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And in case it wasn't made clear in the story, the future-stuff was REAL. The battle with Strikeforce 4 was REAL. It wasn't a simulation like the Star Trek holodecks, even though Euro's writing made it seem like that. It wasn't intended to be anything but real. But the Strikeforcers who the team fought were either from a different timeline or from the near-future, so that Jia is still alive, for instance.
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Euro doesn't seem to think this was always the course either, at least not by his earlier statements. Page 2 Quote:
By the way, this situation, with (some) of them needing to find a job and a place to live, is the original idea behind the move to La Perdita. I distinctly remember Gooz, once, talking about Naecken going to cook french fries in a restaurant...
And again, on page 3.
Quote:
I don't want to dictate anything, just, take this calmly. The heroes that formed Vanguard intl. are stuck in the nation of La Perdita, as of now. Let's explore the place, make plan... but not yet start to build anything, as they have no money to do so. I KNOW that Griss and Phil are rich, but a rich man wouldn't invest so much money in something is not yet sure what should be.
I say: adapt to La Perdita. Find new friends. Meddle with governement, natives, immigrants, hidden threaths.
"Party's over, Monarch! I'm shutting down this little treehouse of yours!" Brock Samson
"Inarticulate fury" is the greatest phrase ever." Danny
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As I said, this new HQ -- if we choose to accept it -- gives us options. It does not mean any more.
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P.S. You're all fired. 
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But I had one day left until retirement!
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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But you weren't getting paid either way!
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Wow. Just... wow.
Y'know, I was really enjoying this story until the big battle ended. REALLY enjoying it! And, then... this.
I don't understand why the entire group can't be united about anything. There are always one or two who seem content to do their own thing and completely miss the idea of a group dynamic. And, up until today, we were doing great with the group dynamic thing.
Only to find out that all the advice we'd given Phil about writing as a team player had been completely ignored by two people who are considered veterans. I'm at a complete loss.
I, for one, do not accept the new HQ... just like I didn't accept the initial idea of the Metathingamijig, the tessaract HQ from the early stories, or anything else of the sort. Like Pro says, it makes for sloppy, sorry writing that lends itself well to cliches.
We're writing in a team. If you'd like to collaborate on a story, make it a story that just the two of you are writing. Set that in a near-future, alternate timeline whatsit. But don't drag our characters along for the ride without our consent. That's selfish and ostensibly ruins the group dynamic.
I have half a mind to leave altogether, but I know what this group is capable of if we actually WORK TOGETHER! But, that means we need to quit showboating and canonizing our narrow-minded ideas that no one else in the group seems to care about.
Rant off. And, yeah, I'm mildly pissed. Deal.
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...And to all a goodnight.
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My two cents...
I'm pissy and it's not even that time of the month. We need to have this solved by the next story. Period. There will not be another story until we come to agreement. We cannot keep on posting when we're all divided like this. So, as secretary, here are my recommendations:
1. Let's go over all the rules. Let's make sure we all acknowledge them. Not only must we promise to follow those rules, but we must also correct other writers when they make a mistake.
2. Let's agree on the basic plots and situations. Sometimes I wonder if we need a basic goal to improve the round robin technique. "We will write a story that showcases the team's weaknesses while they rebuild after disaster". "We will write a story where the resolution will be Danny leaving the team". There needs to be a target, something for us to aim for. We need to agree on who, what, where, why, and how -- we don't need to agree to all this right at the beginning, but there needs to be some unity. Otherwise, we're just a puddle. Our writings are like water. Without a proper container to give it shape, it just spills on the floor.
3. Does this all seem painfully obvious? Yes. Did it need to be said? Yes.
"You're either lying or stupid."
"I'm stupid! I'm stupid!"
Megatron and Starscream
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Look: it's not the end of the world, folks. If the general consensus is that my ending doesn't work, I'll delete my posts and let the rest of you finish it whichever way you wish. Maybe I'll repost mine and Euro's posts in another thread as the "Director's Cut" or something...
In the end it's just a story... just an idea. I thought it was pretty cool, personally, but besides Euro I seem to be the only one. And don't blame Euro, folks -- he was just following the idea I wanted to do when I began this story. Neither of us really expected this kind of reaction.
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Obviously majority rules, and I will do whatever you want to do.
But I am the most pissed off of you all.
Without even asking me (I don't know if you asked TTT) in a SINGLE post all that was written before had been revealed a dream, with the very out of character thing of having Merlin attacking the heroes when they were still within the boundaries of La Perdita.
I accepted it without ANY resentment, because I really believe it is a group story. But in the group there are also me and TTT, so what we accept from the other, is it hopeful would be also the reverse.
Nothing that has been writter was not real (contrary to how Pro have handed it): everything REALLY happened in the future, and in a parallel dimension, where our heroes fought the resident Strikeforce.
About the Metatithenai: it's not that it is imperative to use it.
MY idea is not to have it as a whole headquarter, but as a simple way to have the various apartment of the heroes connected, so that from Brianna's lighthouse a door opens directly into Griss' penthouse or Ed's restaurant.
And also, from there they can travel to the future, the past, parallel dimensions or any place on Earth.
Is this negating the idea of having them condemned to live the island? No, because they are legally required to stay there. But if we want to do a story where they leave the island undercover, or they want to go in the past or the future for whatever reason we can find... we can.
It's simply a story device. It is usable or not.
You feel it imposed over you? Simply say we don't want it.
But surely no one ever asked me what I would have felt with the destruction of the circus, or TTT about the destruction of the PSI Unit, nor I remember to have ever heard that the complex, an apartment house where a small company of metahumans was living, would have been remade into a hi-tech fortress.
If we really are interested in Vanguard to be an ADVENTURE team, with different kind of stories, I am sure the Metatithenai is cool and useful.
But it's time we really declare what we want to do with Vanguard, because while for years I have been basically the single one poster to clamoring for them to be Superheroes, with costumes, a headqurters and villains to fight, while from the others there was the costant reminder that Vanguard is not about superheroes, is about adventures of different kinds, in the last months, since we where at the middle point of the dark world story, I have seen just interestest into writing fights. There is nothing bad in that, but, please, recognise this and then let's be honest: stories dedicated just to fights needs a team of superheroes, not adventurers.
To be more clear: for me adventurer means writing Doom patrol or Challenger of the Unknow stuff. And I believe the current team is specially geared, character wise, for that.
But if just me and TTT are interested into such sort of things, let's change!
I have no absolute problem to take a completely different direction.
Do you want to concentrate over the Strikeforce plot, do you want Vanguard to be proactive toward resolving the pain in the ass Merlin is giving to them? OK!
But please, let's talk about what we want to do!
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Quote:
The Time Trust said:
The new headquarters gives the team the option to go anywhere in the world if they need to -- beforehand they had no method other than by UFO or plane, which can be detected by satellites, sensors, etc. I have no problem with setting the stories on the island, as long as there's other options. The new HQ gives them that.
Besides, the UN ban is a temporary situation that won't last forever.
 I feel vindicated now.
BTW, did I just see a triple retcon?!? 
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I almost liked the idea we had at the beginning of this story - the island would be a good meeting place for everyone, but everyone didn't have to live there. It was jsut a good centralized (or, as expediency dictated here, de centralized) location for much of the team's assets. Phil and Leslie (and whoever else wanted) could live there and watch over things as needed. That was just the direction I thought we were all going with this. I still think the idea has merit, but I'm up for whatever consensus we reach.
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Okay, I've wrapped up the story. As far as I'm concerned, all the stuff I wrote, except for the last two posts, can be considered "hallucinations" or whatever. Anything else can be left to the next story -- maybe a Christmas story would be good at this point. And since I've written my characters out of the story permanently, they're off-limits from this point on. I'll be using the Metatithenai and my "Neverroom" (the Metatithenai-spawn) in solo stories along with my characters, so they're off-limits as well.
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Quote:
Okay, I've wrapped up the story.
I think the other Vanguard Classic posters should have a say about whether the story is done, as well.
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Quote:
Eurostar said:
Obviously majority rules, and I will do whatever you want to do.
But I am the most pissed off of you all.
Without even asking me (I don't know if you asked TTT) in a SINGLE post all that was written before had been revealed a dream, with the very out of character thing of having Merlin attacking the heroes when they were still within the boundaries of La Perdita.
I realize that this is aimed at me, specifically, so let me respond:
So. Fucking. What.
After having to clean up and adapt to your needs and whims over almost six years, I sincerely don't care if you are offended that I altered the course of the story to better fit the desires of the majority of writers in this group.
1.) Is this a Round-Robin? Are you sure? Because, if it is, then it is the imperative right for any writer to come along and add/create to the plot in whatever way they deem neccessary, as long as the effects do not ruin the fun for the majority.
2.) No one was enjoying the story! Didn't you get the clue when we decided to go a different direction, and everyone started writing again? We need spontanaity and the ability to free-form our own ideas.....not continuously naval-gazing at entrenched continuity.
Quote:
You feel it imposed over you? Simply say we don't want it.
We did. By writing it into a different direction. One that TTT felt the need to contradict. Twice.
Quote:
If we really are interested in Vanguard to be an ADVENTURE team, with different kind of stories, I am sure the Metatithenai is cool and useful.
But it's time we really declare what we want to do with Vanguard, because while for years I have been basically the single one poster to clamoring for them to be Superheroes, with costumes, a headqurters and villains to fight, while from the others there was the costant reminder that Vanguard is not about superheroes, is about adventures of different kinds, in the last months, since we where at the middle point of the dark world story, I have seen just interestest into writing fights. There is nothing bad in that, but, please, recognise this and then let's be honest: stories dedicated just to fights needs a team of superheroes, not adventurers.
To be more clear: for me adventurer means writing Doom patrol or Challenger of the Unknow stuff. And I believe the current team is specially geared, character wise, for that.
But if just me and TTT are interested into such sort of things, let's change!
I have no absolute problem to take a completely different direction.
Do you want to concentrate over the Strikeforce plot, do you want Vanguard to be proactive toward resolving the pain in the ass Merlin is giving to them? OK!
But please, let's talk about what we want to do!
How about we say forget the island, forget the UN stuff, forget the Jack Merlin stuff, forget even the anti-mutant/metahuman stuff, and take this universe into a different direction as a whole?
You want change? Then, let's fucking change.
But, I simply cannot tolerate another moment of regurgitating the uber-detailed landscape of the almighty Vanguard Universe Continuity.
It's time to move on.
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Quote:
Grimm said:
Quote:
Okay, I've wrapped up the story.
I think the other Vanguard Classic posters should have a say about whether the story is done, as well.
You're absolutely right, Grimm. I'll leave it open until someone starts the next story.
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Wow. Killing off Quantos took balls. Technically, by this point in continuity Identify would be finished and Phil would have figured out who he was (one thing Quantos had been playing a role in), but I think I'll go back and rewrite a few chapters to accommodate all this. Nice work all around, everyone.
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Truthfully, I hadn't ever wanted to bring in Quantos to the new universe after I'd killed him off in the old TOMBL universe, but I must admit I've had fun with him. Since he's such a personal character, a personification of human fragility in the face of superhuman power, I'd prefer him to be gone from Vanguard the same time I am.
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Ok, I have all the answer I needed.
The truth here is that some persons could do stuff others are not allowed to do.
I quit.
Bye.
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...I'm sad now.
I can't speak for others, but I know it was never my desire for ANYONE to leave the stories. If an idea ever didn't work for me, I would just have a laugh with it and move on. That's the sole reaction I would have. We're in some weird baby castle thing where there's different realities meeting? Okay, whatever. I'm just going to have some fun and write a Wizard of Oz parody dream sequence. Not to attack anyone, not to disrespect what anyone else has written, but just to have a laugh. I never saw anyone else's ideas and thought "well, now the story is ruined", even if I didn't like the idea (which was rare).
TTT and Euro, again I can't speak for the others, but you're both welcome back into the stories if you ever change your minds (both you as posters and your respective characters).
...you know, I think I'm just surprised that anyone takes the stories seriously enough to get this pissy about it (I'm talking to both sides of the argument here).
Last edited by Danny; 2004-12-22 1:41 PM.
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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I know I'm not a member of VI, but I feel I have to say something.
I, personally, am shocked that anyone would become pissed off to quit. I liked the story the way it was, and certainly never saw this coming. Holy s**t.
Euro, I certainly don't want you to leave. Dammit, you're one of the best writers around, and the world won't be the same without Cicciotto.
Also, if you have left, you've ballsed over the Vanguard Files crossovcer no end. With Rama and Tbird gone, we're gonna have to reconfigure the teams again, and that's gonna be a pain in the ass
OOK OOK ACK EEK!
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Euro, if you feel the need to leave, that's up to you. But, don't act like we've never gone with your ideas before. Ninety-percent of this fucking universe was by your sole whim. The fact that you don't like that we are refusing to go along with you this one time? Tough shit. That's the way a group story works.
So, if you actually leave, take care and good luck. If not, suck it up and learn something.
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I would have liked to go with the bye bye I posted before, but I have shared fun with you guys for so much time that I think you deserve a better exposed explanation for what I feel now.
First, the story:
Although my previous post in this talk thread could have been interpreted as an attack to Pro (and I apologise for that) I accepted his "mind-control" post in the story totally, although it NEGATED what went before. That post said my and TTT' story was false, and whatever reason we had for going in the future was cancelled, yet we accepted it with a smile.
It is like if, in the previous story, I would have, at some point, revealed that Danny was Mimic in disguise. It would have been like at some point of the Dark World story, I would have revealed that they didn't travelled to another dimension, but it was Aurochs that transformed our reality into a Dark World. And since nobody was posting anymore at one point of the story, hence no one was interested, it was as I could have rightfully done it, from your point of view.
What upset me is that my post, that DIDN'T negate anything that happened previously (minus the death of Merlin, that was in the same post) has been received the way has been.
Second, the Metatithenai:
My idea about the Metatithenai was not to give (all of a sudden) a way to have the Vanguardians be free to travel anywhere. The baby Metatithenai created by TTT (and that would have been, being a baby, very inexperienced) would have been just to connect in a weird way rooms in the various homes of the Vanguardians, so that their "headquarters" would have been a virtual one scattered all over the island. With the monitor room in Chewy's penthouse, with the trophy room in Euro's room, the War Room in Phil's villa and such. A setting I found right for the secretive team we were creating.
In no way we would have imposed it over you, but we would have liked to have the chance to expose the idea in the story, and then talks about it in the talk thread and then accept or refuse it.
If accepted, only later, slowly, the baby Metatithenai would have learned to open doors into other parts of the world, the future, the past, alternate dimensions, as any possible story idea would have called for it.
Third, cancelling continuity:
As incredible as it could sound to your ears, Pro, I second your idea to change everything, discarding all the previous established facts (Meta-hate, the Circus, Hoods and Capes, Myrrdin, Strikeforce, Merlin, La Perdita, Manhattan, Mandelovia, Haven). Actually, I would return to the writing only in that case.
In the meantime , have great fun!
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As for me, I'm out of the group stories, but I'm open to collaborations with other writers on a one-on-one basis. This latest gamble of mine has served to show me how different our outlooks are on Vanguard itself and the stories. Mark it up to irreconcilable differences or whatever. I was a lot more upset than I let on in my posts here, but I'm trying to look at this as an opportunity to concentrate less on collaborative stories personally and to instead concentrate on really turning this board into a "Writer's Block".
I haven't abandoned Rama Avatar, BTW. Hopefully he'll return in his own series or perhaps in a series written in collaboration with Euro set in a different universe. If anyone is interested in writing anything with my characters set in the past, you have my permission. And if anyone's interested in working in collaboration with me on a story, I'm open to that. If any ideas for such come to me for just such a story, I'll contact one of you for that, as well.
Meanwhile, I'll be focusing most of my moderating efforts here by giving feedback to stories and writing stories of my own. The best of luck to all of you in both your writing and your own lives.
And have a great Christmas! 
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Just a note to... uh... note that I made a slight but crucial edit to one of my posts: Quote:
At that, Rama Avatar struck the side of Jia's head with the flat of his sword, rendering her unconscious. He then proceeded to slice off each of Jia?s arms and legs with his sword, which flashed green as it cauterized her wounds cleanly, turning her into a harmless amputee. ?Mother of lies,? he muttered under his breath.
Instead of having Jia killed outright, I had Rama knock her unconscious and cut off all of her spider-legs. She's too good a villainess to be gone permanently, and since Ceej created her I figured she'd want to use her again someday. Even though Jia is an amputee -- (what's the actual word for someone who doesn't have any arms or legs, again?) -- it doesn't mean she's out of the "evil biz" forever, as she could return again with cloned or robotic legs, or whatever.
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Actually, I checked back in the story she first appeared. Jia's legs were cut off and she knows they grow back after a few molts/sheddings. So she might be back, though slightly shorter. TTT, props for not killing Jia off. She's a good bitch to keep around.
"You're either lying or stupid."
"I'm stupid! I'm stupid!"
Megatron and Starscream
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Quote:
Chewy Walrus said:
Octopalegic.
..."torso".
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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Oh, and... Robo Squirrel's officially on the team! YEAH!
Thing is- I can’t spell or type. I spell so badly my spell check doesn’t even know what I was trying to spell. And I have five Eisners HAHAHAHHA!!
-Brian Michael Bendis
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Huzzah! I'm shivering with antici..
...pation.
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I've got one more post to do, and I'll be finished with #18. Just didn't have time to cram it all down in one post today... 
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
I've got one more post to do, and I'll be finished with #18. Just didn't have time to cram it all down in one post today...
You know, it scares me how well you know everyone's characters.
"You're either lying or stupid."
"I'm stupid! I'm stupid!"
Megatron and Starscream
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Agreed! Brilliant, Pro! Can't wait to see what else you've got brewing in that pointy little head of yours...
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Regenerated 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385 Likes: 4 |
...... pointy? Thanks, one and all. I'll try to tie it all up tonight....
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385 Likes: 4
Regenerated 15000+ posts
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Regenerated 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385 Likes: 4 |
Okay, I know I said I could tie it up in one post, but, I suck. And, since I'm trying to gel this character in as naturally as possible (instead of "Oh look, a new member!"), I need one more post to give him his name.
Sorry....
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 980
500+ posts
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500+ posts
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 980 |
Have you ever looked into a mirror and wondered if behind it was another world, the same... but totally different?- Reflection (2002) UTOPIAN PRODUCTIONS
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385 Likes: 4
Regenerated 15000+ posts
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Regenerated 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 33,385 Likes: 4 |
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