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Quote:
MisterJLA said:
Thank you, G-man.
That's why I posted the two quotes...communism is a fucked up enough system, we didn't need to sabotage it.
By sabotage, I meant making sure financial aid stopped flowing in to the country, which I have no problem with.
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But apparently this certainty didn't exist in your minds, as much as you believe in capitalism, so instead of waiting for the next elections you helped send the country into a dictatorship without thinking of the horrifying consequences, or perhaps simply ignoring them.
It wasn't the fear of communism succeeding financially, it was the concern that we would have another Communist country posing a security threat to us, like Cuba.
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How can a democracy, any kind of democracy, be worse than a DICTATORSHIP? Can you even grasp the concept of what a dictatorship implies? I assure you you wouldn't view this matter so lightly if your country had been through one, like most of southamerica did thanks your little interventions.
As I stated before, I have no qualms with the politcal and economic pressure that was applied. I do disagree with overthrowing a government that was elected, and supporting a dictatorship, in this case.
We currently do deal with some unsavory governments now of out of sheer necessity, but they didn't replace elected governments, which made Chile unique.
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About the economy... you say you didn't need to sabotage it. Then why the fuck did you do it? Part of the declassified CIA documents detail how, from the very beginning of the communist goverment, you helped the unhappy companies organize to intetionally damage the economy, and even went as far as to spark violence in demonstrations to help create civil unrest.
Economic pressure was used to get the government out. I don't think we had to do a whole lot with organizing companies...the government was nationalizing businesses, which put a lot of fear into other countries. The Marxist government's policies did plenty to piss off people and cause unrest.
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This wasn't Cuba. This was still a democratic society that would have reverted to socialism (or possibly elected a right wing goverment, since the leftist one failed) in about a year. If we maneged to survive for four years of democratic communism with you pulling the strings to make everything go wrong, we would have survived one more year to reach the new elections.
You give us way too much blame. We sped up the fall of the marxist government, but they were pretty apt at destroying themselves.
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We'll never find out, will we? Go read the declassified documents. Destroying the economy was a great part.
I want to make clear that I'm not defending communism, I'm simply defending a country's basic right to choose it's own path and fail or succeed on its own, without the "defenders of freedom" taking away ours (because for some reason it was your decision to make).
On that subject, I have a very simple question for anyone reading this: at what point did your country start being more important than mine? I know it seems like a stupid question, since you're in AMERICA and I'm chile, but please take the time to answer. I'm asking because what you did back then was basically shoot a man to take their liver because you might need it to save yourself. What's ironic is that it's pathologic comformists (a.k.a. conservatives) the ones who defend crimes like these... the same people who don't think the life of a fetus should be spared to save a fully developed life think a whole society can be spared to help unnecessarily ensure the survival of another. You only say the end justifies the means when it gives you peace of mind.
What disturbs me the most about this whole thing is that 30 years have gone by since the crime and the criminal still goes unpunished. Nothing has happened to prevent this from happening again if from your enlightened point of view it was deemed necessary. The closest thing to an apology has been Colin Powell saying it wasn't a part of American history he was proud of. Your September 11th has been avenged by two wars. Our September 11th, the one where "an attack against freedom" wasn't a pretty phrase used by a president but an actual description of what happened, still goes unavenged.
How you can be aware of crimes against humanity like these and still think you live in "the greatest country in the world" is beyond me.
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I'm sorry if I sound upset, but... fuck it, I am. Put yourself in my place and suddenly you wouldn't see things so lightly.
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As near as I can tell, basically, INMM is upset we didn't allow his country to live under a half century of Castro-style oppression.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
As near as I can tell, basically, INMM is upset we didn't allow his country to live under a half century of Castro-style oppression.
Yes. Instead, he got Stalin like oppression.
I'm sorry, but you guys are being very short sighted about this. You ignore the fact that the American government usurped the democratic process to win a pissing contest with the Soviet Union. Once again we were ready to put someone in power as long as they said they like us and give us the lip service we wanted without thinking about what happens to the citizens of another nation. Remember that that's how Castro got into power. The US around that time had the horrible habit of doing such things.
I think the main problem here is that Mxy's called you guys out. You've used this forum to criticize and bash other countries for their policies and reactions; but you can't seem to accept some outside criticism from someone who's life has been directly affected by US foreign policy. America isn't perfect, but I still love it and think that it is the greatest nation in the world. I am still willing to realize that we haven't done everything perfect. Sounds like quite a few of you need to do the same.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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At the time Gen. Pinochet took power, Chile was on the verge of becoming another totalitarian Communist dictatorship.
Its easy to engage in Monday morning quarterbacking and say the Chilean military should have stood by and let Communism have its day in the country.
However, one thing is for sure: under a Communist regime, the scale of human rights atrocities would have been immeasurably larger and the immiseration that accompanied life under Communism elsewhere would have led to Chile's rapid decline.
For all his significant flaws, Pinochet made his country the free market success story and model for Latin America. The Cuban Communist showcase is a flop by comparison.
So, while perhaps a valid criticism can be made that US shouldn't have meddled, an equally, or more, valid argument can be made that it ultimately made things better than if the Communists took over.
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But why was it the US's decision to make. If the Chilean people wanted to rebel against a communist dictatorship, shouldn't they have been given that chance before the US got involved? I think a people should be given the chance to fight for themselves. If they are made incapable of doing so, then I think it is okay for the US to intercede and assist like we did against Saddam and the Taliban. The fact is is that the people of Chile didn't get to decide their fate. The US decided it for them. This country ignored the principles it was supposed to defend to keep the USSR from getting another one on their score card.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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That's happened quite a few times, and a lot of the current shitstorm in the Middle East might not be quite so bad if we didn't have such a nasty habit of manufacturing dictators.  But I still think our overall track record as a nation is pretty admirable. We're not the only ones to leave big-ass messes behind - we spent most of the twentieth century cleaning up the mess that imperialistic powers like Great Britain and France made of the nineteenth century. Everyone's got some skeletons in the closet. It's just that we as a nation aren't permitted the luxury of a closet door.
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I already admitted that trying to stage a coup against an *elected *government and supporting the dictatorship that followed was wrong. I actually did this more than once.
Just because I'm not willing to join the "Blame America for everything bad that has happened in the world" crowd doesn't mean that I think America's perfect.
I do think America is the greatest and most important country in world, because we have done more to advance the cause of freedom more than any other country in the world. We did this through military, economic, and political means. We do the best job of providing opportunities for individuals to succeed, and that's the reason why people from all over the world fight to be here.
I think the people in Germany, Italy, Japan, Iraq, and Afghanistan (and more) can attest to the importance of Uncle Sam.
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Quote:
MisterJLA said:
I do think America is the greatest and most important country in world, because we have done more to advance the cause of freedom more than any other country in the world. We did this through military, economic, and political means. We do the best job of providing opportunities for individuals to succeed, and that's the reason why people from all over the world fight to be here.
I think it was the Glorious Revolution in England in the late 1680's that really advanced the cause of freedom. The king and queen chose to turn the British crown into a Constitutional Monarchy. There's this idea that the founding fathers rebelled against some horrible tyrants, but it really had more to do with taxes and economy than anything else.
Also, the American government fucked over the Indians pretty good. Sure, it was started by Europeon powers, but the first 100 years after the Declaration of Independence was spent on aquiring what was left of the Indian land on this continent.
Also, the US was one of the last big holdouts towards slavery (which ended due to a shifting economy base and abolitionist protestors).
Also, the US didn't enter the WWs out of nobility. We entered out of vengeance for attacks that declassified information shows our own government allowed to happen.
Also, the US fucked over Iran in the 1950's (which layed the seeds for the anti-sentiment there today), helped build up Saddam, and pretty much started Al queda.
Meanwhile our "War on Terror" and "Enduring Freedom" has ignored Africa and countries with REAL WMDs.
Bow ties are coool.
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Nice list. I wish I hadn't heard it from about a hundred other posters. Way to bring original content to the table. 
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Quote:
I think it was the Glorious Revolution in England in the late 1680's that really advanced the cause of freedom. The king and queen chose to turn the British crown into a Constitutional Monarchy. There's this idea that the founding fathers rebelled against some horrible tyrants, but it really had more to do with taxes and economy than anything else.
No, it really had to do with Americans being taxed with representation in their own affairs. "No taxation without representation" might have even been a catchy slogan at the time...
Oh, and Gandhi might disagree with you about England advancing the cause of freedom...
Quote:
Also, the American government fucked over the Indians pretty good. Sure, it was started by Europeon powers, but the first 100 years after the Declaration of Independence was spent on aquiring what was left of the Indian land on this continent.
Basically.
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The US was one of the last big holdouts towards slavery (which ended due to a shifting economy base and abolitionist protestors).
That thing called the "Civil War" might have had something to do with it, also. I think more American lives were lost in that war, than any other.
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The US didn't enter the WWs out of nobility. We entered out of vengeance for attacks that declassified information shows our own government allowed to happen.
"Vengeance"? That's a funny way to label the act of protecting ourselves. I guess we just should have asked the Germans to stop sinking our merchant ships in WWI, and we should have looked the other way with the bombing of Pearl Harbor in WWII.
And we did try to stay out of the wars, since we didn't want to be labeled "Yankee imperialist dogs" or something, but we did fund the allies in both wars, before we were drawn in.
Quote:
Also, the US fucked over Iran in the 1950's (which layed the seeds for the anti-sentiment there today), helped build up Saddam, and pretty much started Al queda.
Iran fucked themselves over (really their leader did) by nationalizing the oil industry in the 50's. We are currently trying to undo our mistakes of trusting Saddam and helping the Afghans (who will later become Al queda) defeat the brutal Soviet invasion.
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Meanwhile our "War on Terror" and "Enduring Freedom" has ignored Africa and countries with REAL WMDs.
If we expanded our scope, people would be bitching about Yankee imperialism. And we're good, but we can't solve all the world's problems.
Please pour my soda into a cold mug.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
MisterJLA said:
I do think America is the greatest and most important country in world, because we have done more to advance the cause of freedom more than any other country in the world. We did this through military, economic, and political means. We do the best job of providing opportunities for individuals to succeed, and that's the reason why people from all over the world fight to be here.
I think it was the Glorious Revolution in England in the late 1680's that really advanced the cause of freedom. The king and queen chose to turn the British crown into a Constitutional Monarchy. There's this idea that the founding fathers rebelled against some horrible tyrants, but it really had more to do with taxes and economy than anything else.
Also, the American government fucked over the Indians pretty good. Sure, it was started by Europeon powers, but the first 100 years after the Declaration of Independence was spent on aquiring what was left of the Indian land on this continent.
Also, the US was one of the last big holdouts towards slavery (which ended due to a shifting economy base and abolitionist protestors).
Also, the US didn't enter the WWs out of nobility. We entered out of vengeance for attacks that declassified information shows our own government allowed to happen.
Also, the US fucked over Iran in the 1950's (which layed the seeds for the anti-sentiment there today), helped build up Saddam, and pretty much started Al queda.
Meanwhile our "War on Terror" and "Enduring Freedom" has ignored Africa and countries with REAL WMDs.
slavery hasn't totally ended......now go and get everyone some sodas bitch.
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Quote:
PJP said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
MisterJLA said:
I do think America is the greatest and most important country in world, because we have done more to advance the cause of freedom more than any other country in the world. We did this through military, economic, and political means. We do the best job of providing opportunities for individuals to succeed, and that's the reason why people from all over the world fight to be here.
I think it was the Glorious Revolution in England in the late 1680's that really advanced the cause of freedom. The king and queen chose to turn the British crown into a Constitutional Monarchy. There's this idea that the founding fathers rebelled against some horrible tyrants, but it really had more to do with taxes and economy than anything else.
Also, the American government fucked over the Indians pretty good. Sure, it was started by Europeon powers, but the first 100 years after the Declaration of Independence was spent on aquiring what was left of the Indian land on this continent.
Also, the US was one of the last big holdouts towards slavery (which ended due to a shifting economy base and abolitionist protestors).
Also, the US didn't enter the WWs out of nobility. We entered out of vengeance for attacks that declassified information shows our own government allowed to happen.
Also, the US fucked over Iran in the 1950's (which layed the seeds for the anti-sentiment there today), helped build up Saddam, and pretty much started Al queda.
Meanwhile our "War on Terror" and "Enduring Freedom" has ignored Africa and countries with REAL WMDs.
slavery hasn't totally ended......now go and get everyone some sodas bitch.
Why thank you PJP, could you ask your hippy to get mine with light ice. Sorry to be a bother, but my hippies were all fired for getting high all the time.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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it'd be my pleasure.....I'll even give him a good kicking for you and tell him who it was from. 
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
That's happened quite a few times, and a lot of the current shitstorm in the Middle East might not be quite so bad if we didn't have such a nasty habit of manufacturing dictators. But I still think our overall track record as a nation is pretty admirable. We're not the only ones to leave big-ass messes behind - we spent most of the twentieth century cleaning up the mess that imperialistic powers like Great Britain and France made of the nineteenth century. Everyone's got some skeletons in the closet. It's just that we as a nation aren't permitted the luxury of a closet door.
The point is not if we were the only ones to do it. The point is that Mxy should have a right to say what he feels without being marginalized because it goes against the grain of some of the posters on this board. This is one of our nation's fuck ups, and we need to admit it. We took out one possibly dangerous government to impose one that was friendly to our policies but harsh on its own people.
Quote:
MisterJLA said:
I already admitted that trying to stage a coup against an *elected *government and supporting the dictatorship that followed was wrong. I actually did this more than once.
Just because I'm not willing to join the "Blame America for everything bad that has happened in the world" crowd doesn't mean that I think America's perfect.
I do think America is the greatest and most important country in world, because we have done more to advance the cause of freedom more than any other country in the world. We did this through military, economic, and political means. We do the best job of providing opportunities for individuals to succeed, and that's the reason why people from all over the world fight to be here.
I think the people in Germany, Italy, Japan, Iraq, and Afghanistan (and more) can attest to the importance of Uncle Sam.
I have a problem with the people who did see no wrong in what our nation did in Chile and try to rationalize it while demeaning Mxy's point of view. There are some people, G-man especially, who should do the morally right thing and apologize to Mxy for distorting his words and treating him like a second class person for holding an oppossing view based on his own personal experiences.
We sure as shit helped out Europe and Asia after WWII. Iraq is going to be a country that decides where it goes from here on out because of us. But what happened in Chile and Cuba are also directly related to what our nation did in the past. As well as Iraq and Afghanistan turning into the nations they were before we went to war with them. We've done good and bad. I have a problem with people who think that we've only done one of those. We're not flawless, nor are we evil tyrants. We're Americans. Which means we can screw up while doing what we think is best.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
PJP said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
Quote:
MisterJLA said:
I do think America is the greatest and most important country in world, because we have done more to advance the cause of freedom more than any other country in the world. We did this through military, economic, and political means. We do the best job of providing opportunities for individuals to succeed, and that's the reason why people from all over the world fight to be here.
I think it was the Glorious Revolution in England in the late 1680's that really advanced the cause of freedom. The king and queen chose to turn the British crown into a Constitutional Monarchy. There's this idea that the founding fathers rebelled against some horrible tyrants, but it really had more to do with taxes and economy than anything else.
Also, the American government fucked over the Indians pretty good. Sure, it was started by Europeon powers, but the first 100 years after the Declaration of Independence was spent on aquiring what was left of the Indian land on this continent.
Also, the US was one of the last big holdouts towards slavery (which ended due to a shifting economy base and abolitionist protestors).
Also, the US didn't enter the WWs out of nobility. We entered out of vengeance for attacks that declassified information shows our own government allowed to happen.
Also, the US fucked over Iran in the 1950's (which layed the seeds for the anti-sentiment there today), helped build up Saddam, and pretty much started Al queda.
Meanwhile our "War on Terror" and "Enduring Freedom" has ignored Africa and countries with REAL WMDs.
slavery hasn't totally ended......now go and get everyone some sodas bitch.
hence the wording "one of the last big holdouts towards slavery" not the last holdout.
Bow ties are coool.
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I'm waiting...Kidding. 
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Quote:
the G-man said:
As near as I can tell, basically, INMM is upset we didn't allow his country to live under a half century of Castro-style oppression.
Let me put it this way: elections still existed when we were under the communist goverment.
We didn't have elections for 17 years under Pinochet.
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By the way I'm honestly sorry for attacking your love for your country before, that was completely out of place, even given the subject at hand... I'm impressed with most of you guys for not telling me to fuck off after that... especially with MisterJLA.
G-Man, however, continues to disappoint me, not politically as he always has, but as a person. Think about this, man: if we were talking about this ten years ago, before the CIA documents were declassified, I'm sure you would have called me a conspiracy crackpot for believing that the US had anything to do with Pinochet coming to power. Even now that the truth is out you rationalize it to find a way to make the US smell like roses. You gotta ask yourself, isn't that a bit too much? Try looking at your attitude towards this situation from an objective point of view and tell me you're not bordering on mental illness.
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Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
By the way I'm honestly sorry for attacking your love for your country before, that was completely out of place, even given the subject at hand... I'm impressed with most of you guys for not telling me to fuck off after that... especially with MisterJLA.
G-Man, however, continues to disappoint me, not politically as he always has, but as a person. Think about this, man: if we were talking about this ten years ago, before the CIA documents were declassified, I'm sure you would have called me a conspiracy crackpot for believing that the US had anything to do with Pinochet coming to power. Even now that the truth is out you rationalize it to find a way to make the US smell like roses. You gotta ask yourself, isn't that a bit too much? Try looking at your attitude towards this situation from an objective point of view and tell me you're not bordering on mental illness.
Do you want me to tell you to fuck off for old time's sake?
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Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
As near as I can tell, basically, INMM is upset we didn't allow his country to live under a half century of Castro-style oppression.
Let me put it this way: elections still existed when we were under the communist goverment.
We didn't have elections for 17 years under Pinochet.
Is that Bronson Pinochet, star of Perfect Strangers?
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Yeah, his hobbies including mountain climbing and ruling third world countries. Quote:
MisterJLA said:
Do you want me to tell you to fuck off for old time's sake?
No, that would only make me nostalgic. I get sad when I'm nostalgic.
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AMERICA OWNS THE WORLD ASSWIPE!!
DEAL WITH IT!!!
[url=http://www.robkamphausen.com/ubbthreads/...e=0&fpart=2 ]the G-man said[/url]
Wednesday and I have an open relationship. And we believe in sharing.
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The other day I bought some red seedless grapes from Chile.....they were delicious.
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Quote:
I'm Not Mister Mxypltk said:
G-Man, however, continues to disappoint me, not politically as he always has, but as a person. Think about this, man: if we were talking about this ten years ago, before the CIA documents were declassified, I'm sure you would have called me a conspiracy crackpot for believing that the US had anything to do with Pinochet coming to power.
That's an interesting, albeit, unsupported accusation.
This entire thread began nearly a hlaf-dozen pages ago with a post that accused the US government of a number of alleged misdeeds. However, I never called out R3x as a "conspiracy crackpot."
As such, why do you feel the need to assume how I would have reacted ten years ago to a similar allegation?
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Even now that the truth is out you rationalize it to find a way to make the US smell like roses. You gotta ask yourself, isn't that a bit too much? Try looking at your attitude towards this situation from an objective point of view and tell me you're not bordering on mental illness.
Obviously, neither of us is "objective," insofar as we both have beliefs, ideologies, opinions, etc.
We simply choose to disagree here. That doesn't make anyone "bordering on mental illness."
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Quote:
Jeff Gannon said:
AMERICA OWNS THE WORLD ASSWIPE!!
DEAL WITH IT!!!
Definetely whomod.
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Quote:
the G-man said:That's an interesting, albeit, unsupported accusation.
This entire thread began nearly a hlaf-dozen pages ago with a post that accused the US government of a number of alleged misdeeds. However, I never called out R3x as a "conspiracy crackpot."
As such, why do you feel the need to assume how I would have reacted ten years ago to a similar allegation?
Point is, would you have ever believed that your country had anything to do with Pinochet coming to power if the documents had never been declassified? I don't think so. I think you would find the notion ridiculous and call me a communist for even suggesting it.
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Obviously, neither of us is "objective," insofar as we both have beliefs, ideologies, opinions, etc.
We simply choose to disagree here. That doesn't make anyone "bordering on mental illness."
One thing is having certainties and a completely different thing is being in constant denial from the truth even when your peers recognize it (MisterJLA, thedoctor... Colin Powell...). Has your country, under a republican goverment, ever done anything wrong, in your view? If sending a country into a dictatorship isn't enough for you to admit that your country fucked up, what is?
What your country did in 1973 is unnacceptable under any circumstances. The fact that you still find a way to be comfortable with that speaks volumes.
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I jsut think it's tragic that we had that Machiavellian tendency to manufacture dictators in the name of freedom and democracy.
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Quote:
Point is, would you have ever believed that your country had anything to do with Pinochet coming to power if the documents had never been declassified? I don't think so.
Well, we have to agree to disagree, then.
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If sending a country into a dictatorship isn't enough for you to admit that your country fucked up, what is?
This assumes your country wasn't heading into dictatorship anyway.
As a historical fact, every single communist government on earth has been a dictatorship. If, as you admit, the alternative to Pinochet was a communist government, then the alternative to our "sending [you] into a dictatorship" was you sending yourself into a dictatorship.
I'm simply noting that reality.
You might argue that the U.S. had no "right" to decide which form of dictatorship you got and that you should have been able to choose which form of dictatorship you had. And on that you may have a valid point.
However, even on that point, you need to accept that you still would have been under a dictatorship anyway.
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Every communist goverment until that point was a dictatorship... except this one, which is why it scared you so much. Before you decide that what I just said is commie talk as you've been programmed to think, remember that I'm simply stating a fact. A communist goverment, however bad to the economy, that didn't make the country explode, was more dangerous to you than another communist dictatorship. If things reverted back to normal after the next elections, as they would have, we would have proven that a country can survive a communist goverment and repair itself. You sent us into a dictatorship to show what happens when a country decides to go red... except the dictatorship wasn't there because of communism, it was there because of you. In a way, you made the tradition repeat itself.
We survived three years without sinking a dictatorship, even when you were doing your best to help us ruin the economy. No, my country wasn't in a dictatorship until you helped us get into one.
It sickens me that you believe that any kind of dictatorship is better than another. Get this through your head: even if we were on the verge of a dictatorship, IT WASN'T YOUR DECISION TO MAKE. You need to be sick to think that, under any circumstances, it was.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Point is, would you have ever believed that your country had anything to do with Pinochet coming to power if the documents had never been declassified? I don't think so.
Well, we have to agree to disagree, then.
Wait, are you saying you would have believed it anyway? How anti-american of you, G-Man.
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You're trying to be clever, but not doing a very good job of it.
First off, you abscribe to me an unwillingness to believe anything negative about the U.S. to show how "pig headed" I am.
Now, when that apparently failed, you try to abscribe to me a belief that anything short of "blind obedience" to the government is "un-American."
You're also "yelling" at me that "even if we were on the verge of a dictatorship, IT WASN'T YOUR DECISION TO MAKE. You need to be sick to think that, under any circumstances, it was." However, you're doing so almost immediately after I acknowledged that very point.
Essentially, you're engaging in the old "straw man" tactic, to wit, arguing against points I didn't make, in order to discredit me, in lieu addressing points I did make.
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Essentially, you're engaging in the old "straw man" tactic, to wit, arguing against points I didn't make, in order to discredit me, in lieu addressing points I did make.
So he's doing to you what you did to him.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Actually, doctor, to this date, INMM is still arguing that a communist government would have respected the democratic process: A communist goverment [would have] reverted back to normal after the next elections...a country can survive a communist goverment and repair itself.
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That's a whole lot different from backing communism.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Actually, doctor, to this date, INMM is still arguing that a communist government would have respected the democratic process:
Correct me if I'm wrong-I'm not too well versed in late-1980's/early-1990's Russia-but isn't that how the USSR ended communism? Through elections?
Bow ties are coool.
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