I had the same kind of protectiveness over my characters as you do for yours (that we all do for our own creations), and respect that.
I think you'll find by reading my posts, the instances of me not respecting characters to be rare. I didn't even kill off a PSI-Unit member.
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Because of this, I'm a lot more reticent about creating characters that others might decide to kill off just because they want a character or characters to die for story purposes.
I've often felt the same. Especially since the whole meta bar fiasco. And, no, I'm not going back into that because I said all I had to say on that at the time. Anyone who wants to bring that shit up again can do it without me.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
[QB] Like Doc said, we really need to talk more.
At the cost of sounding repetitive, I think that we should care less about the quality of writing, and much more about the fun.
You may have a point here.
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About the fact that our characters works bad because we posters don't work well together, that's a truth.I can be wrong, but it seems to me that the there are two distinct group, with very different goals and aspirations and philosophy. . .
No, you're right. I've often considered that maybe we should just split the team into two groups to better acommodate the different styles.
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I propose to use this situation as an inspiration for a story, where we put the two group one versus the other, in the classic old league versus new league clichè. . .
I think this is a great idea.
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I really don't know. But I see a great potential for good writing that we waste in chat and talk thread, instead of sublimate it the story.
Pro told me once that "the things you guys are talking about in the talk threads are exactly what the characters should be talking about in the story." I agree.
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Sammitch:
Surprise as in literary originality or surprise as in random crap made up on the spot to keep a character from looking bad?
It reminds me of a conversation my brother and I had when I was seven:
"Hey! I shot you!"
"Nuh-uh! Force-field! Ha ha ha ha!"
It took me a while to figure it out, but it's really bad writing when one character gets to be the hero/winner all the time, and nothing anyone does can faze him. I've been slowly moving away from that, but it's startling how people who have been here way longer than me still haven't broken themselves of the habit.
Just to throw my two cents in here.
Well, in MY case is the first option. Like I said, I have no problem in unexpected things that happens to my character. I know Chewy worries to have given snake insted to hairs to the little clone of Ed, but for me that's absolutely not a problem. It was not what I would have done, but it was Knell to do that, and like in real life, Euro can do nothing about it, and must live accepting that. It will makes life harder for when Ed will get back the son, but that's otential for interesting stories.
That doesn't mean that I would accept that someone would kill Euro. But I would accept that someone poison Euro and blackmail him into doing something nasty in exchange for an antidote. I would prefer to see it happens in story, surrising me, instead that I am asked in advance if I agree on that plot.
That also means that I am not accepting someone writing Euro as gay. But if someone want to write a male character asking Euro for a date, don't ask me before, just write it. But leave to me the choice to how respond to it. With a polite no, or with a hit of Ladnikia.
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Grimm, I am happy to see you like the story idea. It's something that I really would like to do, part because I am so in love with the history of this universe that I don't want that the debt contracted with D'Goon would be forgotten, and also because like Pro said to you I would like to see these problems solved (or at least aknowledged) in the stories.
I don't know if splitting the team into two would be a good idea. I am sure we should try different way of tell stories. As experiments. One time writing only after exchanged ideas by AIM or PM, another time without consulting. One time as a role play, with a master that makes things hapens and each of us just writing our character, and another time each of us writng all the characters MINUS our own. Just for fun.
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You're a funny guy, Grimm, to apparently look up a year-old chat transcript saved on your comp or something, and find one line, cut and paste the same line a few times out of the context of the chat (which is almost never serious in the first place), as if this is your "proof" that I was badgering or "demanding" (as you claimed) that people write my PSI-Unit characters. Give it up, man.
The point I was making was that killing of other people's characters without asking them if it's all right is not a good practice to follow. And until it's acknowledged that the killing off MY characters (without anyone EVER asking me if it was all right) wasn't "a good practice to follow", don't imagine that anyone's characters are safe (and you'll find that the ol' double-standard is also a double-edged sword, as people can always find excuses for anything, including the killing of your B-Team or anyone else's characters if it ever comes up). This should've been made clear in the first place, of course. A FAQ would be helpful to avoid stuff like this.
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quote:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
[QB] You're a funny guy, Grimm, to apparently look up a year-old chat transcript saved on your comp or something, and find one line, cut and paste the same line a few times out of the context of the chat
You're assuming I had to look the chat up. Those lines are straight from memory. And yes, I do consider myself quite humorous at times.
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Give it up, man.
No.
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The point I was making was that killing of other people's characters is not a good practice to follow.
No one's arguing with you on this. The point I was making was that it was brought on by your actions and your attitude at the time. The same attitude you've shown in here today.
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And until it's acknowledged that the killing off MY characters wasn't "a good practice to follow",
Nice to see you're paying attention:
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It was highly disrespectful to me as a writer,. . . Try looking at it from my perspective just for a moment, and don't let this kind of thing happen again to someone else.
------------------------------
It was. And I like to think as a group that we've moved beyond doing things like this to each other's characters.
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don't imagine that anyone's characters are safe (and you'll find that the ol' double-standard is a two-edged sword).
I'll say this again. Do you really wanna go there? I don't. But if you force me to, I will.
quote:
A FAQ would be helpful to avoid stuff like this.
I've said this numerous times now.
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Well, I'm glad that's all out in the open. As I said, the whole PSI-Unit thing is past history to me, but I really dislike it when only one side of the story is told when it is brought up. After all, nobody's willing to defend me except for me, it seems.
But as I said, I'm glad it's all out in the open, because I don't want anyone's characters to be disposed of without their permission again. Like Euro said (more or less), it's all right to put someone else's character in a dangerous predicament, but leave it up to the character's creator to follow it up (unless they're no longer around, like those from M.A.N.). These are the kinds of things we need to get straight beforehand.
And yeah, we should be expending all this energy in the story, not just in arguing. In the next story I'd love to have a chance to write straight from my imagination in a "high adventure"-type style (as in #13), but I'm not sure whether there will be much opportunity for that in the next story. I think the reason I got bored with the CIA/spy-type stuff in #12 is that it just wasn't suited well to my character, who's more of a classic adventurer type.
The kind of stories I'd like to participate in the future are ones with more mystery, more unusual menaces requiring more detective work and less brute force. I'm not a fan of big fight scenes, but I love to see scenes in which the team is required to work "like a team" together in order to survive -- we don't do enough of it, in my opinion.
I mentioned in the past that I'd like to do a time-travel series with a smaller number of posters, but I doubt at this point that I'll have any time to start it up. If I do, it'll probably be written for my own enjoyment, anyways. Maybe I'll try to sell it to a publisher or something. Anyways, I won't "reserve" the use of D'goon for the plans I had for him any longer as regards the creation of the time travel group. If I really want to use him, I can always do it in flashbacks.
I'm ready for the next story. I've got absolutely no plans for it, but I'm ready to play our little role-playing game (and I love Euro's suggestion of leaving each post open-ended for the next poster to continue). So who wants to start it?
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quote:
Supposedly posted by Captain Sammitch:
It took me a while to figure it out, but it's really bad writing when one character gets to be the hero/winner all the time, and nothing anyone does can faze him. I've been slowly moving away from that, but it's startling how people who have been here way longer than me still haven't broken themselves of the habit.
Just to throw my two cents in here.
Good point. As for me, in the next story I think I'm going to have Chance lose his whole "luck" completely. It's a crutch, and it's also something that I've never really played up all that much with him. The "luck" thing fitted Pete a lot better. Chance is more of an adventurer-by-the-seat-of-his-pants kind of guy (if that makes any sense), anyway. I'll get rid of the healing factor thing, too. He'll be just an ordinary man, now, with nothing but his human skills to help him out, and someone who will bleed when he's cut.
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Good. 'Cause next story, hey may well get cut a lot...
TTT, let me apologise for my part in the Psi-Unt thing. I misinterpreted the chats that Grimm was talking about as agreeing that the characters were free game. Apparently I was mistaken, for which I'm sorry.
People, I'm starting the new story tonight or tomorrow. Be good until then. Don't die.
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Thanks, Danny. I appreciate that, and in any event I thought you wrote a really good death scene for Stefano. Since we're between stories right now, and I felt like writing, I just wrote and posted the first part of a 2-part one-shot post called " CLIFFORD". It's a "Mxy story" (though Mick only appears a couple of times and Mxy doesn't actually appear in it until the very end of the first part), and is written with his permission. I hope all of you like it. Go ahead and read the first part -- the second part of it will be very different, and each can be enjoyed on their own. I was going to post this in the Secret Files & Origins thread, but it seems a bit long at this point to put it in there. Look for cameo appearances by a bunch of different characters in the Hero Revolution Universe.
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TTT, about "don't coming to defend you" I see that you are good enough to do it yourself. What I can say is that I never, NEVER, heard by someone that the PSI Unit was going to bite the dust.
If it was majority rule, it would have been good that every poster would be asked properly, instead to just stopping when the majority was topped.
If nobody adverse it, Danny, make the story (in story time, I mean) beginning in the end of July. I need time between last and this story to accomodate the Crimen Caligo solo story.
And, yes, I can't wait for it to begin.
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To the guys and gal in the chat of yesterday, I am sorry but my computer lost the connection and was not able to get connected again. I would have saluted you all properly. Will we ever be able to do a chat around your noon?
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Only on the weekends for me (that is if I've awoken from my alcohol induced slumber). I'm at work at noon during the week.
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny:
People, I'm starting the new story tonight or tomorrow. Be good until then. Don't die.
![[eh... i dunno... ]](graemlins/ehidunno.gif) Urkkk!!! Ughhhhhhh!!! Blahhhhhhh!!!
*THUD!*
I can only be resurrected by the power of new members joining my new message boards!
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quote:
Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
Thanks, Danny. I appreciate that, and in any event I thought you wrote a really good death scene for Stefano.
Since we're between stories right now, and I felt like writing, I just wrote and posted the first part of a 2-part one-shot post called "CLIFFORD". It's a "Mxy story" (though Mick only appears a couple of times and Mxy doesn't actually appear in it until the very end of the first part), and is written with his permission. I hope all of you like it. Go ahead and read the first part -- the second part of it will be very different, and each can be enjoyed on their own. I was going to post this in the Secret Files & Origins thread, but it seems a bit long at this point to put it in there. Look for cameo appearances by a bunch of different characters in the Hero Revolution Universe.
Very nice. You write paranoia well. Almost a Lovecraft type thing going.
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Sammitch:
I can only be resurrected by the power of new members joining my new message boards!
Just when I thought you couldn't get any more pathetic...
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quote:
Originally posted by Cowgirl Jack:
Bingo. And it puts me in an akward posistion. Frankly me dears, I am now afraid to touch anyone's characters save me own out of the concern of butchering someone's characters. It might be easier for those of you that were there in the beginning to understand everything, but (and the JLR does this too and we are slowly correcting it) there are a few bloopers and then person A does something to person B's character that person B objected to and this leaves me...very...very...lost.
Precisely why I stopped writing.
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I actually trust quite a few people to write my character now. I realized hey, it's a fictional Phil, not the real one.
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Holy crap, TTT! Clifford is shaping up to be a great story! I can't wait to hear what you're gonna do next!
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
If nobody adverse it, Danny, make the story (in story time, I mean) beginning in the end of July. I need time between last and this story to accomodate the Crimen Caligo solo story.
As far as I'm concerned, the stories happen pretty much in real time. Meaning that the story begins on roughly the date I post. But that's only a rough guideline, as it could take us weeks to write a couple of days of story time. Some other people may think differently. I don't really care.
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I am with you on the "real date" thing, but in any case I just need a few days between the two stories.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,080 |
Thanks for the kind words on CLIFFORD, guys. H.P. Lovecraft, Grimm? Hell, I couldn't have asked for a higher compliment. I must have unconsciously mimicked his style, though I'd originally envisioned it like one of the episodes of a spooky old time radio show from the late 1940s called "Quiet Please," which in turn was obviously inspired by Lovecraft and other "occult mystery" writers like him. And paranoia seems to be an easy thing for me to tap into when I write a character like Clifford. I dunno why that is... unless maybe it has something to do with the "theme music" Rob put next to my avatar... ![[wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,618
Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
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Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,618 |
Great stuff guys. Finally got caught up, and I must say the read was worth the time spent.
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