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But where I live it does... why wouldn't apply here? Damn yankees... ![[wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
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Am I to understand that the current MBL headquarters is a fish factory?
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Yes. This is indeed a new low for the MBL... ![[no no no]](graemlins/nono.gif)
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I think putting the place in a fish factory is one of the funny things posted (good job Doc).
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Drax likes it (and no, I'm not writing in the third person)
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A quite humorous move, the fish factory.
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quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
DAN: Like Chewy, you are eternal. Hope all is well. Hope you're getting laid, while we're at it.
Eternal? That won't last long judging by my additions to the new story. One single story post, that went for about four lines. As opposed to the last story, where I gleefully wrote page long story posts where nothing much of any consequence happened.
I live to confuse you people.
As for the last part... for the last two and a half weeks or so, I've had m'self a new girlfriend. Her name is Jordana. Bask in the glory of Danny's hormone-charged emotional roller coaster ride.
As for you comments in the last talk thread... significant other my ass. If anyone paid attention, you'd know that I'm going out of my way to NOT have Danny hook up, despite the ideas of others...
See, Rachel is a device to to show Danny's growing acceptance of his new life and his new world, 'cause, like, Hal said that stuff about him not wanting to form lasting relationships because he didn't feel like he belonged here, so the more he begins to accept interpersonal relationships, the more he's come to accept the new world he's found himself in... and so on and so forth...
Jaysis. My suttlety is lost on you guys.
From now on, metaphor goes out the window, and you're all going to be subjected to four-page long fight scenes. With extra swearing and sex for no reason. Mark Millar style.
Now write or piss off, Pro.
[ 01-19-2003, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Danny ]
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This is my Danny! ![[woooOOOOoooo!]](graemlins/smilewoo.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
This is my Danny!
So Danny is Euro's bitch?
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quote:
Posted by Rypta: Jaysis. My suttlety is lost on you guys.
Yep. Subtlety often wasted here. . . ![[eh... i dunno... ]](graemlins/ehidunno.gif)
quote:
Also Posted by Dan E. Boy From now on, metaphor goes out the window, and you're all going to be subjected to four-page long fight scenes. With extra swearing and sex for no reason. Mark Millar style.
WOO HOO! ![[biiiig grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
quote:
Now write or piss off, Pro.
I just wanted to post that again. ![[nyah hah]](images/icons/tongue.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
The window of Kit’s office is open, so I fly rightly in.
There is Danny inside.
I take the cards from my pocket. “Here’s are the passports, Kit. My friend at the dock has done a good job, I believe.
Kit stops to bite his nails. “Good. I was thinking you wouldn’t be in time”.
“False passports?” wonders Danny. “But that’s it’s illegal!”
“Just like sneaking inside a protected part of a museum” I say.
“Uhm… right” replies Danny.
Kit raises his eyes from the passports. “We have to put the photos and they will be perfect. Your plane is a tourist charter, you will meddle with European tourists returning from their vacations on the island. There is high chance that nobody will check you at the Galileo Galilei Airport in Pisa. And with Chance among you, that probability is a certainty…”
“Ok, I go to put my civvies on” I say. Is civvies a true word? Who knows? Who cares? In a few hours I will finally spoke Italian after more than a year.
Ok, people, this is one of the main things that I think a lot of people here have trouble with. Why do most of you feel that you have to eliminate any kind of conflict within the story? It wouldn't be so bad if the idea of getting the false passports came up in the post and everyone went to get them. But to act like it was happening all along is just elementary style writing. Put some imagination into it instead of solving the problem in one, short post. This is something that has reared it's ugly head more than once in these stories. Can we please try and solve this problem? I don't like bitching like this, but sometimes it seems the only way to get things across. Thank you. Rant over.
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I disagree (surprise, surprise)... at least in this case. We have enough problems with trying to get the story going without getting muddled down in yet another sub-plot which takes up story space. We have enough of a problem with focusing on the main plot of the story as it is -- everyone (and I'm including myself in this, BTW) seems to want to advance our own subplots but don't want to advance the main plot of the story. Details like getting false passports and such are just that -- details. Sometimes they're interesting, but in this case they just muddy the story.
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IMO, these small details are what makes the story. These are not own own subplots or anything of that sort. Details like the passports are part of the main story and interesting points that the characters must deal with.
If we gloss over these points there really is no story. TTT, didn't you say that the characters fight too much without interesting problems or "road blocks?" This is one of the many examples of problems the team might face while going on a mission.
Just my 2 cents.
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Not to mention the problems involved in getting two legally dead men, a boy who doesn't exist yet, and a wanted fugitive into a foreign country. Dealing with things like this is a part of storytelling. If we just forget about them because they "muddy up the story" then what's the use of writing in the first place? I'll use the headquarters as an example, since some people don't seem to care for the current state of it. I remember reading some of the TOMB stories recently where the hq would get destroyed in someone's post, only to magically rebuild itself a few posts later. This happened more than once. Now in issue 10, a very powerful hurricane hit the island devastating it and most of the structures on it. Including the last hq which was a very old building in the path of a very powerful storm. The story dictated that as this was no "special" or "indestructible" building then it would be severely damaged. I left some of it up due to a request from Gooz. And I would rather have the team relocate itself (and I thought the fish factory was damn funny) than have everyone go back to the apartment complex, find out that their apartments were all conveniently on the side of the building that didn't get damaged, and then magically the complex is rebuilt and everything's fine. In short: Things have to have repercussions. If something happens, there has to be an effect. [ 01-19-2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Grimm ]
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quote:
Supposedly posted by Grimm:
In short: Things have to have repercussions. If something happens, there has to be an effect.
Sure. But I think Eurostar handled the situation just fine. Frankly, if Doc disagrees with the way someone else handled the situation he raised in the story, he should've presented a solution in the story himself to solve the problems he raised instead of complaining about it when someone else's post doesn't meet his expectations. There have been more than a few times in the past that I've left the next writer in the thread with something to follow up on and it was followed up in a much less satisfactory way than I'd prefer (as well as times when the next writer exceeded my expectations), but the fact that I left it for someone else to solve essentially forfeits my right to complain about it when someone else solves that problem in their own way.
We all write differently, and each of us has our own strengths and weaknesses -- every one of us. If we don't like that others don't write -- or think -- the same way that we do, then we should probably just stick to writing our own stories, huh?
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quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
In short: Things have to have repercussions. If something happens, there has to be an effect.
Speaking of which, everyone please keep in mind that Danny is still injured after his fight with the vampire. He has a broken arm and ribs. It's not a huge point, just something I want to keep in mind for continuity reasons.
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TTT, didja read the rest of my post or just the last bit? ![[eh?]](images/icons/confused.gif) Something you said, sounds kinda familiar,. . . quote:
Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
We all write differently, and each of us has our own strengths and weaknesses -- every one of us. If we don't like that others don't write -- or think -- the same way that we do, then we should probably just stick to writing our own stories, huh?[/QB]
Yeah, that was it. . .where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah. . .
quote:
Posted by, who was it now? Oh, wait it was ME: As writers we all have our strengths and weaknesses and our own styles. It's what we bring to the table as individuals and use in these stories TOGETHER that makes this fun.
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Well, I'm glad we agree on that much, at least...
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Here was the point I was trying to make. People aren't thinking about the world that we are all creating. It seems just to be a thing that's there. Nothing more. No one is really considering how the world affects their characters. We have two dead guys, a man from the future, and a fugitive who caused a metahuman revolution trying to go to Italy without anyone really thinking about the situation. These characters have automatic speed bumps in their plot progressions that a good many of the writers here are ignoring. They are necessary plot points and not sub plots. Euro has made it clear that the starting of the "Hero Revolution" is a big part of his character, but turns around and ignores it completely when it might hinder his character. You can't turn that stuff on and off like a switch. Grimm and I tried to point that out to everyone so that it will be taken into consideration. Instead, Euro makes a post that totally wipes it out again. He plays down an important aspect of his and several other characters with the way that post was handled. To end the situation in such a childish way disrespects everyone here's efforts.
I don't expect Pulitzer winning material in here. God knows that I can't write at that quality. But I do expect something more than a two-dimensional world. I expect everyone to at least put some effort into it instead of just typeing out a bunch of words and clicking the "Add Reply" button. Up until that post, I've really enjoyed the story. Everyone did a good job. The party scenes were very well done and entertaining (tough you might think that they "muddled" the main story). That post was a quick fix without any thought or work put into it. It shattered any effort that writers who have taken an effort to establish a world with personality in one fell swoop.
If this is the way people are going to address this world and it's characters, I might as well write Chance with chef's hat and unintelligable accent, singing while baking a pie in the oven. Euro will eat spaghetti for every meal and sing opera. Danny will dress like Crocodile Dundee, smash beer cans on his head, and say something about kangaroos every other sentence. Grissom will have jacked up teeth, never bathe, and talk about the Queen Mum all the time.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
And here I thought I was the only one who ever carried on about plausibility!
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WOW! Deja vue! Sorry Doctor if my post disappointed you, I apologize for having ruined your expectations. Frankly, I though your post was more of a jokingly remark to a poor developed point of the plot, than a true opening for a plot advancement. I really didn’t believe you was thinking that the “director” of a team of professional adventurer, along with the tickets didn’t procure some means of false documents to cross the border. Do you think that having a bunch of people running across the lowliest part of the island to find the false passport just minutes before their departing flight would have been “credible”? If that’s the case, sorry again. As for the fact that everyone is ready to go in a foreign land notwithstanding their situation, well, it’s their job. Speaking only for my character, it’s his land, he is away from nearly one year and a half, and he’s dying to return, no matter what it could cost him. About the story, don’t forget that nothing is ruined, after all. If you prefer they reach Italy the hard way, you can have the La Perdita police discover their false identity BEFORE they depart. Or some other mishap that any of you can come up with. By the way, I find somehow exaggerated that it was this episode to upset you, when before we had : 1) A complete stranger appearing inside the headquarter trying to kill a member of the team, that is consequently admitted inside the group with no one objecting. 2) The apex of the battle with the Beast and the vampires, the culminating point of a storyline lasted three months and seven page, resolved in four or five lines without any trace of team interplay. Last thing: I am sure it is due to my still less than basic understanding of the American idiom, but I fail to intend what you mean with “Euro has made it clear that the starting of the "Hero Revolution" is a big part of his character, but turns around and ignores it completely when it might hinder his character”. I have tried to show the evolution of the Cicciotto character trough all his misadventures. He started as a lonely man, fallen from success to a life divided between a sad life (as a junkie) and a public face (as an owner of a little restaurant) that discovers of being father of a child he didn’t know. He crosses the Atlantic to find this child, fails but find true friends, and begins to think to have a mission to help his kinds all over the globe. But when he is near to start his “Revolution” it fails by the hand of other metahumans. He is a disillusioned man, but a new friendship ignite new hope in him. Also, the idea of the revolution is dead in him, after what he experienced, and believe that the example to the world a team of meta like the MBL could give the world is better than any revolution. At this point, he finds Ladnikia, and a new transformation happens in him, and soon it will be evident where it will bring it. I understand all this could be somehow confusing, especially since most key things happened in my solo story… I don’t know how I could help… surely I envy Dirk Bell, with his well developed and original “I got not fucking powers so I must be the smartest of you all” philosophy, but I know I will never been able to give Euro a definite, lasting character. So, fire me again!
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To add to what Eurostar said, I've also shown in my own solo story that Chance, for one, has been forced to deal with his lack of legal status in the world. In that story Dr. Q has provided a false passport and identity for him under the name of Paul Garrett, a British sales representative of Better Foods, Inc (the company that Pete won in a card game which funds the MBL... at least until now ![[mwah hwah haa]](graemlins/devil.gif) ). It wouldn't make sense to me that neither Kit or Dr. Q would have taken all possible problems with travel into consideration and come up with solutions to them before sending the team off to a foreign country. They certainly wouldn't have waited for the day that they had to leave in order to get off their asses and do something about it. As well, the team has left the island in the past (Uruguay), and Dr. Q undoubtedly had made provisions for them then as well.
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quote:
Posted by Euro: So, fire me again!
You're fired!
Euro, TTT: You have made a good point here with Kit and Dr. Q having provisions for the team to travel, but I believe the doctor's main point was that it did not seem to be being dealt with in the story.
Sammitch: Interesting sequential posts here, especially the followup post with Montag. Intriguing.
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Exaclty, Grimm. If it had been dealt with, why had it not been addressed? Unless you write Kit with the intelligence to think of such things, then we cannot assume that he is capable. These "minor" things are glanced over and taken for granted. I know that I didn't have to worry about Dirk because I put things into the main thread that would deal with him. Plus my solo thread established that Dirk traveled exstinsively while a government operative, therefore already giving him the necessary documentation to get in and out of foreign nations. I hadn't seen that from anyone else (and, no, TTT, I haven't had a chance to read your solo thread).
Euro, I'm refering to your status as a fugitive. It's going to take more than a false passport to get him in and out of countries due to that fact. Plus, it's usually a good idea to have the forgers put the pictures on the false passports.
As far as the hiring of Priest thing, yeah, I agree that that's pretty weird and improbable. I don't know how that was justifies.
As for the last story, that was a fuck up from the time Wulf wanted to do a story. I wasn't a fan of the idea from the get go. He came up with some intersting ideas, but I didn't think he'd pull them off. I wasn't too happy with making a single character the center of the story, which is what happened. It makes it hard for the rest of us to know where to go. I was happy with the hurricane idea all by itself. My fears came true when Wulf couldn't participate anymore. The whole thing went down the shitter without anyone knowing how to salvage it.
The guys didn't act as a team, because they aren't a team. It's mostly newbies now who've never worked with each other. They shouldn't work as a team because they don't know how. There isn't enough experience between them. Plus, there hasn't really been a defined leader, though Danny is rising up more and more to the occasion. The teamwork is something that will develop over time.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
By the way, I find somehow exaggerated that it was this episode to upset you, when before we had :
1) A complete stranger appearing inside the headquarter trying to kill a member of the team, that is consequently admitted inside the group with no one objecting.
Let me think, Danny freaked out, Grimm threatened to kill him and others objected. Kit, who was given the role (as you say Euro) of the team's acting "President" met with Priest and talked to him for a while. What ever they are, Kit has reasons and believes that Priest will be helpful to the team. When Priest attacked, he made sure to say that he was only attacking Danny and wasn't there to hurt others. While Danny may "look" like a hero to the team, what if someone had info that showed that Danny is the cause of 10 Billion deaths. This is not the case, but what if Danny turned into a future Hitler like leader.
What if this hero [priest] from the future came back in time to stop Danny from destroying the world? Would he still look like a villain.
What if he had proof of all this that he showed Kit.
What if Kit letting this man join the team stops everyone's deaths?
What if you stopped pointing the finger to other people's work when someone points to yours?
Is Priest's joining the team any less realistic than the team giving a con-man who they knew NOTHING about millions of dollars and their lives to handle? Is it any less realistic than the team happy heartedly letting Chance join, after all no one but Doc Q and Pete even knew him, let alone trusted him. Hell CHANCE was dead. If my dead friend came home to see me not only would I be freaked out, but I would not trust it as the truth. Is it any less realistic than Euro being let back into the team after his death too? I thought he was dead. The team thought that too.
"Oh, hey guys I'm back from the dead and I wanna rejoin."
"Cool, welcome back buddy."
Now on a different matter, Doc was not "making fun" of or putting down Euro's writing. He was using the post to show a problem that has been repeating throughout the stories. It is called the "ONE POST FIXES EVERYTHING PROBLEM." (Yeah, I copyrighted it and everything). Something happens in the story, there is an attack or complication, but no worries, one post solves the mystery. Why do we need to solve eveything in one post?
Also, in Euro's post, Danny looked like a fucking pussy shit. Does Danny really say stuff like [“False passports?” wonders Danny. “But that’s it’s illegal!”] Euro, I am not putting down your writing, because I really do think your English skills are amazing (i tried a second language but I was never able to get that good, let alone write stories in it). But this doesn't look like Danny at all.
As for putting important details in the solo stories, not everyone reads the solo stories so if you don't repeat these things in the main story, to some, THEY NEVER HAPPENED.
*End rant, don't like anything I said I don't care. Starting to think some crap will never change.*
Here is Priest's intro. If you don't like anything from it, state examples and I'll ease your mind. And if ya want we can repost some of your old posts to and disect them. I remember many past posts that were hard to eat.
quote:
Before Danny could finish, a loud rumbling filled the air and a huge figure slammed through the brick wall. The figure stood, a build dark skinned man who matched Grimm’s size. His head was shaved and he had a well-defined beard, graying on its sides. He pulled out a large home made weapon, almost futuristic in nature and pointed it directly towards Danny’s head.
His voice was stern and sure, “Daniel Hearn, you must die!”
Danny stood, “Hal!”
As the unknown man pulled the trigger, Ed’s quick reflexes slammed the gun’s side. An energy pulse blasted through the air, ripping apart a solid wall. The man turned toward Ed and was met with a barrage of blows, each ripping through the air at an uncanny speed.
“My fight is not with you” The man added while he matched Ed’s speed and slammed Ed's leaner body into the wall, before throwing him over the counter top as if it were nothing.
“Try that to me,” Grimm said as he charged toward the unknown attacker. The man matched Grimm’s power as the two titans slammed each other’s bodies into the walls. After each time Grimm hit the man, his punches would than be more powerful.
“You’re absorbing my force...” Grimm was met with a thunderous blow to the face. The stranger held Grimm by his shirt collar.
“My fight is only with Hearn, but I will take out who ever gets in my way.”
“You fight with him, than you fight with all of us!”
Chance’s voice attracted the attention of the stranger.
Ed regrouped with Danny and Mick, who were ready for a fight. Phil was under the table, not sure if he was ready for this type of situation yet. Quantos had also just arrived; he held a shotgun tightly in his hands. Kit Piper and Shirley were next to enter the room.
The fight could be heard for blocks around the complex.
“The stranger let go of Grimm and put his weapon to his side.” He paused thinking for a moment, “Maybe there is another way.”
The team waited outside of Kit’s office. Grimm rubbed his bone jaw, which was saw from the blow. The team was anxious.
“I can’t believe that Kit is meeting with a psycho that just tried to kill me.” Danny was frustrated to say the least.
“I’m sure there is a good reason he attacked you.”
“The fucker was strong.”
“He wrecked the kitchen…”
“You see that weapon?”
“Future like…”
“You were under the table?”
“Ahhh, I don’t remember.”
“He’ll get his.”
Silence erupted as the door to Kit’s office opened. Kit exited as the large man followed.
“Gents, I’ll like you to meet the newest member of MBL Consulting, he goes by the name… Priest.”
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
Grissom will have jacked up teeth, never bathe, and talk about the Queen Mum all the time.
Best characterization of Grissom I've seen yet!
[ 01-20-2003, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: Chewy Walrus ]
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quote:
Posted by Ry-chard: Grimm threatened to kill him
And he still doesn't trust him!
Euro's character, not only is a fugitive, but is also a celebrity, being a former Olympic athlete. Which makes it doubly hard for him to get around without being recognized, I would think. (I have discussed this with Euro before, I think. . .)
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About the things about the passport, I agree with the thing about the photo, it was my mistake. But still I think that to be able to do this line of work, they had to be prepared to travel abroad, so they must have all false identity card and passport, ready from months. I though it was something that had not to be adressed, like it's obvious they have credit cards on Swiss account and the such. My rushed follow up to Doctor was poor, I know, but only because the point he made was, FOR ME, very un-credible.
Gooz, all you say is true and I knew it. What upset me is that all the heroes accept Kit's dictate without objecting. It should have been put to a vote, and the actual posters should have written the answer. In any case, all the explanation for his presence are known only to Kit, if any, and surely not to the members, and that is not in line with the kind of team we wanted to build.
As for Euro been a known face, it is really a problem. But just like when they went to Mandelovia, it's something with I would have dealt with. Plus, he now is bald, with a ponytail and a beard, and also it's 7-8 years since his fall in disgrace. I don't know how much he is still a well recognizable person.
I also apologize for the words I put in Danny's mouth, my only excuse is the rush I had to adress the passport problems.
Now, if you feel that the problem of the passport is really something to adress, please write the thing about the police stopping them before they leave, so they will have to deal with a more difficult way to reach Europe.
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Bitch, bitch, bitch -- it's the one thing we all excel at... ![[yuh huh]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif)
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
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Heh. Wait till Pro comes back. . . Euro has a beard?!
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Pro's bitching is like clockwork -- over the years we've been doing this writing thing I've pretty much come to expect it... ![[...rassamnfrackin...]](graemlins/grumble01.gif) Difference with Pro, though, is that his bitching is usually constructive criticism rather than just outright criticism. I know I'm a lot more willing to listen to someone who can see the strengths in my writing and point them out along with the weaknesses than someone who just points out my faults.
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... 10000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
Bitch, bitch, bitch -- it's the one thing we all excel at...
You've noticed that too, eh?
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Good post Chewy - even ignoring the fact that we've been contributing to each other's stuff since I joined.
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Hmmm even I, who do a lot of embarassing mistakes must agree that there are many plot lines that need to be looked after.
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quote:
Originally posted by thedoctor:
...I might as well write Chance with chef's hat and unintelligable accent, singing while baking a pie in the oven.
![[whaaaa!]](eek01.gif) Can I be Zoot? I really do play the sax!
Chewy can be Dr. Teeth.
Oh, and Gooz and Pro would make a good Statler and Waldorf.
That is all.
[ 01-21-2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Captain Sammitch ]
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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As the saying goes, "The Devil is in the details." These things that some of you may want to just chalk up to being automatically understood are really necessary to make this world seem plausible. Yeah, this is a team of adventures. Does that mean that they are experienced in it and know all the in's and out's? Not necessarily. Maybe Kit is still in the learning process for this kind of work. After all, it's not a common business venture; nor have they been at it for very long.
These little things need to be addressed. I'm not talking about going overboard with it, but some things need to be said to make sure that everyone knows that these things are taken into consideration. Should we write about how Danny lets go of a glass; and because Earth has a larger mass than the glass and, therefore, produces a higher gravitational field, the glass falls to the floor? No, of course not. Should we write about how Euro has a sword and Grimm a big ass battle axe that will cause quite a stir in airport security? Definitely.
Ignoring these things is just bad writing. Face it, you wouldn't want to have to read writing like that in a comic or a novel. We are doing this for fun, true. But, at the same time, we should also be thinking of the other members of the group who must read these posts so that they can follow up. Don't change your writing style to accomodate them, just make it easier for them to understand what's going on and to follow the story. Don't just assume that everyone is going to accept the whole, "It's already been taken care of" gimmick. Sometimes that doesn't work. For instance, Grimm didn't have a fucking face. Nor did any of the team know that he could regenerate it. How the hell was he going to get into a foreign country, even with a false passport?
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by TheTimeTrust:
Pro's bitching is like clockwork -- over the years we've been doing this writing thing I've pretty much come to expect it...
Difference with Pro, though, is that his bitching is usually constructive criticism rather than just outright criticism. I know I'm a lot more willing to listen to someone who can see the strengths in my writing and point them out along with the weaknesses than someone who just points out my faults.
Quite honestly, Trip, I'm not trying to slam you or anything, but, you don't really write enough, imo, for us to grasp any of your strengths. The only thing about your writing I've been able to notice is your tendency to throw stuff out there without explaining it and then disappear again, only to show up in the talk threads complaining that your idea is not being written correctly.
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Doctor, who's saying that Euro will bring the sword with him?
Obviously that's impossible. He will leave it in La Perdita, and then he will find that he can't stay separate from her. But that's my duty to show, I don't think you should be burdened by it.
As for the details, ok, you made your point. What I am saying it's that I didn't think it was so important.
And also that it was not NOW the moment to bring out the fact about passport.
It was something they had delved with when they began advertising their venture. You can't go on the market saying "we are the best at challenging the unknow" if you haven't provided to basic need like false identities.
Kit was new for this kind of work? Sure.
But Kristogar Velo was not. Sonja Ljzavet the same. They both had spy background.
You see, the team existed before Dirk Bell just entered the door without anyone objecting...
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Most of the coolest characters in this universe walked in unannounced and uninvited!
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