#34497
2003-07-26 3:20 AM
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Probably should've started a thread for this long ago, but here it is now. This offseason has seen one hell of a shift in the balance of power--maybe. Actually, it really appears that the best players of the middling teams have stacked up on the elite teams, but nevertheless this has been one active(and odd) offseason for the NBA. Free agents: - Scottie Pippen signed with the Chicago Bulls
- Ira Newble and Kevin Ollie signed with the Cleveland Cavaliers
- Speedy Claxton signed with the Golden State Warriors
- Karl Malone and Gary Payton signed with the LA Lakers
- Michael Olowakandi signed with the Minnesota Timberwolves
- Alonzo Mourning signed with the New Jersey Nets
- Juwan Howard and Tyronn Lue signed with the Orlando Magic
- Robert Horry and Rasho Nesterovic signed with the San Antonio Spurs
- Antonio Daniels signed with the Seattle SuperSonics
- Corey Maggete signed offer sheet with the Utah Jazz but the Clippers say they intend to match it
- Gilbert Arenas signed offer sheet with the Washington Wizards and appears to be headed there
- James Posey signed offer sheet with the Memphis Grizzlies and appears to be headed there
- Andre Miller signed offer sheet with the Denver Nuggets and appears to be headed there
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#34498
2003-07-26 3:23 AM
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Key re-signings: - Elton Brand with the LA Clippers(poor guy)
- Jermaine O'Neal with the Indiana Pacers
- Jason Kidd with the New Jersey Nets
- P.J. Brown with the N'ahleans Hornets
- Kenny Thomas with the Philadelphia 76ers
- Tim Duncan with the San Antonio Spurs
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#34499
2003-07-26 3:32 AM
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There were also two big trades in the past few days:
4 team trade:
Terrell Brandon and a first round pick to Atlanta
Glenn Robinson and Marc Jackson to Philadelphia
Keith Van Horne to the New York Knicks
Latrell Sprewell to Minnesota(the T-Wolves also got Sam Cassell in a trade with Milwaukee a month or so ago)
And a 3 team trade:
Brad Miller to the Sacramento Kings
Scot Pollard and Danny Ferry to the Indiana Pacers
Hedo Turkoglu and Ron Mercer to the San Antonio Spurs
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#34500
2003-07-26 4:25 AM
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The police blotter's getting full too.
Damon Stoudamire pleads innocent to drug possesion.
Jerry Stackhouse charges with striking a female police officer.
Gary Payton and Sam Cassell charged with assault.
And then there is Kobe......
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#34501
2003-07-26 12:13 PM
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The trades have been puzzling to me. While the 4-teamer makes some sense(NY had to get rid of Spree, Atlanta wanted cap space, Minnesota and Philly wanted scorers), it seems a little uneven. The 3-teamer is a complete joke. San Antonio gives up Danny Ferry, and gets Ron Mercer and Hedo Turkoglu? Sacremento gets Brad Miller? Naturally, as a Dallas fan, my first reaction to this is that Indiana just said "how can we fuck Dallas the hardest?"
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#34502
2003-07-26 8:54 PM
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Posts: 14
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I was confused by that 3 team trade too, but I'm a Spurs fan, so I was all for it. ![[biiiig grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
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#34503
2003-07-28 7:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,746
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I'm a Bulls fan, so basketball has become kind of irrelevant the last few years...
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#34504
2003-07-28 10:28 PM
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Even now? I'd be peeing my pants with excitement if I was a Bulls fan. Krause is gone, they're stocked with good young players, and now Pippen's back. Hell, I almost like this new Bulls team as much as I like my Mavericks.
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#34505
2003-07-29 12:48 PM
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I love the way the Bulls are looking, too. As much as Krause is (unjustly, I think) hated, one thing that can't be denied is he appears to have found three real deals in Crawford, Curry and Chandler. Now with Pippen, I really think the Bulls should make the playoffs this year.
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#34506
2003-07-29 6:24 PM
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I would never doubt Krause's eye for talent....but the man dismantled one of the greatest teams in sports history, then, after it looked like they might be on the way back, traded away all the talent again. I would wager that, had he still been in charge, he would have traded at least one of the 3 C's(Curry, Chandler, Crawford) this offseason. He's insane.
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#34507
2003-07-29 7:20 PM
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Then he's not the only one. Every stinking newspaper in Chicago was demanding during the season that Krause traded at least one, in most cases two, of those 3 for veterans. Krause even presented Sam Smith with a "Monday morning GM" card because every week, Smith would come up with a wild trade scenario, most commonly trading both Crawford and Chandler, for whatever they could get. My favorite was "Now that Curry's doing good, trade him!" A lot of the media still thinks that none of them are for real and were urging Paxson to move someone until JWill's accident. Krause took so much flack for not taking the first offer that came along--how much you wanna bet he'll get zero credit for his restraint once the 3 C's lead the team deep into the playoffs?
His reputation as a guy who enjoys taking apart teams and rebuilding from scratch is unfounded. The fact that he didn't trade Pippen is a great example to the contrary. Reinsdorf's penny pinching did a lot more to dismantle the 3-peat team and Krause's first rebuilding plan, but the media doesn't like Krause because he's fat so they scapegoat him instead.
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#34508
2003-07-29 9:48 PM
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New signings: - Elden Campbell signed with the Detroit Pistons
- Eric Piatkowski signed with the Houston Rockets
- Horace Grant signed with the Los Angeles Lakers
- Mark Madsen signed with the Minnesota Timberwolves
- Darrell Armstrong signed with the Hornets
And Cleveland traded Jumaine Jones to Boston for JR Bremer and Bruno Sundov.
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#34509
2003-07-29 9:59 PM
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The media doesn't like Krause because he's an egomaniac("players don't win championships, organizations do"), but Reinsdorf is just as bad. Infact, I'd put Reinsdorf in the same class as Steinbrenner in terms of insanity, though not approach.
Krause was pretty good at recognizing talent(though I'd say even that aspect of his duties has been overrated), but he had this need to uncover it from the most obscure locations. He often passed on the "obvious choices"(not always, as Michael Jordan proves) for the players that weren't quite as such; I suppose in an effort to prove to everyone that he was the "draft genius". Several times that tendency backfired, though, like his drafting of Jason Caffey instead of hometown phenom Michael Finley, Will Perdue instead of Dan Majerle, Charles Oakley(who, granted, is a great player) instead of Karl Malone. Yes, hindsight is 20/20, and every GM makes a bad move occasionally, but with Krause, he often knew that another available player was better than the one he was taking, but he took them anyway, for whatever reason. His reasoning behind passing on Finley(and his reluctance to take Eddy Curry, which was finally overcome by Reinsdorf's prodding) was that he was certain that players never perform well in their hometown.
Was the severity of his persecution warranted? Perhaps not. But, honestly, when you help chase off the most popular sports figure since Babe Ruth in Michael Jordan, then say that Jerry West and Oscar Robertson were better, you're asking to be reamed.
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#34510
2003-07-29 10:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
The media doesn't like Krause because he's an egomaniac("players don't win championships, organizations do"), but Reinsdorf is just as bad. Infact, I'd put Reinsdorf in the same class as Steinbrenner in terms of insanity, though not approach.
That quote is taken horribly out of context. What Krause meant was that everybody in the organization mattered, from the management to the players. But the media always wanted something against him, so they quoted him out of context.
quote:
Krause was pretty good at recognizing talent(though I'd say even that aspect of his duties has been overrated), but he had this need to uncover it from the most obscure locations. He often passed on the "obvious choices"(not always, as Michael Jordan proves) for the players that weren't quite as such; I suppose in an effort to prove to everyone that he was the "draft genius". Several times that tendency backfired, though, like his drafting of Jason Caffey instead of hometown phenom Michael Finley, Will Perdue instead of Dan Majerle, Charles Oakley(who, granted, is a great player) instead of Karl Malone.
Don't forget passing Rashard Lewis in favor of Corey Benjamin. Yeah, he made some major goofups.
quote:
Was the severity of his persecution warranted? Perhaps not. But, honestly, when you help chase off the most popular sports figure since Babe Ruth in Michael Jordan, then say that Jerry West and Oscar Robertson were better, you're asking to be reamed.
He really didn't chase off Jordan(he did Pippen, though). Jordan said he'd come back for another year if Phil Jackson was still coach. Jackson wanted Krause's GM job, and Reinsdorf wouldn't give it to him because Krause did nothing to lose it. So Phil walked, and Michael walked. It wasn't really Krause's fault like you're making it to be.
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#34511
2003-07-29 10:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jafabian:
The police blotter's getting full too.
Damon Stoudamire pleads innocent to drug possesion.
Jerry Stackhouse charges with striking a female police officer.
Gary Payton and Sam Cassell charged with assault.
And then there is Kobe......
Antoine Walker got assault charges a couple weeks ago, too. ![[DOH!]](graemlins/homerface01.gif)
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#34512
2003-07-29 11:06 PM
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I didn't know Jackson wanted Krause's job, from what I heard he just wanted Krause gone. And, yes, that was his fault, because Krause treated Phil like he treated just about everyone; like crap. Krause was notorious for never responding with a simple "hello" or even just a nod when employees or players would greet him.
Did he literally chase Phil Jackson out of Chicago? No, but he got on Phil's bad side fairly quickly, and never got along with him after that. The same can be said for Scottie Pippen.
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#34513
2003-07-29 11:38 PM
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Even so, if it wasn't for Krause, Phil may never have gotten a job in the NBA. Everyone else, including Reinsdorf, thought Phil was just a crazy hippie. Krause saw something more, and hired him as an assistant and then gave him the head coaching job(ironically after Doug Collins demanded to be made GM in place of Krause, too). So even if he did treat him shabbily it's possible that nobody thought higher of Jackson.
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#34514
2003-07-30 1:06 AM
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Like I said, I wouldn't doubt his eye for talent....but the guy was still a dick. Does the good(eye for talent) outweigh the bad(extreme dickitude)? That's a matter of opinion.
Either way, I think that he'll forever be associated with disassembling the champion Bulls rather than assembling them(perhaps unfairly so).
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#34515
2003-08-04 10:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 39
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Nets all the way this year baby!
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#34516
2003-08-04 11:15 PM
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For every good player Krause got, he also acquired players like Brad Sellers, Stacey King and Dennis Hopson. I can't believe he drafted King 7th overall. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to watch Scottie Pippen at Central Arkansas and go "what a great player."
The true test of his ability as GM would be the years without Michael. I refuse to credit Michael with being the only reason they won championships, but look at how the team performed in those years and what Krause assembled.
I'd love to see him return like West has in Tenessee and see how Krause works then.
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#34517
2003-08-04 11:34 PM
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Pippen was very raw in college. Krause drafted him because of his freakishly long arms and large hands(the same reason he drafted Brand).
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#34518
2003-08-04 11:34 PM
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Pippen was very raw in college. Krause drafted him because of his freakishly long arms and large hands(the same reason he drafted Brand).
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#34519
2003-08-04 11:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jafabian:
For every good player Krause got, he also acquired players like Brad Sellers, Stacey King and Dennis Hopson. I can't believe he drafted King 7th overall. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to watch Scottie Pippen at Central Arkansas and go "what a great player."
Apparently Seattle didn't think so. They traded him to Krause for Olden Polynice.
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#34520
2003-08-04 11:52 PM
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Some thought Krause was making a big mistake by doing so, saying that Jordan desperately needed a big man.
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#34521
2003-08-05 12:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2000
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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i like the nets picking up mourning a lot more than i liked them picking up matumbo.
most importanly, of course, was the major resigning of kidd, whom i felt was a guarantee (as long as he wanted to return). the franchise should, for better or worse, be built to star him.
now we just gotta deal with the stadium rumors.
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#34522
2003-08-05 4:20 PM
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Posts: 83
MVP 25+ posts
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The Nets are going to win the championship this year for sure......hopefully I'll be home watching the Finals and not in jail.
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#34523
2003-08-05 10:13 PM
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Gee, PJP, you're sure not giving yourself away....
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#34524
2003-08-05 11:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kristogar Velo:
Apparently Seattle didn't think so. They traded him to Krause for Olden Polynice.
Yes, and the GM responsible ended up going to the JailBlazers later on, and he has since been released from that organization.
And now he runs the Seahawks.....
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#34525
2003-08-06 12:10 AM
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Speaking of Olden Polynice, who hasn't been with an NBA team the past two seasons but has played a bit for the Harlem Globetrotters, he signed with the Los Angeles Clippers. He actually could have a shot at starting, given the Clippers' lack of everything outside Elton Brand.
On a lighter note, Keon Clark signed with the Utah Jazz.
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#34526
2003-08-06 1:46 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1
We already are 15000+ posts
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Gee, PJP, you're sure not giving yourself away....
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#34527
2003-08-07 4:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kristogar Velo:
Speaking of Olden Polynice, who hasn't been with an NBA team the past two seasons but has played a bit for the Harlem Globetrotters, he signed with the Los Angeles Clippers.
Maybe he'll dress up as a security guard!
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#34528
2003-08-16 6:15 PM
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Mavericks and Warriors make blockbuster 8 player dealMavs get: Antawn Jamison Danny Fortson Chris Mills Jiri Welsch Warriors get: Nick Van Exel Avery Johnson Evan Eschemeyer Popeye Jones From a talent perspective, Dallas got a major steal here. Two players that can contribute in a big way immediately(plus a veteran nearing his end and a very raw Euro), for one All Star caliber scorer, and three guys who played about 10 minutes all season combined. However, I'm not sure Jamison is really the answer. Despite his size and bulk, he plays primarily about 15 feet from the basket rather than posting up, isn't very active in the paint, and isn't a spectacular defensive player. In my opinion, Danny Fortson is the real attraction, as he gives Dallas exactly what it needs; a lane clogger that can rebound like mad. Fortson's capable of playing 25-30 minutes a night and still leading the team in rebounds, plus picking up easy baskets inside and drawing the tough guard down low on defense. He's not tall enough to play some of the West centers, but his strength makes up for the inches he loses to some of the better power forwards. For Golden State, this gets Jamison's extra large contract off their hands, and gives them a scoring point guard to replace Arenas.
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#34529
2003-08-17 4:45 AM
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Man, I'll take Jamison on the Sonics! He's a stud in the mold of Xavier McDaniel/Calvin Natt as a 3 who plays like a 4. Now Finley is in the backcourt full time rather than splitting between the two positions depending on the mathups. I'm surprised Steinbrenner didn't figure out a way to block this deal! ![[wink]](images/icons/wink.gif)
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#34530
2003-08-17 4:48 PM
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Actually he's a 4 who plays at the 3. That's his problem. He's 6'10(or, a very, very tall 6'9) 230 but he doesn't post up.
He'd be kind of pointless on the Sonics. They already have Rashard Lewis, another guy who's got power forward height but a small forward mentality.
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#34531
2003-08-18 1:03 AM
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Lewis can't play hurt though, and has absolutely no "D." With Collison as our PF we could use Jamison on the boards. Lewis is solid but Jamison's better. And Lewis tends to brain lock on the court sometimes as well.
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#34532
2003-08-18 2:41 AM
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Fortson's problem is his chronically-injured foot. His contract is an albatross a la Koncak and Chris Dudley. I think the Warriors are looking for cap room for next year's free agency...
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#34533
2003-08-18 10:55 AM
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Fortson is much better than Jon Koncak and Chris Dudley, though, and really, his contract isn't that bad. Infact, in this era of high salaries, his contract is great. He's a double-double guy, when healthy(and a good portion of the time he missed last year was simply due to the coach not wanting to play him, rather than him actually being hurt), so 5 mil a year is pretty sensible.
For some comparison, Fortson will be the 8th highest paid player on the Dallas Mavericks next year(and makes less than former/current teammates Erik Dampier, Chris Mills, Tariq Abdul Wahad, Raef Lafrentz and Bobby Sura), and makes less than half as much as comparable players like Brian Grant, Theo Ratliff, and Antonio Davis, not to mention the really overpaid bigmen like Vin Baker, Dikembe Mutumbo, etc.
As for Rashard Lewis, he's still young enough to improve his game significantly, and at least he can add bulk. Jamison is built like a tank but still doesn't play defense or spend a lot of time banging in the paint.
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#34534
2003-08-19 1:06 AM
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Geez, I'd love to have Ratliff on our team. Who wouldn't want a guy like him on their roster? All of Seattle wanted us to trade Lewis instead of Mason for Ray Allen and have Radmanovich as the SF. The Rad Man is another Kucoc and needs to quit playing the 4 spot.
I think Dallas needs a SG off the bench who can swing down to the 3. Then they're done. They can compete with the Lakes.
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#34535
2003-08-19 4:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jafabian:
Geez, I'd love to have Ratliff on our team. Who wouldn't want a guy like him on their roster?
He's got a big contract(about twice the size of Fortson's), and he's been injury ridden throughout his career.
Great upside, but he's hardly the perfect bargain.
quote:
I think Dallas needs a SG off the bench who can swing down to the 3. Then they're done. They can compete with the Lakes.
I think they have that. Finley, Josh Howard, the recently acquired Marquis Daniels(after his tournament performance, I'm shocked that he wasn't drafted). What we really need is a backup point guard, now that both Nick and Avery Johnson are gone(Steve Nash has to have fresh legs going into the playoffs), and a true center.
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#34536
2003-08-19 6:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Animalman:
Mavericks and Warriors make blockbuster 8 player deal
Mavs get:
Antawn Jamison
Danny Fortson
Chris Mills
Jiri Welsch
Warriors get:
Nick Van Exel
Avery Johnson
Evan Eschemeyer
Popeye Jones
Antoine Rigodeau(sp?) also goes to the Warriors. Bet that'll shake stuff up.
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