RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events US investigates Falluja killing

Quote:

---

The US military is looking into whether an American marine in Falluja shot dead a severely wounded Iraqi insurgent at point-blank range.

Television footage shows US soldiers entering a building as injured prisoners lie on the floor.

The soldier, from the 3rd battalion of the US marines, has been removed from the field and faces possible charges.

The images were taken by an NBC reporter embedded with the US troops in the Sunni city under assault.

The BBC's James Robbins says the incident could prove highly damaging and that the US military will need to answer key questions about whether the rules of engagement were broken during the incident.

It must explain, he says, whether wounded combatants were abandoned, or killed, illegally.

Mosque stormed

US marines have been battling with sporadic but fierce pockets of resistance inside the city. They say they have already killed 1,200 insurgents.

The images show a group of marines, armed with rifles, entering a building near a mosque.

The mosque had been used by insurgents to attack US forces, who had stormed it, killing 10 militants and wounding five.

At least three severely wounded men are seen in a room inside the building - two are slumped against one of the walls, partially covered with a blanket.

The NBC's Kevin Sites says the wounded men had been left in the mosque after marines had fought their way in on Friday and Saturday.

According to Mr Sites, one of the soldiers points his rifle at the head of one of the injured, an old man. The sound of a shot is then heard.

There was no immediate comment from the Pentagon on the report.

---

Quote:

---

Predictable.

---

Quote:

---

You aren't going to stabilise the country using bullets and brute force.

---

Quote:

---

the G-man said:
Here's an interesting question to chew on:

If, in fact, the reveal of this "news" is damaging to the war effort and/or potentially putting our troops at risk, would the troops have been justified in shooting the NBC reporter (in a burst of "accidental" friendly fire) and erasing the footage?

---

Quote:

---

Sites reported a Marine in the same unit had been killed just a day earlier when he tended to the booby-trapped dead body of an insurgent.

---

Quote:

---

The Time Trust said:
Nice bit of moral relativizing, there.

---

Quote:

---

the G-man said:
Someone needs to explain to these damn reporters that Fallujah is not LA, our soldier's are not cops and terrorists are not Rodney King.

I'm sure that, for example, things like this happened in WWII also, but back then our war correspondents knew better than to broadcast the fact, for fear it would undermine the troops.

Maybe that soldier was wrong, but broadcasting the images doesn't do anything other than serve as propaganda for the enemy.

---

Quote:

---

JQ said:

Quote:

---

the G-man said:
Someone needs to explain to these damn reporters that Fallujah is not LA, our soldier's are not cops and terrorists are not Rodney King.

I'm sure that, for example, things like this happened in WWII also, but back then our war correspondents knew better than to broadcast the fact, for fear it would undermine the troops.

Maybe that soldier was wrong, but broadcasting the images doesn't do anything other than serve as propaganda for the enemy.

---

You are the definition of a cop-out. That's some fucked up Nazi-esque logic that you're using.


If the facts of a war outweigh the "good", then you're in trouble. Let's hear the good, the bad, and the ugly. If the facts undermine our troops more than the good helps them, then we are involved in a pretty pathetic little war.

Your logic can be used to justify just about fucking anything. Let's say there's German reporter back in 1940 has learned about how bad the Nazi's are being, and has the power to broadcast it to every German without being censored. Should this reporter broadcast this footage, or would that hurt the troops? That's just fucking pathetic.

---

Quote:

---

By Michael Georgy

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. Marines rallied round a comrade under investigation for killing a wounded Iraqi during the offensive in Falluja, saying he was probably under combat stress in unpredictable, hair-trigger circumstances.

Marines interviewed on Tuesday said they didn't see the shooting as a scandal, rather the act of a comrade who faced intense pressure during the effort to quell the insurgency in the city.

"I can see why he would do it. He was probably running around being shot at for days on end in Falluja. There should be an investigation but they should look into the circumstances," said Lance Corporal Christopher Hanson.

"I would have shot the insurgent too. Two shots to the head," said Sergeant Nicholas Graham, 24, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. "You can't trust these people. He should not be investigated. He did nothing wrong."

The military command launched an investigation after video footage showed a U.S. Marine shooting a wounded and unarmed man in a mosque in the city on Saturday. The man was one of five wounded and left in the mosque after Marines fought their way through the area.

A pool report by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said the mosque had been used by insurgents to attack U.S. forces, who stormed it, killing 10 militants and wounding the five. Sites said the wounded had been left for others to pick up.

A second group of Marines entered the mosque on Saturday after reports it had been reoccupied. Footage from the embedded television crew showed the five still in the mosque, although several appeared to be close to death, Sites said.

He said a Marine noticed one prisoner was still breathing.

A Marine can be heard saying on the pool footage provided to Reuters Television: "He's f***ing faking he's dead."

"The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head," Sites said.

NBC said the Marine, who had reportedly been shot in the face himself the previous day, said immediately after the shooting: "Well, he's dead now."

THOROUGH PROBE PROMISED

The Marine commander in Falluja, Lieutenant General John Sattler, said his men followed the law of conflict and held themselves to a high standard of accountability.

"The facts of this case will be thoroughly pursued to make an informed decision and to protect the rights of all persons involved," he said.

Marines have repeatedly described the rebels they fought against in Falluja as ruthless fighters who didn't play by the rules. They say the investigation is politically motivated.

"It's all political. This Marine has been under attack for days. It has nothing to do with what he did," said Corporal Keith Hoy, 23.

Rights group Amnesty International said on Monday both sides in the Falluja fighting had broken the rules of war governing the protection of civilians and wounded combatants.



Gunnery Sergeant Christopher Garza, 30, favored an investigation but like other Marines said the Pentagon (news - web sites) should weigh its decision carefully.

"He should have captured him. Maybe the insurgent had some valuable information. There may have been mitigating circumstances. Maybe his two buddies died in Falluja," he said.

Sites said: "I have witnessed the Marines behaving as a disciplined and professional force throughout this offensive. In this particular case, it certainly was a confusing situation to say the least."

The U.S. military has been embarrassed by scandals in Iraq (news - web sites), most prominently the Abu Ghraib affair in which at least eight U.S. soldiers have been tried or face courts-martial over the abuse of prisoners at the jail outside Baghdad.

There have also been several cases in which soldiers have been charged with wrongfully killing Iraqis during operations.

---

Quote:

---

wannabuyamonkey said:
The important thing is that this is more important than the great victory we won in Falluja that y'all didn't think important enough to post.

---

Awww...is diddums feeling left out because nobody responded to his thread?

(Sorry. Just trying to lighten the mood here.)

As for the shooting, it sounds like the facts about this are still coming in, and there's yet to be a thorough investigation. I realize this is difficult for you guys to do, but maybe we oughtta...dare I say it...wait for all the facts to come in and wait for the investigation to find whatever there is to find before we start issuing "innocent" or "guilty" verdicts?



I'm banned from the RKMBs now, aren't I?

Quote:

---

Darknight613 said:
it sounds like the facts about this are still coming in, and there's yet to be a thorough investigation. I realize this is difficult for you guys to do, but maybe we oughtta...dare I say it...wait for all the facts to come in and wait for the investigation to find whatever there is to find before we start issuing "innocent" or "guilty" verdicts?



I'm banned from the RKMBs now, aren't I?

---

Yes. You are.

Seriously, however. I agree. And that's why what the press did so pissed me off.

By airing or discussing that video before THEY know all the facts, they allowed a hell of a lot of people, including the Muslim world, to declare that soldier guilty before all the facts were known.

That endangers other soldiers and makes the war effort more difficult.

Quote:

---

the G-man said:

Quote:

---

Darknight613 said:
it sounds like the facts about this are still coming in, and there's yet to be a thorough investigation. I realize this is difficult for you guys to do, but maybe we oughtta...dare I say it...wait for all the facts to come in and wait for the investigation to find whatever there is to find before we start issuing "innocent" or "guilty" verdicts?



I'm banned from the RKMBs now, aren't I?

---

Yes. You are.

Seriously, however. I agree. And that's why what the press did so pissed me off.

By airing or discussing that video before THEY know all the facts, they allowed a hell of a lot of people, including the Muslim world, to declare that soldier guilty before all the facts were known.

That endangers other soldiers and makes the war effort more difficult.

---

Quote:

---

the G-man said:
I suspect so.

It's like police misconduct. Cops get disciplined, arrested, investigated, etc., for misconduct all the time, even in cases where the press doesn't know about it. Sure there are cases of the "thin blue line" or whatever, but there are a lot of other cases where the police really do police their own.

After all, its not like the JAG corps and courts martial don't have a function the other 364 days per year.

---

Quote:

---

Furthermore, as touched upon above, the subsequent coverage of this case is telling.

---

Quote:

---

Why didn't they bother to find out this information before they aired the video, in order to broadcast a more complete story in the first place?

Obviously, if there's a big story here, it would still be a big story after a more thorough investigation by the media. Part of that investigation could be the military's response to what happened.

However, rather than wait to find out more facts, the media rushed to a form of judgement.

---

Quote:

---

Body of Caucasian woman with blonde hair found in Fallujah: marines
Sun Nov 14, 5:30 AM ET

FALLUJAH, Iraq (AFP) - The body of a blonde-haired woman with her legs and arms cut off and throat slit was found lying on the street in Fallujah, a notorious enclave for hostage-takers, marines said.

"It is definitely a Caucasian woman with long blonde hair," said a military official, who cut open a cover that had been over the corpse.

The gruesome discovery was made as the marines moved through the south of Fallujah, hunting out the remaining die-hard rebels after a week of fierce fighting to regain control of the city.

"It is a female... missing all four appendages, with a slashed throat and disembowled, she has been dead for a while but only in this location for a day or two," said Benjamin Finnell, a hospital apprentice with the Navy Corps, who had inspected the body.

An AFP photographer embedded with the marines said the woman was wearing a blue dress and her face was completely disfigured.

The marines said she appeared to have been on the street for about two days.

Sweeps of rubble-strewn neighbourhoods in Fallujah have already uncovered a grisly underworld of hostage slaughterhouses, prisons and torture chambers as well as the corpses of Iraqis who had been executed, marines say.

Surviving hostages have also been found, but only one has been a foreigner -- a Syrian driver who was abducted with two French journalists in August.

Two foreign women have been abducted in Iraq (news - web sites) and remain missing.

One, Teresa Borcz, 54, a Pole, has blonde hair, the other, British aid worker Margaret Hassan, 59, has chestnut-coloured hair.

Borcz, married to an Iraqi and a resident in Iraq for 30 years, was abducted late last month. She has appeared in two video cassettes appealing to the Polish government to help her but her fate is unknown.

Hassan, the Iraqi head of relief agency CARE International, was kidnapped on her way to work in Baghdad on October 19 and has appeared in three videos.

She also holds Iraqi citizenship after marrying an Iraq and is a long-term resident of the country.

---

Quote:

---

Darknight613 said:
I think it's more about giving viewers a partial story that leaves them wanting more, and then slowly giving them more as they find out. That's how they get people to keep paying attention to them. They go "Look what we just found out! Keep listening to us, or you won't get all the facts we're getting hot off the press!" (You studied journalism, so I'm sure you know all this.)

I've gotten so used to tuning them out because of these tactics, (which is, ironically, why I don't have any firsthand info of how they're reporting.) It's also why I turned my back on working in journalism (that and my internship with a TV news company wasn't a pleasant experience).

Above any other political agenda, real or imagined, journalists are sensationalists.

---

Quote:

---

Awww...is diddums feeling left out because nobody responded to his thread?

---

Quote:

---

but maybe we oughtta...dare I say it...wait for all the facts to come in and wait for the investigation to find whatever there is to find before we start issuing "innocent" or "guilty" verdicts?

---

Quote:

---

I think it's more about giving viewers a partial story that leaves them wanting more.

---

Quote:

---

I've gotten so used to tuning them out because of these tactics, (which is, ironically, why I don't have any firsthand info of how they're reporting.) It's also why I turned my back on working in journalism (that and my internship with a TV news company wasn't a pleasant experience).

---

Quote:

---

MisterJLA said:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st...ncid=1478<br

Quote:

---

Body of Caucasian woman with blonde hair found in Fallujah: marines
Sun Nov 14, 5:30 AM ET

FALLUJAH, Iraq (AFP) - The body of a blonde-haired woman with her legs and arms cut off and throat slit was found lying on the street in Fallujah, a notorious enclave for hostage-takers, marines said.

"It is definitely a Caucasian woman with long blonde hair," said a military official, who cut open a cover that had been over the corpse.

The gruesome discovery was made as the marines moved through the south of Fallujah, hunting out the remaining die-hard rebels after a week of fierce fighting to regain control of the city.

"It is a female... missing all four appendages, with a slashed throat and disembowled, she has been dead for a while but only in this location for a day or two," said Benjamin Finnell, a hospital apprentice with the Navy Corps, who had inspected the body.

An AFP photographer embedded with the marines said the woman was wearing a blue dress and her face was completely disfigured.

The marines said she appeared to have been on the street for about two days.

Sweeps of rubble-strewn neighbourhoods in Fallujah have already uncovered a grisly underworld of hostage slaughterhouses, prisons and torture chambers as well as the corpses of Iraqis who had been executed, marines say.

Surviving hostages have also been found, but only one has been a foreigner -- a Syrian driver who was abducted with two French journalists in August.

Two foreign women have been abducted in Iraq (news - web sites) and remain missing.

One, Teresa Borcz, 54, a Pole, has blonde hair, the other, British aid worker Margaret Hassan, 59, has chestnut-coloured hair.

Borcz, married to an Iraqi and a resident in Iraq for 30 years, was abducted late last month. She has appeared in two video cassettes appealing to the Polish government to help her but her fate is unknown.

Hassan, the Iraqi head of relief agency CARE International, was kidnapped on her way to work in Baghdad on October 19 and has appeared in three videos.

She also holds Iraqi citizenship after marrying an Iraq and is a long-term resident of the country.

---

Naturally, we won't be reading as much about things of this nature, since it doesn't make the military or President Bush look bad.

---

American and Iraqi authorities tried to prevent rage from spreading among Sunnis, many of whom watched dramatic footage of the shooting that aired throughout the day on Al-Jazeera television, a Qatar-based satellite station.

"Look at this old man who was slain by them," said Ahmed Khalil, 40, as he watched the video in his Baghdad shop. "Was he a fighter? Was anybody who was killed inside this mosque a fighter? Where are their weapons? I don't know what to say."

It was unclear to what extent other Iraqis, particularly the majority Shiite Muslims, cared about the shooting.

Maysoun Hirmiz, 36, a Christian merchant in Baghdad, said she was not satisfied by an announcement by the U.S. military that it had removed the Marine from the battlefield and will investigate whether he acted in self defense.


"They will say or do the same thing they did with the soldiers who committed the abuses against Iraqis detainees in Abu Ghraib prison, and they are still free, enjoying their lives while they destroyed other peoples' lives," Hirmiz said.

Quote:

---

It seems the media has an excellent talent for rooting out that small minority.

---

Quote:

---

the G-man said:
Here's an interesting question to chew on:

If, in fact, the reveal of this "news" is damaging to the war effort and/or potentially putting our troops at risk, would the troops have been justified in shooting the NBC reporter (in a burst of "accidental" friendly fire) and erasing the footage?

---

Quote:

---

backwards7 said:
There needs to be more of an effort made, by the people beginning threads, to present a balanced foundation for discussion... I believe that anyone starting an new thread on this forum needs to make the sincere effort to present both sides of the argument, as a balanced press article would. It’s a discipline that would separate the people who want to land a cheap shot

---

Quote:

---

backwards7 said:
US investigates Falluja killing

I couldn't quite believe it when they showed this footage on the 10 O'Clock news. These men all looked seriously wounded. They were certainly in no position to put up any kind of resistance and there were no weapons in sight, apart from those being carried by the marines.

---