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the G-man said:
The thread about liberals hating President Bush seemed to be going off topic into whether or not they hate the United States.

So, rather than let that thread spiral off-topic any more than necessary, here is a corrollary thread: Do Liberals Hate America?



I'm going to make the same comment I made on this thread as I did on the other one. Some probably do, some definitely don't. Even if a majority of liberals do, I know for a fact that there are some who don't. There are some who will say "all liberals do," and that's unfair to liberals who don't (just as any other stereotype or careless label is unfair).

Just for the sake of discussion, how do you guys define "hating America?" How broad is our definition of "hate?" Wishing harm on American citizens and residents, and the government is obvious. Blaming America first when it's definitely not our fault...yeah. But besides that, how else do we classify "hating America?" Can we say hating conservatives or liberals, or hating Democrats or Republicans is hating America, since our hatred is directed towards our fellow American citizens? The two sides obviosuly disagree on a lot of issues, but disagreeing with ideals and politics isn't the same as hatred. At least, not in my opinion.

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Richard Cohen, a liberal columnist for the Washington Post worries that they do. He writes:

    [The] tendency to blame America for the moral shortcomings of others unfortunately permeates the left and the Democratic Party.

    I got the first whiff of it after Sept. 11 when some people reacted to the terrorist attacks here by blaming U.S. policy -- in the Middle East specifically but around the world in general.

    The same sort of reasoning -- if it can be called that -- surfaced before and during the war with Iraq. Although I supported the war, I could always understand some of the arguments against it. But I could not understand those who said the war was about oil or empire or reconstruction contracts and who seemed to think that Saddam Hussein was the lesser of two evils -- the United States being the greater, of course.

    Below the surface of this reasoning seethes a perplexing animosity toward the United States -- not the people but the government and the economic system.





Obviously, this is just one man's opinion. He has the right to it, and its no more or less valid than any other opinion I've heard, but that doesn't necessarily make it true.

Then again, these days, how the heck do we even know who's right and what's true, no matter how many people say so? Especially in the midst of what may be the ugliest presidential campaign in our nation's history, with vicious, extremist propaganda all over the place. (A far cry from Bob Dole's comment about his campaign against Clinton - that Clinton was his opponent, not his enemy, and that's the way it should be in politics. And he was absolutely right. But I'm side-tracking. So moving along...)

BTW, I've never heard anybody say that the US was worse than Saddam (at least, not that I can recall off the top of my head). Are there any articles where someone actually makes this claim (without someone else "quoting them?" As a general rule, I'm suspicious of quotes taken out of context.)

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Then there's these pictures from recent American anti-war protests:












And the fact that the organizers of the "anti-war" movement are part of an anti-America group:

    The major anti-U.S. government demonstrations are organized by the Workers World Party, "Not in Our Name" and "International A.N.S.W.E.R."

    A.N.S.W.E.R. is an offshoot of the International Action Center, a front for the Worker's World Party.

    The Worker's World Party has existed for more than 30 years now and has always supported the enemies of the United States. The Workers World Party describes itself as Marxist in nature. The Workers World Party supports North Korea's brutal regime.

    Not in Our Name is financed by a million-dollar-a-year non-profit that supports Cuban dictator Fidel Castro and Sami Al-Arian, charged with fundraising for terrorist organizations Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.




These guys are definitely anti-American, and definitely sickos. But that doesn't mean they're liberals.

BTW, what is the third photo? What's it supposed to be a picture of?

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Is Cohen right?

Do his fellow liberals "always blame America first"?



Many certainly do. The question is, when liberals blame America first, do they do so purely out of hate, or do they blame America first because maybe we actually did screw up somewhere down the line? We're not perfect, and we can't always see our own mistakes.

If we screw up, and someone says "this is where you screwed up, here's how you can fix it," or "here's how to make sure you don't make the same mistake again," I think that's being a responsible citizen.

When someone just says "it's America's fault" no matter what the circumstances, that person's being an asshole or is just plain stupid.

Last edited by Darknight613; 2004-04-08 7:19 AM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey "If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script