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Some people just can't handle a strong, intelligent, opinionated woman.
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she declared open season on herself when she declared that anyone who doesn't share her views is a "traitor".
Any way you slice it, that is extreme.
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Actually, I believe she accused certain views on the left of being traitorous, not simply that any one who disagreed with her of being a traitor.
What's the matter, whomod? Is the left starting to worry that they won't have a monopoly on simplistic name-calling? Are they starting to worry that they will no longer be able to silence their critics with "political correctness" and accusations of racism, sexism and homophobia?
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quote:
Originally posted by the G-man:
Some people just can't handle a strong, intelligent, opinionated woman.
Yeah...noticed the 'bitch' word is flung her way by some women that qualify for the title as well. To each his own, I suppose.
Frankly, I do like Ann because she is a very intependent woman. Calling people 'idiots' for not agreeing with her...I think secretly everyone thinks that about a person that disagrees with you.
Now, while I mostly agreed with her on her first book, I am not sure I will find this newer book as appealing. I heard she was a little too Pro-McCarthian on this one. I mean, I am not a big fan on that period, and I hope by saying I like Ann does not make it sound like I just eating up everything she says is the Truth.
On the other hand, she documents everything in Slander. Half of that book is footnotes. At least she does her homework.
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I wrote her a long letter, expressing disbelief in her aggressive tendencies. I mean, to boldly make such proclamations on television does two things: it wins you over people like G-Man, and alienates her from people like me. I try to understand where her attitude comes from. I mean, it is one thing to voice your opinion, but to say it with such strong words is a little over-the-top. How would you feel if I said "All conservatives are fascist nazis who should be shot." That is harsh. not all conservatives are like that. In fact, very few are like that. Still, by uttering that, I lose credibility not only with people expressing conservative to moderate views, but also so liberals who would think "Ummm... that is a little harsh." It has little support. Now, like I said, there are those conservatives who do go to extremes. Take Ashcroft. He had expressed racist, homophobix views prior to becoming attorney general, and he is the staunchest supporter of taking away the civil rights of those with Middle Eastern decent still living in captivity. America looks back with shame when it recalls how we locked up Japanese families in camps, both to protect them and ourselves. And of course, there is the Red Scare. If there is something to be paranoid about, conservatives will milk it and make your terrified. Yet, it galls me that they have little interest in the environment, or deteriorating schools and education. It is because conservatives, who tend to run with the Republican party, are backed by large corporations. As such, "We don't need to worry about animals or breathing, we need to worry about our fellow humans, both in America and abroad." It's misplaced paranoia. But back to Ann Coulter. She feels that anyone who questions the system is a traitor. If that is the case, what about our founding fathers. They questioned England. Now we are our own country. yay. But I suspect Coulter would have been a Tory. Change is evil. 
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quote:
Originally posted by Soy un perdedor:
How would you feel if I said "All conservatives are fascist nazis who should be shot."
I'd feel that you were whomod. But seriously...
There's no shortage of liberals, here or elsewhere, that feel completely justified in calling conservatives:
- criminals
nazis
racists
sexists
homophobes
In fact, a Berkeley Professor just released a paper that compared Ronald Reagan to Hitler and more or less argued that conservative thought was a mental disease.
So let's not assume liberal moral high ground here just yet.
quote:
Now, like I said, there are those conservatives who do go to extremes. Take Ashcroft. He had expressed racist, homophobix views prior to becoming attorney general
See what I mean...
quote:
and he is the staunchest supporter of taking away the civil rights of those with Middle Eastern decent still living in captivity. America looks back with shame when it recalls how we locked up Japanese families in camps, both to protect them and ourselves.
Not the same thing. The Japanese who were interned were AMerican citizens not accused of any crime.
The Muslims being detained generally fall in one of two catagories: suspected terrorists and/or illegal aliens.
It is astonishing that so many liberals think we should be releasing illegal aliens back onto the streets. Have they forgotten who perpetrated 9-11?
quote:
And, of course, there is the Red Scare. If there is something to be paranoid about, conservatives will milk it and make your terrified.
History has shown that there were communists who infiltrated U.S. government and businesses including, Soviet spy Alger Hiss. For years, liberals claimed that Hiss was wrongly accused and used this as an example of conservative paranoia. However, with the fall fo the USSR, documents were released from Russia showing that Hiss was, in fact, a Soviet spy.
Furthermore, Hiss is far from the only example.
quote:
Yet, it galls me that they have little interest in the environment, or deteriorating schools and education.
Really? Or is it just that conservatives feel that there are different ways to solve these problems?
Now whose generalizing?
There's also the question of whether liberals aren't being paranoid about the environment.
quote:
It is because conservatives, who tend to run with the Republican party, are backed by large corporations.
Actually, most donors to the Republican party tend to be small individual donors. The Democratic party's donors tend to be rich more often.
quote:
But back to Ann Coulter. She feels that anyone who questions the system is a traitor.
Is that what she said?
I believe it you read her actual words she said that liberals who tend to instinctively side with other nations, or even our enemies, are engaging in acts that are "anti-America" and, therefore, close to treason, if not actual treason.
For example, the cartoon you posted makes snide comment about the true fact that few Americans went to Afghanistan to side with the Taliban. But a great number of them did go to Iraq, as human shields or otherwise, to side with Saddam.
These people, and the anti-war protesters who sided with France, made it more difficult to start and prosecute the war and may have given Saddam time to hide his weapons of mass destruction. It certainly gave him more time to continue his reign of murder and torture (ironic, given liberals' claimed concerns for human rights) and helped endanger our troops by pushing the war's commencement to the hot summer months.
Coulter would be wrong to say that most liberals are intentionally treasonous. However when she says that their knee-jerk anti-Americanism often has the same effect, it is difficult to argue with her.
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The thing with Coulter is she's just promoting the conservative agenda by using patriotism as a means to that end. During Clinton's bombing of Iraq she had no problem (along with Tom Delay) dogging the then President. Patriotism seems to be only in play if it's a Republican to protect. Why should anyone give her words any weight?
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Well, let's discuss what it is to be an American. Does that mean unrequitted devotion to our leaders, even when they do foolish things? Should we stand by our leaders when they send 18 year olds to Vietnam in a war that drags on with no victory in sight, and a blurred sense of why we were there in the first place?
Should we support our leaders when they have affairs, lie in senate hearings, or do unfashionable things like Watergate, or when they have people "silenced?" It was never proven that Gary Condit had anything to do with what's her name's murder, but I think we can assume that in all the representatives/senators, something like this might have happened. The value of one life becomes extraordinarily insignificant if it threatens to blow up a scandal.
Now, G-Man, you have made some of your better points here, but it exposes part of the root of why our views are different. You see, I have lived in Europe, traveled around the continent, lived in India, and traveled... well... everywhere there. One thing I find myself asking people is, "What do you think of the U.S.?"
I do this for the same reasons I engage you in debate. I want to see all of the alternate perspectives before making my final conclusions. Based on what I have seen, the U.S., for all of its power, is very much a hypocracy.
Firm holds or influence in multiple governments around the world display how the country results to intimidation tactics. There was a vote in the U.N. several years ago about sanctions and supervising Iraq. One South American country on the board, I think it was Chile, voted against it. The U.S. representative later told the person "That is going to be the most expensive vote you ever made." You see, the U.S. was on the verge of giving them some 800 million or something for the basic necessities. So the government tries to sway other countries with promises of money or business trade.
That is called bribing. A country in need feels that if their people are to do better, then they must vote with Americans. And then again, there was that ultimatum Bush gave following 9/11. "You are either with us, or against us on terrorism."
But it goes beyond this. The unilateral methods of the government alarm me. If we are to ever have something that relates to ... "world cohesion" we must respect the opinions of other countries and work with them to ultimately achieve the same goals.
That doesn't happen. Clinton's administration was working on getting other countries to pass the Kyoto Treaty, and when it came ful circle, only a few had not signed--stipulating that they would only do so if the U.S. signed it. And we didn't.
Or go back to the beginning of the War with Iraq. It was Powell who suggested to Bush that we go to the U.N. We weren't looking too good, and our relationship with other countries was rapidly deteriorating. But creating a unified force, we would be a... dare I call it... "team" that would be taking action. Bush grew impatient and attacked with the assistance of Britain.
And there are disturbing facts about why Britain helped. Apparently, many of the powers that be within that country were given funds by the U.S. gov't, albeit quietly. Have people on your side take seats in a foreign government. Easiest way to put them under your control, or at least exercise some authority abroad. Remember the guy who became the president of Afghanistan? I went to his brother's restaurant in Baltimore. Good Food. Put in people with American ties.
My point is this. The U.S. is under silent expansion. We do it through influence, money, and economics. Remember how we hated it when the Japanese seemed to be buying everything? That is what the U.S. does abroad. People who are loyal to their own nations don't care for potential outside influence. However, it seems rather obvious to me that the U.S. does not give a damn about what anyone thinks.
So, when Germans and the French speak out, saying that this is a foolish thing, then I happen to agree with them. I remember lessons of invading a country and taking over occupation. Seems our leaders do not. So I constantly question every action they make, whether it is by a republican, democrat or what. Because it becomes increasingly obvious that these men are taking action with other things on their mind.
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quote:
Firm holds or influence in multiple governments around the world display how the country results to intimidation tactics. There was a vote in the U.N. several years ago about sanctions and supervising Iraq. One South American country on the board, I think it was Chile, voted against it. The U.S. representative later told the person "That is going to be the most expensive vote you ever made." You see, the U.S. was on the verge of giving them some 800 million or something for the basic necessities. So the government tries to sway other countries with promises of money or business trade.
That is called bribing. A country in need feels that if their people are to do better, then they must vote with Americans. And then again, there was that ultimatum Bush gave following 9/11. "You are either with us, or against us on terrorism."
Or, it's called "contract."
You, as individual, are free to give or not give your money to individuals with whom you agree, and to not give your money to indviduals who do not agree with you, or actively work against your interests. For example, I doubt you'll be spending much hard earned money on Coulter's book.
Why is it any different for the United States? Why shouldn't the United States give aid to allies as opposed to opponents? Should the United States simply throw money blindly at other nations, without regard for those nations' policies and how they impact our own beliefs or perceived interests?
Both Iraq and Kyoto are examples of this. And, in the case of Kyoto, I spend several paragraphs explaining why Kyoto was NOT a good thing. Rather than address that, you simply return to "well, Europe wanted it."
Why do you assume that Europe wanted it for anything other than its potential to devastate the American economy? Why do you assume that Europe's attitudes towards us are uniformly benign or not, at least, motivated by Europe's own economic self-interest?
In fact, your entire post seems based on the misapprehension that getting Europe (with its history of colonialism, regency and continued anti-Semtism) to go along with us is automatically good, and any interest we have is automatically bad if Europe decides that.
Which does seem a little like knee-jerk anti-Americanism.
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quote:
Originally posted by Matter-eater Man:
The thing with Coulter is she's just promoting the conservative agenda by using patriotism as a means to that end. During Clinton's bombing of Iraq she had no problem (along with Tom Delay) dogging the then President. Patriotism seems to be only in play if it's a Republican to protect. Why should anyone give her words any weight?
Because she's hot. ![[worst. icon. ever.]](graemlins/comicguy-icon00.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Soy un perdedor:
The bitch has issues.
I'd bang her.....
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she looks less horse-like than Celine Dion but not much.  
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A few months ago, I saw her book in the store and decided to check it out. I was reading one chapter and felt odd. It was so nasty I had to see if the rest of the book was like that. Randomly flipping to any page, I found a reference to how evil liberals were destroying the world. She does have issues.
And I wouldn't bang her because she's the type of lady who consumes you afterward.
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I have to admit, now that she's forty Ann has hit the wall a bit as far as her looks go.
You should have seen her in college. Man she was a babe. All of us in the Cornell Young Republicans were in love with her.
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Don't worry G-man, there's still Debbie Schlussel.
And Ann is still a heckuva lot better looking than Maureen Dowd, Molly Ivins, or Hillary Clinton.
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quote:
Originally posted by Soy un perdedor:
Well, let's discuss what it is to be an American. Does that mean unrequitted devotion to our leaders, even when they do foolish things? Should we stand by our leaders when they send 18 year olds to Vietnam in a war that drags on with no victory in sight, and a blurred sense of why we were there in the first place?
Happens every war. 18 year olds are sent because they signed up to defend their country. If war breaks out, they're the first ones to get sent, when needed, the draft is initiated and more are sent. I'm sure there were plenty of younger kids fighting the civil war.
If you want to talk about how "18 year olds are sent to war" then look at countries like Iran and Iraq. Military personel hand guns and rifles to kids on the street there by drafting them in the war. Or they'll just draft them into their army other ways. You should be glad this country set the age to 18 because if it didn't have that, then younger teenagers could easily be sent to war.
On a some what related note, I caught a clip on the news tonight as I was channel surfing. The air and water show is going on this weekend (in Chicago) and ther were people there protesting the war. One guy even showed up with a torn pair of pants, fake blood poured over his body, and put a bandage on his head while he stood there holding a sign. I find all the protesters to be idiots. Not one of them is supporting our troops with their actions. They may claim that by protesting the war, their trying to save their lives, but in reality, how many of them know someone fighting in the war? I'll be none of them. It seems to me that the more people support the war because they have a loved one there.
As for the topic on hand, I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Haven't watched much tv this week, if at all.
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so Batwoman would you do Ann?
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quote:
...execute people... to physically intimidate liberals... making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise they will turn into outright traitors. - Ann Coulter
quote:
Originally Posted by 
[whomod], your argument doesn't really pack any weight until you include a random image of some sort.
quote:
Originally posted by Soy un perdedor:
The bitch has issues.
And God Bless us one and all. Especially bless all the compassionate conservatives and family values types out there for I'm sure they do unto others as they would have others do unto them.
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Onward Christian soldiers!
She seems a little.... fucking crazy extreme, doesn't she?
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I posted this earlier, for anyone unfamiliar with
Ann Coulter's views:
Quote:
Dave the Wonder Boy:
.
Here are some great comments from a recent TIME magazine
interview with Ann Coulter, regarding her new book
Treason, about Democrats:
.
Quote:
( From the July 14, 2003 issue of TIME magazine )
.
TIME: So what's the new book about?
.
COULTER: The idea of the book is that liberals have a tendency to
take the position most disadvantageous to their country.
This isn't anything new. They have taken patriotism off
the table as a topic for political debate. And they've
done that by invoking McCarthyism, a myth of their own
creation.
.
Are you prepared for people to freak out when they
realize you're trying to rehabilitate Joseph McCarthy?
.
On the basis of doing my research, I've noticed that
liberals have been hysterical about McCarthy for 50 years
and no one's been arguing back. So now that someone's
arguing back, yes, I'm expecting candlelight vigils.
.
In Treason, you say, "Liberals' principal
contribution to the war on terrorism has been to bill
themselves as a corrective to 'jingoism.' Their real goal
is too appalling to state out loud." Care to state it out
loud?
.
They are rooting against America. I don't think there is
any other way to explain hysterical claims of a civil-
liberties emergency in this country every time John
Ashcroft talks to a Muslim.
No serious person thinks that we are in the middle of a
civil-liberties crisis. We have just seen thousands of
fellow Americans slaughtered by legal immigrants to this
country. And John Ashcroft has detained several hundred
illegal immigrants?
.
Your tone can be a little shrill sometimes.
Don't you think that what we need right now is unity, not
more acrimony?
.
What we need now is to fight the war on terrorism, and
liberals don't want to. I think it's more important long
term that we have two parties, both of which want to
defend the nation.
.
Do you see a way forward for Americans to come together
politically, as a country?
.
Oh, yes. I do. The Democratic Party has got to go away.
It's got to just hang up its stirrups. I really think it
has functionally gone the way of the Whigs, and it's just
a matter of enough Democrats figuring that out.
Can't both parties agree on the defense of America?
I mean, it was not like this in World War II. The
Republicans were not constantly taunting F.D.R., "Well, he
doesn't have Hitler yet! He doesn't have Hitler! Where are
these alleged death camps?"
The country pulled together! Both parties!
.
.
Whereas the Democrats, and liberals worldwide, are more
interested in creating new conspiracy theories, to blame
everything on Bush.
.
I don't agree with her assessment of McCarthyism, but I do
agree with her on Democrats' exploitation of the spectre
of McCarthyism.
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Oscar Wilde once said "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious"
Well, I may not be american, but I heard an american professor once saying
"If a political issue is in the interest of the USA, it has to be in the interest of the world. If it isn´t in the interest of the world, then it does´nt matter, because it is in the interest of the USA"
can´t remember his name though, sucks, I would like to put a name on it!
but I dare to say, in Europe it does seem that the US has this opinion, like that the only voice that matters, is the voice of the USA!
Look at Kyoto, would someone care to explain to me why the USA did not sign this treaty, as it was obviously beneficial for world enviroment, the only world enviroment we got!
Anyone care to explain? because I sure don´t understand the reasons for it!
Oh, and that Ann Coulter woman, never heard of her, but, I´d bang her anytime, she is hot!
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RE: Kyoto. There is a lot of evidence that Kyoto would do little good and a lot of harm.
Even the gloomiest of environmentalists concede it wouldn't shift temperatures by much more than a trifle, even if completely enforced. Furthermore, Kyoto exempted from its strictures the "developing" countries, such as China and India, which are seeing toxic emissions grow at an exponential rate.
It should also be noted that, on current trends, America would be required under the Kyoto accord to reduce CO2 emissions by more than 40% in a decade. Apart from locking half the country's cars in the garage for the next 10 years and instructing Americans to stop breathing, it's hard to see how that could possibly be done--without massive economic damage.
If you weigh the consequences of plunging the United States into an energy crisis (and potential economic collapse) against the unknown consequences of a theory that has yet to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt, then any politician will have to hesitate.
This would explain why, not only did both parties (Democrat and Republican) in the Senate oppose ratification, but why not one country facing any actual obligations under this energy suppression decree has ratified it.
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Yes, that's my understanding of Bush's rejection of the Kyoto agreement: When other nations are willing to sign the Kyoto agreement and restrict their emissions and industries, the U.S. would do the same.
But Bush failed to see the logic of forcing U.S. industries to comply with strict pollution standards that would hurt our economy, while few other nations, if any, were willing to do the same. (I believe T-Dave said somewhere that Australia had signed the Kyoto agreement, but I've never seen that reported in the news.)
From what I've seen, Bush's rejection of Kyoto (as I saw it on BBC) is portrayed outside the U.S. news media as American selfishness and corporate greed. Like Bush's other foreign policy, it's barely defended within the U.S., and I can only imagine how one-sidedly it's trashed outside the U.S.
Although BBC gives me some idea.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
She seems a little.... fucking crazy extreme, doesn't she?
Understatement of the year.
I, for one, can't stand her. And this was from one viewing on TV. A second will most likely cause me to border on misogyny and make an attempt to castrate myself. Then mail the results to our Annie.
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quote:
Originally posted by PJP:
quote:
Originally posted by Matter-eater Man:
The thing with Coulter is she's just promoting the conservative agenda by using patriotism as a means to that end. During Clinton's bombing of Iraq she had no problem (along with Tom Delay) dogging the then President. Patriotism seems to be only in play if it's a Republican to protect. Why should anyone give her words any weight?
Because she's hot.
Granted she is not bad looking but the things that come out of her mouth are so ugly
quote:
Originally posted by the G-man:
I have to admit, now that she's forty Ann has hit the wall a bit as far as her looks go.
Is she really forty though? Her birthday is either 1961 or 63 according to her old Connecticut & newer D.C. drivers license. Just read her chapters in Al Franken's book where he shows how accurate her endnotes are. (they're not)
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,230 Likes: 1
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
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On Kyoto: I'm firmly of the opinion that the rejection of Kyoto was to appease Californian voters and American industry. G-man points out that China and India are let off the hook as developing nations, and this is true. Their argument is that strict pollution controls would stifle their economic development. I don't know that I agree with that, given I suck in polluted air floating south from the properous Guangzhou province every day. Some pollution regulation would go a long way. In any event, the US, as the world's principal polluter, has no excuse of being a developing country. Suffice to say, America's withdrawal has not scuttled the treaty, but only crippled it: to the best of my knowledge it is currently being implemented by Europe and Japan. quote:
No serious person thinks that we are in the middle of a civil-liberties crisis. We have just seen thousands of fellow Americans slaughtered by legal immigrants to this country. And John Ashcroft has detained several hundred illegal immigrants?
Let me finish that sentence for Ann. Without access to legal representation, without access to the justice system, without access for the media or human rights monitors, for indefinite periods of time.
I'd expect that in authoritarian China, where the rule of law is an annoyance and not a priority, but I do not expect this in the US, which purports to hold the moral high ground.
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Joined: May 2003
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quote:
Originally posted by Matter-eater Man:
Is Ann really forty though?
I have to think she's either 40 or 41. I went to college with her, I'm 39, and she was only a year or two ahead of me.
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Joined: May 2003
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
On Kyoto: I'm firmly of the opinion that the rejection of Kyoto was to appease Californian voters and American industry.[/QUOTE}
The Senate rejected Kyoto almost unanimously, meaning that Senators from every state rejected it. Why would, for example, Massachusetts Sen. Ted Kennedy need to appease California voters?
[quote]G-man points out that China and India are let off the hook as developing nations, and this is true. Their argument is that strict pollution controls would stifle their economic development. I don't know that I agree with that, given I suck in polluted air floating south from the properous Guangzhou province every day. Some pollution regulation would go a long way.
Exactly. When nearly everything we own is "made in China," the idea that China is "developing" and should be exempted is ludicrous. The fact that China is exempted is further evidence that this treaty is simply some sort of anti-US rule.
quote:
In any event, the US, as the world's principal polluter, has no excuse of being a developing country.
No, but they have the 'excuses,' or more accurately 'reasons' cited previously: that the treaty would be ineffectual at everything except crippling the US economy and sending millions to the unemployment line.
If, as you say, Europe and Japan are implementing Kyoto then let's wait and observe things for a few years. Let's see if they actually cut emissions and let's see how their economy is effected. Then the United States can make an informed decision.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,609
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Disco Steve:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave:
She seems a little.... fucking crazy extreme, doesn't she?
Understatement of the year.
I, for one, can't stand her. And this was from one viewing on TV. A second will most likely cause me to border on misogyny and make an attempt to castrate myself. Then mail the results to our Annie.
Now when I see her on TV I do other things with my penis.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,609
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
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as does this man 
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
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his pee pee tickles when he sees her!
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Joined: Oct 2000
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betrayal and collapse 5000+ posts
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betrayal and collapse 5000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 53,734 |
...after alot of thought and introspection, i would like to say i would still nail Ann....
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,609
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by britneyspearsatemyshorts:
...after alot of thought and introspection, i would like to say i would still nail Ann....
ditto, using earplugs if needed.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 53,734
Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 53,734 |
...yeah, i mean even if you dont like her political views you can always put something in her mouth to shut her up!
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Joined: May 2003
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some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm? 5000+ posts
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some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm? 5000+ posts
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