RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Writer's Block Always good to have some [HERO] communication

Excuse the Swede...Who were the F-Troop?

[ 02-03-2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: T5 ]

MBL - Mercenaries Beyond the Law.

Sitcom in the '60's about this bungling Calvary Unit. Think Gilligan's Island in the Old West.

:lol:

Legion Of Substitute MBLers

Are they killable, like the Psi Unit?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

...did we just suddenly end up having as many supporting characters as we do actual characters?

Ah, the good old rule, one characther per poster...

Yeah, that rule's been strictly enforced.

On that I agree wholeheartedly

Points for Philsy!

By the way, Euro, you are doing an especially good job lately.

Of course you all are, but Euro's writing has shown quite a bit of improvement, and I was pretty impressed.

Points from Grimm and a nod from T5 certainly go a long way too.

[ 02-04-2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Captain Sammitch ]

Well, shoot! We need to consult with each other before killing characters off? That almost sounds like a need to plan stuff!

Geez, I wonder who else has been saying that recently.

Sammitch -- every writer here plans stuff. But there was a tendency to OVERplan things which really got us in deep shit with the Old Universe. It ended up getting so over-planned that one writer was retconning anyone's posts that didn't agree with what his plans for the story were going to be. Planning always needs to have enough leeway for creativity.

And yeah, it sucks when people kill characters you created without even bothering to check with them first... (Why do you think I shuttled away Axel, Kevin & Brianna from the PSI-Unit so quickly in the story? It was to ensure that they weren't killed along with the other four.)

[ 02-04-2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: TheTimeTrust ]

I have to agree with Gooz on this one. You introduced a team of characters that you never used. Then, during the whole battle in the Castle of Cross Destinies deal, you complained that no one was writing this group that we really knew nothing about nor had time to think of. When Gooz finally did write with one of them, you got all upset with him in a chat. I think that soured the rest of the guys in this group as far as the Psi-Unit went. Besides, we really didn't see a purpose to them.

This group I've introduced, however, is a way for Grimm and me (and whoever else wants to) to do some really far out, insane stuff. While the rest of the team is off on a mission, these guys will be rummaging through the fridge or having to deal with a busted water pipe or some other very I Love Lucy-ish sitcom devices. And the Dr. Huerta character (Monkey Boy for those of you who aren't following) will give us a new way to give insight into characters' personalities since he is a psychologist. Plus, I see them teaming with Blackwulf for some funny "just like old times" adventures of their own.

quote:

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Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
The voice in my head says they must die.......

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Did I forget to mention that they are immortal.

[ 02-04-2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: thedoctor ]

Calm down, guys -- I don't mean to accuse any one person of killing off PSI-Unit -- I know blood is on all of your hands...

I don't understand the rationale that not having used characters much yet means they should all be dead -- that sounds like justification after the fact more than anything. Besides which, I had used them in minor roles and would have continued to use them in their roles as supporting characters in future stories to greater and lesser extents based on the stories involved, and sometimes of course they wouldn't be seen at all.

Ultimately, though, they were background characters not meant to share the spotlight in what is a series about MBL Consulting, so the team as a whole was supposed to be in the background protecting La Perdita (and its metahuman inhabitants) from outside forces as true "superheroes" while the MBL guys did their own adventuring thing. After all, Kit Piper and Dr. Quantos don't get spotlighted in every single story, but only occasionally as the situation calls for it.

Anyways, I've managed to figure out a way to use the last three remaining PSI-Unit members in some ingenious ways in the future, one idea of which I wouldn't have thought of if the team was still intact, so the question of the PSI-Unit is not an issue at this point. The only point that needs to be kept in mind out of respect for each of us is that of respecting each other's characters. I'm sure CaptainSammitch, for example, wouldn't like it if someone killed off Gabi or Leslie for sheer shock value without having bothered asking him if that would be an okay thing to do. See what I mean?

It makes me hesitant to introduce any new non-team characters in the future out of fear that someone will just go ahead and kill them off while I'm not paying close enough attention for whatever reason they feel like making up at the time.

Respect for each of us and our characters is all I'm asking for -- nothing more and nothing less. I'm sure we can all agree to that much, at least, in the future, aside from all this other petty bickering.

I did some fleshing out on that team but that wasn´t liked at all...dismissed even...so I had to go and do a post where my character in the team erased the memories on everyone that knew him...alas that still suits his needs though..and he WILL be back.

Oh yeah...don´t get me wrong...this would have happened anyway, but under different circumstances...so it´s allright now...he can go about his new agenda now.

I suppose I should make at least one chat post instead of leaving Kristogar hanging. While it was amusing at first, it's gotten old after... 6 months? So yeah, Kristogar and I aren't the same person. But anyways, if anyone would like to give me a little feedback on my side story, it would be deeply appreciated, I need a little direction.

Gold Baron, I find your writing very evocative, but I would prefer to judge it only when you'll post in the main story. It's too easy, I think, writing sublimely in the solo stories. You are probably the single best writer who have ever been in or around the MBL, but until you confront yourself with the other posters, the number one will still be Prometheus.

Sammitch, thank you for your kindly words. You will find that my writing is very variable, and become better whan I have more time at my hand, and worsen rapidly when I have less time. I don't think I have still topped some of my work in TOMB. In any case, the fun, for me, is mainly in the happenings, not in the quality of writings (although I believe that comes mostly from the fact that English is not my language).

On the matter of secondary characters, I am totally for them, even a lot of them, when they are related to one of the main character, for example Leslie and the other girl to Smith, Charley to Grissom, Shirley to Mxy, or even nearly the whole EPS to Walker, when he was Chewy's character.

I am less inclined to accept secondary characters common to everyone. I mean, having secondary characters as full members of the MBL, when we are at twelve or more members, it's redundant. I know they will be a sort of parallelel team, just like T5 said, a Substitute Legion, with mostly comedy reason to be.
Still, I hope they will be around for a definite period of time, do their funny part, and then go.

More or less, I can ignore (in the sense that I am not really forced to write them extensively) the secondary characters of any given poster, but members of the MBL have to be kept always in consideration. I know that in missions they can stay at La Perdita, but when the action is on the island, they must be around. And also, when the true MBL is in peril somewhere, not having the "other" team helping in their own way would not seem credible.

True, they could be in another mission, but still that would be forced. As I said before, I have no problem if they have been brought in for one or more stories, and then they are "separated" from the MBL; if they are to stay around indefinitely, I am not so easy.
After all, we had Tobias and Lance leaving, because the characters were not posting, I think it would be stupid at this point introducing members without posters.

My real gripe, though, is the use we had done of Kit. Rereading the first La Perdita issue of the MBL, it's clear that the Consulting firm was set up as a company where every decision had to be made collectively, with no president or director or leader, and Kit was only a financial advisor.
Instead, we had Kit taking any kind of decision, from engaging new members to chosing people for singular missions. That's not right. Those things should be decided by all members.
I understand that having Priest inside the MBL in a different way would have been impractical, but still I hope one day it will be explained that the MBL was drugged or magically tricked into accepting that. Having Kit employing the new guys without asking anything to the other members it goes to far away from the original intentions of the team.

In my mind, having a "leader" type character like Kit that, while created and belonging to one writer (TTT), can be used by any member to give out missions, jobs, or what have you is a necessary evil. As financial advisor, Kit could just hire people as a "financial advisory" to the members of the team. Thing is, there's too much dissention between our characters to ever get a consensus vote on anything. And that makes it necessary for Kit to take a leadership role.

But that's just me...

The big question is -- is the team going to be able to trust Kit any longer with making those decisions for them after what he's doing right now....?

With the goings-on in the current storyline, this is actually the best time for the team to evaluate their relationship with Kit. As I understand it, he's basically an employee of the members who founded the group, correct?

He's employed by the MBL, every member of it, old or new.

I understand what you mean, Chewy, but still it doesn't made much sense. At this point, it would be better to bring in a new character with a lot of money, that founds the MBL in exchance of a more active leading role. Someone like Miss X of Malvan -X industries(the miss X of this Universe which is NOT Malvana).

Someone that has true connections, resources and leading capabilities. Kit, I am sorry, but has done nothing, so far, to earn anything else than simply friendship from the heroes. In not any way he can be shown to hire people on behalf of the whole team.

The perfect character would obviously be Quantos, but I picture him like a person that doesn't like a leading role.

[ 02-06-2003, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: The Eurostar ]

All this is why I've started to introduce tension between Danny and Kit. It's something I hinted at a few stories ago, and just brought up again. I'm goin' somewhere with this. Probably...

In the context of the story I can see how and why Kit has slowly (or quickly?) slipped out of his role as "financial advisor" to the team to the point he is now, where he's making many of the crucial decisions for the team -- he's older than most, if not all, of the members, and until recently this team has suffered from a lack of leadership. But Kit simply shouldn't have those kind of dictatorial powers over the team, and he needs to come to account for his questionable actions over the past year -- why didn't any of the other members have a choice whether or not to admit any of the newbies since they moved to La Perdita? I could have understood it better if one of the founders had been let in on the secret of Priest and backed Kit, but no -- Kit alone made the decision to let in this guy, even after he tried to kill Danny! That's WAYYYY out of the mandate he's supposed to have with the team. I definitely think some rethinking/clarifying of Kit's role needs to be done at the conclusion of this current story, especially since his own personal situation (the mafia kidnapping of his daughters and their blackmail demands) is putting the team as a whole at a risk.

I recently re-read HR #5: "Hide and Seek" -- and I was impressed by Kristogar Velo's wrapup posts at the end of the story:

quote:

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Kristogar speaks up again. "Why would you do this for us?"

D'goon sighed. "Because, I also have some...non-friends, let's say, in high places. I do this favor for you, you owe me one. In case I need some assistance, you provide it. If you don't, well, I can always just kill you." D'goon smiled at his last remark. "The choice is yours, Velo."

Kristogar shook his head. "No, General. Our group is not a dictatorship. Give us time to discuss."

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Unfortunately, it seems in our haste to write we haven't given much, if any, time to democracy in our group. That's something that needs to be changed. I really like the current story's method of assigning team leaders for each mission -- that's something I've been pushing for since way back. Theoretically, every member should have his or her chance to lead a mission based on his or her experience and capability for that mission... and the team under his or her charge needs to be trusted to follow his or her leadership, especially in a tense situation.

But ultimately, I don't want our MBL (whatever those initials stand for) to become a dictatorship, whether it be Kit, Quantos, Danny, or anyone else at the helm. I do think that all new members should most definitely be in a probation period -- something I mentioned when Drax joined the team, but something that should have been done immediately when Turkish, Grimm, Dirk, Chance, Ameristar, Tayden, and all the rest joined up. It's ludicrous to give complete strangers (for the most part) full membership simply because Kit said so. I also explained that the Hurricane issue in effect put the group through a "baptism of fire," so that the group became somewhat stable, but all new members from now on really should be in a probationary status until they've earned the team's trust.

That's exactly what I was meaning, TTT.

I was not thrilled by leaving the circus for the island, but the set up was dome well, and it made sense for them to try to be not fugitives forever. And their story dictated a very democratic structure for the team. That was the best aspect of the team, and it was easily discarded.

Maybe Kit has some sort of empatic power that made people to accept his decisions without any questioning... He is a meta, too, but doesn't know about his power. Power that has helped him all along in his "career" as a salesman...

... Or maybe the guys on the team just kind of let Kit have the power out of lack of enthusiasm to be in charge. Quite possibly it will be something that they will (or are coming to) regret.

I don't understand all the complaining from you, Euro. Your first post had Kit doing a lot of the things you say he shouldn't be doing. Kit appointed Danny the field leader for the Italian mission and how many people he would take with him. Apparently, Kit was the one who chose to accept the mission (and not the group) since no one else knew anything about it. If you don't feel that should be his role, why did you write it as such?

[ 02-06-2003, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: thedoctor ]

You know, Doctor? You are right.

I don't have really any justification. What I can say is that in the last few months, since the beginning of the Hurricane story, I became less interested in the MBL. I dropped the writings of the resumes, stopped to save every page on my HD... With the advent of Ladnikia (a things that was suggested mainly, even if indirectly, by Grimm) I quickly get back in loving this Universe...
...but somehow I had forgot a lot of it...
... at first it was good, because I felt somehow estranged, just like Euro should have felt after all the months in the EPS...
...but now, that I have reread the old stories, I see I made some mistakes.

Keeping in mind what I have said before, in any way, I think that I have followed what was estabilished lately for Kit, at last he has behaved consistently, if not the estabilished rules.

At this point, I think that we should really get into this thing. I don't have any better expalantion of why everyone has accepted Kit's "dictatorship", but I am ready to accept any expanation. But with the return of Tobias and Kristogar, we have the fresh perspective of two of the "oldies" on this important aspect of the foundation of the team. Let's build something better upon this.

I think things as of late have given us opporitunity to start doing these kinds of examinations of our characters and their situations. One of the main reasons I brought in the "B-Team," as Grimm and I call it, is for the use of Dr. Huerta. Here is a character that will allow us to reveal more about our own characters (maybe Euro's pain over the seperation from his son or addiction to his sword) without having to go too far from the main stories. Hell, I might even just open up a whole thread that is nothing but the Dr.'s sessions with the group.

TTT is also paving a way for a rude awakening for the group. They've slacked off on several things; and now, that will come back to bite them in the ass. Grimm doesn't trust Priest as much as Danny doesn't trust Priest. That makes for some good interaction between characters as much as those that get along. I think everyone is really starting to rev up on their story-telling lately. It's going damn well and I hope it continues. And I have been able to tell from many of your recent posts that you are putting more thought into it as well. Like I told some folks in a chat the other night, you're getting more done in less time lately. I think you've found your voice and have done well in expressing it.

I just want to say, everybody, keep up the good work.

In my return post I tried to imply that Kristogar saw the team's membership and already felt that Kit was overstepping his bounds. Anybody else thinking that the team going to Berlin(Danny, Kristogar, Mick and Tobias) will have a lot to discuss here?

I'm still catching up on the story, so I won't be able to post until I finish. Yesterday I finished Danny's post with Project Omicron and now I'm about to start reading the next post (by the way, awesome post, Dennis).

quote:

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I think things as of late have given us opporitunity to start doing these kinds of examinations of our characters and their situations. One of the main reasons I brought in the "B-Team," as Grimm and I call it, is for the use of Dr. Huerta. Here is a character that will allow us to reveal more about our own characters (maybe Euro's pain over the seperation from his son or addiction to his sword) without having to go too far from the main stories. Hell, I might even just open up a whole thread that is nothing but the Dr.'s sessions with the group.

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I really like that idea, doc. In the main story or in a solo thread. Recently I read an old issue of an X-book by Peter David where all the members have a couple of pages with a shrink, and after reading it I thought every team should do that. I've been wanting to explain some things in the minds of Mick, Shir and Mxy (Mick mainly), but I haven't found a way to do it, because I get diverted by other stuff (Mxy having cow-fun, mainly).

As Philsy can prolly tell you, my latest post in the story has been a long time coming. Hope you enjoy it!