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Darknight613 said:
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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
It bothers me that your reaction, and the liberal reaction in general, is to blame Bush first, and irrationally, for ANYTHING that goes wrong.



Actually, if you wanna get nitpicky, read my first post, you'd see my first reaction was to condemn this attack and hope that whoever was behind it was exterminated.

As for flying off the handle at Bush, I've already acknowledged that I was out of line on some of it, and I'm going to say it straight out - it was wrong of me to do so.



I still feel you made a very partisan comment, and are attempting to backpedal and soften it to a context that is less partisan, but I could be wrong about that, that's my opinion.

But in any case, I appreciate that you've apologized for phrasing your comments toward Bush so directly and forcefully at blaming him.
Whatever your intent in writing those comments, that's what you literally said. If you say you didn't mean it partisanly, I'll accept what you've followed up to specify you intended it to say.


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Darknight613 said:
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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
Finally, you can take your "non-partisan" remarks about Bush, and shove them up your ass.

I'm so sick of you voicing your "non-partisan/neutral objectivity" even as you make blatantly partisan remarks.



Look, just because I don't like Bush or many of his policies doesn't mean it's because of partisanship. We don't see eye to eye on many of the issues, I don't like his attitude, and I honestly don't trust the guy. But that doesn't mean I hate Republicans or conservatives or "blame them for all the problems in the world." If you think otherwise, you're wrong. End of story.



You know, looking at my comments, I wondered if I said that too harshly.
But no, I think it was appropriate.

Because there wasn't even a connection to Bush, and yet you made that non-sequitor connection.

All along, with these terror incidents in Iraq, on both civilians and U.S. soldiers, there are estimated to be less than 5,000 involved in fighting U.S. forces (out of a nation of 25 million Iraqis !!) And they've learned the way they can attack American soldiers with the least risk of getting captured or killed is radio-detonated explosives and rocket-propelled grenades (RPG's). One shot, and then run, before caught.

And as Saddam-remnant and Al Qaida forces get thinner, they radio-detonate a bomb somewhere and kill innocent people, to project a fear that they're still around and still a threat.
The U.S. has less than 150,000 troops in Iraq now (a little more than that right now, because troops that have been there a year, and their replacements are all there at once right now, during the turnover of troop replacement).
Which is what, a U.S. force that's a fraction of 1% of the Iraqi population?
U.S. troops can't be everywhere at once, and that isn't Bush's fault.

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Darknight613 said:
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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
And I'm sick to death of you, Darknight613, and liberal assholes like you, who always blame America, and especially the Republicans, first.



Excuse me...I can't speak for anybody else, but I have never "blamed America" for anything. I don't always agree with everything America does, but I have NEVER said (or even thought) that America is "the bad guy." I rarely (if ever) accuse republicans or conservatives in general of anything. My negative views about Bush do not represent my views on all republicans or conservatives. I have a problem with Bush, not the Republican party, and not with conservatives, although I admit that I don't agree with where they stand on a lot of issues. There are some issues agree with liberals about, some I agree with conservatives about, and there are others that I'm still trying to figure out where I stand.

But once again, that's not the same as "bashing conservatives/republicans" or "blaming them for everything." You have a problem with liberals, that's your right. I'm not going to try and tell you you're wrong to do so anymore. But don't try to label me as something I'm not just because I don't like ONE PARTICULAR Republican conservative.



Well, I'll grant you this, Darknight613, you certainly don't rise to the partisan venom level of, say, Whomod or Jim Jackson.

But at the same time, I've seen you make several remarks of a partisan nature attacking Bush. And I don't think you're as non-partisan as you'd like me to believe.
Or perhaps you're more partisan than you yourself realize.

I've seen you consistently take the liberal side, I've never seen you once criticize the Democrats on any specific issue, except to give vague assurances to the rest of us of your "objectivity" by saying:
"well, I criticize the Democrats too..."

But I've never seen you actually criticize liberals and Democrats.
And you said in one topic that I never back up what I say (despite my many posted links) and at the same time said that Whomod is "objective".

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Darknight613 said:
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Dave the Wonder Boy said:
What about Clinton, asshole. What the hell about Clinton ?!?



What ABOUT Clinton? He did his fair share of screwing up (not including his actual screwing). I never agreed with the way he handled the peace process in Israel. You think that just because I slam Bush that I never slammed on Clinton? Or that I haven't slammed Kerry or Dean or some of the other Democratic presidential candidates? I care about the issues, not pathetic political alliegences.



Implying that I have pathetic political allegiences.

Regarding Clinton, I detailed a partial laundry-list of his overwhelming 8 years of negligence that Bush is attempting to clean up. I find it deeply frustrating that you blame Bush circumstantially, without the slightest mention of Clinton's clear negligence.
As I detailed (with Bush's backburnering terrorism in early 2001 to focus on an expensive and questionably effective missile defense shield program) I think Bush also bears some blame.
But since this happened barely 8 months into his presidency, as I said, there wasn't time for Bush to implement anything anyway.

I support a President I didn't vote for (G.W. Bush) in time of war. I question many of Bush's policies, but for the lack of a decent Democrat alternative, I may actually vote for Bush this time.

It just galls me to have you blame bombings in Madrid and Baghdad on Bush's alleged negligence.
If a girl gets raped in Miami, is that Bush's fault too?
( Oh, wait a minute: is Clinton in town ? )

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Darknight613 said:

So, now that that's been cleared up, shall we let this drop and we go our separate ways, or are we going to repeat the pattern of "I say something stupid/thoughtless, you slam me for it, I try to make amends while still trying to defend my position but accidentaly end up digging myself deeper, things get ugly, etc.?"

To be very honest with you, I'm more than happy to just let this end here and now. My schedule is finally starting to fill up, and I don't have the time to spare engaging in a pointles fight that probably won't change anything in the long run except create more bad feelings. I'm sure you have much more important things to do with your time than fight with some brash, reckless kid.

So what say we at least agree to disagree and let this mini-fight die a quick, painless death, and move on to more important things in our lives?



I'm not above saying things in anger either. I think we've all crossed that line.

Consider it dead.