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Birthright is trying to synthesize a complete, contuinuous origin from a hodgepodge tacking on of items over the 60 plus year history. It's mostly silver age, yeah, since this generation of writers grew up in the silver age. This origin is no more and no less valid than any version that has gone before it or will come after it. Time marches on, kiddies!
Sometime in 2014 somebody will revamp the origin back to a Byrne style, and there will be a 2014 group of internet hacks that will rip the shit out of it. Life goes on!
Last edited by Captain Cranky; 2004-03-16 2:56 PM.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."
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ManofTheAtom said:
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whomod said:
That is why i've supported Birthright from the start and why i'll support and turn anyone on to anything that moves away from the flaccid dismal '86-99' continuity.
Interesting oxymoron, considering that according to Berganza, BR and everything from that "flaccid" continuity, are the same thing...
According to him, Lex went to school with BOTH Perry AND Clark...
Why is that a big deal? Why do you break your balls over it? As soon as something like that becomes relevant to the story being told RIGHT NOW, not 15 years ago, it will be explained properly.
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Mxy, I lost my glasses, could you read this for me please?
K T L P Y X M
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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ManofTheAtom said:
I'm a fucktard, whats outside like?
now known as rex
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
Mxy, I lost my glasses, could you read this for me please?
K T L P Y X M
Thank you explaining why Jerry White, a dead character nobody remembers, is so fucking important to today's comics.
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I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Thank you explaining why Jerry White, a dead character nobody remembers, is so fucking important to today's comics.
You remember him... if no one remembers him, why does his name keep getting brought up over and over again?
Last edited by ManofTheAtom; 2004-03-17 6:37 PM.
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Keeps getting brought up?! By whom?! I remember him because I read those comics. They were okay, but I'm not an idiot so I don't expect everyone to know about him and care about him and make it fucking matter to today's comics, when, really, he's an unimportant piece of the past that should be forgotten like many others. Clinging to him as if he was worth it is not only useless, it's quite bizarre.
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I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Clinging to him as if he was worth it is not only useless, it's quite bizarre.
Yet people keep doing it... this isn't the only msg board online, you know?
Go to Supermanhomepage.com's Ask Eddie forum. People keep asking him about Jerry and other past continuity things all the time.
Sure, most of those questions may come from people that hated those ideas who just want to make sure they aren't an issue anymore, but in asking they are bringing the character's name up for others to see...
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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So fucking what?! What difference does it make if his name is brought up? He still doesn't matter to today's comics. He's a thing of the past, a sub plot that was terminated for good, something like that is irrelevant today and shouldn't get in the way of new comics.
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ManofTheAtom said:
People keep asking him about Jerry and other past continuity things all the time.
First off, anybody who obsesses aabout continuity is a moron. Let them tell good stories in a relatively coherent manner. As long as Superman looks like he's wearing the same suit from issue to issue, IT'S ALL FICTIONAL, PEOPLE!
Second, anybody who obsesses about Jerry White is a double moron. A teeny tiny subplot character at best, a complete waste of time to discuss now. Who cares about that pissant sportscaster guy from the 70's, or Clark's TV director? NOBODY!
Third, anybody asking Eddie about continuity issues is a triple moron. Pshhht, Eddie? Eddie is lucky to remember to dress himself before coming to work.
Forth, whoever invented the idea of continuity is a 24-karat moron. That's what's really wrong. Continuity is what really fucks up all the fanboys out there, isn't it?
Last edited by Captain Cranky; 2004-03-17 7:08 PM.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."
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Captain Cranky said:
Forth, whoever invented the idea of continuity is a 24-karat moron. That's what's really wrong. Continuity is what really fucks up all the fanboys out there, isn't it?
Nope, the problem is with those that ignore it, not those that use it and like it.
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I agree with your point, mostly, but the problem is that there isn't anybody who can do that anymore. Even if we assumed your ideas were 100% perfectly right, there are a million different ideas of what's 100% perfectly right that may-or may not-be as valid as yours. I like some of your ideas, MOTA, but I like a lot of ideas, and we aren't in charge. In fact, I'm not sure anybody is in charge.
Continuity is in a constant state of being rewritten, retconed, revised, retroed, retreaded, reviled, reevaluated, revamped, stomped on and just plain dumped, and it's been going on as long as comics have existed. Some hot shit writer comes along every few years and coms up with a different spin, putting whatever previous writer's ideas in the toilet. I used to pay a lot of attention to continuity, but years ago it meant something and now they put a yogurthead like Eddie in charge and it doesn't mean anything any more.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."
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The thing is, if continuity is so bad then why is everyone so worried about being part of it?
Writers should be able to tell theirown stories withouthaving to worry about continuity, but their egos get in the way.
They want their voice and their opinion to be the only one that counts.
Some writers are able to work with what's come before and put their ego in second, third or even last place.
Others, like Waid, are driven JUST by ego. Waid can't accept a point of view that deviates from Maggin's and Mort's ideas on the character of Superman.
Now that he's been given the chance to do something about it, he took it.
Berganza has become Waid's puppet through Didio.
What's happening today is EXACTLY, to the letter, what Morrison, Waid, Peyer and Millar wanted to do back in 99; reboot the character but mix it in with everything that's come before, even what contradicts itself.
Berganza said no and DC supported him, giving him the power to do what ever he wanted on the Superman comics.
That became the crap we saw in the last few years.
Now DC (aka Didio) has step up to fix Berganza's mess. To do that he got Waid to come work on the Superman titles.
I'm sure it was Waid thatsuggested an origin and Didio didn't give a damn what he wanted to do as long as he did it.
To please Waid, DC had to reboot Superman.
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In your opinion, MOTA. Which is no more or less valid than anyones, even MXY's.
Don't state your opinion like it's cold, hard, 100% fact. I's interesting, it's worth discussing, but it isn't fact.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."
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Captain Cranky said:
In your opinion, MOTA. Which is no more or less valid than anyones, even MXY's.
Don't state your opinion like it's cold, hard, 100% fact. I's interesting, it's worth discussing, but it isn't fact.
Considering that it uses facts as its basis and its backed by actions, I'd say that it is fact.
Look at the comics, look at Berganza's own actions in re to this story and compare it to his position five years ago.
For him to have gone from NOT wanting Waid to reboot Superman to his suddenly support it is a 180 turn in opinion.
This clearly comes from someone higher up.
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ManofTheAtom said:
Will I ever know the touch of a woman?
now known as rex
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rexstardust said:
Will I ever know the touch of a woman?
I hope you do, it's very cool.
It's sad that you haven't.
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Heh. Cute.
I could say that Llance needs to snort a package of lime jello every hour to survive. I could say it all over the internet, I could say it a thousand times, but that doesn't make it a fact.
I say again, MOTA, all you are saying is your own opinion and you are saying it's fact. It's plausible, it COULD be true. Your theory fits the limited facts, but it's still pure conjecture. You're just blowing smoke. That doesn't make it true!
"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
The thing is, if continuity is so bad then why is everyone so worried about being part of it?
Continuity can become a problem in some cases, when it gets in the way of a particular story. If that happens, and if the writer doesn't agree with absolute continuity, what reason is there to follow it? Keeping a consistency with titles from ten or fifteen years ago?
I can understand why some people think like that, but you should understand that NOT EVERYONE THINKS LIKE THAT. Why should everyone follow your personal tastes? The absolute continuity you want leaves anything that doesn't respect it outside.
Basically what you're saying here is that you're more intelligent and more important than those with opinions different from yours. That's a fucking idiotic thing to think, and, yes, it does make you a fucking idiot. Should you be denied the pleasure of reading anal retentive continuity following comics because you're a fucking idiot? No. There should be a space for everyone, even those like you that think they're the only one who matters.
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There's been space for everyone for years.
New comics for continuity fans, Elseworlds and reprints for non-continuity fans.
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
I masturbate on superman comics.
now known as rex
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rexstardust said:
I masturbate on superman comics.
You do?
That's just pathetic.
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
There's been space for everyone for years.
New comics for continuity fans, Elseworlds and reprints for non-continuity fans.
If there's so many Elseworlds, let's switch: All the main titles for out of continuity stories and the occasional special, raphic novel and reprint for in continuity stories. How would you like that?
Why not, instead of forcing a writer to write in or outside continuity, just ASK HIM. "Hey, Bob, you wanna make your run in continuity?" "Sure, Midge, why not?" "Hey, Patrick, you wanna make your run in continuity?" "I'm gonna pass on that, Midge, but thanks for the offer!" "Hey, Petey, you wanna make your run in continuity?" "I wanna make mine ignore what goes before but set the basis for later. Not forever, obviously one day someone's gonna do the same again. Am I crazy or what?" "Boy, that'll make MOTA's head spin! We should pass on that, we don't wanna make the master of the universe angry." "You're right, I should probably kill myself now, since I'm obviously an egomaniac and a conspirator." "You wanna grap a cup of coffee?" "Sure, let's go!"
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No, each writer shouldn't get to choose what continuity he wants to work on.
That's what lead to Crisis in the first place, we don't need it again.
Continuity is an ever-growing collaborative effort and no man's ego should dictate what's going to happen.
Writers have to accept that others came before them and go from there, not use their popularity or ego to want to change what they don't like.
Last edited by ManofTheAtom; 2004-03-19 4:03 PM.
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1.Nothing fictional is sacred. A story having been written years ago makes no difference.
2.You want every current writer to not explore new ideas, to set aside their own egos? Shyeah, that'll happen.
If I were a comics writer, there would be nothing I'd want to do more than leave my mark on a beloved character, continuity be damned!
I do think that a new Crisis is probably neccessary. A lot of crappy continuity needs to be broomed. Too bad I can't think of a single current writer who could do it right.
Last edited by Captain Cranky; 2004-03-19 6:29 PM.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."
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Quote:
Captain Cranky said:
1.Nothing fictional is sacred. A story having been written years ago makes no difference.
Depending on the medium, right?
I haven't seen anyone deny that James Kirk was the Captain of the Enterprise or that Dr. Watson was Sherlock Holmes' partner.
Seems to me that the above quote only applies to comics and not fiction in general
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Captain Cranky said:2.You want every current writer to not explore new ideas, to set aside their own egos? Shyeah, that'll happen.
I never said that.
New ideas don't have to come at the cost of the PAST.
The past DOESN'T have to be re written to explore new ideas.
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Captain Cranky said:If I were a comics writer, there would be nothing I'd want to do more than leave my mark on a beloved character, continuity be damned!
And for you to leave your mark you have to piss over someone elses mark? Erase it even?
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Captain Cranky said:I do think that a new Crisis is probably neccessary. A lot of crappy continuity needs to be broomed. Too bad I can't think of a single current writer who could do it right.
Because none of them are up to the task of doing it.
The first Crisis came out of the need to streamline the universe.
To do another one out of ego is the most selfish of reasons.
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Well, now you are defending comics continuity by using an example of Star Trek continuity. If there is any group of fans that are more insane about continuity than comics fans, it's Trek fans. If you haven't noticed, TPTB in Trek rewrite the past all the time, and the fans scream bloody murder about it. If you ask me, they could recast the Captain Kirk era Enterprise with new actors and make new episodes, like the James Bond Series. But then again, I'm a heretic.
Nobody is suggesting jetisoning the entiety of Superman's continuity. Superman is an alien from another planet with abilities far beyond mortal man. DC periodically makes a whole bunch of years of DC continuity disppear. Characters, situations, subplots comeand go. Remember WGBS? Steve Lombard? Cat Grant? Does anybody care today? Allegedly housecleaning, possibly effective. I have 1950's Batman comics where the man's jaw cuts my finger as I turn the page, and Superman comics with villains that Blue Beetle wouldn't break a sweat over. Those stories are so far out of current continuity that they are laughable, but I love them just the same. I'm not going to take a story where Superman fights a pro wrestler seriously. I'm not going to take Egg Fu and try and fit him into a continuous, logical history of the DCU. Some of the DCU past is STUPID. A continuity cop like yourself is trying to make the past fit the present and the future and in some cases it can't and shouldn't be done. yeah, by your lights some current writers have pissed on the past. Seen another way, they aren't handcuffed by a ludicrous past. How do you suppose some of the classic Superman writers and wonderful Superman artist Curt Swan felt when John Byrne complete a very successful revamp in 1986? At the very least, I'm sure they felt that their labors had been pissed on.
In every field, including non creative ones, policies change and evolve. Sometimes existing policies and ideas are good ones and are either retained and elaborated/expanded on, sometimes they are modified radiccally because situations and thinking have changed, and sometimes an idea isso out of date or stupid it's dumped entirely. My grandpa was a grocer, with a store so small it wouldn't even be considered a superette today. He sold his pickles from a big wooden barrel. By your way of thinking of not negating the past, pickles in grocery stores today should still be sold that way, we wouldn't want to step on the past. Well, times change, ways of doing things change, and the world changes. Why shouldn't comics?
DC will do another Crisis once they feel that the crap has to be rinsed off their heroes. Hopefully the new guys will be up to the task. The next crisis will be neccessary.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
No, each writer shouldn't get to choose what continuity he wants to work on.
That's what lead to Crisis in the first place, we don't need it again.
Continuity is an ever-growing collaborative effort and no man's ego should dictate what's going to happen.
Writers have to accept that others came before them and go from there, not use their popularity or ego to want to change what they don't like.
You should create a company and name it Fascist Comics. Yeah, you guessed it, I was gonna say Nazi Comics but I didn't because you wouldn't get the joke.
I'm so glad that the people that run comics don't think like you. Or that they think at all, I should say.
So whoever doesn't agree with absolute continuity should be out of the main comics? Why the fuck? Because YOU don't like them? Well, buddy, I might. Hundreds, millions of others might not give a shit about continuity and like the stories and want them in the main comics. Have you ever thought about that? Obviously not, you only think of what you want.
Seriously, you have no right of calling anyone an egomaniac, when you have SERIOUS problems with your ego.
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:Depending on the medium, right?
I haven't seen anyone deny that James Kirk was the Captain of the Enterprise or that Dr. Watson was Sherlock Holmes' partner.
Seems to me that the above quote only applies to comics and not fiction in general
A) Continuity in comics is A LOT more convulted than continuity on books or TV series. How many series of books or shows are there that interconnect with each other? How many are suppoused to form a coherent world with each other? How many official Sherlock Holmes books are there? How many official Superman books are there? How many TV shows and movies constitute the world Captain Kirk lives in? How many comics books constitute the world Superman live in?
b) Given the right circumstances, a story where parts of Holmes' history are ignored could become a good story. I'm not going to give examples because I can't think of any right now, but there a lot of cases in literature when continuity between a series of books isn't respected 100%.
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I never said that.
New ideas don't have to come at the cost of the PAST.
The past DOESN'T have to be re written to explore new ideas.
Crisis. MoS, your bible, came from Crisis.
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And for you to leave your mark you have to piss over someone elses mark? Erase it even?
Who said anything about that? Think about Byrne.
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Quote:
Captain Cranky said:
Remember WGBS? Steve Lombard?
Crisis made it so Clark never worked there... if Byrne had rebooted without Crisis then he'd be as guilty of being a hack as Waid is today.
Byrne had an advantage Waid didn't have (he actually had many advantaged Waid didn't have, like Crisis, support, fans, sales, publicity, originality, etc).
Quote:
Captain Cranky said:I have 1950's Batman comics where the man's jaw cuts my finger as I turn the page, and Superman comics with villains that Blue Beetle wouldn't break a sweat over. Those stories are so far out of current continuity that they are laughable, but I love them just the same. I'm not going to take a story where Superman fights a pro wrestler seriously. I'm not going to take Egg Fu and try and fit him into a continuous, logical history of the DCU. Some of the DCU past is STUPID.
Which is why Crisis happened, but now Waid is bringing the stupidity back.
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Captain Cranky said:A continuity cop like yourself is trying to make the past fit the present and the future and in some cases it can't and shouldn't be done. yeah, by your lights some current writers have pissed on the past. Seen another way, they aren't handcuffed by a ludicrous past.
That happened back in 87. Today, Waid is bringing back all the crap that got jettisoned with Crisis.
He's bringing the handcuffs back because he liked them.
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Captain Cranky said: How do you suppose some of the classic Superman writers and wonderful Superman artist Curt Swan felt when John Byrne complete a very successful revamp in 1986? At the very least, I'm sure they felt that their labors had been pissed on.
Swan contributed a ton of Superman stories after Crisis.
The only one that felt pissed on was Maggin, Waid's guru. DC didn't accept his idea for a reboot, instead choosing to go with Byrne's.
Today Waid is ghostwriting Maggin's ideas.
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Captain Cranky said:In every field, including non creative ones, policies change and evolve. Sometimes existing policies and ideas are good ones and are either retained and elaborated/expanded on, sometimes they are modified radiccally because situations and thinking have changed, and sometimes an idea isso out of date or stupid it's dumped entirely.
None of which applies now.
The reboot isn't happening because of a magic clock. It's happening because Berganza killed sales and Waid wants to reboot, he's been wanting to reboot for the last five years.
If the comic were selling a million copies, do you think DC would reboot?
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Captain Cranky said:Why shouldn't comics?
Change is a great thing, when done right and when it offers something new.
BR is NOT change, BR is a revival of all the old ideas you have ever seen in a Superman comic.
It doesn't offer anything fresh or unknown.
Man of Steel did.
Man of Steel challenged peoples perceptions of the character to the point that Maggin wanted to buy him from DC because, in his opinion, they had changed him too much from what he considered the character to be.
Today Waid is doing something that fits within people's preconceptions of the character.
He's not doing anything that can be considered innovative.
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Captain Cranky said:DC will do another Crisis once they feel that the crap has to be rinsed off their heroes. Hopefully the new guys will be up to the task. The next crisis will be neccessary.
The first one was necessary.
We don't need one now. The only character in trouble is Superman.
If Johns could fix Hawkman without a Crisis, why can't he or someone else do the same with Superman?
Waid wasn't up to the task, all he did was make a bigger mess of things.
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ok mota, heres the plan:
First: take a deep breath, and say comics are not real
second: bend over and reach between your legs, see a stick sticking out of your ass? Good now pull it out. That should help immensely.
Third: Get out of your parents basement, take a shower, and go outside.
That bright thing in the sky is the sun, and no it doesn't give you super powers. Talk to people. The ones with the long hair and boobies are called women. They make men happy. If you have to there are ones that you can pay to teach you things, they are usually in bad parts of town, but since you live in Mexico, thats everywhere.
Get drunk and pay for one. In the morning you will realize there are more important things in the world than comic book continuity.
This should help you, and don't worry I don't expect any thanks, you calming down should be enough thanks for me and every one else.
now known as rex
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Posts: 985 |
What the hell are you talking about?
Who said comics are real?
If you took that out of anything I said, then you're the delusional one.
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 53,734 Likes: 2
Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 53,734 Likes: 2 |
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 985
500+ posts
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500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 985 |
Here are icv2's numbers for the titles I listed before:
ADVS O/SUPERMAN #625 52,055
ACTION COMICS #812 51,466
SUPERMAN #202 50,449
SUPERMAN BIRTHRIGHT #7 35,953
Compared to when BR came out:
SUPERMAN BIRTHRIGHT #1 48,789
SUPERMAN #195 35,302
ACTION COMICS #805 31,959
ADVS O/SUPERMAN #618 29,086
Pathetic...
Worst selling origin story ever...
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 272
200+ posts
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200+ posts
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 272 |
MOTA, yer just not a fun guy to play with. I was gonna quote a dictionary definition of "fanatic" but I was afraid your picture was in there.
We know you hate Waid and averything he writes. We all got that. We know you think continuity is sacred. God knows we know you aren't flexible. I'd insert a picture of a dead horse here, if I knew how.
Your own signature says everyone has a different opinion about comics. So why are you so inflexible about yours?
Got anything else?
Last edited by Captain Cranky; 2004-03-21 5:07 PM.
"Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat."
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,920
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,920 |
MOTA, what rex was saying about you having a stick in your arsehole means that you're uptight. Anal retentive.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 985
500+ posts
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500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 985 |
Quote:
Captain Cranky said:
We know you hate Waid and averything he writes. We all got that.
Where did you get that?
I loved Waid's work on Flash, it's his Superman crap that I find to be patheticly outdated fanboy bs.
Quote:
Captain Cranky said:Your own signature says everyone has a different opinion about comics. So why are you so inflexible about yours?
Just because I aknowledge that everyone has a different opinion on comics doesn't mean I loose my right to have my own idea about comics...
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 985
500+ posts
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500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 985 |
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
So whoever doesn't agree with absolute continuity should be out of the main comics? Why the fuck? Because YOU don't like them? Well, buddy, I might. Hundreds, millions of others might not give a shit about continuity and like the stories and want them in the main comics. Have you ever thought about that? Obviously not, you only think of what you want.
Where are they?
Where are all of these hundreds of people that don't care about continuity?
I have new for you, continuity or not, those people aren't buying comics.
People that like continuity LEFT comics the moment the publishers stopped using it and NO ONE came out to replace them.
You do understand that the only reason to a story in the main comic is for continuity, right?
Mxy, I really think that you're loosing perspective of this.
You're argueing that writers should be able to tell out of continuity stories in the main titles so that people that don't like continuity can buy them.
Do you see how illogical that is?
I mean, what kind of random reader would pick up a comic with three-digit numbering?
Doesn't it make more sense to tell out of continuity stories in separately titled one shots so that random readers can just pick them up without having to be overwhelmed by the high numbering of the ongoing series?
Leave the ongoing series to those of us that are gonna go out of their way to buy the comics month in and month out, and make separate one shots for the random readers that just want something to read to kill time.
The odds of a reader that isn't interested in continuity buying a three-digit numbered comic are pretty slim to begin with (why do you think Marvel keeps relaunching their titles?)
I don't see why continuity fans and non-continuity fans can't get what they both want.
Ongoing series for continuity fans (those that are sure to buy the comic every month), and one shots and three-four issue minis for the non-continuity fans, those of us that only buy a comic every three months.
Everyone wins...
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 985
500+ posts
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500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 985 |
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
A) Continuity in comics is A LOT more convulted than continuity on books or TV series. How many series of books or shows are there that interconnect with each other? How many are suppoused to form a coherent world with each other? How many official Sherlock Holmes books are there? How many official Superman books are there? How many TV shows and movies constitute the world Captain Kirk lives in? How many comics books constitute the world Superman live in?
Did you hear about the three-way crossover between the Smalvlille comic book, the Smallville website and... what was the third one? The TV show or another issue of the comic?
I don't remember the third one, but either way, crossovers between multiple media CAN happen, and it happens more often than you think.
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
b) Given the right circumstances, a story where parts of Holmes' history are ignored could become a good story. I'm not going to give examples because I can't think of any right now, but there a lot of cases in literature when continuity between a series of books isn't respected 100%.
And in 99.99% of those cases those stories don't leave a mark, they come and go.
Remember Young Sherlock Holmes?
Awesome movie (one of my favorites) that didn't go anywhere.
That movie was the equivalent of an out of continuity comic.
No one involved with the movie said "this happened! This is cannon! Ignore the novels, this is the way it happened from now on!!". They just told their fun little movie and that was it, period.
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Crisis. MoS, your bible, came from Crisis..
Yeah, so?
Crisis erased the past. Crisis was the exception to what you quoted because that was its purpose, to clean the barnacles, the chains, and the crap, to make way for the new.
BR doesn't have anything similar to it.
If it did, then MAYBE more people would have accepted it.
Go to the DC boards. Every day I see new posts from people that hate BR...
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Who said anything about that? Think about Byrne.
Byrne had Crisis, as did Perez and Miller.
What does Waid have?
Eddie Berganza, franchise killer.
Not so much of a comparison...
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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