RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events (fire)fight political correctness!

almost.

the photo depicts three white firefighters, all grungy from the impossible-days work.

the statue will depict one white, one black, and one hispanic firefighter, all based on professional models, and not firefighters.

some firefighters are really upset over this, calling it "forced-political correction." one protesting firefighter stated that, (paraphrased) "questions of race and ethnicity posed no part in the actual event, they should not be issued here, in the monument errected in honor of the event."

the protestors feel that it was an honor to have the actual photo get as much recognition that it did, honoring REAL firefighters -- not a politically correct masterpiece, with proper setting and lighting, but a real event by real people who are real heroes in real mourning.

opinions?

No, they should leave it be. My mom love's that picture.

it just doesnt make sense to alter something, just because it'd be more correct for all accepted.

the best argument FOR changing the statue is that it gives a better representation of the day, that it shows that the city is made up of a multirace of heroes (etc).

which is a definite strong argument. and almost makes me wanna agree with that side.

but then why no asian firefigher? or a handicapable firefighter? perhaps a woman?

and if its fit to change this, than why not redo the statue that immortalizes the iwo jima flag raising? perhaps throw martin luthor king on mt rushmore, "just because"?

the idea behind the proposed changes are sound, and, it'd appear, certainly mean well, but... i wouldnt think it'd be an adequate tribute to the black and hispanic firefighters with the knowledge that they had to be included in the statue, by law.

that sort of undermines their personal dedication to the job, and themselves as human beings.

on a side note, I agree with the whole equal opporatunity thing, but then there's the, why change the statue from the original picture?

A distortion of true history.

i think im equally (or even more) concerned with the fact that they'd be using professional models as the figures.

"im sorry, sir, you're not tall or handsome enough to be a firefighter statue, so, we hired hans, here"

thats just silly.

if you're going to make the statue based on the picture, then make the statue based on the picture

if you want to make a seperate memorial or tribute, THEN feel free to add racial harmony and signing birds and beautiful people and all that. i really have no problem with that. but if the goal is to make an acurte representation of an existing photograph and/or moment in time... thats exactly what you should do.

Personally, I think such memorials should be minimalist or abstract, and not realistic figurative images to avoid these issues. There was an interesting article about this in the NY Times a few days ago.

Anyway, the question is moot; they've cancelled that version of the statue.

My thinking is that the statue itself isn't a fitting tribute to the whole tragedy. Sure, it's a stiring patriotic image but, there were many people killed who weren't Americans. There were many other heroes that lost lives other than firemen. Where's the tribute for them?

My thinking: Create a statue of a fireman, a policeman and an EMS...running up a flight of stairs that goes to nowhere, helping a victim get out of the building. You can show racial diversity without cries of political correctness, you have a fitting tribute to all the heroes involved, you have a statue honoring all of the fallen without necessarily putting an American spin on it and it would be a least as stiriing as the staue they've made. Kind of a way for one monument to mean all things to all people.

then, in the debate of hero vs hero (i.e; firemen vs. cop vs. nurse, etc), firemen again come out "on top," as the number lost was significantly MUCH higher than any other breakdown.

anywho, for the most part, id say i agree with apollo.

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Originally posted by Apollo:
I'm usually all for showing racial diversity. However, in this case, I think it's a mistake to base this statue on an image that everyone recognizes, but then alter it to appease racial sensibilities. I also find it disingenuous, because it's long been a fact that the NY Fire Department is almost all white.

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true.

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Personally, I think such memorials should be minimalist or abstract, and not realistic figurative images to avoid these issues.

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i mostly agree with this.

if you're going to base the statue on the photograph, do just that -- base the statue on the photograph, uneditted, unaltered. but, if the goal is to get a more unified look, and strive for politicall correctness, go the macy's manequin route, and create figures without faces or distinct features -- ambiguous enough to represent anyone. that way, you could symbolically represent firemen, cop, stock broker, man, woman, white, black, american, german, etc, etc. all in one fell swoop.

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Anyway, the question is moot; they've cancelled that version of the statue.

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is it?

anyone know if this story is online anywhere? id like to check it out (and post it here)

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THE WASHINGTON TIMES
May 11, 2002

FAMILIES OF 11 DEAD ILLEGALS SUE THE U.S.
By Steve Miller

The families of 11 immigrants who died illegally crossing into Arizona from Mexico have filed a $41 million claim against two federal agencies, saying the government's refusal to put water out in the desert contributed to the migrants' deaths.

The action filed against the Department of Interior and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service asks for $3.75 million for each of the deceased, whose bodies were found last year in the Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge between Tucson and Yuma.

Attorneys for survivors of the deceased said that U.S. Border Patrol policies had shut down more populous portions of the Arizona border and forced illegal aliens to enter through more remote areas.

"What these agencies knew — or should have known — is that by doing this, and with a history of deaths in the desert, these people would cross in these dangerous areas," said A. James Clark, one of the two Yuma lawyers filing the claim. "It would have cost the government nothing to put water stations in, as it had done in other locations."

The claim says the agencies rejected a request made shortly before the deaths by the Tucson humanitarian group Humane Borders to place 60-gallon water stations in the refuge, as it has done in other parts of the desert.

"The agency was on notice that death or serious injury would likely occur," the claim states. "The denial of the agency was based upon concern over animal habitat, which outweighed human life. This decision ran contrary to the stated mission objective of the agency, which is to protect human life on its property."

The claim, which must show the existence of injury and ask for damages, is the first step to a lawsuit under federal law. If unanswered within 180 days, the claim can then become a lawsuit.

A spokesman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Albuquerque, N.M., which oversees the refuge, acknowledged that his agency received the request for water stations last year.

"But of those places they requested to place water stations, none of them would have helped the poor people who perished there," said spokesman Tom Bauer. "In fact, the closest proposed water area for a water station was 12 miles and two mountain ranges away from where the migrants were found dead."

He added that the smugglers who were leading illegal immigrants through the more remote areas were "duping" their clients.

Several unmarked watering holes established by the government, supplied by 10,000-gallon tanks, are placed around the refuge, part of an effort to maintain the Sonoran pronghorn antelope, an endangered species.

"It is criminal that these smugglers are taking people on to that range," said Mr. Bauer, who added that 30-foot poles have been erected at some of the water holes on the refuge.

"The water has been out there for several years," Mr. Bauer. "Our idea is to mark where the water holes are as a humane gesture."

Fourteen persons died in May 2001 when smugglers led the immigrants into an area of the refuge known as the "Devil's Path" near the Mexican border.

The refuge is an 860,000-acre expanse with the closest major highway — Interstate 8 — 300 miles north of the border. Cabeza Prieta abuts a military range and offers little shade. Signs warn visitors that ground temperatures in summer can exceed 130 degrees.

In the past three years, the Immigration and Naturalization Service estimates that more than 1,000 migrants have died of various causes trying to cross into the United States.

One of the smugglers for the deceased named in the claim, Jose Lopez-Ramos, received a 16-year sentence for his role in the deaths earlier this year.

Lopez-Ramos was one of three guides working for a smuggling ring that led a group of about 30 illegal immigrants from Sonoita, Mexico, into the United States on May 19.

Each immigrant paid the smugglers $1,400 for the illegal crossing. They were told the trip would take two days and that they would walk at night to avoid detection and the searing desert sun.

The group got lost and ran out of water during the second day, Lopez-Ramos told authorities. One guide and three immigrants turned back and returned to Mexico.

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Batwoman said:
I agree. The closet race played a part in the tragidy that day was when the psychos decided to do this to us. Other than that, they should keep the statue the same as the picture. I tend to get sick and tired of all this polictal correctness crap. There are times when I honestly feel like I'm not sure how some one may take something I say. Will they jump down my troat becuase they don't like the way it sounds becaue it may not be "politically correct"? <p>No, they should leave it be. My mom love's that picture.

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