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I don't really think any of the main three characters in Planetary are suppose to be extraordinarily complex. I always liked the series for the cameo appearances, like Axel Brass, Jack Carter and Jim Wilder.
Even Elijah Snow never really seemed all that interesting to me, as a character. His past, yes, but he himself didn't really.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Quote:
Dave said:
Millar's Midnighter is a character who tortures people with industrial equipment and cattle prods, and uses ninja weapons in battle (scoring the odd shuriken shot at the groin of opponents just for the hell of it).
Kinda missed this part before. This isn't different from what Ellis did with the character. He had Midnighter using ninja weapons back in the Stormwatch days, where he first appeared. He also tortured someone for information in the pages of Stormwatch.
The only thing Millar really did was make Midnighter blatantly and openly gay, rather than keep it ambiguous(ambiguity is a fairly common characteristic of Ellis' writing, in strong opposition to the old classic heroes and villains that spend entire paragraphs describing their powers and origins, often while fighting).
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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- Morpheus. For the reasons people have stated earlier. He manages to be cold and distant throughout the majority of The Sandman, but still have the reader on his side. And he's a great device to explore all the different kinds of stories that Gaiman wanted to do.
- Yorick, from the pages of Y: The Last Man. In theory, he's the hero of the piece. But he's flawed. He's not as physically adept as his bodyguard, or as smart as his doctor companion. Plus he's kind of whiny. But damn, he's fun to follow around.
- Cassidy, of Preacher fame. Yeah, he's a dick. I didn't say he was a nice character. But the way Ennis pulled him off was great. Hard drinking Irish vampire... so immensely likable, enough so that as Ennis was dragging him down by digging into his past, I didn't necessarily want to know about it. His search for redemption near the end of the series is key to the climax.
- Okay, I'll say Wolverine as well... likable in that rowdy drinking, cussing, fighting kind of way, but balanced with his background as a samurai and his meditative qualities. Can be one dimensional in the hands of a poor writer, but when done properly (and not over exposed), a lot of fun to read and one of the more lovable X-Men (who are, by the way, probably my favourite superhero concept).
- Spider-Man. Particularly in the hands of Bendis over in his Ultimate title. The epitome of Marvel's "super heroes with problems" ideal. Neat powers and costume, but still has trouble with girls and homework. All that stuff.
- Magneto. The least evil of any major comic book villain, in a sense. When he's handled properly, you can see where he's coming from. Hmm... perhaps "least evil" is wrong. "Most identifiable", maybe?
- Tommy Monaghan, of Hitman. He's just cool.
- Ultimate Captain America. Old fashioned in the good way. As in, old fashioned without being corny. Does what's right, doesn't take crap, that kind of thing. Beat down Giant Man for laying a hand on Jan. Some people see Millar's Cap as a bastardisation of a classic concept, but I see it as making a boring concept interesting. Finally.
- The Hulk. Such a great character. The idea of a super powered being being the embodiment of an ordinary man's suppressed rage is the kind of concept that superhero comics were made for. Ultimate Hulk in particular is kinda cool... not just angry, but horny and hungry. All of Banner's suppressed urges. The way Hulk should be.
- Green Lantern. I just like him. Shut up.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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Danny likes Green Lantern! Danny likes Green Lantern!
I agree with you on Ultimate Cap. His wholesome values combined with this tactical ruthlessness seem to make him the living embodiment of WW2.
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1) Amanda Waller- I totally agree with you on that one, Dave. A complex character, she stared down Batman, kept Captain Boomerang in check and has a way to get people to do things they don't want to. 2) Deadshot: Undecided Suicidal Maniac, always the right lines. 3) Buddy Bradley He does not care and he's lazy as a bum. That I can identify with. 4) Fritzi from Love & Rockets Major babe that speaks with a lisp in some languages. 5) Cerebus Very short fuse. Doesn't suffer fools gladly, but is constantly hounded by them to the point of getting a major headache. Reminds me of myself. 6) Pip the Troll, Master of Debauchery 7) Batman I don't give a %&#§ which version, he is the Badass super-hero. 8) Hellboy cause he rawks. 9)Arseface That fellers got a face like an arse. Hoody hoo, it's fun to make fun of funny people. 10) Thanos Consort of Death, now a good Samaritian? Nobody knows his motives and he always has an ace up his sleeve. Can make people afraid by staring at them 
Think clean thoughts, chum.
-The Batman
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Hahahah, Pip the Troll, I remember him. I miss that guy.
Adam Warlock and the Infinity Watch was one of my favorite books back in the day. I loved Pip, Drax, Moondragon and the whole gang.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Quote:
Dave said:
I agree with you on Ultimate Cap. His wholesome values combined with this tactical ruthlessness seem to make him the living embodiment of WW2.
Ultimate Cap and Red Son Superman are similar in that they are both anomalies: Millar-written characters with morals.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Where is Superman? I thought we had an abundance of Superfans here.
Or, dare I say it, do people just buy the comic because they always have, regardless of the quality?
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I've tried to get into superman a couple times over the last two years but its never captured my attention.
now known as rex
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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Quote:
Dave said:
Where is Superman? I thought we had an abundance of Superfans here.
Or, dare I say it, do people just buy the comic because they always have, regardless of the quality?
He's on my list. And it's the opposite for me: I love the character but I haven't bought the comic for years because I refuse to pay for crappy shit.
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Quote:
Dave said:
Where is Superman? I thought we had an abundance of Superfans here.
Or, dare I say it, do people just buy the comic because they always have, regardless of the quality?
I really do dig supes, but I seem to only buy comics with him in it if they involve either Batman, Wonder Woman, or uhm... Jim Lee.
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I like Superman, too, he just hasn't been written well in so long it's hard to put him amongst my favorites.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Quote:
Animalman said:
Ultimate Cap and Red Son Superman are similar in that they are both anomalies: Millar-written characters with morals.
His Authority had morals. Most of the Ultimates do. He wrote one of the most beloved Superman titles in years.
His characters quite often have morals, they just aren't always in line with what we think of as traditional super hero morals. The Midnighter's moral code isn't the same as, say, Green Lantern's. But it's there.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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Quote:
Danny said:
Quote:
Animalman said:
Ultimate Cap and Red Son Superman are similar in that they are both anomalies: Millar-written characters with morals.
His Authority had morals. Most of the Ultimates do. He wrote one of the most beloved Superman titles in years.
His characters quite often have morals, they just aren't always in line with what we think of as traditional super hero morals. The Midnighter's moral code isn't the same as, say, Green Lantern's. But it's there.
Elijah Snow is a good example of this. Would Batman ever kick a captured opponent in the face? Yet every long-standing reader of Planetary would have cheered Elijah for the boot in Leather's mouth.
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Quote:
Danny said:
His Authority had morals. Most of the Ultimates do.
No they didn't. Ellis's may have, but Millar sent all that down the shitter. Even the pacifist of the group, Swift, became a party-crazy slut who killed without regard. Millar and his sheeplike fanbase argued the Authority were suppose to be the badguys all along.
As for the Ultimates, they care about money, fame and living the celebrity lifestyle. He used the same "power corrupts" characterization with the Authority. It's like X-Statix, only without a punchline.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Quote:
Animalman said:
Quote:
Danny said:
His Authority had morals. Most of the Ultimates do.
Quote:
As for the Ultimates, they care about money, fame and living the celebrity lifestyle. He used the same "power corrupts" characterization with the Authority. It's like X-Statix, only without a punchline.
Huh? Stark is Iron Man because he wants to do good before his brain tumour kills him. Cap is only with the Ultimates because his need to serve his country is the only constant in his life. Thor only helps out becvause he gets on well with Stark. Hulk is a slave to his impulses (nothing to do with fame). Black Widow and Hawkeye are soldiers. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver aren't even public, and help in exchange for the release of political prisoners. Only Wasp and Giant Man have celebrity status as a motivator.
You're confusing the fame which would come from being in the Ultimates with a desire to be in the Ultimates.
As for the Authority, Millar's very first arc, with the opening line, "Why don't superpeople take out the real bastards?" sets a higher moral tone than any other comic has for decades.
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And Ultimate Thor refused to join the team until the US gov. agreed to change certain of their policies dealing with other countries. (I'm going off of memory here, so it may not be exact wording.)
Millar does give his characters morals. You're just focusing on one aspect of the stories, Ani, and ignoring others.
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Yep: Thor only would help with Thor if Bush doubled his aid budget.
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Quote:
Dave said:
Huh? Stark is Iron Man because he wants to do good before his brain tumour kills him. Cap is only with the Ultimates because his need to serve his country is the only constant in his life. Thor only helps out becvause he gets on well with Stark. Hulk is a slave to his impulses (nothing to do with fame). Black Widow and Hawkeye are soldiers. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver aren't even public, and help in exchange for the release of political prisoners. Only Wasp and Giant Man have celebrity status as a motivator.
I was generalizing(I thought that was obvious), but as I said, Cap is an exception. Generally, Millar characters are bastards, either pure villains or heroes that blur the lines between right and wrong. I'm not even sure I can say Thor is a moral person yet, because his true motives haven't been revealed fully. I think his clash with the team may be due more to his own arrogance(since he views himself as a god) than to any true objection to what they do. His role in the team and tolerance of their actions seems contradictory.
Hulk isn't a member of the team(at least not up until the point when I read), he was an obstacle, so I wasn't really thinking of him. Stark lives up the celebrity life just as much as Wasp, Giant Man and Fury, and loves it. For Stark it's like a mid life crisis(or rather an end life crisis), only instead of buying a Porsche he joins a super-team.
Quote:
As for the Authority, Millar's very first arc, with the opening line, "Why don't superpeople take out the real bastards?" sets a higher moral tone than any other comic has for decades.
They may have been moral people at some point, but as I said, Millar took the book down the road he felt it was inevitably going, corrupting the team and supplanting a desire to do good with greed and self-indulgence, which led to their defeat. It's like an exaggerated thesis for the "power corrupts" angle that has become so popular in comics today.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Thor is there because he wants to help. He isn't getting paid. He's not actually an Ultimate. Stark is using all his money and power to help people. The Iron Man suit costs him a lot to use.
The Authority still risked their lives to save the world, damn it.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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Damn, I forgot Twitch Strummer Hopeless-Savage... he has to replace Ultimate Cap on my list.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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In this order:
- Batman
- Poison Ivy
- The Joker
- Barbara Gordon
- Kitty Pryde
- Slam Bradley
- Emma Frost
- Harley Quinn
- Lady Shiva
- Beast
Last edited by Carnyfoke; 2004-11-16 6:43 AM.
In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed, and blew it out. - Joker
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Bats and the X-Men, eh, Carny?
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Only way to go! Oh and Wondie.
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Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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Superman
-The original 1939 version. When he couldn't withstand a nuclear explosion, or turn back time, or push planets around, or eat kryptonite. When he fought politicians, and beat the hell out of guys who hit their wife. When he actually went against real problems, and went after the true villians of the world. That Superman.
Lex Luthor
-The Post-Crisis version, for many of the reasons Mxy listed. He's believable, and, in a realistic sense, quite possible. A man that can create a formula to make giant monkeys is silly. A man that can buy your family's land, and totally ruin your life through financial and political means.....that's scary.
Deathstroke, the Terminator
-Slade Wilson, the original 'Man-Who-Beat-Batman'. Not only the guy who pulled me into DC Comics (ala' The Judas Contract), but, the guy who can utilize ninety-percent of his brain. The guy who, single-handedly, broke the Titans down with his bare hands. The real Titans. The Nightwing, Raven, Kid Flash Titans. The threats. Can't wait to see what Meltzer does with him in IC.
Jack Knight, the Starman
-I almost disagree with putting the title 'Starman' by his name. Jack Knight is a character unto himself, even without the family legacy, or the cosmic staff. He's the most realistic character set within a Superhero-genre that I have ever had the pleasure of reading. The true inheritor to Peter Parker's 'Hero-With-Problems' motif. Except, Jack is just fucking cool.
Jenny Sparks
-I won't use any of Ellis' over-hyped taglines like 'The Woman That Killed God' shit. I will say, though, that she is one of my two favorite women in the comic medium. She has personality, drive, honor, loyalty, and sexuality. She can wear baggy pants, a Brit-flag shirt, smoke a pack a day, and still, doesn't have a problem making you understand that she could out-fight, out-drink, and out-fuck any man or woman in the room. Not to mention she shagged Elijah Snow. An honestly wonderful character.
Spider Jerusalem
-Say what you want about Ellis' Hunter S. Thompson-wannabe slant, Spider still rates as a character I can get behind. He hates the things I hate, and loves the things I cherish. And, in the end, he is balls-to-the-wall dedicated to his cause, showing no sign of sway. Truly a character that is unique.
Hippolytia
-The only real Wonder Woman in my eyes. And, the other female on my top-two hit list. There is none of the 'Let's Talk About Our Feelings'-Deanna Troi-crappola that Diana consistently tries to funnel down people's throats. She came, sword in hand, saw, and kicked ass. Whether it was laying down Nazi blood with her sword, or, making Ted Grant her bitch in bed, Polly will always be the superior Wonder Woman in my eyes.
Connor Hawke
-Hard to say why I like him so much. Maybe it's because he's Green Arrow withOUT the out-dated machoism of his father. Maybe it's because he's this Buddist Monk, content with the peace of flying a pinpoint-precision arrowhead into your temple. Maybe it was Grant Morrison's "The Key" storyline from JLA. I don't know. All I do know is, Connor is THE Green Arrow to me.
Jay Garrick
-A man so famous, you don't even have to use his code-name these days. The original Fastest Man Alive. Truly, the ultimate father-figure of the metahuman society, without falling into cheesy-cliches. He's paternal, not, Leave It To Beaver. He's wise, not all-knowing. And, he's fast. Sure, he can't break light speed. But, then again, who here can truly fathom such a thing? I find it much more exciting to imagine a man that can crack Mach One with his own two feet. And, no one else could pull off that damn helmet and make it work. He is, in my opinion, the epitome of 'cool' when it comes to the Golden Age.
Morpheus, the Dream
-Sorry, but, Daniel just doesn't cut it. And, as everyone else has gone into detail about him, I'll just make it simple: He's fucking Dream!! What's not to be impressed by? One of the best characters ever created in graphic form. A literary masterpiece.
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
-Sorry, but, Daniel just doesn't cut it.
Fuck you.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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Quote:
Danny said:
Quote:
Prometheus said:
-Sorry, but, Daniel just doesn't cut it.
Fuck you.
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
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Quote:
Danny said:
Quote:
Prometheus said:
-Sorry, but, Daniel just doesn't cut it.
Fuck you.
That's what you get for calling your grandfather two dimensional.  
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Quote:
Danny said:
Fuck you.
You suck at being Dream. Just admit it and move on with your life.
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Maybe he should move to Marvel and become the new Nightmare.
I mean, look at this guy. He really needs to retire to some tropical beach or something before his thyroid problems kill him:
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You know, if your cape is all ratty and full of holes, why even bother to wear it? Does he think it will take our attention off his elvin booties?
They're fucking green, pointy-toed booties!
Jaysis...even Robin could beat the dandruff out of this silly fucker....
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Too true
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80s shoulder pads. Very Dynasty.
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10. Batman - A top X comicbook character list without The Bats is against the basis of all modern thought. Whether I am right or wrong should be discussed with your peers this afternoon. Snack suggestion: Grapes.
9. Morpheus - There's an abundance of great characters on The Sandman, but of course I'd have to pick the focal point of the mythos; I just like how he can be both inspiring and depressing. Plus, he has a sense of humor too, albeit his mode of delivery is a wee bit on the deadpan side of things. It also doesn't hurt that he's one of the most powerful anthromorphic entities in...well, not just the universe..uhhh..everywhere?
8. Adam Warlock - I dunno why, but I kinda liked him when I was a kid even though I wasn't sure what his powers were without the infinity gauntlet (I knew he can fly, and he can shoot karmic blasts from the soul gem...but...what else?)
7. Corinthian(from the sandman) - The only homosexual comic book character I've read about whose novelty doesn't revolve solely around the fact that he likes cocks.
6. Death(from the sandman) - I don't know, she seems like someone you'd want to hang out with. Cute, svelte, witty and funny. And she says stuff like "Peachy Keen" and "Supercalifragilisticespialidowsius". I blame Gaiman, of course. If Todd McFarlane wrote the Sandman, Death would have horns, spider-legs and an unquenchable thirst for veangance.
5. Green Lantern - Any GL would do. I just like the power ring. I like imagining what I would do when entrusted with the most powerful weapon IN THE UNIVERSE (except against ripe bananas, taxi cabs, people with hepatitis, etc. etc.) - Have you never wondered if you can make emerald replicas of Angelina Jolie and Salma Hayek make out with each other?
4. Superman - The one portrayed on Kingdom Come.
3. Rorscharch - I like his "no-compromise" attitude, and he has great lines. Thanks to Moore.
2. Lucifer(the Gaiman and Carey version) - for the same reasons Dave has given. And really, he's so kickass that even when he's mortal, powerless, and in their territory, the Japanese gods are still deathly afraid of him.
1. Prof. X - He fights crime on a floating wheelchair. Tell me if that isn't one of the coolest superhero concepts ever.
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The Corinthian is gay!?
I don't know that I'd agree with that Mxy. I'm not sure he even has a sexual urge at all. I think he just likes eating eyeballs.
I agree with your extra comments on Lucifer. Its quite correct - even powerless (as he has been twice so far), he is a force to be reckoned with, simply because he plays a good game with a bad hand. His disposal of the extremely powerful Basanos while he himself was without powers was sheer poker bluff.
With his powers, he is second only to God. I loved the way he cut loose and incinerated those Asgardian giants. And of the two other giants, one of them brained his brother simply so he'd live after the brother offended Lucifer. In clearing out his universe of gods, he acknowledged to Elaine that given the nature of his powers he'd have trouble keeping the body count down. That's a pretty formidable character.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,367 Likes: 14
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,367 Likes: 14 |
Quote:
Danny said:
Damn, I forgot Twitch Strummer Hopeless-Savage... he has to replace Ultimate Cap on my list.
who?
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,884 Likes: 18
Son of Anarchist 15000+ posts
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Son of Anarchist 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,884 Likes: 18 |
Quote:
Dave said:
The Corinthian is gay!?
I don't know that I'd agree with that Mxy. I'm not sure he even has a sexual urge at all. I think he just likes eating eyeballs.
Neil(who, by the way, has a very sexy first name) pointed it out on Hy Bender's book. And that's basically my point, you can pretty much...heh..."enjoy"...the character without even knowing that he's gay.
Quote:
Dave said:I agree with your extra comments on Lucifer. Its quite correct - even powerless (as he has been twice so far), he is a force to be reckoned with, simply because he plays a good game with a bad hand. His disposal of the extremely powerful Basanos while he himself was without powers was sheer poker bluff.
Yeah. For someone who's got no genitals, he's got a whole lot of balls.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,920
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,920 |
Quote:
Dave said:
I don't know that I'd agree with that Mxy.
He's Not Mister Mxypltk.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,367 Likes: 14
Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
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Banned from the DCMBs since 2002. 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,367 Likes: 14 |
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