RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Writer's Block Vanguard#18 Talk Thread

Nice work, guys!

Anything specific, or, do you mean as a whole?

Anyway, done and done. My guy has a name and a face. Thanks for being patient.

Well done, Pro. And, Ceej... I'm loving the 'Girls of Vanguard' calendar! Well done indeed!

You guys done with 18? Let me know when you're ready to shut it down.

Happy New Year to everybody!

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year!

By the way, I was gonna join Vanguard International, but I'm not sure how to do that. I was gonna introduce myself at the end of this story, but then it all got kinda weird and I lost track of things. What exactly has happened, and do you think it would be better to intro my guy at the start of the next story?

You can intro your character essentially at your leisure. Bottom of this one or top of the next, it really doesn't matter much to us. Just jump on in somewheres...

Crap... I forgot I wrote that. I'll try posting something before the weekend is over.

Chewy, you stun me. That was a genuinely moving post. I can't say enough good things about it. The 'age' angle is a perfect concept to play off Montag in a scene like that. The understanding of how you, and the rest of us, have altered the character bit by bit since you brought him in, and the reasoning behind it is brilliant.

And, of course, I loved all the lines. You say I have an unhealthy fascination with basing Ozzy's physicality off of Bruce Willis? Now, I can't stop seeing Harrison Ford as Montag.....

Bravo.

No, Pro, I say you have an unhealthy fascination with Bruce Willis. And Mel Gibson, too, for that matter.

Chewy, fantastic, and well worth waiting for. Loved it.

Btw, since only Chewy responded that he had something else to post in the two weeks since I asked if you were done and he's now posted, I closed down that story. Feel free to do whatever. You know my opinion on what you need to do.

Hey, we should have a character that resembles Mel Gibson. Hehehe...

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Prometheus said:
Now, I can't stop seeing Harrison Ford as Montag.

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We're talking Harrison Ford like ten years ago, right? Not bad-hair-earring-mid-life-crisis-very-close-to-being-taken-off-the-Cowboy-list Ford? Oh well, I still have my picture of Indiana Jones on my living room wall...

Chewy, fantastic post. I am amazed.

Listen, I cast actors as my characters. It's just that simple. When I write, it helps me to have a visual reference in my head to go by. That's why Eddie Izzard (see avatar) is Ian, Bruce Willis is Ozzy, and Billy Zane is Turkish. Prometheus and Foreman are the only two characters I've melded together in my head as being parts of many actors.

And you know, it's suprising that I haven't created a character based off Mel Gibson......hmmmmm........

So - who's got dibs on the next story?

Hell, I'll start the next story, unless someone has a plot they want to do specifically. I have no real notion of a story. But, I could give it a push into a direction, and all. But, if someone has already called it, or, has a story they are dying to do, go for it....

Go ahead and do it, Pro. We trust you.

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Prometheus said:
Chewy, you stun me. That was a genuinely moving post. I can't say enough good things about it. The 'age' angle is a perfect concept to play off Montag in a scene like that. The understanding of how you, and the rest of us, have altered the character bit by bit since you brought him in, and the reasoning behind it is brilliant.

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Grimm said:
Chewy, fantastic, and well worth waiting for. Loved it.

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Eurostar said:
Chewy, fantastic post. I am amazed.

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Thanks, all. I'm glad you enjoyed it. It's been really fun evolving the character into the man he is... which is ironic, since I really started writing him to be an incorrigible character. I'm really glad you guys enjoy him and enjoy writing him. Means I've done something right. So... thank you.

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Prometheus said:
Now, I can't stop seeing Harrison Ford as Montag.....

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Well, Indiana Jones was one of the character inspirations...

Ok, I didn't wanna say anything, but the end of the Murder Mystery will present a great oportunity for a change of direction for VI. I have two potential endings (or epilogues, rather), depending on what you guys decide to do.

One is VI's name getting cleared and its members getting offered to become the new Strikeforce. I personally would like to try this, since we have VE for more realistic stories and I would like to write an Authority-type team (superhero is such a dirty word) to keep a balance...

The other option is the UN hunting down VI for disrespecting the ban during MM (like Danny suggested), and using the Strikeforce to do it. Don't worry about the apparent contradiction (the SF working alongside VI in MM and fighting it right after), I have that covered.

So... how does this sound? I'm bringing this up now because if you guys like any of the two ideas you'd have to wait until MM is over to start the new VI story, since the ending of MM would determine the team's future.

I don't mind waiting if that is what everyone wants. Whatever the majority rules....

I think there could be also a third option, that is to have the Strikeforce (now aware of Merlin's lies) to ally with Vanguard to fight a UN sponsored coalition of conventional and metahuman forces sent to invade La Perdita and capture the Vanguardians (for having breaked the ban).

With Merlin dead, and the lies exposed, this Strikeforce made of good guys (minus ACK) wouldn't (character-wise) attack Vanguard anymore, at least in my and TTT original vision.

Also, in his posts about the squirrel, Danny has not tied him clearly to the Strikeforce, while we saw him controlled just by some UN officers.

Well, I considered that, but to tell you the truth I haven't picked up much enthusiasm regarding the Strikeforce, so what I'm setting in motion is that we either replace them (the take over) or get rid of them (the fight), since they currently have no purpose in the Vanguard universe (especially now that Merlin is dead). And, as I said before, I have the contradiction covered. They're soldiers and they'll do what they're ordered to do even if they don't want to.

Though if team up with them against the UN is what most want to do, of course we should go that way. I just doubt that's the case.

Personally, I wouldn't mind just forgetting the whole Strikeforce thing altogether. It's just more continuity that new members would have to be conscious of, which is something that we've talked a lot about.

I personally don't want to see Vanguard become Strikeforce... but I also don't really want to digress to the 'hunted' storylines of the early days. In my mind, that would just be a big step back. I'm willing to go with MAJORITY, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of Grimm, Ceej, Sammitch, and Danny (maybe even Doc?) before coming to an actual decision.

And, for right now, we can just consider the MM the "current" story, and start the next one whenever we finish and reach a consensus....

Yesh.

I don't have problems with any direction the team might take and I'd bring back my character next issue anyway, but I'd like to submit my vote for VI taking over the Strikeforce.

The rest...?

Chewy, you said what directions you wouldn't like the team to take, but not which ones you'd like. I understand you're willing to go with the general consensus, but I think we all are. So... what would you enjoy the most? You're vote is as important as any other.

I know you asked Chewy, but in my opinion, even if the UN isn't actively keeping VI down, the world is still wary of VI. I personally don't see them replacing the Strikeforce or being fully accepted as long as the business in Manhattan is going on. Just my opinion.

I was asking everyone really. And, again, you just said what you don't want and not what you do want.

Anyway, I don't think we should let stuff like that stop us. If we really want to go in one direction we can figure out how to sort details (at least from my point of view) like that. For example: taking care of the MBL would make an approapiate first mission, and it would give VI the credibility it needs. In fact, I think that's what Grimm and Doc had in mind when they started the MBL business.

I am not a Vanguard member, but I can talk from the Strikeforce side, and I strongly disagree that, once its members have been made aware that Merlin was a liar and Vanguard are good guys, they would still hunt them.

This incarnation of the Strikeforce is NOT made of soldier. They are superheroes with personal lifes and occupations, that, just like the JLA, meets on a satellite for preparing missions. It has been explained in the O issue of Strikeforce 3 the reasoning of Merlin for creating a force that was indipendent and not submitted directly to him.

It is the death of Merlin to made impractical to have the Strikeforce (this Strikeforce) be a pawn of the UN for fighting Vanguard. To do Danny's story, even without the partecipation of the Strikefocers, it would be better to have a different kind of UN coalition to attack Vanguard. But without Merlin, I really I don't see the point.

If there is no interest into having Vanguard replacing the Strikeforce, possibly taking some members of it into its ranks, I don't see a reason for which the Strikeforce should survive, personally I am sure it would be better to simply disband it.

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Regarding Mxy's question, I am for Vanguard replacing Strikeforce.

Merlin's files contain the proofs that it was Vanguard to save the world from Naecken. that would be enough, in my mind, to change the mind of the majority of UN countries to gave the role that previously was of the Strikeforce to Vanguard.

The Manhattan situation, though, would still be off limits to them until the UN keep the recognition of manhattan as an indipendent nation, a fact that, unless I am wrong, was estabilished in Doc's story.

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If really there is consensus over the need to do a story where THIS Strikeforce fights Vanguard, from my point of view it could only be done using the cold-blooded killing of Hero by Grimm (that was not an invention of Merlin, and it is something that went against the Geneva convention) as an excuse. Over that, the Strikeforcers should "attack" Vanguard even if they have become buddy.

But, as Grimm once suggested, it would be cool if that story would be a trial in court, and not another fight of superteams. Over that, having Danny Hearn having bypassed the UN ban would be just an additional "crime" to be addressed at Vanguard.

The outcome of that trial, with Vanguard cleared of the accusation of being the evil MBL, and the secret files of Merlin made public, revealing that the planet was saved from Naecken by Vanguard, would be the birth of the new incarnation of the team.

About the public acceptance of metahumans, that depends simply by us writers: the occasion of the trial could be the one after which meta-discrimination is banned; else, the Manhattan scenario could be used to keep the hate for metas high in the world, even with a UN founded Vanguard as a global protectorate. It really depends just from us, and from what we want.

Okay, you need to understand that Grimm is not part of Vanguard, and is only appearing in the MM story as a favor to Mxy. So let's get that clear up front. Once it's over, he's gone.

Euro, I think it's useless to discuss how practical or impractical an idea is right now. The way I look at it, first we decide what we want to do, then how we do it, because it's more important to enjoy ourselves than to respect continuity or whatever. There's always a way something can be arranged: for example you gave a reasonable explanation for the Strikeforce to fight Vanguard yourself in the last part of your post, and I could think of a dozen more in ten seconds.

If you don't want the Strikeforce to fight Vanguard, then just say that.

I officially don't care.

I would like to have the MBL attacked by someone over this UN business because it would enable me to do something I really wanna do. But I can work with whatever the group wants.

Post deleted by Eurostar

A suggestion:

for once, let's really don't care about continuity, and have Danny's story about the enforcement of the ban right now, writing it at the same time of the murder story.

That way, the Murder story would be unrestrained by previously estabilished outcomes, being free to fly toward unexpected paths.