RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events the good of september 11th

but, here we are, some 5 months later... what is the good that has come from it, on a global, national, local, or even personal level?

my opinions:

1) unity. nationalism. american pride. whatever you wanna call it, we (now) have it in stride. whether its a small american flag sticker on your notebook, or a bigger one on your front lawn, donations to american relief funds, a "kindlier, gentler" attitude to your neighbor, a near-blind faith in our leaders and/or militia... whatever. there's an overwhelming and obvious sense of pride that has come over our country, that many say has not been around in nearly 50 years. that, alone, is amazing.

2) knowledge of our enemy. whether you take the most liberal or conservative view of how we're currently handling our foreign affairs, you can not deny that now, more than ever before, americans have a better understanding of, specifically, the middle east. id wager (and probably succesfully) less than 10% of our country had ever heard of "kabul" in august, 2001 and prior. the same could probably be said of our knowledge of the taliban, or afghanistan's women's rights, or the details on the struggle between sharone and arrofat. the same can no longer be said.

3) pride in emergency services. cops, especially, have always had a bad rep. in some cases, its deserved (and thus perverts other cases). but now, more than ever, there's an appreciation for the job that they, and firemen, and EMS workers (etc) commit to on a daily basis. there's an understanding and respect for their positions, and rightfully so.

4) religion. its recently been stated quite frequently that 9/11 brought about the rebirth of god. church/temple attendances are up, people are again searching for their faith, bibles and other religious book sales are higher than ever, leaders are invoking god's name, there are even people hoping to ammend the school/religion debates. whether you agree or believe with the religion or practices, this, too, seems to be a majorly positive thing.

5) family. with so many losing so much, its so much easier to reflect on how important your friends and family really are. just the knowledge that, on any random day, your friend or brother could go to work and never come back... its frightening beyond belief, and helps us see the immense value our loved ones posses.

1) Unity.... has disipated back into the same all for myself US mentality...duct taping a flag to your car doesnt necessarily make a patriot. While people like you Rob and others are more aware and concerned of your neighbor...I think you fall into a small group and Im betting you guys were nice beforehand but not doing so in the NAME OF UNITY.

2) knowledge of our enemy.... depends on who's knowledge you're speaking of... the government knew it all along...

3) pride.... in emergency services... hey how about a little something for my efforts! Im in that category! All I see is staff cuts in my hospital and most of the others in the surrounding areas!

4) religion.... what disturbs me is the increase in religous book sales...much like Oprah's book club, these so-called self help books do little in the way of assisting. From what Ive seen from most of my patients they seem to help most in emptying your wallet. And lets not get started on the religous likes of Jerry Falwell et al.

5) family...cant say much about this other than the fact I have not seen any difference in family support on my unit with the kids....the only affect Ive seen is one girl who was more depressed because her middle eastern father was losing work because of the predjudice against him.

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Originally posted by Apollo:
I know Afghanistan has a long road ahead of itself, and it's just as likely to fall back into warfare as make any progress, but I'll never forget the images of people shaving off their beards, throwing off burkas, and playing music in the streets the day the Taliban started to fall.

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very true

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Originally posted by THE Franta:
duct taping a flag to your car doesnt necessarily make a patriot.

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but it doesnt hurt! and for those that ARE patriotic, its a constant reminder and uplift to see all those flags on all those other cars, even if the driver of that other car didnt put it up there with much thought.

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While people like you Rob and others are more aware and concerned of your neighbor...I think you fall into a small group

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hey, a little better is still better.

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depends on who's knowledge you're speaking of... the government knew it all along...

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apparently not!!

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pride.... in emergency services... hey how about a little something for my efforts! Im in that category! All I see is staff cuts in my hospital and most of the others in the surrounding areas!

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well, economically and financially, there hasnt been THAT much of an increase (other than NYC's heroes being helped out, with new plans from bloomberg and dubya). i mean, we're still in a recession as a country, so there'll be realistic and unfortunate cuts everywhere...

and, granted, those are a lot more important than a few extra "hey, thanks" comments, but... again, they dont hurt.

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4) religion.... what disturbs me is the increase in religous book sales...much like Oprah's book club, these so-called self help books do little in the way of assisting. From what Ive seen from most of my patients they seem to help most in emptying your wallet. And lets not get started on the religous likes of Jerry Falwell et al.

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man, you're a pessimist.

granted, there are religious fuck heads out there. granted, not all religious books are helpfule. granted, some religion-related aspects are just out for cash, etc, etc, etc.

relgion DOES help most people searching for it in most cases. and no, im not one of them. but yes, they do exist.

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family...cant say much about this other than the fact I have not seen any difference in family support on my unit with the kids....the only affect Ive seen is one girl who was more depressed because her middle eastern father was losing work because of the predjudice against him.

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didnt you and rufie go out of your way to send me those 9-11 comics? weren't those your posts i saw, on my board, natureverse, and the dc boards, looking for me cuz you knew i was near the towers? didnt you send out emails to a few people, just to "check up" on things?

family dudnt havta mean the people with whom y'get yer photo taken at sears.

I mean did we really need to see the Budweiser Kleidsdales bow in front of Ground Zero?

but the good far outweighs the bad in this case. and, again, even in cases of the bud commercial -- as self-aggrandizing as you might see that, there are some people that could be very patriotically touched by it.

and that cant possibly be a bad thing

if someone in idaho, or something, is watching the superbowl, and sees this multimillion dollar commercial focusing on something very touching... mebbe that'll make that guy in idaho happy.

he doesnt have to go out and buy a keg, or even think twice about the company that produced it.

just think good stuff about a bad moment.

hows that bad?

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Originally posted by THE Franta:
Again....if someone needs to see Ronald McDonald wearing a red white and blue ribbon on his jumpsuit in honor of 9/11 to make him realize what really happened....that person really has issues.....
and downing a Bud sure aint gonna help him!

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i aint sayin it is or should be glorifying the product, or the product producers -- or that either should be praised for releasing the ad

...however...

it STILL isnt a bad thing to actually have the commercial aired, if it possibly raises the spirits of someone who watches it.

that doesnt make that viewer cleetus, the slack jawed yokul for enjoying it, and perhaps getting some sorta extra meaning from it, nor does the focus have to necessarily have anything on the company that aired it.

its just something that someone enjoys, because it brought about some emotional, patriotic sentiment.

remember, some company or factory makes all the american flags that were/are purchased.

a few months back, there was a debate over buying a superman action figure as a gift for a firefighter, in which franta was on my side of the fence.

even charities stay in "business" (and it IS a business) because of donations and money.

taking it even further, to a personal level -- that lil flash movie i made (americatriumphant.com), it served no real purpose or anything, and i coulda donated my money or my time or my efforts in some other directions, but...

i made it.

i showed it.

and it was viewed over a million times in just under 2 months.

and i have 25 pages (with nearly 30 emails each) of feedback from people who got a lot out of it, which i add to with newer emails as recently as an hour ago.

granted, im still a shmuck, i still enjoy jenna jameson porn, and i still waste my time with video games and you crazy people. BUT -- some of the happiest, proudest moments of my life came in reading some of the emailed feedback from that silly lil flash movie.

and that, ladies n'gentlemen, cant be bad.

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Originally posted by THE Franta:
And in retrospect I think I need to change my view on the Superman thingee.

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too late!!!

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Budweiser and the like are trying to capitalize on tragedy which really sucks.

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but thats not even necessarily true.

think about it, budweiser spends around 10 million every year during the superbowl for ads (they typically run 6 or 7 or so through out the game).

they didnt have to run a patriotic related commercial, but they chose to.

hey, im certainly not saying they were all pure of heart, shining in golden halos, and thinking only of their fellow man.

however... everyone does what they can.

buddweiser is a frickin alcohol company -- no one expects them to rebuild the towers or start a college fund (a beer college fund?? cool!). they simply did what they do best, make good commercials.

dave letterman came back and did his comedy show. that's what he does. the first night back, he took about 30 minutes to make a tribute to giuliani and the victims, etc. yes, his ratings went sky high -- does that make him a jerk for taking advantage of the situation?

same thing with my movie (and thanks, again, for the comments ... franta's mom!). im still a porn-addict, i still degrade women, and i certainly do stumble into the occasional free dollar, which i guess i easily could have donated. but, i took something that I do well (like being a computer dork) and used that for good. (instead of donating the time and/or money and/or effort it took to produce the movie, doing something else).

a token, however small, is STILL a token.

No questions asked.

The economy may be a mess...but I'm not feeling it. I don't get it. Things have never been better for me.That's not to say I haven't seen a couple dozen horror stories unfold before my eyes the past few months...WTC hit close but lucky me it didn't hit me.

Rents seem to have stabilized and in some cases gone down...and the ever steady inflation that occurs on a daily basis here seems to have subsided.

Still not a worthwhile trade.