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Chewy, first of all, I want to make clear that I am not questioning your character, his motivations and actions. There is no need to say that doubtless Walker is a great character, exceptionally developed, with clear motivations driving him. Walker is a greater character than the Walrus, just like this Tweed is better than the old Tweed, Reynolds than Gummy Worm, Curie than Radius, Vidalia than Hybrid Onion. Real characters for sure.
But still, keeping Eddie captive can't be issued as something that a law enforcing agency could rightfully do. They are baddies. Lovely and well written baddies, but still baddies.
Pro has said that the MBL consider him bad because they don’t know his true motivations.
Well, I think they would consider him bad even knowing that. Walker HATES metahumans. So far, his goal seems (SEEMS) to solve the problems of the potential danger of rampaging metas eradicating them from the planet (at last, the research around the Pathogen, some things he has said in the past seems to go in that direction, I can be not right). If that’s the case, it’s genocide, and that’s, for our society, is bad. It’s evil.
As opposed, Kristogar’s idea of organized metahumans as a police force to held in check the dangerous metas, is acceptable for our society standards. Sure, then there will be a “Who watch the Watchmen” problem, yet democracy should (SHOULD) have the means to solve it.
That’s why I still see the EPS as baddie.
Obviously during the Revolution it could seems that they have been the good boys saving the city from the villains. Yet, as Chewy has shown, in a great way as always, Tweed has not lift a finger to help the good, hiding metas from the FBI. That makes him bad, or at last coward. It makes him also human, I know, but heroes usually are the ones that do something different from normal humans.
As I Christian myself, I think that every human has the choice of being bad or good, and that are his actions to bring him to damnation or salvation. With Euro, I am trying to bring in my (nick)namesake character the passion I was able to put in the old Universe Cap. Nemo.
Until now, with his motivations, ingenuity, boy-scout morality he has caused much more deaths than the whole EPS (having a city like Chicago on his conscience could be seen as the counterpart of I-Man and the antimatter uniboard of the old multiverse), yet I hope he will learn from his mistakes and will put to fruition this hard lesson.
I hope to see comments from everyone, not only from Chewy and Gooz (which are always appreciated, though).
[ 06-15-2002, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: The Eurostar ]
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I just have ended reading the story, so finally some comment about it.
First, about the subplot, I think that’s cool. It shows that most of us have stories to be told, and for now, NO ONE subplot has been dropped, although a few of them have come to fruition yet.
Second, Chewy, yes, the last one was the best post about the Revolution. Frightening, moving, great! I hope that we have not seen the last of the suicide telepathic pilot, it is a great villain, it deserve resurrection. If not, I am sure you will develop Rothman in a similar scary fashion. No need to say that I am dying to read your take over Walker/Cicciotto confrontation about the outcome of the Revolution.
Third, although he posts so scarcely, Kristogar is my favourite poster of the new universe. In his last post, in a breeze he has brought back the sense of mystery and conspiracies that permeated the first few issues and that, for me, was the best aspect of this series. Great, great, great.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
![[no no no]](graemlins/nono.gif) Eh, no, Gooz, sorry, but the Revolutionaries took out TriVex, it was Turner to destroy the MCCA! ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
Very true my good man, very true! ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
But, the Revolutionaries did think that MCCA were evil, which most of them in general were not (I think the ones that tourtured TC and killed his wife were evil/bad, but most of the agents, Turner included, did not want to harm innocents - Mick had a pretty useless power and was left alone for years. And if the few bad agents make the whole MCCA out to be evil, than I guess the old universe's MBL were very evil - Dark Gooz, Evil Carrot, HNB, etc. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif) )
Oh and what the hell is this? -----> ![[woooOOOOoooo!]](graemlins/smilewoo.gif)
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KV, I loved the last addition!!! Awesome post!
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quote:
Originally posted by GoozX:
[QOUTE]
Oh and what the hell is this? ----->
I believe it's Ric Flair
Grimm
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Gooz, I understand what are you meaning, but you see, the five original heroes were under fire from the MCCA for three issues, it's natural they saw them as enemies.
But aside from our own vision over thre whole matter, the premise of this Universe is that metahumans are feared/hated/discriminated by most of the population of the world, so is natural that there are people like Walker, Lochlan etc.
Our goal should be changing their mind, not killing them. 0:-)
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quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
I believe it's Ric Flair
....oh dear lord, he's right.....
WHY CAN'T I ESCAPE IT!!!!!!!!!
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Chewy, you have my deepest respect, you actually love your creation so much that you feel the need to not only discuss it at lenght, but you show passion behind your words.
For that, you get my respect.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
...keeping Eddie captive can't be issued as something that a law enforcing agency could rightfully do. They are baddies. Lovely and well written baddies, but still baddies.
Okay, here's where we get into terminology, which, in this instance, makes all the difference. Euro (the character) considers Eddie to be his "son," when, in reality, Eddie is really his clone. Now, I've been incredibly involved in the human cloning debate for a while. Walker, I suppose, feels that Eddie is not human, as modern science cannot duplicate the human soul. (This is a common anti-cloning arguement here in the States... I'm not sure if they use it in other parts of the world as well.) In this way, Eddie is no different (except by appearance only) than a young chimpanzee. He is able to be taught and studied, but is not human.
quote:
Once again posted by The Eurostar:
Walker HATES metahumans.
This will be dealt with more later.
quote:
Euro, again:
So far, his goal seems (SEEMS) to solve the problems of the potential danger of rampaging metas eradicating them from the planet (at last, the research around the Pathogen, some things he has said in the past seems to go in that direction, I can be not right). If that's the case, it's genocide, and that's, for our society, is bad. It's evil.
What gives you the impression that the Pathogen is a fatal disease? I've not written it as such, and neither has anyone else. It may be fatal to humans, but not (as we've seen) to metas. This can't be considered genocide, but is, in Walker's mind, a large test study of the virus.
quote:
Euro...
...heroes usually are the ones that do something different from normal humans.
Yes, but I never made the claim that the EPS were "heroes" either. That's not the issue.
quote:
...you know the drill...
Second, Chewy, yes, the last one was the best post about the Revolution. Frightening, moving, great!
Thanks, Euro! High praise!
quote:
Originally posted by T5:
Chewy, you have my deepest respect, you actually love your creation so much that you feel the need to not only discuss it at lenght, but you show passion behind your words.
For that, you get my respect.
Thanks, T5. That may be one of the best compliments I've ever received on these boards. Thank you very much.
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It´s great that you have a character that thinks he is doing the right thing, but maybe doesn´t do it the right way.
The grey-zone characters are allways interesting...upcoming events will prove this.
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[/QUOTE]....oh dear lord, he's right..... WHY CAN'T I ESCAPE IT!!!!!!!!! [/QB][/QUOTE] write me, fukstik! Or I spam your email with wrestling quotes! No, seriously, I'm trying to catch up, and I need to know the best way to work on introducing my character without fucking up the main storyline . . . Grimm
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1) Make him appear in the same town as where we have our HQ, Lance or someone could meet him and things can go from there. 2) He could allready be at the mining site, trying to help out when we arrive. 3)He could be working as a cab driver, and he sees Naecken and realises the people he´s driving are metas. 4) Get drunk and write whatever you feel like, you can edit tomorrow ![[devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Ehy Chewy, interesting take on the clonation issues. I have never heard about such a position here in Italy. Clonation is avversed here like any other part of the world, but more on moral basis than doctrinal, even from the Vatican. From what you wrote about Walker in the past, that position seems a little strange (I mean, a (atheist?) scientist believing in evolution shouldn't either believe in soul, or shouldn't believe that a chimp has not a soul compared to a human, being both species very near in the evolution scale) but I am sure that, like Euro, he has changed a lot in these last few months. Anyway, if he sees Eddie as not an human being, he should at last see in Edulcore his legitimate owner, being a clone nothing more than a limb of the source. If Walker is not a kidnapper, at last he is a thief!
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Who is Grimm?
Mordecai or Midnight?
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Boo... I got nothing to post till Gooz starts the party...
If you don't like having too much sub-plots, don't worry about the "anti-Revolutionaries" one... That's gonna explode next issue.
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
If Walker is not a kidnapper, at last he is a thief!
Hey, that was Curie, not Walker! ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif)
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Excellent Gold Baron intro, KV! Very enjoyable read!
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quote:
Originally posted by T5:
1) Make him appear in the same town as where we have our HQ, Lance or someone could meet him and things can go from there.
2) He could allready be at the mining site, trying to help out when we arrive.
3)He could be working as a cab driver, and he sees Naecken and realises the people he´s driving are metas.
4) Get drunk and write whatever you feel like, you can edit tomorrow
You know, I like that last idea. Is it cool to just write a separate intro that is running sort of concurrent to the main one? I had a nice reference bit to the Chicago stuff, where the guys see Eurostar on the tv. . .
I think that's what I will do for the moment. . .
Grimm
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
Who is Grimm?
Mordecai or Midnight?
LOL, neither, though I know both of them.
Grimm is a character that's been in my head for over a decade. . .
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I hope you didn´t mind me pushing the story forward.
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Hope I've not made an etiquette faux pas by posting separately, being a newbie and all, but it seemed easier to start this way.
Don't yet know how I'll get Grimm down to that island or to Uruguay, but I'll work on it.
Pro!! Write me, dammit!
Grimm
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Well, he's in Uruguay, still have some back story to fill in on the "one-shot", though.
Grimm
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Doing a mini-series on the side is one of the best ways to introduce a character...it gives us a chance to see how you want him written as a character...so we don´t make any mistakes (which will happen anyway).
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quote:
Originally posted by The Eurostar:
Who is Grimm?
Mordecai or Midnight?
Neither.
Mordecai joined the military, and is stationed in Alaska. Midnight has moved, and fell out of interest with writing very quickly.
This is Grimm. Grimm's a good friend of mine who has already published his own independent comic. He's a great writer, a good friend, but one sick fuck, so watch out!
Grimm, I've been busy today. I'll probably have a chance to do something with the characters tomorrow. E-mail me your madre's number, and I'll call you.
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Jaysis, G! Why the hell are you clamoring for me to write you? That first post flowed smoothe as silk into the way we write here. Damn good job! Hell, I'll even give you one of these gay little bastards ---->
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PRO FACT #121: All you TOMBers can find Grimm's first "appearance" in the TOMBLverse continuity. During The War of Light and Darkness, he's the M.A.N. agent that reports to Pro the one line that's become the writer's sig...."We've just lost Brazil". Much like The 4th Man appeared in FINALE OF THE X, a littel prelude to Grimm wanting to join us in those stories (unfortunately, we retconned into this universe before he had the chance).
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quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
PRO FACT #121:
All you TOMBers can find Grimm's first "appearance" in the TOMBLverse continuity. During The War of Light and Darkness, he's the M.A.N. agent that reports to Pro the one line that's become the writer's sig...."We've just lost Brazil".
Heh.
Was wondering why that line sounded eerily familiar...
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Grimm, very good stuff. I've only got a chance to skim it, but I'll read it more in depth and with greater concentration when I get back from church. At any rate, I think you'll fit right in here... Welcome aboard!
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quote:
Originally posted by T5:
Conversation with an earthworm eh?
Just popped in me head.
Grimm
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quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
Jaysis, G! Why the hell are you clamoring for me to write you?
That first post flowed smoothe as silk into the way we write here.
Damn good job!
Hell, I'll even give you one of these gay little bastards ---->
No, no, no, you goofy bastard. I meant write TO me! I was trying to figure some stuff out, time wise, but I think I worked it out.
Thanks for da props!
I sent ya the number already, but I'll send again.
WWOOOOOOO!!!!!!!TO BE THE MAN, YOU GOTTA BEAT THE MAN!
Grimm
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quote:
Originally posted by Chewy Walrus:
Grimm, very good stuff. I've only got a chance to skim it, but I'll read it more in depth and with greater concentration when I get back from church. At any rate, I think you'll fit right in here...
Welcome aboard!
Thankya, Cap'n! S'good to be here!
Grimm
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quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus: Midnight has moved, and fell out of interest with writing very quickly. [/QB]
Understatement. . .
Grimm
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quote:
Originally posted by Prometheus:
He's a great writer, a good friend, but one sick fuck, so watch out! [/QB]
MWAH-HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
Prepare for the Frankenstein drag queens from planet 13!
MWAH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
Grimm
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quote:
Originally posted by Grimm:
WWOOOOOOO!!!!!!!TO BE THE MAN, YOU GOTTA BEAT THE MAN!
....easy.....easy....my sanctum sanctorium will not be tainted so.....
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Things are about to get really muddy.
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Nice twist there Danny
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Ehy, Chewy, any idea about when you will be ready to post the last installment of the Revolution? I WANT TO WRITE!
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