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Wonder Boy said:

I've repeatedly agreed with many of the dissenting generals, who were being constructive and not just in bed with the Democrats and playing partisan games.


Any American has the right to question the leaders and critique the war. Every complaint I've seen from Democrats is generally worthy of examination.

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1. Questioning the methods of war is hardly the same as supporting the enemy in a war.



You, and many liberals like you, say nothing in defense of U.S. policy, you only leap eagerly on every setback in Iraq, cynically question every statement from our own government and military, while eagerly accepting verbatim every stated rationalization made by our enemy.


We're now legally bound to support U.S. Policy? There's a difference between America and the U.S. Government, between the Presidency and the President. Questioning Bush is not the same as hating America.

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Democrat leaders like Murtha, Albright, Durbin and Dean provide factless propaganda soundbytes that our enemies eagerly report throughout the Muslim world and use as a recruiting tool.


All politicians use BS soundbytes. Both sides.
Who cares if the terrorists are happy over some disagreements. They could eagerly report Bush screwing up a speech. What difference does it make? Also, I think they use the chaos under Bush in his wars and the hundreds of thousands of muslims who have died as a better recruitment than "they disagree in Washington."

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You eagerly jump on a few isolated incidents as if they were standard U.S. military policy.


There shouldn't be any. Al Sharpton of all people had a good line about this sort of thing when someone defended police brutality as isolated. He said (to paraphrase) "If a woman has 6 kids and ones a serial killer, you don't point to the other kids and say they turned out okay, you figure what went wrong with the bad one. We should focus on the isolated abuses. Show the world we have principles and won't stand for them being violated by our own guys.

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As does our enemy.


Again, so what? Why do you care so much about what terrorists are happy over?

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And yet ignore that the U.S. military prosecutes and punishes these isolated incidents.


As they should. However, all I've seen shows they prosecute the lower ranks. Meanwhile Bush/Rumsfeld have refused to give up the option to torture.

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3. Roosevelt still had to run for reelection and prove himself and his policies. And the people supported him, Bush's numbers are sinking because he's failing not because he's being questioned.



And while Franklin Roosevelt (like George W. Bush) won re-election in 1936, 1940 and 1944, his numbers did go down and he carried less states with each re-election.


First of all, Bush was elected once and appointed once. Secondly, every popular person loses popularity over time. People like new things. Not sure what your point was with that.

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It should also be pointed that Roosevelt didn't have to face the kind of concerted media attacks on his Presidency that Bush did, from the day he was elected.
Which would have lowered Roosevelt's popular opinion standing through relentless trashing of his presidency, as it has G.W. Bush.


the press has changed in general. And I like it. I like that they go for the president with gusto. That means the President has to be more careful.
I think the people deserve to know what their leaders do and say. I think the people deserved to know Roosevelt had polio. I think the people deserved to know about Monica Lewinsky.
You may cry liberal bias. But the fact is Kerry or Gore would get the same scrutiny.

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An Iraq that in 1990 had the third largest military on Earth.


Did they have that rank in 2003?

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An Iraq that previously had nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs.
That used those weapons on Iranian soldiers, and on Iraq's own people.


First of all, we helped them get those things. And secondly, did they have them in 2003?

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An Iraq with a current population of 25 million people, and that murdered an estimated 1 million of its own people, being un-earthed in mass graves now all over Iraq.


This has nothing to do with military power or how wars are handled.

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An Iraqi resistance that is largely not native to Iraq, and is being perpetuated long beyond its natural insurgency life by an international Al Qaida organization.


which, if it had been managed right, would've been stifled. The fact is we have turned Iraq into a terrorist magnet with our failings.

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An Iraqi insurgency that is NOT supported by the overwhelming majority of Iraqi citizens, that relies on terrorism and mafia tactics to intimidate Iraqi citizens who clearly want democracy.


see above point.

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It should also be pointed out that in W W II, the U.S. was helped out greatly by the full military and financial participation of Great Britain, Russia, the Soviet Union, and many other countries with a greater stake in that war.


it should also be pointed out that Germany had already invaded countries, had a strong military and economy.

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In Iraq, the U.S. is rebuilding the country almost completly with its own resources.


So Rumsfeld lied when he said this would only cost like $10 billion and the Iraqi oil would pay for the rest?

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And much of the reconstruction cost is of an Iraqi infrastructure that was allowed to deteriorate for 30 years, far beyond just the war damage.


We've made the country worse. There was an article in the paper last week about how they have a fraction of the water and power they had under Saddam.

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U.S. World War II deaths:
    400,000


U.S. Iraq War deaths to date :
    2,522


And by the way, you're gloating and making the propaganda points of our enemies again.
But the points you make are distorted propaganda, and not truth.

The Iraq war approaches same length of time, but not nearly the same magnitude or casualties.
Not even the same scope and magnitude as Vietnam (58,00 dead) or Korea (56,000 dead).

Your arguments could only be persuasive to the uninformed.


See, that's the problem right there. You use arbitrary numbers to bolster some point and then say because I don't like how the war is managed that I support the terrorists.
Bullshit, I say, Bullshit.
WWII soldiers had more casualties because they had less technology. In fact, with our advanced weapons systems and body armor and all that jazz the numbers should be way lower and things accomplished much quicker.

Bow ties are coool.