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you are a liberal hippie commie piece of shit who realizes he has no chance of ever making anything out of his life so you figure let me try and be a part of this radical left wing movement to bring down democracy. You will always work for people like me....and it bothers you
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now go and get me a fucking soda bitch.
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where's my fucking soda.....hurry up cunt
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goddamnit are you that fucking worthles you fucking commie that you can't even get me a soda
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I like lots of ice commie
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that's it.....you're getting a lashing now......now I'm officially parched
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quench my thirst you hippie bastard and when you're done shine my fucking shoes.
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Quote:
PJP said:
you are a liberal hippie commie piece of shit who realizes he has no chance of ever making anything out of his life so you figure let me try and be a part of this radical left wing movement to bring down democracy. You will always work for people like me....and it bothers you
Wow. I hit a nerve, I guess.
Actually, I've had a pretty good life so far. Things look bright and I've been able to maintain a strong sense of independence and been able to control my own lifestyle and work situation. Where did the commie thing come from? Just because I don't like Bush or government lies? I'm not part of any "movement" as i believe once you get too many people in something the message always becomes twisted. I have my beliefs, and I have my views, and I'm willing to look at evidence and make my own conclusions without being told what those conclusions should be.
I imagine from your lashing out that you are a very miserable person, you must be if a messageboard gets you so riled. I bet, if anything, you're a middle management type. Probably deal with a lot of young people. You've recently come to the realization that your life will never ever improve so you grasp onto the little bits of power you can exert by making other people unhappy.
Again, I say wow.
Bow ties are coool.
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you work for me you fucking hippie.....don't forget it.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
PJP said:
you are a liberal hippie commie piece of shit who realizes he has no chance of ever making anything out of his life so you figure let me try and be a part of this radical left wing movement to bring down democracy. You will always work for people like me....and it bothers you
Wow. I hit a nerve, I guess.
Actually, I've had a pretty good life so far. Things look bright and I've been able to maintain a strong sense of independence and been able to control my own lifestyle and work situation. Where did the commie thing come from? Just because I don't like Bush or government lies? I'm not part of any "movement" as i believe once you get too many people in something the message always becomes twisted. I have my beliefs, and I have my views, and I'm willing to look at evidence and make my own conclusions without being told what those conclusions should be.
I imagine from your lashing out that you are a very miserable person, you must be if a messageboard gets you so riled. I bet, if anything, you're a middle management type. Probably deal with a lot of young people. You've recently come to the realization that your life will never ever improve so you grasp onto the little bits of power you can exert by making other people unhappy.
Again, I say wow.
dare to dream 
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Why do you say you are not a part of a movement.......all commies had one message this year...."anyone but Bush" and it failed.....deal with it.......you done with those wing tips yet.....cause I got some suede shoes I want you to waterproof....hurry up.
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THIS FUCKING SODA IS FLAT ASSHOLE!
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Quote:
PJP said:
Why do you say you are not a part of a movement.......all commies had one message this year...."anyone but Bush" and it failed.....deal with it.......you done with those wing tips yet.....cause I got some suede shoes I want you to waterproof....hurry up.
Its not really fair to use commies as a catch-all label. Communism is a specific doctrine based upon the writings of Marx. Same as how Socialism, Nihilism, Existentialism, Libetarianism, etc. are distinct from one another.
Bow ties are coool.
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you should know......you done yet.....good now press these pants
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WATCH THE MOTHER FUCKING PLEATS!!!
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NOT TOO MUCH STARCH DOUCHEBAG!!!
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Quote:
PJP said:
you should know......you done yet.....good now press these pants
yes, I've found that cracking a book (or god forbid doing a web search for politics and philosophy instead of porn) is a good way to learn things.
Bow ties are coool.
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I LIKE MY EGGS OVER MEDIUM.....NOT OVER HARD......r3x ARE YOU THAT STUPID YOU CAN'T EVEN COOK MY EGGS PROPERLY!
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I don't think you really deserve the poet laureate title.
none of what you just wrote rhymed.
Bow ties are coool.
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sorry it took so long to respond....my middle management job pulled me away from the computer. 
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Quote:
PJP said:
sorry it took so long to respond....my middle management job pulled me away from the computer.
what's your job?
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r3x29yz4a said:How does it go against rational reasoning? There is historical precedence. Operation Northwoods, FDR and Pearl Harbor, CIA experiments with LSD, CIA involvment in overthrowing Iranian coup in the 1950's, the Gulf of Tonkin.
These are on-the-record declassified events that show our government is up to this sort of thing. Perhaps you should take a better look at history.
Don't forget sending third world countries into dictartorships, but I don't know if that counts, since most of them were eating babies at the time.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
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Captain Sammitch said:
Better look = r3x's look. 
Do you actually know anything about the points that I mentioned? Did you look them up for yourself? Or did you just resort to a one-liner to make yourself feel smart?
You don't know a damn thing about me, do you?
For one thing, I do my absolute best to not hold grudges or make personal attacks against any posters on this forum, no matter how much their opinions may differ from mine. So you have yourself to thank for the shitstorm that follows.
I almost never make a post that states an assertion of fact or challenges another's assertion of fact until I've done a damn lot of looking at all sides of the issue. Do you think I post this stuff because I need your approval? I went to your links, I read the webshites™ you sent me to, and the vast majority of it was pure speculation. I have no problem with well-formed arguments made by those whose opinions differ from mine. What you referenced was pure, unadulterated Democrap™.
In case you're wondering, I'm no Nobel laureate (not that it means much anymore; they'll hand 'em to just about anyone these days), but I do consider myself at least intelligent enough to make value judgments that supersede the mindless ruminations of the herd mentality you subscribe to without a moment's hesitation. I believe the things I believe because I investigated them for myself and I decided they were the way to go. Just because they don't line up with whatever's floating around in your head does not make my opinions or beliefs inferior to yours. Any pseudointellectual dipshit can mention points. Only whiny little bitches accuse others of being closed-minded for not agreeing with them.
I'm sure you'll whip up an impressive display of ass-covering mixed with the odd straw man and personal attack after you read this. Don't waste your time. You've pretty much voided whatever patience I had reserved for you. There's nothing to be had from scrapping with me. Get over it and move on before you make a bigger ass of yourself.
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Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Don't forget sending third world countries into dictartorships,
You do realize the Soviets were doing that and much more, correct?
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Does that justify the 30,000 dead in my country? How do you explain that you felt a democratically elected communist goverment (that, by the way, would have probably been gone with the following elections) was bad enough to justify enforcing a coup, but a dictarship that resulted in murder, torture and censorship wasn't bad enough to do shit? It seems to me the world's police only moves a finger when it's good for them.
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r3x29yz4a said:
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rex said:
Does it take effort to maintain this level of paranoia? Or does it just come naturally?
What level of paranoia? Its scepticism. Its willing to question the official story when the facts don't jibe with what the leaders are saying.
Except when I point out where the facts don't jibe with your crack pot theory then all of a sudden the facts don't seem to be as important and you relegate my entire post to one line so you can argue wether or not I properly used the term "rational". So stop trying to condecend people like Sammich trying to imply that he has no understanding of history when it's clearly you who lack understanding and think the fact that the CIA experimented with LSD proves that Bush knocked down the towers (I'm using hyperbolic language in case you wanted to ignore my real point and go into weather Bush himself acctually flew the plane by remote or whatever, also you may want to google "hyperbolic").
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
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PJP said:
you are a complete moron.
It's people like you that make this world into the shit hole it is today. Instead of actually looking at evidence and using your brain, you blindly follow what you're told and violently lash out when the status quo is challenged by people willing to at least analyze things.
I would seriously suggest that you at least put some thought into the matter being discussed before replying with another genius reply.
Yea and while you're at it you should visit some consperacy web site and blindy accept he latest in crack pot theories because your understaning of history is so limited that you assume if the web site says it's true it must be and after all if it backs up your predisposistions then it must be true.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
PJP said:
you should know......you done yet.....good now press these pants
yes, I've found that cracking a book (or god forbid doing a web search for politics and philosophy instead of porn) is a good way to learn things.
I've found cracking books that acctually challenge my world view to be a far better way to understand the world and doing a web search for any web site that supports your world view and then blindly accepting something a discredited web site run by crazed fanatics as truth is the sophpmoric way to immitate true intellegence. That's why the cliche goes "A little knoledge is a dangerous thing". I'm not saying this because you're a liberal. I know lots of intellegent liberals who ask provoking questions and challenge me to think. You just don't happen to be one of them. I gave you a chance, but you failed.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Better look = r3x's look.
Do you actually know anything about the points that I mentioned? Did you look them up for yourself? Or did you just resort to a one-liner to make yourself feel smart?
You don't know a damn thing about me, do you?
For one thing, I do my absolute best to not hold grudges or make personal attacks against any posters on this forum, no matter how much their opinions may differ from mine. So you have yourself to thank for the shitstorm that follows.
I almost never make a post that states an assertion of fact or challenges another's assertion of fact until I've done a damn lot of looking at all sides of the issue. Do you think I post this stuff because I need your approval? I went to your links, I read the webshites™ you sent me to, and the vast majority of it was pure speculation. I have no problem with well-formed arguments made by those whose opinions differ from mine. What you referenced was pure, unadulterated Democrap™.
In case you're wondering, I'm no Nobel laureate (not that it means much anymore; they'll hand 'em to just about anyone these days), but I do consider myself at least intelligent enough to make value judgments that supersede the mindless ruminations of the herd mentality you subscribe to without a moment's hesitation. I believe the things I believe because I investigated them for myself and I decided they were the way to go. Just because they don't line up with whatever's floating around in your head does not make my opinions or beliefs inferior to yours. Any pseudointellectual dipshit can mention points. Only whiny little bitches accuse others of being closed-minded for not agreeing with them.
I'm sure you'll whip up an impressive display of ass-covering mixed with the odd straw man and personal attack after you read this. Don't waste your time. You've pretty much voided whatever patience I had reserved for you. There's nothing to be had from scrapping with me. Get over it and move on before you make a bigger ass of yourself.
Do you actually know anything about the points that I mentioned? Did you look them up for yourself? Or did you just resort to a one-liner to make yourself feel smart?
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Does that justify the 30,000 dead in my country? How do you explain that you felt a democratically elected communist goverment (that, by the way, would have probably been gone with the following elections) was bad enough to justify enforcing a coup, but a dictarship that resulted in murder, torture and censorship wasn't bad enough to do shit?
We did what we did to prevent the Soviets from spreading their influence, which is what they did in Eastern Europe. We considered them the worst of all evils (which is exactly what they were) and were willing to support some awful regimes in order to keep them in check.
We chose to support the lesser of two evils in that case.
Quote:
It seems to me the world's police only moves a finger when it's good for them.
What's good for us is good for everybody: democracy and capitalism.
Every country that has ever existed has only acted "when it's good for them".
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Quote:
PJP said:
WATCH THE MOTHER FUCKING PLEATS!!!
Heh.
Pleats.
They still wear those 'round ol Morris County?
Casual wear must be acid washed jeans and a wife-beater. Topped off with a Joe Dirt mullet.
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
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Quote:
PaulWellr said:
Quote:
PJP said:
WATCH THE MOTHER FUCKING PLEATS!!!
Heh.
Pleats.
They still wear those 'round ol Morris County?
Casual wear must be acid washed jeans and a wife-beater. Topped off with a Joe Dirt mullet.
on a good day yes......now come and take my dog for a walk bitch
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Quote:
MisterJLA said:
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Does that justify the 30,000 dead in my country? How do you explain that you felt a democratically elected communist goverment (that, by the way, would have probably been gone with the following elections) was bad enough to justify enforcing a coup, but a dictarship that resulted in murder, torture and censorship wasn't bad enough to do shit?
We did what we did to prevent the Soviets from spreading their influence, which is what they did in Eastern Europe. We considered them the worst of all evils (which is exactly what they were) and were willing to support some awful regimes in order to keep them in check.
We chose to support the lesser of two evils in that case.
Quote:
It seems to me the world's police only moves a finger when it's good for them.
What's good for us is good for everybody: democracy and capitalism.
Every country that has ever existed has only acted "when it's good for them".
With all due respect, and I say this with full sincerity, who the fuck is the US to tell Chile how to do things? What gives you the right to decide what kind of goverment we have? What is it that makes your country superior to mine? I find it unlikely that the possesors of the universal truth are mostly people ignorant of anything that isn't within their proximity.
I think what really happened here is that, since this was the world's first democratically elected goverment, and Chile was a fairly stable country (before you fucked it up for our own good, I mean), the circusmtances to find out if communism would really work under ideal conditions were finally given, and you were so scared that the answer might be yes that you decided it was worth it to send a small country to hell. After all, it wasn't your people dying with bolts pressed to their nuts. It was just a bunch of mexicans.
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With all due respect, and I say this with full sincerity, who the fuck is the US to tell Chile how to do things? What gives you the right to decide what kind of goverment we have? What is it that makes your country superior to mine? I find it unlikely that the possesors of the universal truth are mostly people ignorant of anything that isn't within their proximity.
We didn't want another Communist country in our hemisphere, for security reasons...see Cuba.
We put economic and political pressure on the Marxist government to see that they would fail. I don't think there's anything wrong with challenging an opposing system like that...seeking to overthrow of an elected government, and supporting Pinochet was wrong, though.
Was it the nicest thing in the world to do? No. We were however, in competition with the Soviets, who were quite skilled in spreading their influence throughout the world. We chose to keep some poor allies to prevent this, since this was the greater risk to our security.
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I think what really happened here is that, since this was the world's first democratically elected goverment, and Chile was a fairly stable country (before you fucked it up for our own good, I mean), the circusmtances to find out if communism would really work under ideal conditions were finally given, and you were so scared that the answer might be yes that you decided it was worth it to send a small country to hell. After all, it wasn't your people dying with bolts pressed to their nuts. It was just a bunch of mexicans
There are no ideal conditions for communism to work, because it doesn't. And if you mean by "fucking up" Chile economically, I guess not sending a billion dollars in aid would qualify, but isn't communism supposed to work on its own merit?
Maybe the economic conditions weren't as ideal as you claim they were.
Quote:
"Allende's increasingly bold socialist policies (partly in response to pressure from some of the more extreme members within his coalition), combined with his close contacts with Cuba, heightened fears in Washington. The Nixon administration began exerting economic pressure on Chile via multilateral organizations, and continued to back his opponents in the Chilean Congress.
As the economic problems heightened, Allende tried to rule by decree, using what he termed as resquicios legales (legal loopholes), ignoring thus Congress and the office of the General Comptroller. He also angered the Judicial branch when he refused to allow the use of public force to carry out the judicial sentences that he felt were against “the revolutionary process”.
His well-meant but misguided agrarian reform led to a massive shortage of basic foodstuffs. Big rural properties were broken up and handed to peasants, but there was no financial or technical support behind such move. Without money or knowledge on how to run the properties, production fell to almost nothing.
A similar process happened with the nationalized companies, which were supposed to be run by workers’s committees. Internal dissent and political appointments led to the collapse of production. Foreign interests had pulled out of Chile out of fear of nationalization.Lack of foreign currency also led to a shortage of spare parts and replacements, and many industries ground to a halt.
Runaway inflation led to a massive discontent from the middle-classes (that were the most affected by the lack of basic foodstuffs and daily necessities). Allende responded with massive price control measures and by a constant raising of the minimum wage, in order to keep pace with the inflation. For the bottom half of society, who never had anything before, it was a marked improvement to what had been before. But for the middle-classes and upper-classes, it meant long queues and total insecurity. The Chilean society became highly polarized. This discontent in turn led to two massive strikes that completed the destruction of the economy. Soon Allende began to lose control over the course of events, and what was worse, over his own coalition. Political violence became a daily occurrence. Hyper-inflation and shortages plunged the country into chaos."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende#Presidency
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He began nationalizing copper mines (which received unanimous congressional approval) and nationalizing other industries such as steel and coal, and a majority of private banks. Foreign companies, especially from the United States were a frequent target of nationalization measures. The International Telephone and Telegraph Company (ITT) was one of the victims. The other economic measures implemented eventually led to the economic crisis behind the political one of 1973. The price freezes and wage increases led to a freeze in production orders due to fears of inflation, which brought about shortages and encouraged the development of black markets for what products the people could get.
Chileans today tell of days spent waiting in lines to buy kerosene for heating in the winter of 1973. By January of this year inflation had reached 150%. Economic troubles and lack of economic support from other socialist governments, led to political turmoil. A strike by the copper workers in April 1973 sparked strikes by groups such as lawyers, physicians and architects and led the forming of middle class resistance to Allende's government. These groups formed a multi-class resistance movement along with the upper classes and private property owners. Protests increased, and weakness within the Popular Unity government due to pressure from radical factions to rule by decree, led to Allende's weakening hold on power. (The Popular Unity party was a coalition of several leftist parties, including the Socialist Party, the Communist Party, and the party of the Popular Action Front. Some of Allende's advisors wanted more drastic action, rather than the slow transition favored by Allende.)
http://www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/hasrg/german/exhibit/GDRposters/allende.html
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,958 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,958 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I think what really happened here is that...the circusmtances to find out if communism would really work under ideal conditions were finally given...
Hold on.
If there were "ideal conditions" as you claim, then communism should have, by your own theory, worked.
And, yet, in an earlier post you argued that the "democratically elected communist goverment ...would have probably been gone with the following elections"
By your own admission, therefore, even under "ideal conditions," including a democratic election, communism would have failed.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,506 Likes: 64
"Hey this is PCG342's bro..." 15000+ posts
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"Hey this is PCG342's bro..." 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 34,506 Likes: 64 |
Thank you, G-man.
That's why I posted the two quotes...communism is a fucked up enough system, we didn't need to sabotage it.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,920
devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 33,920 |
FUCKING EXACTLY!
Personally, by the little I know of communism, I don't think it would have worked. People I know, who know about this shit, don't think it would have worked. At least according to what I've read, the main theory by political analyzers is that, in spite of the initially ideal conditions (I'll get back to this later) it wouldn't have worked... and it would have been gone by the next elections.
But apparently this certainty didn't exist in your minds, as much as you believe in capitalism, so instead of waiting for the next elections you helped send the country into a dictatorship without thinking of the horrifying consequences, or perhaps simply ignoring them.
How can a democracy, any kind of democracy, be worse than a DICTATORSHIP? Can you even grasp the concept of what a dictatorship implies? I assure you you wouldn't view this matter so lightly if your country had been through one, like most of southamerica did thanks your little interventions.
About the economy... you say you didn't need to sabotage it. Then why the fuck did you do it? Part of the declassified CIA documents detail how, from the very beginning of the communist goverment, you helped the unhappy companies organize to intetionally damage the economy, and even went as far as to spark violence in demonstrations to help create civil unrest.
This wasn't Cuba. This was still a democratic society that would have reverted to socialism (or possibly elected a right wing goverment, since the leftist one failed) in about a year. If we maneged to survive for four years of democratic communism with you pulling the strings to make everything go wrong, we would have survived one more year to reach the new elections.
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