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BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS Teacher to class: 'F--- God'College says professor owes Christian student apology August 26, 2004, 1:00 a.m. Eastern Does academic freedom allow college professors to offend their students with profanity? The question is coming up in Illinois, as an instructor is under fire for displaying the message "F--- God" to his class. Bruce LeBlanc, shown here in 2002, allegedly used his blackboards for profane message  According to the Moline Dispatch, Bob Stotler, a 30-year-old student at Black Hawk College, filed a complaint after his sociology teacher, Bruce LeBlanc, displayed the two-word statement. LeBlanc reportedly revealed two blackboards at the front of his class, with the F-word written on the left one and "God" written on the right one. "I don't even remember what went on for the rest of the class," Stotler told the Dispatch, saying he was too upset to pay further attention. Stotler says LeBlanc had confronted him about being Christian, conservative and Republican on his first day in class in January. "He's a lot liberal, and I'm a lot conservative," Stotler said. "He was preaching his leftist ideas like they were facts." The college's advisory committee has issued a report based on Stotler's complaint, finding LeBlanc violated the school's harassment policy, noting the conduct "shows hostility or aversion toward an individual because of his/her religion." In addition, the committee said LeBlanc violated the policy "in that he engaged in negative stereotyping of the complainant, Mr. Stotler, on the first day of class when he made an assumptive comment about the student's religious beliefs during class.'' The report recommends LeBlanc apologize to Stotler and meet with a dean of the school to review the class syllabus and analyze the complexity of the language used. LeBlanc told the Dispatch he can't comment while he's "challenging the action through the collective-bargaining agreement." But two years ago, he discussed academic freedom with the paper, noting it gives professors a chance to provide information in a way that addresses classroom dynamics. "Dynamics can range from conservative students who need a push to open their minds to other possibilities to extremely liberal students who need to examine more conservative approaches," noted the paper of LeBlanc's comments. "From an institutional perspective, Black Hawk College's board of trustees and administrators value academic freedom, and students get a high quality educational experience," LeBlanc said in 2002.  According to the college's website, LeBlanc is a professor of psychology as well as sociology, and is also a member of its speaker's bureau. Among LeBlanc's presentations is one called "Sexual Minorities: The Science of Sexual Orientation," which explores the science of sexual orientation and its application to the current debates regarding sexual minorities. Karen Harris, a psychology professor who is president of the Western Illinois University chapter of the University Professors of Illinois, told the Dispatch while professors rely on academic freedom to engage students, teachers should be careful not to go too far. "As professionals we have a responsibility, and it's a delicate line we walk between stirring emotions and fulfilling our professional responsibility, which is to contribute to the educational process," she said.
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This is far more common then most would admit.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Ah, yes. "Shock-Jock" teaching. While I applaud the idea behind wanting to broaden and expand student's minds, this teacher needs to be smacked in the mouth a few times. It's one thing to have your own beliefs, and to stick by them. That's perfectly acceptable. And, given just the "Fuck God" statement, it could slide as a creative approach. However, if this guy is harrassing his students, or, singling out one student because of his personal religious or political beliefs, then he doesn't need to be in a position where objective viewpoints are required. This would be just as bad if he had selected out a single Aethist, and proclaimed that the Christian God is the only God, and that aethism is wrong.
What a putz.
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Quote:
This would be just as bad if he had selected out a single Aethist, and proclaimed that the Christian God is the only God, and that aethism is wrong.
This wouldn't so much be that bad or comprable, unless the teacher said something along the lines of athiests were stupid...., but I get your point. Also it's very hard to be a conservitive Chritian in University these days and I have countless friends who have had thier grades adversely effected by being openly conservitive. Even my liberal Chritian sister in law got showted down simply for asking for clarification, because the teacher though she was challenging her premise. I alwayse advise a "Fake it till you make it approach" Wich is to shut up untill you get your Bachelors degree then fight it out in grad school.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Man, I wish I knew the unversitities your friends go to.
It's the exact opposite here.
Maybe everyone just thinks wherever they are that they're an outcast and that people judge them unfairly.
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I'm pretty sure polls would show a VAST majority of University profs are liberal.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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It brings back memories from when I did the college thing. In general I found myself trying to adjust to whoever was standing in front. (shameless grade grubber up to a point) I actually had one excercise/test to find out how liberal/conservative you were and I ended up slightly conservative. Me! I dropped that class because of similar types of things.
Fair play!
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Ok...that really doesn't have much to do with what I'm talking about, though(unless polls also say a majority of professors grade students who don't share their political stance poorly).
From what I recall CJ saying about her experiences in schools growing up, she felt it was difficult being conservative.
Despite being in a regionally close area, my feelings about the school system growing up was the exact opposite.
It's all relative.
Frankly, I always went out of my way to combat my teachers, and to disagree with whatever stance they took(or question their objectivity of they took none), and they usually liked that about me...
I also had a lot more religious conservative teachers than non-religious conservative teachers, though.
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...but they probably won't renew this guy's tenure.
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"Hey, Mole, be careful."
"Careful? Was my mother careful when she stabbed me in the heart with a clothes hanger while I was still in the womb."
Classic.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
Does academic freedom allow college professors to offend their students with profanity?
The question is coming up in Illinois, as an instructor is under fire for displaying the message "F--- God" to his class.
If this guy gets in trouble, then the Academic Process in America is probably dead and I should tell my kids to go to college abroad.
Jim
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Chris Oakley said:
...but they probably won't renew this guy's tenure.
If he has tenure, as I understand the tenure process (my friend just earned it at Ohio State this summer), it's irrevocalbe unless you can prove some sort of malfeasance.
Jim
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Wednesday said:
BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
Does academic freedom allow college professors to offend their students with profanity?
The question is coming up in Illinois, as an instructor is under fire for displaying the message "F--- God" to his class.
If this guy gets in trouble, then the Academic Process in America is probably dead and I should tell my kids to go to college abroad.
Jim
Tenure should allow for proffessors to bring forth ideas that may fit outside of the mainstream and start discussion and debat. It should not be used as a shield to lash out and attack beliefs that he disagrees with. LeBlanc used his tenure to attack a student's beliefs and the student himself. That is not what tenure is for, and it should not be allowed.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
If this guy gets in trouble, then the Academic Process in America is probably dead and I should tell my kids to go to college abroad.
Jim
I agree.
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Doog the MIGHTY 10000+ posts
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
Tenure should allow for proffessors to bring forth ideas that may fit outside of the mainstream and start discussion and debat. It should not be used as a shield to lash out and attack beliefs that he disagrees with. LeBlanc used his tenure to attack a student's beliefs and the student himself. That is not what tenure is for, and it should not be allowed.
From the Quad-City Times online newspaper...
Quote:
In our library archives, I found a 6-year-old story about professor LeBlanc. It listed his multiple college degrees, including his doctorate in education. It told how he’d worked as a probation officer and juvenile counselor.
And it disclosed that he is an ordained minister in the Ecumenical Catholic Church, was a Roman Catholic monk as a young man and dreamed of being a Roman Catholic priest but refused to hide the fact that he’s gay.
why would he attack somebodies Christian beliefs that he probably shares? That being said, I still think he used bad judgement in putting those words on the black boards.
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The initial article, the one I posted, is biased and presents a skewed vision of the facts.
The article says he presented the message "Fuck God" to the class. I've been following this story, though, and Stupid Dogg's article is one of a number that point out...
Quote:
QuadCityTimes said:
Black Hawk College professor Bruce LeBlanc was giving a lesson on the power of symbols and asked his sociology students to pay close attention to their reactions as he wrote two of the most powerful words in our language on the neighboring chalkboards.
The idea was for the students to observe how people connect words, even when they’re not connected. The exercise worked a little too well.
That's completely different than what the initial article states. The message was not "Fuck God." The professor told his students beforehand that he was going to write two unrelated words on two different chalkboards. LeBlanc told his students that it was an exercise to observe how people connect words that are not connected.
But how could we expect the student who wrote him up to know that when:
Quote:
WorldNetDaily said:
"I don't even remember what went on for the rest of the class," Stotler told the Dispatch, saying he was too upset to pay further attention.
Also...
Quote:
thedoctor said:
Tenure should allow for proffessors to bring forth ideas that may fit outside of the mainstream and start discussion and debat. It should not be used as a shield to lash out and attack beliefs that he disagrees with. LeBlanc used his tenure to attack a student's beliefs and the student himself. That is not what tenure is for, and it should not be allowed.
Says who? First, the student says he was confronted by the professor on the first day. Being confronted and being attacked are two different things. As you said, professors should be allowed "to bring forth ideas that may fit outside of the mainstream and start discussion and debate." As a student I can attest to the fact that confronting students about their beliefs is one very positive way of doing that, and that's exactly what LeBlanc did. The student himself admits that.
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Any student who feels his/her beliefs attacked is able to drop the class.
Tenure can protect academic freedom. Tenure can also be a shield for a bad teacher. Each situation has to be evaluated individually. But challenging a kid's beliefs in class, even if it's to say "Fuck God" and mean "fuck God," then that's OK. If the teacher has a reason for it.
JJ
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I know Wednesday just brought this up, but yeah: Quote:
"I don't even remember what went on for the rest of the class," Stotler told the Dispatch, saying he was too upset to pay further attention.
Maybe if the kid HAD paid attention he would have learned something.
Now, this is just a blanket statement but most philosophy and religion courses I've taken have had the narrowest minds in the heads of Christians. For the final in a comparitive religions class we had to write an essay about the beliefs and practices of a religion different than our own. You know, to open our minds and stuff. And half the class was Christian. One said, "I'm catholic, can I do my report on Prodistants?"
....some people don't deserve school.
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Quote:
Any student who feels his/her beliefs attacked is able to drop the class.
The best way to get conservitives out is to drive them out, eh?
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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in my eyes, there're two issues in this thread that have divided the responses: that the teacher made a shocking statement, and that the teacher made a shocking statement relating to religion.
people tend to take varied viewpoints when it comes to religion, versus a viewpoint they'd have when it comes to, say, race or sexual proclivity. this debate would have entirely different reactions if the words in question were not "fuck god" but, say, "fuck chinks"
in the "fuck god" instance, the microcosmic view tends to feature the more religious or conservative who view this as obscene, and the more liberal who view this as educational or mind-broadening.
conversely, were the message "fuck fags," it'd be the more liberal individuals forming the movement against the teacher.
the whole argument, in my mind, comes down to two things: (1) my oft-referenced belief that no one really wants freedom of speech, just freedom of their speech.
(2) more pertinent to this topic, the teacher simply used bad judgement. i, personally, don't have any problem with what he did, especially when noting the quotes from other article wednesday pointed out. but there's a distinct difference between broadening your classes collective minds and making them feel uncomfortable.
things are only offensive if someone is offended -- and if the teacher can not, for certain, know that his class will be ok with a topic, it should be handled a lot more delicately.
the same message could have gotten across were it presented with more tact -- perhaps even leading to the exact example being used, if only after a little "warm up."
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
in the "fuck god" instance, the microcosmic view tends to feature the more religious or conservative who view this as obscene, and the more liberal who view this as educational or mind-broadening.
Quote:
Originally spoken by Barak Obama
The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats.But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.
Talk about making sweeping (and completely unfair) generalizations! You usually try to talk as if you're a fair minded person Rob, but every once in a while you slip up and reveal what your biases and (unfounded) beleifs really are. "Liberals" go to church too mister. I use "liberals" in quotations since in these debates, i'm not sure if people mean a real honest to gob liberal or just a Democrat.
Instead of "liberal" the fair and appropriate word would be atheist, evolutionist, or just intellectual. Of which they come in all or no political affiliations.
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Long post ahead. Feel free to ignore it. It's just more left-wing nut job blah, blah, blah anyway: Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
in my eyes, there're two issues in this thread that have divided the responses: that the teacher made a shocking statement, and that the teacher made a shocking statement relating to religion.
people tend to take varied viewpoints when it comes to religion, versus a viewpoint they'd have when it comes to, say, race or sexual proclivity. this debate would have entirely different reactions if the words in question were not "fuck god" but, say, "fuck chinks"
in the "fuck god" instance, the microcosmic view tends to feature the more religious or conservative who view this as obscene, and the more liberal who view this as educational or mind-broadening.
I can't speak for the other liberals on this board, but my point was not that "Fuck God" is educational or mind-broadening. My point was that the words were written separately. Again...
Quote:
QuadCityTimes said:
Black Hawk College professor Bruce LeBlanc was giving a lesson on the power of symbols and asked his sociology students to pay close attention to their reactions as he wrote two of the most powerful words in our language on the neighboring chalkboards.
The idea was for the students to observe how people connect words, even when they’re not connected. The exercise worked a little too well.
The words were not connected, and I blame the student for either not paying enough attention or assigning his own meaning and creating a message that wasn't there despite warnings to the contrary.
Also, the student apparently had it in his head based on an earlier confrontation that the professor was using the class to push a left-wing agenda. I tend to be wary of biased accounts.
If he wrote the phrase "Fuck God"... two words together, without ample warning, I would think differently. That would be like telling a crowd of paying patrons that you support Michael Moore's F-9/11.
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
conversely, were the message "fuck fags," it'd be the more liberal individuals forming the movement against the teacher.
The professor is gay.
It really wouldn't affect my argument as long as he kept the words separate. Personally, I'd like to think it would have little affect on me as a student no matter what the words were. A little kink in my liberality, if that's a word.
If I've learned anything from my time in the Navy + my time on these boards, it's that words don't mean much. Too much stupidity and insanity in this world to think otherwise. Great Zombie Jesus, bitch, it's Gay Niggers From Outer Space!
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
the whole argument, in my mind, comes down to two things: (1) my oft-referenced belief that no one really wants freedom of speech, just freedom of their speech.
(2) more pertinent to this topic, the teacher simply used bad judgement. i, personally, don't have any problem with what he did, especially when noting the quotes from other article wednesday pointed out. but there's a distinct difference between broadening your classes collective minds and making them feel uncomfortable.
Agreed, though their discomfort was his point.
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
things are only offensive if someone is offended -- and if the teacher can not, for certain, know that his class will be ok with a topic, it should be handled a lot more delicately.
the same message could have gotten across were it presented with more tact -- perhaps even leading to the exact example being used, if only after a little "warm up."
True. We know he gave them warning, but he could have given them a few warm up word pairs first. On the other hand, we don't know for certain that he didn't.
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Hey, I had a college prof once who passed around a picture of a little black boy and a little blonde girl sitting together in a church pew. In the picture, they look all solemn as they both pass the fattest doobie i've ever seen.
Rastafarians you see.
He wanted to get our reactions in seeing something that we're drilled in our culture to think as being WRONG in a setting that if it were a communion wafer or something else, we'd probably be saying "awwww, how cute". But since we're taught that drugs are evil, drugs are wrong, we'd probably react with horror at seeing 2 kids passing a fat joint.
IMO, things like that are not to "push a "liberal" agenda, but to teach you that social mores are different the world over and that your own beleifs aern't absolute and right, just what you've been taught. In other words, to see past yourself and your own biases and learn something new about other peoples and cultures. Which is what education is all about.
This is what the story reminded me of.
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Quote:
whomod said:
Talk about making sweeping (and completely unfair) generalizations! You usually try to talk as if you're a fair minded person Rob, but every once in a while you slip up and reveal what your biases and (unfounded) beleifs really are. "Liberals" go to church too mister. I use "liberals" in quotations since in these debates, i'm not sure if people mean a real honest to gob liberal or just a Democrat.
please note, i meant my above post in general terms.
if i didn't make it obvious enough for your tastes, then i'll try to overly stress that here: i wasn't refering to every liberal who ever existed. rather, i was speaking in the terms of general stereotypes that society permits.
just as you readily accept that, generally, conservatives are all nutty for religion, the opposite of that equation holds true, as logic (or at least the logic of stereotypes) would dictate.
one direction isn't more forgiving or all-including as the other, and to readily accept one half of that equation, but not the other, is silly.
if you want to change the specified word useage, please feel free. i meant no targetting offense in my statements, and don't want my point twisted because of a perceived bias. however, i hope you freely note that the reverse of your word selection will have to reflect those changes.
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
I can't speak for the other liberals on this board, but my point was not that "Fuck God" is educational or mind-broadening. My point was that the words were written separately.
and i agree, don't get me wrong.
however, my point was that "god" was used at all. in reading through this thread (and using that as a basis to garner general reaction), its clear to see that "god" and any form of attack and/or defense of religion, seems to generate a different reaction in people which, i felt, was detracting (and destracting) from the debate of the teacher and his actions, right or wrong.
Quote:
Wednesday said:
The words were not connected, and I blame the student for either not paying enough attention or assigning his own meaning and creating a message that wasn't there despite warnings to the contrary.
though i do agree with that notion, if i had to pick, i'd say the teacher is more responsible for steering his students, rather than the opposite.
the subject matter and forms of its presentation are the teacher's decision, and if something isn't made well or clear enough, i don't think the student should be held responsible.
Quote:
Wednesday said:
Also, the student apparently had it in his head based on an earlier confrontation that the professor was using the class to push a left-wing agenda. I tend to be wary of biased accounts.
point.
Quote:
Wednesday said:
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
conversely, were the message "fuck fags," it'd be the more liberal individuals forming the movement against the teacher.
The professor is gay. It really wouldn't affect my argument as long as he kept the words separate. Personally, I'd like to think it would have little affect on me as a student no matter what the words were. A little kink in my liberality, if that's a word.
very well. if "fuck chinks" was his display. or "fuck america" or "fuck bush" or "fuck blacks" or "fuck muslims" or "fuck sarah" or whatever.
i was trying to say that what he wrote would have a different affect on different people -- in this case, it just happened to be religion-based.
Quote:
Wednesday said:
If I've learned anything from my time in the Navy + my time on these boards, it's that words don't mean much. Too much stupidity and insanity in this world to think otherwise. Great Zombie Jesus, bitch, it's Gay Niggers From Outer Space!
i tend to agree with you. ... but thats a personal issue, and something you've had time to come to terms with.
"nigger," for example, has such a wide range of reactions for blacks, whites, women, older people, younger people, etc. phrasing that might be acceptible to you and me is still so "out there" that its reaction is indeterminable.
had the professor chosen "fuck niggers" on his black board, the debate would take a whole different turn -- and i'd still clearly hold the teacher responsible.
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Quote:
or just intellectual.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Gay Niggers From Outer Space!
That'll be the subject of my new erotic story.
FREE SCOTT PETERSON!
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faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 Likes: 1 |
Rob sez: "though i do agree with that notion, if i had to pick, i'd say the teacher is more responsible for steering his students, rather than the opposite.
the subject matter and forms of its presentation are the teacher's decision, and if something isn't made well or clear enough, i don't think the student should be held responsible."
So the teacher is responsable for his college level adult students not being able to:
1) listen to his lecture introductions
2) patiently listen to another persons opposing point of view to completion before jumping to conclusions (which, by the way, is one of the seven habits of highly effective people - seek first to understand, then to be understood. I had to read that book in sixth grade.)
Certainly there is the technicality of not explaining clearly. However, as we were not there, this cannot even be discussed. It's all subjective anyhow. What is an agonizingly redundant and cautious speach boring one person to tears is hardly enough to prepare the next student for what's coming. Psychology, sociology and philosophy courses are intended to ask the difficult questions. They are supposed to remove you from your rut of comfortable thought and expose the student to another point of view. We pay hundreds of dollars for a course to do that. I find the student to be lacking in his understanding of how college works and what it means to learn and broaden your mind.
I disagree with you and I think the student should be held responsable for his inadequacies. He needed that lesson more than probably anyone else in that classroom and he turned a deaf ear. He is a fool. Even his God tells him that in his Bible.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 Likes: 1
faggot 15000+ posts
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faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 Likes: 1 |
"if i had to pick, i'd say the teacher is more responsible for steering his students, rather than the opposite."
This line (I forgot to include this above) is really puttin' bugs in my shorts. What do you classify as the opposite then? Is the teacher more responsable for steering his students than they are of steering themselves? Granted teachers wield a great power over their students and a massive responsability due to their work guiding the formation of a person's mind. However, is that to say a person has no personal responsability for what they accept and reject? Especially at the college level I would expect, rather demand a person be capable of self thought.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896 |
Quote:
JQ said:
Quote:
Gay Niggers From Outer Space!
That'll be the subject of my new erotic story.
I saw that movie stoned once. DAMN. S'all I can say.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
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The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
Eh, these are all good arguments, but I, myself, still really don't see how the teach could put those two words in those spots and not have an agenda or even not think about what it could do.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 Likes: 1
faggot 15000+ posts
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faggot 15000+ posts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 24,106 Likes: 1 |
A professor did something very similar in one of my classes a few times. He was an edgy guy always trying to give us hard questions. No problems, just damn enjoyable school.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
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The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
Are you saying that was this teacher's plan?
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896 |
I don't know what the circumstances of situation were, but I think the teacher being fired(or asked to resign, or just "let go") for this is pretty lame. There are shock-teachers everywhere.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
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The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
Yeah, I don't think he should been fired myself.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896 |
On a personal note, I say fuck god a lot. That asshole really pisses me off sometimes.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
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The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
If you wish to believe he caused your woes.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896
10000+ posts
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10000+ posts
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 14,896 |
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
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The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
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