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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
I find it a presumptuous bit of arrogance that presumes if someone holds an opinion you don't like, that they must be this and that, and if they only believe what YOU believe, they'd be a fulfilled and intelligent person.
It's an arrogant slap in the face you attach to every one of your posts.
Your arrogant, presumed superiority.



Huh?

I'm afraid you're way off base here. That signature came from my dealings with Pig Iron's alternate ID, Rue De Nocturne. He showed up out of the blue one day and started insulting several people(namely me, Uschi, Jaburg, and a few others) on the off topic/offensive post board, for no apparent reason. When I responded to him, he gave me that little diatribe, which was actually a lot longer than what I posted(the signature space is limited, though, so I had to edit to fit). I was so baffled at how somehow could take what we said on the off topic/offensive post forum so seriously(when the entire point of that forum is to goof off and say anything), I assumed it must be some trollish alternate ID of MrJLA, or someone like that. So, to get back at him, I put his post in my signature, figuring that if I rubbed it in his face enough he'd go away eventually and stop harrassing me, which he did. I kept it because I'm too lazy to change it, just like I'm too lazy to repick my avatar(which I'm assuming was reset during the move).

So, no, it's not my presumed superiority, it's just a simple, harmless, inside joke. I doubt Pig Iron takes offense, though if he does I'll gladly remove it. I think we've all moved on.

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Actually, on second look, this annoys me too.

It assumes, again, insultingly, that I've either misinterpreted or deliberately misrepresented what they've written and said, and adding to the insult, that they'd be pissed off by the context in which I quoted them.

Read their writings !

More presumptuous, insulting arrogance on your part.



What the hell?

Ok, Dave, I've tried really hard to be diplomatic here. I've chosen my words extremely carefully, I've been as unforthcoming as I know how, and I've even backtracked to give you the benefit of the doubt by specifically stating that I don't mean or intend to assume something about you(see the post before my "you stole my signature" joke).

Yet, time and time again, you say I'm insulting you, or implying that you're trying to spin things. It seems that we can't have an intelligent, adult conversation without it somehow turning into a personal attack. I don't know why you're so quick to assume that I'm assuming, but believe me, I try very hard not to do that.

I'm not insulting you. I'm not assuming anything about you other than what you specifically state. I'm not claiming moral superiority here. I'm sorry if you're taking it that way, but I really dont' know what else to say. I'm not going to just agree with everything you say word for word, simply to avoid confrontation and the possiblity that I might offend you. Unless you come right out and say something about me, as you're doing here, I never assume you're implying something, and so I'm rarely, if ever, insulted by the suggestion of an opposing view. I'm not taking what you claim about Islam as something to form an opinion of you on. They're just opinions(just words, really), and this is just a message board. Therefore, I have no reason to belittle you.

To be honest, I like debating with you because you're clearly intelligent, well read, and you don't back down from your stance on an argument. I respect that. As long as it's well stated, I have no problem disagreeing with somebody. It's only when the opinion is unfounded, and ignorant that my tolerance shortens. In that sense, yes, I suppose I do have some small inherent belief of superiority, but I think we all do. You wouldn't accept that the Klu Klux Klan or the Nazis were morally justified, right(I think you've already said that you didn't, otherwise I wouldn't assume)? Neither would I. And why is that? Because the only justification they ever give is something along the lines of "because we're better than the blacks, jews, hispanics and asians", which, by the values of our society is clearly wrong. So, we disregard them.

...anyway, I'm getting way off track here. Back to my statement. All I was trying to say was that there might be another interpretation to what scholars might say in regards to Europe's stance on U.S action. Not that you had misinterpreted them, and certainly not that you were deliberately misrepresenting them. Only that there might be more to it than what you had described.

Why did I feel bringing that up was necessary? Because, in your argument, you didn't say that "one of the reasons why Europe opposes America" or even "the main reason why Europe opposes America", you just listed it as the reason. Do I assume when reading that that you don't consider other reasons? No. You just didn't mention it, so I wanted to. I didn't really understand what was so insulting about that, but I apologize if you took it as an insult. It was certainly not my intention.

By the way, if you'd like me to read some of those writings, I'd certainly give them a look. I looked through my old Time magazines for that article, but it seems that it was after I cancelled my subscription, so I'll have to go to the university library.

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But if you insist, on the smaller issue of what "selfish motivation" Europeans in the streets have for anti-Americanism, it's to scapegoat the U.S. to rationalize the failures they see in their own government, and believe in the superiority of their own system. Everyone wants to believe their culture is the best culture.
But anti-Americanism is less something the European population chooses, it is more something that is fed to them, by their media and government, and activists.



I suppose I can agree with that. I also think there are those who look at how much American culture has invaded other nations, "Americanizing" them(especially third world countries), and resent that. And, of course, I think there are simply those who believe that war is always wrong, and that by invading Iraq, America is just "sinking to their level"(the "two wrongs don't make a right" thinkers).

I, myself, can see where someone might be coming from with some of those viewpoints. While I certainly don't hate America, I do regret the number of people we've assimilated into our culture, at the cost of theirs.

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I was speaking of the European news media, not individuals. It is their job to provide both sides. Editorials or public forums are another issue.



Do you think our media provides both sides? Honest question, here, not a loaded one. I'm not sure we do. Afterall, the media is just a bunch of people, and people have biases and slants like everyone else.

MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.