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Yes, and by the same token, Merryman's rather melodramatic tirade about "liberal porn" still makes the valid point that, for some on the left, at least, they are so used to being against Bush ("Bush MUST GO") on everything that they risk being unable to engage in serious debate or articulate a serious basis for their beliefs.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Yes, and by the same token, Merryman's rather melodramatic tirade about "liberal porn" still makes the valid point that, for some on the left, at least, they are so used to being against Bush ("Bush MUST GO") on everything that they risk being unable to engage in serious debate or articulate a serious basis for their beliefs.
YES! It's finally happened! You've finally conceded that not all liberals behave the same way!
You are but the first convert of many...soon, all those on the RKMBs will renounce blind, sweeping geralizations of liberals and conservatives, rational political debate and discussion will become the norm...and we moderates shall ascend to forge a NEW ORDER! MUAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!
One down, three to go (not including alt IDs)
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-02-02 1:09 AM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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DK, you will note I said "at least" some on the left, leaving open the continuing possiblity that it's every single one of you. 
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the G-man said:
DK, you will note I said "at least" some on the left, leaving open the continuing possiblity that it's every single one of you.
Every single one of us? I'm not a liberal. I'm a moderate.
Just because I stick up for liberals sometimes doesn't make me one.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-02-02 1:24 AM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Yeah, sure... I see that Hillary Clinton is calling herself a "moderate" these days too.
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So because Hillary Clinton claims to be a moderate, that means that other moderates are either incognito liberals or conservatives?
Why is it so hard to accept that there are Americans outside the liberal/conservative categories? Not everybody fits into those extreme labels. I'm liberal about some issues, conservative on others, and dividied on the rest.
Sheesh.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-02-02 1:39 AM.
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"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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I'm sure there are many, many moderates out there, DK.
But based on your posts I just don't think you're one of them.
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Well, I am.
My RKMB posts don't represent the entirety of my political ideals. If you knew me in real life and interacted with me on a more regular basis, you'd get a more complete picture.
If you don't believe me, I guess there's nothing I can do about that.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Perspective comes into play here. G-man might consider Zell Miller a moderate democrat. Anything a hair over is grouped in with the radicals.
Fair play!
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I can't speak for G-man or whatever his perspectives are. I can only speak for myself.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Perspective comes into play here.
To the extent that I think most people want to view themselves as moderate, whether or not they are, in fact, moderate, I would agree.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Perspective comes into play here.
To the extent that I think most people want to view themselves as moderate, whether or not they are, in fact, moderate, I would agree.
How can anyone tell whether a person is a real moderate (or anything else) better than that actual person? How can anybody claim to know what's really inside somebody else's head?
So guys, please don't try and assume that I'm a liberal when I'm really a moderate, or try and assume anything else about me. I know where I stand and what I believe in better than any of you. If you don't believe me, fine. But I'd rather not be accused of hiding my true "alliegence," if you don't mind. Fair enough?
(BTW, the reason I'm making such a big deal out of this is that one of my biggest pet peeves is people making assumptions about me that aren't true and slapping me with labels that don't apply.)
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-02-02 2:23 AM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
How can anyone tell whether a person is a real moderate (or anything else) better than that actual person?
Impartiality.
Quote:
How can anybody claim to know what's really inside somebody else's head?
Past history: previous statements, actions, etc.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Darknight613 said:
How can anyone tell whether a person is a real moderate (or anything else) better than that actual person?
Impartiality.
Okay, but how do you define impartiality?
I don't see impartiality as a refusal to take sides, but rather choosing sides based on rational, carefully though out decisions decisions instead of blind loyalty to a political party or ideaology. This is what I see as one of the appealing traits of being a moderate.
These are some other observations I've had about moderates that appeal to me more than liberal or conservative ideaology.
Moderates seem less likely to simplify certain issues than liberals or conservatives. We see the world in shades of gray rather than in black and white. Liberals or conservatives can be very narrow-minded, refusing to see the world in any way other than their own image of it. Moderates try to see things as they really are.
Moderates seem more willing to compromise, which is sometimes necessary, especially where politics are concerned. Extremists and idealogues often don't like to compromise and will stick to their guns in the name of the cause at the cost of letting problems get worse, rather than compromise for the sake of fixing problems for the good of all. (This is why I'd rather see moderates in power than liberals or conservatives, and why I see liberal-conservative hostility as a danger to this country.)
Also, I've already mentioned that I'm liberal on some issues, conservative on others, and divided on the rest. I'm not pulled in any one direction more than another, so I don't identify myself as being wither liberal or conservative. I'm not at one extreme or another, so that means I'm in the middle. I really don't fit anywhere else.
As for the politicians I support, it has nothing to do with their political party. I support them because of where they stand on issues I consider important, and who I think is right for the job.
So to sum up, impartiality and being a moderate isn't about not being on anybody's side. It's about choosing sides based on rational decisions instead of blind loyalty (or blind hate), and trying to make things work for everybody rather than one particular ideaology. Please note that these are merely my observations and opinions based on personal experiences.
On a separate note: when I stick up for liberals around here, I do so for the following reasons...
First of all, my parents are liberals, as are several of my close friends. When someone makes comments about liberals that I know don't apply to my parents or other liberals I know, I feel it to be my responsibility to step in and say not all liberals apply to whatever criticism is being made. It's about sticking up for family rather than personal politics.
When people make any kind of comments that I know to be inaccurate, unfair, or outright false, I say so with the intent of correcting misapprehensions. I don't feel the need to do that for comments aimed at conservatives, because you guys do an excellent job of doing it yourselves. There's nothing for me to contribute.
The rest of the time, I'm either cautioning people in general against stereotyping, a concept I'm passionately against, or smacking sense into people who I think are making a big deal out of nothing. I do this to everybody.
As for the times I've dismissed the liberal media theory, I've simply seen too much evidence that contradicts that theory. That's all there is to it. I can't judge what I haven't seen.
Hopefully this gives you guys a better understanding of where I'm coming from.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-02-02 3:58 AM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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You misunderstood my point about impartiality.
I wasn't saying that being a moderate required impartiality.
I was saying that you are most likely not impartial when you judge yourself. Since your opinion of yourself is not impartial, it is most likely not the most accurate gauge of whether or not you are actually moderate.
On the other hand, another person, judging your words and actions impartially, may be better able to determine whather or not you are a moderate, meaning that he or she "can tell better than...the actual person."
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This thread would have been funny if Kerry has won.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
rex said:
This thread would have been funny if Kerry has won.
I dunno, going back and reading some of the posts, especially the ones over a year ago about how a resurgent "youth vote" was going to sweep Kerry to victory, I think the thread's pretty funny as is.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
You misunderstood my point about impartiality.
I wasn't saying that being a moderate required impartiality.
Ah, I see. That wasn't really made clear.
Quote:
I was saying that you are most likely not impartial when you judge yourself. Since your opinion of yourself is not impartial, it is most likely not the most accurate gauge of whether or not you are actually moderate.
On the other hand, another person, judging your words and actions impartially, may be better able to determine whather or not you are a moderate, meaning that he or she "can tell better than...the actual person."
You have a point there. I'll admit it's possible. But how do you know other people are indeed reading you accurately or impartially?
I've been victimized by unfair or inaccurate labelling before (I'd rather not get into details), so I resent any attempts to label me as anything I really don't see myself as, and why I don't always consider other people's perceptions of me as accurate. I see such misapprehensions as genuinely harmful to a person. That's why I hate labelling and sweeping generalizations of people.
Does this make sense at all?
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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As much as Jumby saying "Mecca lecca hi, mecca hiney ho!"
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Yes, and by the same token, Merryman's rather melodramatic tirade about "liberal porn" still makes the valid point that, for some on the left, at least, they are so used to being against Bush ("Bush MUST GO") on everything that they risk being unable to engage in serious debate or articulate a serious basis for their beliefs.
This could have just a few words changed and be true about conservatives.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
You misunderstood my point about impartiality.
I wasn't saying that being a moderate required impartiality.
I was saying that you are most likely not impartial when you judge yourself. Since your opinion of yourself is not impartial, it is most likely not the most accurate gauge of whether or not you are actually moderate.
On the other hand, another person, judging your words and actions impartially, may be better able to determine whather or not you are a moderate, meaning that he or she "can tell better than...the actual person."
I don't think that anyone with a political standpoint can look at another person's political standpoint with true impartiality.
Or, to put it another way, I think MEM had a point.
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Yes, and by the same token, Merryman's rather melodramatic tirade about "liberal porn" still makes the valid point that, for some on the left, at least, they are so used to being against Bush ("Bush MUST GO") on everything that they risk being unable to engage in serious debate or articulate a serious basis for their beliefs.
YES! It's finally happened! You've finally conceded that not all liberals behave the same way!
You are but the first convert of many...soon, all those on the RKMBs will renounce blind, sweeping geralizations of liberals and conservatives, rational political debate and discussion will become the norm...and we moderates shall ascend to forge a NEW ORDER! MUAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!
One down, three to go (not including alt IDs)
Who's left? 
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From Star Newspapers - Chicago ^ | Sunday, March 13, 2005 | Michael Bowers, Star columnist...what's the difference between a nitwit liberal and an honest liberal? One remarkable test has arisen in just the past few weeks, as several nations of the Middle East have taken baby steps toward freedom.
Here is the test: What does the subject think about what is happening in the Middle East this spring? If he is as happy about it as I am, and if he's willing to concede that Bush might have got a few things right, then he deserves respect.
On the other hand, if he acknowledges no progress and still loathes Bush — then I am saddened to live in a country that contains such haters.
There's no shortage of the newly honest liberal nowadays. You can hardly open a newspaper or magazine without reading some fervid Bush opponent painfully acknowledging that hey, maybe the president wasn't so wrong about the Middle East after all.
But then there are the irredeemables. They remind me of Nicolae Ceausescu, the last communist dictator of Romania. In December 1989, the rest of the world had realized that communism was finally finished forever. But not Ceausescu. He strove to cling to power, and on Dec. 17, his troops murdered dozens of protesters in the city of Timisoara.
Romanians were furious. They toppled Ceausescu on Dec. 22 and put him and his wife before a secret summary court-martial. On Christmas Day, the couple were shot like dogs.
Now, we have new Ceausescus, who do not realize that repression in the Middle East is going the same way as communism in Europe.
One such Ceausescu is Robert Fisk, a British journalist who has made a living out of hating America and Israel. In Lebanon, he says, "democracy, if it comes, will be drenched in blood."
And then there are the little Ceausescus at DemocraticUnderground.com. I feel a little sheepish about quoting the miserable statements from this miserable Web site; it's almost like going to an insane asylum and writing down the crazy things you hear.
But, as Sun Tzu, the famous ancient Chinese general, wrote, a fundamental rule of war is know your enemy. So let me tell you some of the things they say at DU.
No Exit says: "'Freedom is on the march' in the Middle East, and fascism is on the sneak in the U.S. of A."
BullGooseLoony says: "If anyone tells you that our country is safer because of the war, they're lying."
Stephanie says: "'Liberating Iraq' is just as big a lie as 'finding the WMD' was. Bush Co. is in Iraq to establish a foothold in order to dominate the entire region and its resources. They have no intention of allowing genuine democracies."
Such ugly sentiments are depressing. They make me need a shower. But then I remember a few words from Frank Zappa, and I feel a little better. To paraphrase, he once said: The world isn't getting any smarter. Make stupidity work for you.
Bush is certainly doing so. It's one of the things that have allowed him to change the world. Soon he will be remembered along with FDR and Reagan.
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Interesting statistic: according to poll conducted of members of the "anti-war" movement by Rasmussen Reports, " The single most distinguishing characteristic of the anti-War movement is a dislike of President Bush."
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Interesting statistic: according to poll conducted of members of the "anti-war" movement by Rasmussen Reports, "The single most distinguishing characteristic of the anti-War movement is a dislike of President Bush."
well he did start the war
Bow ties are coool.
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Are you saying they liked him before that?
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the G-man said:
Are you saying they liked him before that?
I've hated him since he became a public figure. I do admire his draft avoidance (smart or rich kids didn't do Vietnam) and probably would have enjoyed partying with him back in the day. I hate to admit it but Republican parties are usually more fun than Demo parties. At least the Country Club R's were. No earnestness with my drugs, sex and alcohol please.
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Molotov cocktail flies at anti-Bush rally in San FranciscoThe uniform of a San Francisco police officer caught fire after a Molotov cocktail was hurled at an anti-Bush protest Wednesday afternoon in downtown San Francisco.
A large crowd made its way from the Civic Center down Market Street, blocking traffic during the afternoon commute. Nine people were arrested for blocking traffic, said San Francisco police Commander David Shinn.
"My partner and I are standing here monitoring the crowd and all of a sudden I heard glass breaking, and the bottle apparently hit right there and gasoline spilled and the next thing I know my shoulder is on fire," police officer Gary Constantine told television station KRON.
Police arrested a person who was found with Molotov cocktails, but were uncertain whether that person was the one who threw the explosive, Shinn said. Constantine was not injured.
Just when it looked like the protest was wrapping up in the evening, some protesters sat down in the middle of a busy intersection to block more traffic. The group refused police requests to disperse so they were arrested at the scene, according to police.
A large sign unfurled in front of City Hall read: "Bush step down. Take your whole program with you."
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the G-man said:
Constantine was not injured.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
too far
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
in San Francisco
Glad to see you made bail, Ray.
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Ray's all talk. (all type?)
If people wanna try a Soviet-bloc-style protest, we could always quell riots the way they did.
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Another example of how the hatred towards Bush is coming from the mainstream of the Democratic party: New York State Comptroller Alan Hevesi is in hot water for making remarks about "putting a bullet between the president's eyes" a day after promising that fellow democrats would “murder” republicans.
According to WNBC, Hevesi, a democrat, was speaking at the Queens College commencement at the time of the remarks, along with U.S. Senator Charles “Chuck” Schumer.
A member of the audience, reports that Hevesi, referring to Schumer, said the Senator would "put a bullet between the President's eyes if he could get away with it.
"There were a fair number of gasps…It slightly seemed that he caught himself and then said, 'Well, he's a really tough guy' or something along those lines -- trying to put the remark in context."
Shortly after Thursday's event, Hevesi issued an apology, claiming that “he was merely trying to convey that Sen. Charles Schumer has strength and courage to stand up to the president.”
Hevesi’s comments came only a day after he was nominated to run for a second term at the state democratic convention Wednesday in Buffalo. In accepting the nomination he said “We’re going to murder the Republicans.”
As Comptroller, Hevesi is the state’s chief fiscal officer, charged with auditing government operations, managing the State's assets and overseeing the fiscal affairs of local governments, including New York City. To the guy's credit, he apologized almost immediately after saying it. However, what does it say when the chief fiscal officer for one of the largest states in the nation can so casually joke about shooting the president? Furthermore, Hevesi admits that he was saying that Schumer would shoot Bush as a way to compliment Schumer. Is the democratic party, at least in New York, so out of the mainstream that they now think wanting to assassinate a president is a GOOD thing?
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
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1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
THAT TIME OF THE MONTH
GERMS IN THE WHITE HOUSE
I know you can't threaten the president, and God knows I would never do that. That would be stupid and crazy and of course, morally wrong, not to mention legally wrong. No one should ever threaten the president. I think it might also be illegal to say that you merely wish him some sort of terrible harm. Some forms of harm, of course, being more illegal to wish than others. You could never, for instance, mention guns or bullets. That would be not only be illegal, it would be wrong and dangerous. And if you did such a foolish thing, I believe 'they' (the men with no expressions on their faces) would come to your house and pay you a visit just to check you out thoroughly and make sure that, even though you wished the president some harm, you wouldnít actually go about causing it yourself. Wishing is fine, doing is not. Especially wishing out loud. And I certainly would never wish a president any sort of harm out loud. It's not in my heart to do such a thing to any human being. I wish all people only the best at all times out loud. Especially the president. Because even though I disagree with his policies, and think he is a dangerous imbecile, he is, after all, the President of all of us, and he is a fellow human being, deserving of respect. (That was hard to say, but I wanted to keep the record straight.) But I want to say that I do enjoy it when other people create mischief. I like to read about mischief. I especially like those terrorist fellows in the Middle East who run around blowing themselves up along with other people; they strike me as interesting guys. And pretty soon they'll graduate from simple explosives to more interesting and sophisticated things like germs and chemicals. That will really be fun. Especially for a guy like me who enjoys chaos and disorder. Do you think the men with no expression on their faces would come to my house if I merely said that it would be fun to read that an Iraqi terrorist (trying to get even for something or other that he imagines might have happened in the 90s) left a big bag of anthrax germs in the White House? You know, just some guy on the White House tour leaving a big bag of germs on a table? Metal detectors have a hard time detecting bags of germs, don't they? Would it be illegal to say that? Would the expressionless men come to my house if I said that? I guess I'll find out. George Carlin
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
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The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Quote:
TheTimeTrust said:
Who cares?!?
This thread is so petty it isn't even funny in a detached amusing way. It just makes me sad to think that anyone would care enough to argue about such a pointless question. All it serves to do is to stir things up for no good reason, and it makes those of you arguing on both sides sound like whiny little boys arguing about whose dad could beat up the other's. For God's sake, act your age.
I couldn't have said it better myself (although I have tried in the past).
And I thought I was the only anti-partisan round here.
I never realized it before, but 613 is a douche.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
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The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Every single one of us? I'm not a liberal. I'm a moderate.
Just because I stick up for liberals sometimes doesn't make me one.
Seriously.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,958 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,958 Likes: 6 |
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