Actually, as I understand it, the technology is there to support a national ID card. It would be similar to the chips that are implanted in some credit cards. An example of info it would contain: thumb print, blood type, DOB, SS#, criminal record.
The card would be used in conjunction with a scanner that would "read" your thumbprint and compare it to the info on the chip. I'd have to think that the government could implant some type of "signature" in the chip to prevent the cards from being faked.
I think that there will be a large push in Congress to get this done but, ultimately, the cost would be prohibitive.
or, they could just grab a helicopter and swoop over my town while im outside in the park.
then, when i start to panic, because there is a low flying copter heading my way, ill start to dash for the hills!
as i run, one of these gubment agents can hang out the side of the helicopter with a dart-loaded rifle gun, complete with a telescopic lens.
and just when i think im safe "PTOO!!" the sound of a silencer-packed rifle blares, and a dart hits me in the back of the thigh.
i try to mount another escape, but i realize im slowly passing out -- things are blurring!! i see the helicopter land, and several thugs approaching me with nets... my leg is completely escape, but i try to crawl away.
sure enough, finally, i can no longer move, and i fall into a sleep-like trance, while they tag my ear with some sort of tracking device.
Considering how much our civil liberties are going to be eroded if/when they pass the bill giving government agents almost unlimited power to tap phones, I think there are some members of congress that would be willing to fund that project.
I'm not sure what the National ID Card is supposed to accomplish. The men who comandeered those planes entered the country legally. There's lots of people in the U.S. who are not citizens. What does the ID card do unless you totally seal the border?
WASHINGTON -- Oracle still seems to adore the idea of a national ID card.
At a congressional hearing on Friday, a company executive echoed the pro-ID arguments that Oracle CEO Larry Ellison drew fire for popularizing last month.
"By establishing a standard and secure national identifier, we could ensure that any system that chose to use it could effectively share information with other systems that use it," Oracle vice president Tim Hoechst said.
Hoechst told the House Government Reform Committee that even more important than having a national ID card, are the positive "relationships between critical information systems that a standard identifier will enable."
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who also testified, said: "I believe all foreign visitors should be scanned as they enter the country and have their biometric identity recorded on the card."
The Immigration and Naturalization Service already has a voluntary biometric ID system, INSPASS, which is intended to allow its holders to move through border checkpoints quickly. INSPASS has no central database: Fingerprints are stored on smartcards, and fingers and cards are scanned at the border and checked for a match.
But Gingrich said: "I would not institute a national ID card because you do get into civil liberties issues."
Driver's licenses have served as somewhat-standard identification documents, but a national ID card would include at least a few other features: It would likely be tied to a massive database; Americans may be required to carry it at all times; it probably would include biometric information such as fingerprints, DNA data or retinal scans.
After the hearing, the Electronic Privacy Information Center organized a "shred-in" outside the Capitol building where activists destroyed spoof ID cards with handheld shredders.
-----------------------------------------------
Your eyeballs, please: About the only thing Sen. Dianne Feinstein likes more than biometric ID devices are hearings devoted to them.
On Wednesday, the California Democrat used her chairmanship of a key Senate subcommittee to convene a hearing on biometric systems -- but invited only government officials and biometric industry representatives to testify. No critics were permitted to speak.
Nobody has a problem with private firms using biometric identifiers such as a retinal scan or a fingerprint to, say, safeguard sensitive computer labs. But when governments start thinking about embedding biometric information into a national ID card or demanding such information from airline passengers, then it raises privacy issues.
Monte Belger, acting deputy administrator of the FAA, said during Wednesday's hearing that "25 airports are using biometrics, but we would like to extend that to all airports.... There is very little used today of these biometric systems at our nation's airports."
Feinstein has introduced the Visa Entry Reform Act to create a "SmartVisa" card for immigrants, which would include fingerprints, retinal scans or face recognition data.
"If we had biometrics, we could have potentially forestalled the Sept. 11 attacks," Feinstein said.
Michael Kirkpatrick, assistant director in charge of the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Service Division, saw things differently. "There is no sign that biometrics will be a be-all end-all," Kirkpatrick said. "Fingerprints will play a role in identifying someone and enrolling them in the system. To my knowledge, none of the Sept. 11 terrorists were in the FBI's database."
Quote: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." Revelation 13, verses 16 through 18
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor
To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
Quote: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." Revelation 13, verses 16 through 18
An honest question. Do you acctually believe all of this or is this a joke making fun of religious extremists?
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
An honest question. Do you acctually believe all of this or is this a joke making fun of religious extremists?
The day is coming where one will neither be able to buy nor sell, travel, or bank without government proof of ID. Whatever you want to call it "the mark of the beast", "big brother", or "papers", we've arrived at a point where something that was thought to be so fundamentally unAmerican and thus unlikely has just been passed by the House of Representatives with little to no public discourse. Hidden in an Iraq appropriations bill even, all for the fear stoked justification of safety from immigrant terrorists (of note, the 9/11 ones were here LEGALLY).
So no, i'm not mocking Christian beleif. And I'll disagree with you that it is "extremist" christianity that exclusively beleives in the mark of the beast.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor
To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
I'm not sold on that as the exact meaning of the mark of the beast.
The bible speaks of other things being shown on the forehead and the hands. I think this is more along the lines of metaphorical. That those that follow the beast will show themselves by their actions and their thoughts.
And only by following him will you be able to do those things.
I'm not discounting the idea/theory, I'm just saying that I'm not really sold on that being the case.
Bob Burden said:
Pie for the pirates,
wine for the dogs.
yeah. i agree. A literal "mark" (666) would be silly seeing as how I think everyone has heard the stories and at least, seen The Omen.
It's gotta be somewhat metaphorical as you say. But at the same time, it's got to affect currency and your ability to buy sell and hold down a job.
Some more food for thought:
Quote: One of the new provisions of HR 418 would require individuals seeking refuge in the U.S. from repressive or abusive regimes to provide documented proof of their persecution or abuse as well as the abusing government’s motivation.
“Can you imagine a Christian living in the Sudan going to ask the government to provide the U.S. with ‘motivation’ for persecuting Christians?” one aide said. “What do you think would happen to that person?”
Another section of the bill allows the Homeland Security Secretary to waive all federal, state, and local law for the construction of “barriers,” and is viewed by some as in direct opposition to the Constitution.
Primarily, the Secretary would have discretion to suspend environmental, eminent domain and labor laws. The provision is worded, however, in such a way as to not limit construction to the external border of the country and actually includes roads as “barriers.”
Such suspension of labor laws could affect child labor, standards of compensation and safety, any and all compensation for the loss of property, adverse environmental affects and any damages resulting from toxins.
One Democratic aide told RAW STORY that “that moderate Republicans have privately expressed concern over the possible loss of the Latino vote, backlash from unions, and the concern that this in no way strengthens the border.”
The bill lays out the groundwork for a National ID card/driver’s license program and how it is administered. The National ID card provision does not follow the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission and instead turns the DMV worker into an INS worker.
Groups opposing the bill run the gamut of the political spectrum, from the ACLU to Gun Owners of America.
“In considering this bill, the U.S. House will vote on whether to empower the federal government to determine who can get a driver’s license – and under what conditions,” Gun Owners of America said in a statement. “Since you need a driver’s license to purchase a gun from a dealer, this will give [the government] the expanded ability to impose even greater forms of gun control – something which it has long coveted. This will become even more apparent if an anti-gun Democrat like Hillary Clinton wins the presidency in 2008.”
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor
To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
The trouble with this theory is that it's only going to affect people in the US...What about the majority of the world's population? Are they immune to the end times?
I've never been fond of the fear driven dispensationalist school of eschetology. For one the Scriptures clearly teach a soteriology that would negate damnation based on having the wrong credit card or allowing yourself to get a social security card (remember that was the last Mark of the Beast) or a national ID card.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
So apolcalyptic prophecy becomes "extremist" when it runs up against free market capitalism?
again.
Quote: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." Revelation 13, verses 16 through 18
That prophecy is all about economics and capitalism. I'm also reminded about what Jesus said about the rich man and the needle in a camels eye. When the time comes will we worship mammon or will we worship yaweh?
Quote: "If any man worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture...And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever..." (Revelation 14:9,10)
That may seem like pretty stiff punishment for simply accepting a Mark that allows you to buy groceries. However, this prophecy indicates that receiving the "Mark of the Beast" is not merely an economic decision, but also implies acceptance and worship of the Satan-possessed Anti-Christ, and a pledge of allegiance to his anti-God, religious/political regime (no, that is not a contradiction).
Quote: An Information Technology (1) report this week verified plans to study implantable chips as a method of tracking terrorists. After first pulling back from the implantable version of its Digital Angel, ADS foresees a unique use of its product in the wake of terrorist attacks in New York and Washington.
“We've changed out thinking since September 11,” a company spokesman said, “Now there's more of a need to monitor evil activities.”
ADS also claims the Digital Angel has a variety of other uses, such as “providing a tamper-proof means of identification for enhanced e-business security, animal tracking, locating lost or missing individuals, tracking the location of valuable property and monitoring the medical conditions of at-risk patients.”
Due to civil liberty and privacy issues, the ACLU announced opposition to mandatory microchip implantation when applied to humans. The ACLU is certain to be a strange bedfellow of Christians and conservatives concerning this issue.
(well in this regard, the author got it wrong as the conservative right, which were the feircest critics of national ID's, are now the ones trying to legislate it)
Now terrorism has people thinking that everything from face scanning to implantable chips is not only inevitable, but perhaps a good idea.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor
To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
Quote: klinton said: The trouble with this theory is that it's only going to affect people in the US...What about the majority of the world's population? Are they immune to the end times?
Empire. If the dollar and the euro are done away with in favor of a credit based currency, the world will undoubtedly follow. Especially if you can argue that less terrorism and drug smuggling will be a byproduct.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor
To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
Quote: So apolcalyptic prophecy becomes "extremist" when it runs up against free market capitalism?
Um, I'm sorry, did i lose you? It's like youre responding to some invisible guy in the corner. I said nothing of the sort. Apocolyptic INTERPRITATION of prophey becomes extreme when it adops a radical dispensasionalist view point.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
Quote: So apolcalyptic prophecy becomes "extremist" when it runs up against free market capitalism?
Apocolyptic INTERPRITATION of prophey becomes extreme when it adops a radical dispensasionalist view point.
But It's not nearly as fringe as you make it out to be. In fact, those beleifs (the ones attributed to John Nelson Darby), are pretty much mainstream evangelical Christianity today.
Are you saying that they're not and that you don't beleive the whole rapture/Isreal concept?
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor
To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
Alow me to demonstrate why I think radical dispensationalism is coupled with extremins by quoteing some of teh websites you provided.
Quote: Scientists Prove: Divine Author of Genesis! Scientists have discovered "encoded" in the Genesis text -- names, dates and events from the nineteenth century! "The phenomenon cannot be attributed to ANYTHING within the KNOWN PHYSICAL UNIVERSE, human beings included." (Biblical Review, October 1995, p.45) Irrefutable proof the Bible is the words of God!
According to them also the King James Bible is the only true word of God..... I guess God wasn't interested in those who don't speak Englisg (let alone Middle English.)
Quote: Rock Music: The Devil's Advocate Did you know some rock stars claim to really be "preachers" for Satan ? Megadeth sings in "The Conjuring", "I am the devil s advocate! A salesman, if you will..." Was the song "Hotel California" by the Eagles, a reference to the Church of Satan originally a converted hotel located on California Street!
Wasn't it you who decried teh Pope on this, well this is acctually a comon theme in radical dispensationalism.
Quote: Christian Rock: Blessing or Blasphemy? Have Amy Grant, Sandi Patti, Michael W. Smith, DC Talk, Carman, Moritification and the Christian Rock "stars" sold the Lord out? Why do occult symbols keep "popping up" in Christian Rock? Why is it the name of Jesus Christ is not found in much of the Contemporary Christian Music? Who is the god of Christian Contemporary Music?
Anyhoo, i could go on, but I think it's odd that in one thread you're defaming Christians who believe in Creation, but on teh other hand you're willing to take other portions of scripture at their most wooden literal. I really just don't know what to make of you.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
Quote: So apolcalyptic prophecy becomes "extremist" when it runs up against free market capitalism?
Apocolyptic INTERPRITATION of prophey becomes extreme when it adops a radical dispensasionalist view point.
But It's not nearly as fringe as you make it out to be. In fact, those beleifs (the ones attributed to John Nelson Darby), are pretty much mainstream evangelical Christianity today.
Are you saying that they're not and that you don't beleive the whole rapture/Isreal concept?
Oh, I will concede that dispensationalism has gained a strong foothold in teh Curch today, but that doesn't make it any better or consistant doctrine. And to answer your other question as best i can, No, while I remain on teh fence (but leaning away from) the premilinial shool of eschotology, I wholly reject the despensational premilinal view. As i reject teh foundational principles of dispensationalism.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
To be honest, i myself am leaning away from beleiving in the rapture. Which I think is where a lot of Christians trip themselves up. Why be concerned about national ID cards, authoritarian government, and microchips and such if you don't think you'll be around to be affected by it all.
And while I don't understand what you meant about my views on creationsim, I think i'm reading that your'e trying to figure me out by attaching me to some creed or denomination. So i'll just say that I don't subscribe to any particular sect of Christianity and view most of them with suspicion. So I try to just follow my instincts and faith and trust that i'm being led right when I pray nightly for wisdom and guidance.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor
To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
Quote: Why be concerned about national ID cards, authoritarian government, and microchips and such if you don't think you'll be around to be affected by it all.
I think concern for these issues is one thing. just think it's a bit to far to tie it to the devil or whatnot (directly).
Quote: And while I don't understand what you meant about my views on creationsim, I think i'm reading that your'e trying to figure me out by attaching me to some creed or denomination.
No, What I was comenting on was the fact that in some instances you're willing to take Scripture as metaphorical with no litteral meaning and on the other hand take something as vague and metaphorical as apocoliptic literature and try to interpret it in a wooden littereal fasion.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
