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Quote:
thedoctor said:
I just remembered that quote because of your defense of AvP way back when. It just struck me as odd considering both films.
Well, my pride compelled me to find out when I'd used that phrase(I'm a terrible person, I know). I did a search for "Spiderman" posts made by me in the media forum. I didn't see anything resembling the quote you've attributed to me.
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I, too, look at movies for what they are.
Then, we agree that there's no double-standard in my finding AvP enjoyable and Spiderman not(as you seemed to imply initially). Good.
Quote:
AvP was a no-plot fight movie (with bad fight scenes), but the writer/director himself claims that his movie was to be much more and that the studio edit cut out his "plot".
The studio promoted it as nothing but a fight movie. I can neither confirm or deny your statement about the writer/director, but it seemed painfully clear to me what the project was "about" from the company's standpoint.
Quote:
Rami's Spider-man is great because it is the comic book come to life. It's great visuals and movement, a character who gets crapped on despite being a super hero, and all the bad dialogue and plots that made him a classic character to begin with.
I've never questioned that it was a faithful adaptation of the series...but, I ask you, does that make it good?
Don't get me wrong, I'd certainly like any comic book movie to resemble the source. However, it seems kind of odd to approach a project like this with the viewpoint that the best way to adapt something is too include its bad traits as well(in this case, the corny, hackneyed and cliched plots and dialogue).
Movies like X-Men, X-2 and Batman Begins(which had a few cornball lines of their own; it's true) have made it clear that a comic book franchise can be altered and still remain true. They worked. If these Spiderman movies were made in the 60's, I'd evaluate them within the context of that era. Obviously, though...they weren't.
Now, I do respect that Sam Raimi has decided to go the silver age route with Spiderman. To be honest, I've never really blamed Raimi for the Spidey-flicks(though if he played any part in casting Kirsten Dunst, that goes as a major strike against him). I just don't see that as a viable excuse for the films having so many flaws. That kind of reflects poorly on the comic books themselves, and actually makes me appreciate them less, rather than more.
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Don't kid yourself. You take this stuff way to seriously to let it go.
I'm not going to allow you cast aspersions upon my movie-integrity, if that's what you mean by "let it go". My movie-integrity is like the son I never had. My baby. My movie-integrity baby. My precious.
....but, just because I enjoy discussing movies doesn't mean I take it seriously. Unless Pariah is reading, in which case: I totally take them seriously, because I'm such a serious, unlazy guy.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Quote:
Animalman said:
Quote:
thedoctor said:
I just remembered that quote because of your defense of AvP way back when. It just struck me as odd considering both films.
Well, my pride compelled me to find out when I'd used that phrase(I'm a terrible person, I know). I did a search for "Spiderman" posts made by me in the media forum. I didn't see anything resembling the quote you've attributed to me.
I think it was a side conversation in another thread, so there's no telling where the hell it is. But a quick search did find such quoteables as:
Quote:
Animalman said:
I need more than just a popcorn flick to satisfy me.
And:
Quote:
Animalman said:
I suppose this seperates me from the modern viewer. To me, Hollywood is full of "who cares about the story, look, here are some explosions!" movies. I'd like a good story. Some interesting dialogue. An attempt at something different. Good acting.
Quote:
Animalman said:
Quote:
I, too, look at movies for what they are.
Then, we agree that there's no double-standard in my finding AvP enjoyable and Spiderman not(as you seemed to imply initially). Good.
As long as you don't try and hold one movie up to a different set of standards than another, then yes.
Quote:
Animalman said:
Quote:
AvP was a no-plot fight movie (with bad fight scenes), but the writer/director himself claims that his movie was to be much more and that the studio edit cut out his "plot".
The studio promoted it as nothing but a fight movie. I can neither confirm or deny your statement about the writer/director, but it seemed painfully clear to me what the project was "about" from the company's standpoint.
Because the studio both wrote and directed the film and therefore were directly responsible for the film itself and not just how it looked on the TV commercials. 
By this standard, The Last Action Hero is an absolutely terrible movie because it wasn't the cliche action movie that the studio promoted but a smart, satirical look at the action genre and Hollywood in general.
Quote:
Animalman said:
Quote:
Rami's Spider-man is great because it is the comic book come to life. It's great visuals and movement, a character who gets crapped on despite being a super hero, and all the bad dialogue and plots that made him a classic character to begin with.
I've never questioned that it was a faithful adaptation of the series...but, I ask you, does that make it good?
Don't get me wrong, I'd certainly like any comic book movie to resemble the source. However, it seems kind of odd to approach a project like this with the viewpoint that the best way to adapt something is too include its bad traits as well(in this case, the corny, hackneyed and cliched plots and dialogue).
Movies like X-Men, X-2 and Batman Begins(which had a few cornball lines of their own; it's true) have made it clear that a comic book franchise can be altered and still remain true. They worked. If these Spiderman movies were made in the 60's, I'd evaluate them within the context of that era. Obviously, though...they weren't.
Now, I do respect that Sam Raimi has decided to go the silver age route with Spiderman. To be honest, I've never really blamed Raimi for the Spidey-flicks(though if he played any part in casting Kirsten Dunst, that goes as a major strike against him). I just don't see that as a viable excuse for the films having so many flaws. That kind of reflects poorly on the comic books themselves, and actually makes me appreciate them less, rather than more.
The movies work because they're fun with a dash of tragedy in them. You get the sense of the shitty life Parker has to lead without being weighed down too much with it. It's a fun movie that's supposed to match the excitement of reading the books as a kid, and it works.
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Animalman said:
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Don't kid yourself. You take this stuff way to seriously to let it go.
I'm not going to allow you cast aspersions upon my movie-integrity, if that's what you mean by "let it go". My movie-integrity is like the son I never had. My baby. My movie-integrity baby. My precious.
....but, just because I enjoy discussing movies doesn't mean I take it seriously. Unless Pariah is reading, in which case: I totally take them seriously, because I'm such a serious, unlazy guy.
Son you never had, huh? Just seems to me like you're using him to collect the welfare. He sits in the corner trying to jab loose change into the electric socket while you sit in front of the TV playing Playstation games and drinking from a bottle of Wild Turkey. You make me sick.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
I think it was a side conversation in another thread, so there's no telling where the hell it is. But a quick search did find such quoteables as:
Quote:
Animalman said:
I need more than just a popcorn flick to satisfy me.
I didn't intend that as a stand-alone comment about movies in general, but rather about my lack of faith in Spiderman-2 specifically based on my dissapointment from Spiderman(which would become clearer if you included the entire quote).
Quote:
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Animalman said:
I suppose this seperates me from the modern viewer. To me, Hollywood is full of "who cares about the story, look, here are some explosions!" movies. I'd like a good story. Some interesting dialogue. An attempt at something different. Good acting.
I would like that. Those are all nice things. Things I like.
Quote:
Because the studio both wrote and directed the film and therefore were directly responsible for the film itself and not just how it looked on the TV commercials.
The TV commercials corresponded to the finished product.
I don't know if it was simply Anderson's ineptness, or the studio editing the crap out of the movie, or what, but my movie viewing experience led me to believe that the emphasis was on fight sequences and special effects(and that that was the intent), not plot or story. As that was what I was expecting based on reviews, trailers, commercials, etc...I wasn't dissapointed. Was it a great movie, though? Of course not.
To me, it had a clear goal in mind, and it accomplished that goal(or, at least, came very close). The Spiderman movies seemed to try to hard to be soap operas, and came off as melodramatic and trite.
Quote:
By this standard, The Last Action Hero is an absolutely terrible movie because it wasn't the cliche action movie that the studio promoted but a smart, satirical look at the action genre and Hollywood in general.
The studio completedly mismarketed Last Action Hero, which was probably a big reason why it didn't do well at the boxoffice. It was very sad. Still, just because it's not exactly as it appears based on trailers doesn't mean it can't be an enjoyable film. Last Action Hero surprised me, but pleasantly so. It was different, and better than what I was expecting. Nothing wrong with that.
More often than not, though, I've found when a film is not what I'm expecting...it's not in the good way.
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The movies work because they're fun with a dash of tragedy in them. You get the sense of the shitty life Parker has to lead without being weighed down too much with it. It's a fun movie that's supposed to match the excitement of reading the books as a kid, and it works.
I think I see your point. I suffocated the inner-kid in me many years ago.
Seriously, there are movies that bring out the inner-kid in me. Truthfully, I'm still a kid, pretty much. Hell, Rob didn't like the movies, and he's about as childlike as anyone I know!
I believe my inner kid is frightened by bad puns and James Franco's hair.
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Son you never had, huh? Just seems to me like you're using him to collect the welfare. He sits in the corner trying to jab loose change into the electric socket while you sit in front of the TV playing Playstation games and drinking from a bottle of Wild Turkey. You make me sick.
His mother was my faith in George Lucas. After she hanged herself, poor junior just never quite was the same.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Quote:
Animalman said:
Quote:
thedoctor said:
I think it was a side conversation in another thread, so there's no telling where the hell it is. But a quick search did find such quoteables as:
Quote:
Animalman said:
I need more than just a popcorn flick to satisfy me.
I didn't intend that as a stand-alone comment about movies in general, but rather about my lack of faith in Spiderman-2 specifically based on my dissapointment from Spiderman(which would become clearer if you included the entire quote).
The quote in its entirety is:
Quote:
I will see this movie, out of obligation as a comic fan...but I don't expect to enjoy it. I didn't like Spiderman much. I need more than just a popcorn flick to satisfy me.
That pretty much still says that you desire "more than just a popcorn flick" as the way I originally posted indicated. This shows that you're obviously holding the Spider-Man franchise up to a higher standard.
Quote:
Animalman said:Quote:
Quote:
Animalman said:
I suppose this seperates me from the modern viewer. To me, Hollywood is full of "who cares about the story, look, here are some explosions!" movies. I'd like a good story. Some interesting dialogue. An attempt at something different. Good acting.
I would like that. Those are all nice things. Things I like.
None of which were in AvP, which you liked. Once again a double standard.
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Animalman said:
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Because the studio both wrote and directed the film and therefore were directly responsible for the film itself and not just how it looked on the TV commercials.
The TV commercials corresponded to the finished product.
Wrong. Teasers and trailers correspond to how the studio wants you to perceive the film. There have been many instances where I've been surprised by a film that wasn't the same as the way it was marketed. Your point here is weakened by your own statements later on:
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Animalman said:
The studio completedly mismarketed Last Action Hero, which was probably a big reason why it didn't do well at the boxoffice. It was very sad. Still, just because it's not exactly as it appears based on trailers doesn't mean it can't be an enjoyable film. Last Action Hero surprised me, but pleasantly so. It was different, and better than what I was expecting. Nothing wrong with that.
Quote:
Animalman said:
I don't know if it was simply Anderson's ineptness, or the studio editing the crap out of the movie, or what, but my movie viewing experience led me to believe that the emphasis was on fight sequences and special effects(and that that was the intent), not plot or story. As that was what I was expecting based on reviews, trailers, commercials, etc...I wasn't dissapointed. Was it a great movie, though? Of course not.
To me, it had a clear goal in mind, and it accomplished that goal(or, at least, came very close). The Spiderman movies seemed to try to hard to be soap operas, and came off as melodramatic and trite.
I contend that the fight scenes were crap. And the movie didn't accomplish all it was meant to. Obviously, Anderson tried to get you to sympathize with a few of the characters so that their deaths seemed more than just fodder for the Aliens, and he didn't. I didn't give a good goddamn about any of those characters. Not even Spud from Trainspotting.
Quote:
Animalman said:
I think I see your point. I suffocated the inner-kid in me many years ago.
Seriously, there are movies that bring out the inner-kid in me. Truthfully, I'm still a kid, pretty much. Hell, Rob didn't like the movies, and he's about as childlike as anyone I know!
I think Robo also admitted to never liking the Spider-Man comic book and being up Batman's arse. So that would be like Joe Mama going to a Yankee's game and actually saying something nice about the team.
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Animalman said:
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Son you never had, huh? Just seems to me like you're using him to collect the welfare. He sits in the corner trying to jab loose change into the electric socket while you sit in front of the TV playing Playstation games and drinking from a bottle of Wild Turkey. You make me sick.
His mother was my faith in George Lucas. After she hanged herself, poor junior just never quite was the same.
You better get yourself checked out. From what I understand, Lucas has done the exact same thing all over the world.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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just to chime in. Aliens vs. Predator was a terrible movie with none of the good points from their respective franchises.
It was a good idea to combine the two, but ultimately pointless and boring.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
That pretty much still says that you desire "more than just a popcorn flick" as the way I originally posted indicated. This shows that you're obviously holding the Spider-Man franchise up to a higher standard.
It doesn't, and I'm not. As I already explained, the two films had different goals, and, in my mind, AvP came closer to reaching its goals than Spiderman did. Simple as that.
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None of which were in AvP, which you liked. Once again a double standard.
Again, no. Saying I like story and plot doesn't mean I hate every movie that doesn't have much of one. To make a claim like "best comic book movie ever"(as many did with Spiderman or Spiderman 2), a plot is pretty crucial. I never made remotely as positive a statement about AvP. Infact, as I said in the old thread, if anything, most of the entertainment I derived from it was from the(possibly unintentional) hilarity of a lot of the buddy-buddy scenes involving the Predator.
It was a stupid movie. But fun stupid. That was the extent of my enjoyment.
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Wrong. Teasers and trailers correspond to how the studio wants you to perceive the film. There have been many instances where I've been surprised by a film that wasn't the same as the way it was marketed. Your point here is weakened by your own statements later on
I think you misread my post. I wasn't making the general comment that trailers correspond to the movie. I was saying that this movie(AvP)'s trailers corresponded to its final product. Edited, not edited, it doesn't really matter. The studio aimed low and delivered low. That's probably why they ended up raking in nearly twice what it cost to make.
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I contend that the fight scenes were crap. And the movie didn't accomplish all it was meant to. Obviously, Anderson tried to get you to sympathize with a few of the characters so that their deaths seemed more than just fodder for the Aliens, and he didn't. I didn't give a good goddamn about any of those characters. Not even Spud from Trainspotting.
I didn't think he tried to do that at all. Well, I mean, maybe a little, but not much, because the human characters were barely in it. The main attraction was, as the title suggested, the Alien/Predator fights.
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I think Robo also admitted to never liking the Spider-Man comic book and being up Batman's arse. So that would be like Joe Mama going to a Yankee's game and actually saying something nice about the team.
I wasn't overly impressed by the old Crow comics I read, but I liked the first movie a lot. I've never read a Rocketeer comic and I liked that movie a good bit, too.
Clearly, to have made so much money, Spiderman's following has to extend beyond comic fans. It wouldn't have been nearly as successful if it was an esoteric film.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
just to chime in. Aliens vs. Predator was a terrible movie with none of the good points from their respective franchises.
It was a good idea to combine the two, but ultimately pointless and boring.
I think the biggest mistake was trying to combine two "R" rated franchises into a PG-13 movie.
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Quote:
NotWedge said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
just to chime in. Aliens vs. Predator was a terrible movie with none of the good points from their respective franchises.
It was a good idea to combine the two, but ultimately pointless and boring.
I think the biggest mistake was trying to combine two "R" rated franchises into a PG-13 movie.
they also made it too "sci-fi" the best bits of those franchises was the aspect of it being these monsters invading the human's world, not the humans in the monster's world.
Bow ties are coool.
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Some desktop images from the official site.
a fourth one is "coming soon". Its rumored to be a full on venom pic.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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There was a trailer shown at comic-con that had venom in it. I don't know when it will be released to the general public.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
Jeremy said:
Topher Grace being turned into Venom. This might, indeed, be just as fine a movie as the previous two.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Spidey 3 is going to kick FUCKING ass!
"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] ![[Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com]](http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/captainsammitch/boards/banners/blogban3.jpg) [/center] [center] ![[Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com]](http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/captainsammitch/boards/banners/jlamiska.jpg) [/center]
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November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] [/center] [center] [/center]
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I'm hoping I'm not setting my expectations too high. There's still a long time to go and I'm really excited about this one.
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Quote:
MisterJLA said:
wOOt!
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The first one was...okay. The second one, thought, Raimi won me over with. As for this one...given the overabundance of characters they seem to be shoving into this movie, I will wait patiently and reserve judgement for when it comes out. Look pretty neat, so far, though...
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Spoiler warning... Ready? Here it is the SPOILER: For those who think there aren't enough villains in the movie yet, I present the following IMDb entry:Quote:
Bruce Campbell .... Quentin Beck/Mysterio (rumored)
Please note that this is only a rumor at this time. I think this could be sort of cool, if it isn't a major part of the story, if it's just something thrown in for fun. I'd like it if he's actually been playing the same guy all along, and he's built up a big grudge against Spidey with Spidey being largely unaware of his existance. Then, he shws up in a goofy, elaborate costume to exact his "revenge". Something similar was done in an episode of Gargoyles, but I think it would work here too.
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Or Spidey fights and bags him at the beginning of the movie, then you don't see him again.
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Quote:
NotWedge said:
Something similar was done in an episode of Gargoyles, but I think it would work here too.
That was an AWESOME episode.
Hudson- "Who in the world was that?"
Goliath- "... I have no idea."
Hudson- "Mmm... Banana cream."
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Quote:
Jeremy said:
Or Spidey fights and bags him at the beginning of the movie, then you don't see him again.
They did that in Ultimate Spider-Man.
I'd be kinda upset if they didn't have Mysterio as a full movie villian. I don't like him that much but he would be great for the movies.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Behold my (lack of) picture editing talent! 
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Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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See, it's Bruce Campbell's head in Mysterio's fishbowl. I'm gonna go somewhere and try to pass it off as a leaked image from the comic book adaption. Internet fanboys are so dumb, they're sure to fall for it. And then, phase three is profit.
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Try newsarama, they're really gullible over there.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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I'm afraid to go there, it's full of rassists
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Quote:
NotWedge said:
See, it's Bruce Campbell's head in Mysterio's fishbowl. I'm gonna go somewhere and try to pass it off as a leaked image from the comic book adaption. Internet fanboys are so dumb, they're sure to fall for it. And then, phase three is profit.
What's phase two?
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,900
notnotnotnotnotnotnotwedge 2500+ posts
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notnotnotnotnotnotnotwedge 2500+ posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,900 |
er, phase three is profit
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 977
Eat Me 500+ posts
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Eat Me 500+ posts
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 977 |
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,900
notnotnotnotnotnotnotwedge 2500+ posts
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notnotnotnotnotnotnotwedge 2500+ posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,900 |
Sorry, this clip doesn't have Venom or the black costume in it, but Spider-Man is acting kind of strangely. There's a surprise guest appearance too.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308 |
A new trailer will be shown with the new James bond movie.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 15,546
Living the dream 15000+ posts
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Living the dream 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 15,546 |
And it'll be online on Thursday.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 23,091
The Once, and Future Cunt 15000+ posts
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The Once, and Future Cunt 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 23,091 |
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,305
kung-fu treachery 5000+ posts
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kung-fu treachery 5000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,305 |
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308 |
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308 |
Sandman as Uncle Bens real killer?
I'm not too crazy about that but I'm still excited about this movie.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,305
kung-fu treachery 5000+ posts
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kung-fu treachery 5000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,305 |
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 19,633
I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 19,633 |
Movie continuity rarely follows comic book continuity. It's like the difference between the Harry Potter books and movies; the movies are similar to the books, yet they diverge from them at certain points.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308
Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 46,308 |
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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