RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Comic Books The comic industry: one point that sets it apart

Something interesting and unique about comics, compared to other entertainment facets:


It's the only industry where nearly everyone collectively agrees on what the greatest creation is of all-time. (Watchmen)

Isn't that weird? Pretty much 95% of all comic readers consider it to be true.

I don't think 95% of all readers even read the book.
Maybe 95% of them perceive it as the best...
A lot of fanboys would say it's the FOIL embossed X-Men by Rob Leifeld or Jim Lee.
Me, I love it!

I would respectfully disagree as to the level of support for Watchmen.

While definitely one of the best, I suspect that an equal number of fans would cite "Dark Knight Returns." Others "Batman Year One."

And don't forget non-superhero work. You have a lot of people who would point to the work of Will Eisner, or Art Spiegelman's "Maus."

And, if we move outside the U.S., you have the manga fans, who might cite, for example, "Lone Wolf and Cub."

Yeah, while I might agree it's the best(and even I'm not entirely sure, since there are so many great comics), I don't think 95% of comic fans do. I don't think 95% of comic fans have even read Watchmen.

I'd say regarding Alan Moore's work, it's more of a four-way toss-up between his masterworks on SWAMP THING, MIRACLEMAN, WATCHMEN, and my personal favorite of the four, V FOR VENDETTA.

Also high on my list of favorites of Moore is his "last Superman story" tribute to the Swan/Anderson-era Superman in SUPERMAN 423/ ACTION COMICS 583, reprinted in the SUPERMAN: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW trade.

Frank Miller's DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and BATMAN: YEAR ONE rank very high up there also.
And his DAREDEVIL: BORN AGAIN (from DD issues 226-233).

And although seldom mentioned by anyone, the first five volumes of Dave Sim's CEREBUS are, for my money, the equal of the best of Alan Moore's work. Very fun and intelligent reading.

And Don McGregor/Craig Russell's AMAZING ADVENTURES/ Killraven series (issues 18-39).




But I think for many of us, that "one point" in comics could just as easily be the Lee/Kirby Marvel titles (particularly THOR and FANTASTIC FOUR).
Or the Schwartz-edited Silver Age DC titles (I especially enjoyed Adam Strange/MYSTERY IN SPACE, FLASH, DETECTIVE COMICS and JLA).



For me personally, it's all About Jack Kirby and Neal Adams, and all other greatness descends from their groundbreaking work.

And as refined as the newer titles are (at least up through about 1990, when I mostly stopped caring) I gain more enjoyment from reading the earlier works again:

Neal Adams Deadman (STRANGE ADVENTURES 205-216)

Neal Adams BATMAN (issues 219, 232, 234, 237, 242-245, 251, 255)
and DETECTIVE COMICS (issues 395, 397, 400, 402, 404, 407, 408, 410, and loosely credited in 439)

Jack Kirby's fourth world books (1970-1972) :
FOREVER PEOPLE 1-11
NEW GODS 1-11
MISTER MIRACLE 1-9
JIMMY OLSEN 133-148

And even more so for me, Kirby's DEMON, KAMANDI and O.M.A.C. series.
KAMANDI especially is exactly the type of fun, heroism and adventure I love comic books for, as an experience unique from any other medium. The mind-blowing images and double-page spreads, likeable characters, pure fun and adventure.



I think there's general agreement on many other masterworks in comics, such as:

Wein/Wrightson SWAMP THING 1-10

O'Neil/Kaluta THE SHADOW

Goodwin/Simonson MANHUNTER (DETECTIVE 437-443)

Kubert TARZAN 207-235

Thomas/Smith CONAN 1-24 (and virtually all of the Buscema work I love too)

Starlin's CAPTAIN MARVEL 25-34

Starlin's WARLOCK (reprinted several times since they first appeared in 1974-1977)

Starlin's DREADSTAR / THE PRICE / METAMORPHOSIS ODYSSEY

Moench/Bolton's KULL: "Demon in a Silvered Glass" (BIZARRE ADVENTURES 26)

Moench/Gulacy's MASTER OF KUNG FU 18-50 (with a lot of fill-in issues)

Moench/Day's MASTER OF KUNG FU 102-120

Goodwin's EPIC ILLUSTRATED magazine

Moench/Sienkiewicz's MOON KNIGHT 1-30

Bruce Jones/Brent Anderson's KA-ZAR 1-27

Bruce Jones-edited Pacific Comics titles, TWISTED TALES, ALIEN WORLDS, SOMERSET HOLMES, BERNI WRIGHTSON:MASTER OF THE MACABRE, SILVERHEELS, etc.

Miller's DAREDEVIL 158-191, 225-233

Claremont/Byrne/Austin's X-MEN 108-143

Michelinie/Romita Jr/Layton IRON MAN 116-156

Stern/Romita Jr. AMAZING SPIDERMAN 224-251

Stern/Rogers, Golden, Paul Smith, etc's DOCTOR STRANGE 46, 48-73

Levitz/Giffen LEGION OF SUPERHEROES 285-306

Walt Simonson's THOR 337-380

Giffen/Dematteis/Maguire/Hughes JUSTICE LEAGUE/JLI/JLE, and all its annuals, specials, quarterlies, and what-not.

Perez's WONDER WOMAN

Tim Truman's HAWKWORLD miniseries.



All of these are very well written definitive runs on these series and characters.

It's hard to choose just one, from all these great stories, and more.

If I had to choose one, I'd probably choose a Kirby or Adams story.

But I certainly wouldn't object to an Alan Moore book being chosen either. WATCHMEN's a good choice.



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"This Man, This Wonder Boy..."

Dave, you practically just wrote a "Getting Started With Comic Books" index there...

Yeah I was wrong. I'm confusing comic book readers with comic book readers who are also internet message boarders.


Although... isn't it hard to imagine someone who is passionate about comics and DOESN'T use the internet?

what the fucks an internet?

Actually, I think that Kingdom Come is the best superhero comic ever written, it just made more sense than anything I've ever read. Granted I haven't read the Watchmen, but still, it has to be pretty darn good to make me change my mind.

The reason for this is the philosophical message of Kingdom Come; Must there be a Superman?

Superheroism over human achievement?

That theme is also strong in Watchmen.

As the line goes,

"Who watches the Watchmen?"

I think 95% of well-read comic fans should say that Watchmen is the most influential comic of the last 20 years, along with DKR. Just about every super hero drama created since has taken from Watchmen. Kingdom Come(which I like a lot, too) heavily so.