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Dave said:
Cool your jets, turbo. Time to inform you.



Sorry. Did I come off anxious?

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I posted this to query why we should care, when there was no passion to their creation. If they didn't care, why should we?



Because I don't believe concern is genuine if it is measured or based on someone else's level of concern.

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Let me clarify this. I do not like the way superhero comics are written, on the whole. But if I think an example of the genre is well-written or pushes the bundaries of the genre in new and interesting ways, then I will happily read and enjoy it. For example, I have previously admitted (and received derogation for it) I am a fan of Mark Millar's work on Authroity, on Wanted and on The Ultimates. Capes and masks everywhere in those books.



Actually, this does indeed clarify your opinion and stance on comic books, and the superhero genre in particular. Much appreciated, as it helps me understand many of your past (and future) rants...

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A repeat of your point one.



Actually, point one was giving the possibility that you are not honest in how you present yourself. Point two is given that you are.

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But let me go even further. I am doing a PhD thesis on the intellectual property rights in famous people's personalities and character properties. So I have a keen academic interest in superhero and other fictional properties, the way they evolve, they way they are licensed, the way they are fought over, and so on.



This sounds pretty interesting. Will you be publishing it online anywhere, such as your forum?

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One thing I have noticed, and is plainly obvious to anyone who reads the genre, is how similar these character concepts are.

Much of this is intentional. Its an effort to pass off the reputation and goodwill of a previously existing character. So, for example, I have no respect creatively for the person who invented Captain Marvel - its a clear rip off of Superman. Similarly, the Submariner - he's like Superman, but he fights crime underwater! Why should we celebrate such a person when their driver was to make money in creating a Superman clone?

On the other hand, when someone like Neil Gaiman can take the genre and make it something new under the sun, or Frank Miller can take an existing character and twist it almost beyond recognition, then that's something creative to applaud.



Well, perhaps this is where I should clarify my original intent/understanding of the first post I made in this thread. This thread came about, and was in obvious response, to the death of the creator of Jay Garrick (the original 40's Flash). So, in respect, while you are talking about the general medium, and all the fluff and retroactive redundancy that has come since, I was simply speaking about the creation of comic's first speedster. An original idea, I would say (and, no, I am not taking into consideration the mythological gods, or any other fictional realm outside of the comic book medium).

So, given the generalized argument about the comic medium, and the state of redundant copycats, I couldn't agree more. In the case of creating The Flash, it's not applicable.

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From a commercial perspective, an idea is worth the value of its commercial exploitation.

From an artistic perspective, an idea is worth the creative effort put into it.

My complaint is not that a character like Mr Terrific has or has not generated money for its owner, which is the usual measure of popularity in any artistic medium. My complaint is that we shouldn't revere the person who lacked creative passion in manufacturing Mr Terrific, as simply another character out to capitalise upon the popularity of the mystery man.



Absolutely agree.

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On this point, if only you put the passion you imbued in this post towards lobbying your government to improve education.....





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But I will pay respect to Shuster and Siegel, and to even to Stan Lee, Steve Dikto, Gardner Fox, and Jack Kirby for revitalising the genre in the 60s.



And Harry Lambert. The artist who co-created The Flash.

I see that this debate was really just born of misunderstanding the subject. And, as I really agree with everything you say concerning the general state of the spandex medium, it horrifies me to realize that you and I are more of the same mind than I previously believed....