Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
All my real life friends that like comics and most of the online ones don't give a shit about continuity.



I bet I can prove you wrong on that

Besides comics, what kind of entertainment do your real life friends like?

What TV or video games?

I bet that they know some continuity from either a favorite TV show or a favorite series of video games.

In most cases that I've seen continuity isn't the problem, the problem is the medium.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Well, DUH! Because up until recently they were, at least in DC, ruled by continuity. It's hard to shake that anal retentive image of comics off one's head. I've told people about DiDio's speech and they say "We'll see."



Then those people are retards that think that comics can't be real entertainment, that they should be only for the simplistic minded.

Throwaway reading for when you go to the bathroom.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
No, they left the moment it started becoming a problem. During the first years of the post Crisis DCU there wasn't enough continuity to make it a problem for writers and readers. Once that continuity started getting old (mid-90's), guess what, most of the shit started sucking and people started leaving.



That had nothing to do with continuity.

The quality of the stories is up to the writer and the penciler, nothing more.

Continuity's a tool... either you know how to use it or you don't, period.

Blame the suckage of those comics on the writers not being good enough to use the tool, not on the tool itself.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
NO. A story in any comic is for the sake of a good story. It can be a one issue story, it can be a twelve year story, whatever. The purpose is to produce good stories. If it was all about continuity 22 pages of Bat-Man sitting in a couch would be enough to make a good comic. Continuity for the sake of continuity is a waste of paper. Making a story follow continuity isn't enough to make a good comic. On the other hand, a good story that doesn't follow continuity is still a good story.



A story without repercutions... what's the fun in that?

I'm not saying that all stories have to be writen to address past continuity, just that once they are writen they become part of continuity.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Maybe you buy comics to see a story continued for eternity, not caring if it's good or bad, but I think that's pointless and a waste of money. You can have your continuity following "stories" for all I care, but don't expect everyone to accept that every main comic should be like that.



You're using the words good and bad like if they were a standard, when they're a preference.

What if we were talking about food and you were trying to convince me how great a burrito is?

You may love to eat burritos, but maybe I don't, maybe I hate the taste.

Same with comics.

You think that Superman between 86 and 99 sucked.

I think it was great.

To me it was good, to you it was bad.

Not a standard, but a preference.

See the difference?

You can't use terms like good and bad like you're doing.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I insist, and this is my main point: AS LONG AS THERE ARE WRITERS WILLING TO TELL STORIES YOUR WAY, THAT'S WHAT YOU'LL GET. If there are no writers willing to do that... or just a bunch of them... then, bad luck for you. You can't force writers to follow your rules.



Looking at sales in the last five years, which is when the Superman writers stopped using continuity, it's "bad luck" not just for the readers but for the writers.

Writers and pencilers in the Superman comics were just fired for sucking, for being so "bad" that no one wanted to read their crap.

Ignoring continuity cost them their jobs.

You say that using continuity is just as bad.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Sigh... That's not what I mean. It's all about the stories. A story can be produced with or without continuity. Forcing a writer who doesn't want to use continuity to use it is as stupid as forcing a writer who WANTS to use continuity not to use it. What I'm against is forcing writers to use something they don't want to use, so that we get good stories. My opinion is that lame stories come from forcing writers to do things. So you think continuity is the best way to go... whatever. If the writer doesn't, that's his right, and there's nothing you can do about it.



It's their right, and many writers used that right.

Those writers no longer have a job because of it...

Funny how using continuity leads to popular stories and ignoring it leads to unpopular ones, eh?

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Uh... That's a weak argument. I would pick a comic with a seven digit numbering if there was something about it that attracted me. The first issue of Superman I picked up was Action #687. Around that same time I picked up issues of X-Men, Spider-Man and Bat-Man. I can't remember the exact numbers, but htey were pretty high. And I enjoyed most of those issues.



Which I bet had continuity in them...

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
If there's something good going on in the in-continuity main series, then yeah. But what if it's a low selling lame comic? Or, it's a good comic, but the writer that made it good just left? And then a writer comes in with a brilliant idea for the comic, that happens to contradict something that happened some time ago in that same comic. I say give him the main comic and don't worry about continuity. Those that do worry about it and don't care wether it's a good story or not, can just skip it. Buy something else. Read an old issue. Go have an ice cream. Give the money to charity. Whatever.



Again, writers that ignore continuity end up getting fired, while writers that honor continuity become popular.

Remember Geoff Johns?

Remember Stars & S.T.R.I.P.E.?

He's a continuity writer with a strong fan following.

The Super writers, who started as X-Men writers with a strong fan following, lost it after their work on Superman because they decided to ignore continuity.

It's their choice, sure, but you can't ignore the fact that writers that ignore continuity don't produce good or popular stories.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
What do you mean, "to kill time"? What does that mean? So they -we- are less of a reader because we don't follow a comic not caring if it's good or bad? I'd say we're more of a reader, because we actually read, we actually care about the quality of the story and not just wether it contradicts anything from the past 17 years or not.



But you don't care about the quality of the story, you only care about the quality of the issue.

You just want something to read to kill time.

You won't follow a series if it uses continuity, you only want to buy something by impulse so you can read in a day or whatever.

That's what one shots and minis are for.

Buy a Superman one shot, it'll give you what you're looking for.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Going out of your way to buy the comic every month doesn't make you special. It may make you loyal to the character (a loyalty I don't understand -- by buying lame stuff you're only encouraging the editorial to publish it), but it doesn't give you the right to chose what happens in the comic. I may not buy all the comics every month, but Superman is as mine as it is yours. We're both fans with opposing points of view. There's no reason why DC should listen to you and ignore me.



That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that you are a reader that ISN'T going to buy a comic every single month, it's not within you.

But you still have the right to read a story with that character if you want to.

Buy a one shot, it has a beginning, middle and end.

Why buy an ongoing series that you're not going to follow?

Don't tell me that the moment comics stop using continuity you'll start buying Superman on a monthly basis.

What you want is for the ongoing series to be turned into a series of 12 one shots a year, each one individual from the other.

Or for there to be 2-3 issue stories, which would make it a series of mini series and one shots.

Why not just get the mini series and one shots and leave the ongoing series to those that buy it year round?

Everyone wins.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I disagree. I think most new readers to a character start buying comics that have already started. A long time ago or last year, it doesn't matter.



So each comic should ignore continuity because it's someone's first?

That doesn't work, that's impossible to do.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
And let's sey you're right... so that comic is ONLY for old readers? That would mean people can't join, they can only leave.



You're generalizing what I said.

I said the ongoing series for the continuity fans and the one shots and minis for the impulse buyers, those that like you don't care about continuity, only want to read a random Superman story that doesn't depend on what came before or comes after.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Right! Monthly ongoing comics for all.



Doesn't work.

The non-continuity fans don't want it and the continuity fans do.

Why fight over the ongoing titles when we can each have what we want?

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
If a selective reader buys only once every three months it's because there's nothing good in between. As I said, a story can take one issue or ten years. If an ongoing series keeps producing good stories I'll buy it for as long as it lasts. If I don't have money, I'll make money.



Good is subjective to your preference, it's not a standard.

You keep saying that I buy "bad" comics... just because YOU don't like them, doesn't make them bad.

Quote:

I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I like to think that if everyone was a selective reader we would get nothing but good stories every month. By not buying a lame run you're making an statement: HEY, DC, I DON'T LIKE LAME RUNS!



There's no such thing as good.

Good is a subjective term.

You can't use it as a standard

Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...