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quote:
Originally posted by whomod:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave the Wonder Boy:
And he objects to liberal agenda-pushing (which he says has largely replaced any attempt at objective non-partisan reporting) on a variety of liberal cause issues, such as minority image/stereotypes (even when blacks and other minorities commit crimes, while at the same time the media gleefully parades footage of white, wealthy criminals), gay rights, AIDS (hiding the fact that AIDS was and remains primarily a gay/I.V.-drug/prostitute disease in the U.S.), and the homeless (making the homeless look a lot less scary than they truly are, and of course, blaming their largely self-imposed homelessness on the Republicans, and wilfully exaggerating the numbers... up until Clinton took office).
"It's not just that so many journalists are so different from mainstream America. It's that some are downright hostile to what many Americans hold sacred."
Happy World AIDS Day to you too.
Yep. I began to recognise Dave as a bigot when he judged homosexuals as spurned by God, even if they believed Christ died for their sins, evidenced by God's sentence of AIDS: my dislike consolidated when he judged Islam as inherently inferior to Christianity.
Irrespective of whether you're left wing or right wing, tolerance is a hallmark of a member of a civilised and free society. Dave does not tolerate: he attacks.
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So why is it less acceptable for left leaning people to dislike the chimp than it is for the right to spend Clinton's whole presidency whining about him and making personal attacks?
If someone can explain that, it might be possible to take this thread as anything other than mardarsed wailing because there's people working in the America media who don't like the current President.
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"Whomod, that's the single most bitter and slanderous thing you've ever said to me on these boards."
Given that it's written not spoken, it would be "libelous."
A lot of us more liberal types are bitter. We only need look to the White House and our bitterness worsens...
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quote:
Originally posted by D. McDonagh:
So why is it less acceptable for left leaning people to dislike the chimp than it is for the right to spend Clinton's whole presidency whining about him and making personal attacks?
If someone can explain that, it might be possible to take this thread as anything other than mardarsed wailing because there's people working in the America media who don't like the current President.
A rabbi once told me that if the human mind is given enough time, it can find a way to justify anything.
Generally, it seems to be human nature to disregard or justify any wrongdoing that you or people you support have made, and only focus on the wrong "the other guys" make. This isn't limited to politics, although it certainly doesn't exclude it. It's so hard for people these days to admit "gee, I made a mistake," let alone "I was wrong."
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quote:
Originally posted by Darknight613:
quote:
Originally posted by D. McDonagh:
So why is it less acceptable for left leaning people to dislike the chimp than it is for the right to spend Clinton's whole presidency whining about him and making personal attacks?
If someone can explain that, it might be possible to take this thread as anything other than mardarsed wailing because there's people working in the America media who don't like the current President.
A rabbi once told me that if the human mind is given enough time, it can find a way to justify anything.
Generally, it seems to be human nature to disregard or justify any wrongdoing that you or people you support have made, and only focus on the wrong "the other guys" make. This isn't limited to politics, although it certainly doesn't exclude it. It's so hard for people these days to admit "gee, I made a mistake," let alone "I was wrong."
Just to clarify, I didn't mean you specifically, McDonaugh. I meant the royal "you."
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quote:
Originally posted by whomod:
Howard Dean, I don't think has made enough verbal gaffes to fill 3 editions of Deanisms. In fact I don't think even Dan Quayle was that bad.
Don't worry. Dean is working overtime to catch up. ![[wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
On yesterday's "Hardball," Dean was asked by Joseph Nye, dean of Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, what he would do about Iran. Here's what he said:
quote:
[*]The key, I believe, to Iran, is pressure through the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union is supplying much of the equipment that Iran I believe mostly likely is using to set itself along the path of developing nuclear weapons. We need to use that leverage with the Soviet Union, and it may require us buying the equipment the Soviet Union was ultimately going to sell to Iran, to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons.
That's four times Dean mentioned the Soviet Union--a country that hasn't existed for almost 12 years. ![[yuh huh]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif)
Can anyone imagine how the left (and the media) would act if Bush had done that? They'd be going on and on about what an "idiot" he was, how this proved he had no ability to handle foreign policy, etc.
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quote:
Just to clarify, I didn't mean you specifically, McDonaugh. I meant the royal "you."
Fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
Yep. I began to recognise Dave as a bigot when he judged homosexuals as spurned by God, even if they believed Christ died for their sins, evidenced by God's sentence of AIDS: my dislike consolidated when he judged Islam as inherently inferior to Christianity.
Irrespective of whether you're left wing or right wing, tolerance is a hallmark of a member of a civilised and free society. Dave does not tolerate: he attacks.
I attack ?!?
One of us is slapping labels on the other, Dave, and it's not me who's doing the labelling (i.e. the attacking).
Opinions vary, Dave. You apparently are not intellectual and "civilized" enough to realize that.
The mark of ignorance is when you have to put labels on people who don't agree with you, and then dare to call yourself "tolerant".
You also have a slanderous tendency to paraphrase me and put words in my mouth, to make me appear to be the hatemonger you would like me to be.
I NEVER said about homosexuals what you allege I said. God loves and wants the best for every single person, if each would obey the laws He established for our own good.
But He does say there are certain things we shouldn't do, including murder, false idols, stealing, and adultery. Homosexuality is ONE form of adultery.
And as I've said repeatedly, and you then slanderously paraphrase to dodge the point and label me a hatemonger: God offers forgivenes and salvation to anyone who asks forgiveness, turns away from disobedience, and follows the teachings of Christ. INCLUDING HOMOSEXUALS.
I don't know what pathological need compels you to twist what I say and label me in one of your box categories.
And whether you like it or not, Islam is and has always been more violent and oppressive than Christianity. Beating of women. "Honor killing". Female circumcision. Killing of those who turn from Islam. Brutal repression of other religions. Suicide bombings.
Muslim Imams preach killing in the name of Allah.
Christian clergy do not. And neither do Christians.
Even in the middle ages, as I documented, it was Islamic invasion of Europe that initiated a Christian defensive response, that emboldened Christians to take back the "Holy Land" of Israel.
And whether you like it or not, AIDS is spread overwhelmingly through homosexuality, prostitution, and I.V. drug use. That doesn't mean I think these people don't deserve treatment, but hatemongers like yourself like to just blame everything on the Republicans. If people are hell-bent on having illicit sex, prostitution, and using I.V. drugs, then no amount of benevolent government spending will fix it, despite what misguided liberals like yourself want to believe.
I NEVER called AIDS "God's judgement", another phrase you've slanderously paraphrased me to say.
However, I do think that many AIDS/HIV victims are suffering as a result of their own actions, from a disease they themselves could have prevented.
I'll save my sympathies for the wife or girfriend who gets AIDS from their bisexual or prostitute-using, or I.V. drug-using husband/boyfriend.
Or the hemophiliac who gets it from a transfusion.
Or the child born with AIDS because his mother was addicted to crack, and whoring herself to feed her habit.
I have little sympathy for the gay man who has back-alley sex with countless partners, and then says it's Ronald Reagan's or George Bush's fault he has AIDS.
Give me a break.
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Dave TWB said: "I NEVER called AIDS "God's judgement", another phrase you've slanderously paraphrased"
Geez, man, can't you get ONE thing right...it's not slanderously, it's "libelously." This forum is a written one, not a spoken one.
Criminey, you should at least get that one small thing right in all your palaver...
Jim
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Dave TWB said: "I NEVER said about homosexuals what you allege I said. God loves and wants the best for every single person, if each would obey the laws He established for our own good.
But He does say there are certain things we shouldn't do, including murder, false idols, stealing, and adultery. Homosexuality is ONE form of adultery."
Yeah, cause you right wingers won't let gays marry.
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![[nyah hah]](images/icons/tongue.gif) :lol:
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I would respond in kind to your obnoxiousness, Jim, but then I'd just be accused of being "uncivil".
Never mind that you're just posting pure antagonism with no facts.
Regarding marriage, I have already said, ENDLESSLY ( but falling on deaf liberal ears ) that I support civil "gay union", which allows gay benefits and a secular equivalent of Christian marriage. But I think to have a Christian gay marriage is an oxymoron, and to quote the Bible, "an abomination" and blasphemy against God (see Exodus, and Leviticus).
Some verses you can check at your leisure that affirm this:
Genesis 13: verse 13
Genesis, chapters 18 and 19 (Sodom and Gommorah)
Leviticus 7: verse 21, 18:verse 22, 20: verse 13
Romans 1: verses 18-32
1 Corinthians 5: verses 9-11
1 Corinthians 6: verses 9-11
2 Peter 2: verses 1-22
Jude , verses 5-10
The Bible is crystal clear on homosexuality. I already printed out many of these in the Canada allows same-sex marriage" topic:
http://www.rkmbs.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=201555&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
I think I began posting them at the top of page 5 of the topic.
And printed them repeatedly. Again, to eyes and ears of deaf and blind liberals.
Gay marriage in a secular setting is fine, but gay marriage in a Christian setting violates the Bible, and Bible-believing Christians' rights.
And the rights of God.
I can accept a secular standard of gay marriage for those who don't share my Biblical beliefs in a democratic society.
But so-called Christian "gay marriage" stomps on my rights, and millions of others who believe in following the Christian manual, and that God's commands haven't suddenly become obsolete.
Especially in light of the chaos in human society that has followed rejection of that Biblical standard.
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Jim's just pissed his idol is a child molester.....
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I appreciate that, JQ.
Re-reading my own post above, I wish to acknowledge my overly general use of the word liberal, in the heat of the moment. After a heated exchange with Darknight613 a few weeks ago, I really have intended to be more specific in my responses, and not inadvertantly or carelessly use generalizations.
And while I think my context in making remarks about liberals is clearly at a specific branch of liberals, and I've said that clearly on many occasions across many topics, and the praise I've voiced for more moderate liberals like Joseph Lieberman and Joseph Biden as productively criticizing the Bush administration, as opposed to scorched-earth rhetoric that blindly condemns the President by the likes of Kennedy, Dean, and Gephardt, often condemning Bush for (the primary example) invading Iraq.
When in contradiction to the criticism unfairly aimed at Bush regarding Iraq, Hilary Clinton and many other Democrats were stating the need to invade and eliminate Iraq's threat until March 2003. And as soon as WMD's were not found, Democrats began attacking the President for what they themselves advocated until March 2003.
It's frustrating to see the press, which is statistically overwhelmingly liberal, not give Democrats shouting this rhetoric of "miserable failure" and "another Vietnam" and "Where are the WMD's" the same scrutiny as what the Bush Administration says, where every slightest inconsistency of Bush is page one material.
And you really have to dig to find ANY news-source that reports the inconsistency of Bush's Democrat attackers. Equal accountability would be nice.
Or equal weight given to the vastly under-reported evidence that supports Bush's case for war.
It's frustrating to observe all this, as a Republican, and not get a bit annoyed at the one-sidedness of it.
Particularly when the opposition here on these boards ratchets up the rhetoric and mockery.
But I really am making a renewed effort not to respond in kind. And I realized today that I kind of fell away from that goal I set a few weeks ago, and I'm re-committing not escalating things here.
DtWB's trying !
Clearly, not ALL liberals use hate rhetoric, although I do see it frequently. But clearly not all, or perhaps not even MOST.
I admit to being a bit less sensitive to the potential overheatedness of conservative rhetoric I read, both on these boards, and in conservative news and editorials. Again, precisely because I see it as usually retaliatory, and equal time given to a viciously misrepresented and under-reported perspective.
But what I see as a measured response (of what I see in other conservatives, but more specifically speaking of MY OWN responses), is perhaps not appreciated as "equal time" and equal intensity by Democrats and liberals who read it, and ultimately is just contributing to an ongoing thermonuclear pissing contest.
And when I have a chance to step way from it for a day or two, I can see that harshness in my own comments more clearly LATER, than in the heat of the moment when I've just written those comments.
So in light of that, although I said already to Darknight613 on an earlier topic...
"Partisanship" topic:
http://www.rkmbs.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=217045&page=7&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
( And continued on the
"DO racists have lower I.Q's..."topic:
http://www.rkmbs.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=205705&page=6&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
And then came to a conclusion between us on the first two pages of this topic. )
...that I'd try to be less general when I'm typing long responses, I do tend to shorthand it as "liberal", instead of the "some liberals", or some longer and less sweeping use of the term. But I'm trying to be more conscious of it, and do it less, or ideally, not at all.
Obviously not all liberals agree on every point, and not all conservatives agree on every point. But the loudest and most inflammatory on both sides --whether in Washington, or on the message boards-- tend to be the ones who get the most noticed, and stir the most reaction.
My apologies for my contribution to that escalation. I'll do my best not to in the future, and not to respond in kind (or in escalating harshness) to inflammatory remarks.
It's hard not to respond personally to personal remarks, but hopefully I'll get better at being part of the solution, instead of part of the problem.
( I believe a row of Homers is appropriate. )
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Well, for the record, I think I posted something somewhere (perhaps on the Canada to Allow Same-sex marriage" thread) that also agreed with Dave's opinion. It's just a more realistic and pragmatic solution than to expect some churches to change their mindsets. Plus it answers all the questions of social unfairness and inequality.
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"Jim's just pissed his idol is a child molester....."
That is a libelous remark...wonder if somebody should forward any of these pages to Townshend and his attorneys?
Dave TWB...The Bible is just a book, written by men. Divinely inspired? Well, we know it's just a book. Whether it's the word of God is a matter of faith. I'd prefer to operate on the physical plane when dealing with fellow human beings. There's already been enough evil done in the name of God, religion, etc.
Jim
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Who mentioned Pete? Jim go to your room!
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You know, DaveTWB, I am soooo tempted to get into an ongoing debate with you over all your palaver about "the rights of God" (WTF does that mean anyway), but you know what...you're simply not worth it.
You go on believing the way that you want to, and I'll go on thinking you're wrong and you can go on and think I'm doomed to hell and obnoxious and any other thing you want. You, sir, simply are not worth trying to convince you otherwise.
Bury your head in the Bible and get out your crying towell that the United States isn't a theocracy.
Jim
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"Who mentioned Pete? Jim go to your room!"
You did, by implication.
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Doesn't work Jim you made a several page argument that implication does not mean guilt. Therefore since I did not type Pete Townsend it cannot be implied otherwise. But go ahead and forward this, watsonwil will take my case pro bono!
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Well, thanks for finally agreeing with me! ![[biiiig grin]](images/icons/grin.gif) But I see no need to forward. I doubt that Pete himself would get worked up over what you've had to say. Jim
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....tho im sure if i posted pics of me in kindergarten taking a bath he might get worked up.....
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That line is a classic!
A true work of genius,I cant follow that!
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They're probably better than nude shots of you now...
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no wonder your a Pete Townsend fan!
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don't flatter yourself so...
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at least the reasons for you defense of him came out!
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Not even close. OK, how about you not go down that path, OK? It's revolting.
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Jackson:
They're probably better than nude shots of you now...
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Check out the Independent Media Center. It's a nice little network of America-haters. Their DC "indymedia" site has a wonderful gallery of images, including this depiction of the Time Magazine Person of the Year cover, doctored up nicely with Swastika armbands on U.S. soldiers.  There's also a link through that DC Indymedia site to the " Iraqi Resistace Solidarity Network:For a Principled Stance in the US!!!". That "principled stance" seems to include urging death upon "US imperialism" and the assassination of President Bush. (I wonder if the Secret Service is aware of this?)  And what must be a wonderful holiday message from the proprietors of the site: "Bye, Bye, GI!!! In Iraq you'll surely DIE!!!" and "Bring the Troops Home...IN A BODY BAG!!!"
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Ad Comparing Bush to Hitler Gets HeatMoveOn.org wanted people to submit 30-second ads that were critical of President Bush...one entry ... compared Bush to Adolf Hitler.
The ad in question used a tape recording of the Nazi leader speaking while it showed images of Hitler and German military prowess during World War II. At the end of the ad, a photo of Bush raising his hand to take the oath of office is seen.
"A nation warped by lies. Lies fuel fear. Fear fuels aggression. Invasion. Occupation. What were war crimes in 1945 is foreign policy in 2003," the ad said.
Republican groups and Jewish organizations expressed outrage over the ad, which has been removed from the MoveOn.org Web site. The Republican National Committee called on all nine Democratic candidates to condemn the ads.
RNC Chairman Ed Gillespie called the ad, "the worst and most vile form of political hate speech."
MoveOn.org is "using the memory of that genocide as a political prop," American Jewish Congress President Jack Rosen (search) wrote in the Wall Street Journal on Monday, referring to the Holocaust.
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Quote:
Lies fuel fear. Fear fuels aggression. Invasion. Occupation.
The dark side of the Force are they...
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There was an excellent Face the Nation discussion two Sundays ago that explored partisanship, the rise of Dean by exploiting that partisanship, and a discussion of the www.moveon.org commercial depicting Republicans as Nazis, and the fact that it's a bitter charicature that slanders Bush without a shred of evidence to support the idea that Bush's administration is in any way behaving like Nazis. The panel expanded in a wider discussion about how Republicans and Democrats increasingly go to different sources for their information, the great polarization that has occurred in American culture, and how that is reflected in the present Presidential election campaign. It annoyed me how balanced they tried to be about it, when I think they initially rightly demonstrated by example that the extreme partisan venom is from the Democrat side (but of course, the panel was clearly made up of primarily Democrats, so they could only go so far with the criticism). Bush tried very hard in 2000 to run a clean campaign, steering away from personal attacks on Gore, despite attacks on Bush from the other side. That much I admire Bush for. But the Democrats chose to step it up, particularly after the 2000 election dispute. And despite the crap thrown at Republicans (Howard Dean and other Democrats accusing Bush of knowing in advance of the 9-11-2001 attack is just infuriatingly slanderous and bitter, without a shred of proof) Republicans have largely not responded to the rhetoric. The closest thing to Republicans reciprocating with a similar angry attack is when Democrats' bitter slander of Bush began after 9-11 (Democrats alleging he knew in advance of the attack), and Republicans called Democrats attack of Bush unpatriotic, and working against the safety, integrity, and best interests of the United States. Which I think, far from a partisan Republican attack, is demonstrably true.
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Just as much of the partisan "venom" comes from the Republicans.
FREE SCOTT PETERSON!
"Basically, you've just responded with argumentative opinion to everything I've said. And you respond with speculations, speculating that I'M speculating. "- Wonder Boy
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,958 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,958 Likes: 6 |
Yeah, who can forget all the TV ads the Republicans did portraying Clinton as a Nazi?
Oh, wait, that's right. There werent' any.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,201 Likes: 80
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Fair Play! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,201 Likes: 80 |
Oh what do you do when your party is pretty much in complete control of the country and the greatness that was invisioned hasn't become reallity? Why you bitch & whine about anything remotely resembling the other party. The Dems need not make comparisons between Pres. Bush & Hitler. All they need to do is focus on the issues & remind the people that things were better 4 yrs ago.
Fair play!
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![[whaaaa!]](eek01.gif)
