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Ithaca Journal: I am a 25 year-plus veteran of the United States Army. I received some outrageous news on Oct. 14 that [Police Chief] Signer and the deputy chief of the Ithaca Police Department have decided, in their wisdom, to remove the U.S. flag from the police uniform and put a police patch in place of it.
What do they think they are doing? In this time of war, turmoil and the World Trade Center tragedy not far behind us, it is ludicrous to remove the flag. Ms. Signer may not know what the flag represents to a veteran.
The men and women of the police force have been told that if they do not remove the flag they will be charged with gross insubordination.
In checking this out before writing, I was told that a small pin (which inaccurately depicts the American flag) will be put on the uniform and that because the city buys the uniforms, the "chief can do as she wants."
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That seems like a fairly pointless exercise in offending people. Bureaucracy is becoming increasingly pointless. It’s like they are just looking for things to change sometimes without considering why, just to justify their existence.
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Knowing the extreme left wing biases of Ithaca's administration, I would guess they did this as some sort of sop to the "hate America" crowd that tends to populate this city.
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Somebody please tell me this is simply an incredibly tasteless prank,because if this story is true this country is in major trouble.
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Ithaca is the home of my alma mater, Cornell.
Ithaca is widely considered the most left wing city in America.
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I really don't see where this "liberals hate America" thing comes from.
Sure they disagree on lots points with the current administration, but all the American liberals I have come across still love their country, they just disagreew ithe way it is run.
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Quote:
Steve T said:
I really don't see where this "liberals hate America" thing comes from.
Conservatives.
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Not all liberals hate America, but there is a definte strain that does.
Ithaca is full of that strain. The city is full of houses that fly the UN flag and the "rainbow" flag instead of the stars and stripes.
In addition to the story that serves as the basis for this thread, I remember reading of an Ithaca College Professor who was verbally attacked for hanging a US flag outside his office shortly after Sept 11.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Fair enough.
I reread my post and I meant it more of a genuine question than it sounded (probably cos it's a generalised anti-liberal myth that's right up there with liberals think Saddam was a lovely cuddly man who loved all those around him).
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Not all liberals hate America, but there is a definte strain that does.
Personally I always find this is a very small number of people who's relevance is over emphasised.
Quote:
Ithaca is full of that strain. The city is full of houses that fly the UN flag and the "rainbow" flag instead of the stars and stripes.
Just because their alleigance is not specifically to the USA doesn't mean they hate America. I don't really feel much patriotism but by no means do I hate Britain.
Quote:
In addition to the story that serves as the basis for this thread, I remember reading of an Ithaca College Professor who was verbally attacked for hanging a US flag outside his office shortly after Sept 11.
There's no way to argue that whoever did that were fucked up, hypocritical tossers.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Ithaca is full of that strain. The city is full of houses that fly the UN flag and the "rainbow" flag instead of the stars and stripes.
In addition to the story that serves as the basis for this thread, I remember reading of an Ithaca College Professor who was verbally attacked for hanging a US flag outside his office shortly after Sept 11.
There's nothing wrong with flying the UN flag or rainbow flag instead of the American one. Those flags aren't anti America. And we don't know if the person who attacked the college professor was liberal, conservative or moderate.
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It's pretty fair to assume that they extremist liberals. I can't htink of any of the other groups attacking him for that reason.
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Quote:
Steve T said:
It's pretty fair to assume that they extremist liberals. I can't htink of any of the other groups attacking him for that reason.
Non-Americans
Extremist conservatives
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Extreme conservative Americans offended by flag waving? Bollocks!
True, it could be non-Americans.
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Quote:
Steve T said:
Extreme conservative Americans offended by flag waving? Bollocks!
True, it could be non-Americans.
I'm talking about the real extremists. More extreme then the ones you see on this board. The hillbilly fuckers who spend their days cleaning their guns. The ones that wish the South won and fly the confederate flag.
The other side you don't hear about.
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Why would, or better yet, why SHOULD non-Americans be offended by an AMERICAN professor, displaying an AMERICAN flag in AMERICA?
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Logic and hatred don't mix.
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Quote:
9.8 said:
I'm talking about the real extremists. More extreme then the ones you see on this board. The hillbilly fuckers who spend their days cleaning their guns. The ones that wish the South won and fly the confederate flag.
The other side you don't hear about.
I think, given that the people in question were at a college, the odds of them being "hillbilly fuckers" are extremely slim.
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Speaking of the Stars and Bars,anybody check out Ann Coulter's defense of said flag in her latest book?
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Quote:
Chris Oakley said:
Speaking of the Stars and Bars,anybody check out Ann Coulter's defense of said flag in her latest book?
No, please tell.
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Well,to make a long and incredibly complicated story short,AC bascially displays a seriously misplaced admiration for the Confederate army and dismisses objections to the Confederate flag as political correctness run amok.Not content with that,she goes one step further and lauds Southerners as the "warrior class" of American society.And to add insult to injury,she makes some smart-aleck "clodhopper from Maine" comment that basically denigrates New Englanders.
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Quote:
Chris Oakley said:
Well,to make a long and incredibly complicated story short,AC bascially displays a seriously misplaced admiration for the Confederate army and dismisses objections to the Confederate flag as political correctness run amok.Not content with that,she goes one step further and lauds Southerners as the "warrior class" of American society.And to add insult to injury,she makes some smart-aleck "clodhopper from Maine" comment that basically denigrates New Englanders.
Yea... I think I'd prefer an acctual example of what is was she said rather than your opinion of what she said. Could you tell me what she said sans commentary?
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Quote:
Chris Oakley said:
she makes some smart-aleck "clodhopper from Maine" comment that basically denigrates New Englanders.
Ann's from Connecticut.
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Southerners, the "warrior class".
Coulter never ceases to amaze me.
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Quote:
Chris Oakley said:
Well,to make a long and incredibly complicated story short,AC bascially displays a seriously misplaced admiration for the Confederate army and dismisses objections to the Confederate flag as political correctness run amok.Not content with that,she goes one step further and lauds Southerners as the "warrior class" of American society.And to add insult to injury,she makes some smart-aleck "clodhopper from Maine" comment that basically denigrates New Englanders.
A good example of one of those extreme conservatives 9.8 was talkin' about, if this is true.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
Chris Oakley said:
Well,to make a long and incredibly complicated story short,AC bascially displays a seriously misplaced admiration for the Confederate army and dismisses objections to the Confederate flag as political correctness run amok.Not content with that,she goes one step further and lauds Southerners as the "warrior class" of American society.And to add insult to injury,she makes some smart-aleck "clodhopper from Maine" comment that basically denigrates New Englanders.
Yea... I think I'd prefer an acctual example of what is was she said rather than your opinion of what she said. Could you tell me what she said sans commentary?
Just let me find the book again and I'll get back to you.
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Quote:
Chris Oakley said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
Chris Oakley said:
Well,to make a long and incredibly complicated story short,AC bascially displays a seriously misplaced admiration for the Confederate army and dismisses objections to the Confederate flag as political correctness run amok.Not content with that,she goes one step further and lauds Southerners as the "warrior class" of American society.And to add insult to injury,she makes some smart-aleck "clodhopper from Maine" comment that basically denigrates New Englanders.
Yea... I think I'd prefer an acctual example of what is was she said rather than your opinion of what she said. Could you tell me what she said sans commentary?
Just let me find the book again and I'll get back to you.
Thank you.
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Here, I found this by Ann: Quote:
Whenever I hear white people somberly opining that the Confederate battle flag symbolizes slavery, I can't help wondering who their friends are. Do their friends support slavery? Does anyone -- apart from a few demonstrably insane losers?
In a duly famous "Saturday Night Live" skit, Eddie Murphy goes on a bus disguised as a white person and discovers that as soon as the white people think all the blacks are off the bus, they start serving cocktails and dancing. Politicians who claim the Confederate battle flag symbolizes slavery may as well be claiming that all the white people get cocktails and music when the last black person leaves the bus. It's not true.
So as a white person, I would like to assure all nonwhites that these politicians are lying: White people do not secretly support slavery any more than they drink cocktails and dance on the bus.
Personally I dissagree with Ann and others on the Confederate flag, but I do agree that it's not inherantly racist to support it.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Here, I found this by Ann:
So as a white person, I would like to assure all nonwhites that these politicians are lying: White people do not secretly support slavery any more than they drink cocktails and dance on the bus.
Hehe! Nice SNL reference.
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Actually, she sourced it directly in the article, so it's not as slick a reference. Still, kudos on citing a very funny sketch.
And white people really did dance on the bus after we left. My white friends tell me so. Only problem is, nowadays most buses always have at least one minority riding. Pretty close to 100% of the time if you include the bus driver.
The economic status of a all-too-large percentage of the minority population added to our incessant need to leave the house to buy groceries has stolen your thunder.
Our bad.
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The Confederate flag might not inherently support slavery, but it shows support for an era and a nation that allowed it, so, in my opinion, the flag does inherently show tolerance of slavery, which isn't much better.
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Quote:
Animalman said:
The Confederate flag might not inherently support slavery, but it shows support for an era and a nation that allowed it, so, in my opinion, the flag does inherently show tolerance of slavery, which isn't much better.
But you can't assign that motive to everyone who supports the flag.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
But you can't assign that motive to everyone who supports the flag.
Unless they're completely ignorant of what the flag is, I absolutely can. If you support the Confederate, you're showing tolerance of the Confederate's ideals. Otherwise you're not really supporting it, just certain aspect(s) of it.
Again, that is my opinion.
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Quote:
Animalman said:
If you support the Confederate, you're showing tolerance of the Confederate's ideals. Otherwise you're not really supporting it, just certain aspect(s) of it.
Again, that is my opinion.
You're right, that is just your opinion because it's not entirely true.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
You're right, that is just your opinion because it's not entirely true.
How about skipping the asinine one-line commentary on someone else's opinion(which isn't any degree of "true" or "untrue"), and actually contributing to the conversation by sharing your own thoughts?
Or are you paid by the post?
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Quote:
Animalman said:
Quote:
thedoctor said:
You're right, that is just your opinion because it's not entirely true.
How about skipping the asinine one-line commentary on someone else's opinion(which isn't any degree of "true" or "untrue"), and actually contributing to the conversation by sharing your own thoughts?
Or are you paid by the post?
OK, I see it isn't just me you act that way towards. You're just an angry guy I guess.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
You're just an angry guy I guess.
You guess poorly, then. I'm not angry at doc. He's not angry at me. I assume we both know that(we've talked about this kind of thing before, outside the boards). One condescending comment deserves another, that's all.
For someone who's spent so much time here, you seem to be pretty oblivious to the way the posters here feel about each other. Whenever Pariah and I get into it you act like we're really having it out then, too. I can tell you, very few of us actually take these conversations personally, even if we don't end every post with emoticons to signify it.
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Quote:
Animalman said:
Whenever Pariah and I get into it you act like we're really having it out then, too. I can tell you, very few of us actually take these conversations personally, even if we don't end every post with emoticons to signify it.
No, I never take it personally, but for fuck's sake man, I need some damn indication of what kind of tone I should use. It's too damn hard when you spreckin' half the time to understand if we're starting something or not. Like that "Under God" thread; I didn't know you were joking when you said that thing about requirements for Christianity and such.
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Quote:
Steve T said:
It's pretty fair to assume that they extremist liberals.
As noted before, Ithaca is full of extremist liberals.
For example, check out this attack on the flag in today's newspaper:
I am ignorant as to why Chief Signer removed the flags from the uniforms of our police department members, but I'm glad she did it for my own reasons.
Instead of being a symbol of hard work, thoughtfulness and openness to new ideas, the Bush Administration has usurped this symbol of freedom with its lies and "if you're not with us you're against us" philosophy.
The flag is wrongly being treated as representative of an administration and should not be used to identify people as "for" or "against" their own country.
Now, people can disagree on the pros and/or cons of the Bush administration. However, and especially given all the "red white and blue" that John Kerry's people wave around (and the fact he has an approximately 50/50 chance of being elected president today), the idea that the flag should be banned because it has become a symbol of the "lies" of the Bush administration is one of the most screwed up things I have ever read in my life.
Furthermore, the idea that the letter writer finds it offensive that the flag of a nation might be a symbol of love for that nation makes one wonder just what in hell she thinks a flag is for.
I have little doubt this letter writer will, if Kerry wins today, find another reason to hate the flag tomorrow.
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