RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events The Issue of Terri Schiavo

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Darknight613 said:
Here's an editorial I came across, written by a columnist who seems to specialize in church/state issues. First, lemme give you the author's credentials (or whatever the term is)

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20050421.html

Marci A. Hamilton is the Paul R. Verkuil Chair in Public Law at Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law, Yeshiva University. An archive of her columns on church/state issues - as well as other topics -- can be found on this site. Professor Hamilton's book, God vs. the Gavel: Religion and the Rule of Law (Cambridge University Press 2005), will be published this June.

Anyway, here's the editorial. Give it a fair chance and read it carefully.


Thoughts?

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Reports Cite No Abuse of Schiavo

Florida Welfare Agency Investigated Dozens of Complaints

By Maya Bell
Orlando Sentinel
Sunday, April 17, 2005; Page A07

ORLANDO -- In the four years after Michael Schiavo won the right to remove his wife's feeding tube, the state's social welfare agency investigated 89 complaints of abuse but never found that he or anybody else harmed Terri Schiavo, records released late Friday show.

The state Department of Children and Families repeatedly concluded that Michael Schiavo ensured his wife's physical and medical needs were met, provided proper therapy for her and had no control over her money. They also found no evidence that he beat or strangled her, as his detractors have repeatedly charged.

State agency reports released under a court order found no abuse of Terri Schiavo by her husband Michael. (Schindler Family Via Zuma Press)

The 45 pages of confidential abuse reports made public by court order show that despite the litany of complaints, investigators never found that Terri Schiavo had been abused.

That raises what Michael Schiavo's attorney said is a key question: Why, during her last weeks of life, did DCF twice try to intervene in the seven-year dispute between Terri Schiavo's husband and her parents?

"The answer is obvious," said attorney Hamden Baskin III. "From the get-go, this was nothing but a political intervention. There was and continues to be no reason for them to have been involved."

DCF spokeswoman Zoraya Suarez would not address the charges of political interference directly, saying only, "The reports speaks for itself. . . . We have a duty to protect the vulnerable and investigate allegations of abuse." Reports on the 30 allegations of abuse raised between March 18, when Schiavo's feeding tube was removed, and March 31, when she died, have not been completed.

Schiavo had been kept alive by the feeding tube for 15 years, but courts ruled that she was in a persistent vegetative state and had not wanted to be kept alive artificially. Her parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, countered that she responded to them and wanted to live, setting off an international debate over right-to-die issues.

The records show that DCF took seriously its duty to investigate abuse allegations, which became familiar fodder on the Internet: Terri Schiavo was dirty and unkempt. She did not receive proper dental care or rehabilitative therapy. She was kept in isolation. Her husband beat her and broke her bones. He wanted her dead for her money or to remarry. He pumped her full of insulin, hoping to kill her. He often asked, "When will (she) die?" Her lips were cracked and dry.

The names of the complainants were blacked out under Pinellas County Circuit Judge George W. Greer's orders.

But DCF investigators looked into the charges and closed them as unfounded with such comments as "the spouse has always been courteous and very compassionate toward his wife" and "all her needs being met."

In at least one case, the caller found the evidence of Terri Schiavo's alleged abuse on the Internet. In January 2004, a female caller reported that Terri Schiavo had an infection on her stomach, at the site of her feeding tube, that was not being treated. But, when questioned, she said she had no first-hand knowledge. She "stated that her information on current infections and lack of treatment was from Yahoo chatline," the report said.

In another instance, Terri Schiavo's parents were the subject of a complaint by a caller who alleged the Schindlers were exploiting their daughter by selling videotapes of her on the Internet for $100. That, too, was ruled unfounded.

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wannabuyamonkey said:
Good point! I for one never claimed any abuse, but I'm glad to see what disdain you have for anyone who violates Biblical commands. I hope you'll join with me in holding polititions on both sides who claim to be Cristians to a strict adherance of teh mandates of Scripture. God bless and let us fight the good fight!

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PaulWellr said:
I have disdain for hypocrites and the disgusting display of public piety and harsh judgement to score political points against someone. And these people didn't relent slapping accusation after accusation, one more disgusting than the one previous, as fact all over the mass media. They lied. They bore FALSE witness and used their faith in order to push their conservative ideology. They will burn in hell, make no mistake.

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Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

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Randal_Flagg said:

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Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

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Check all that apply.

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Check all that apply.

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Randal_Flagg said:

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Check all that apply.

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I was thinking more along the lines of Tom Delay, but I must admit that this picture of Bush is perfect. He just looks so damn sneaky.

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So it must be true!

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Okay, I don't like Bush, but my opinion is not founded on the fact that I don't like his face. That would be as bad as that NASCAR driver who said that he wasn't an issue guy, he liked Bush b/c he has a firm handshake and looked him in the eye.

I think that despite the fact that the majority of Americans feel that he is a straight shooter, he says one thing and does another. But, that is a completely differnet can of worms I don't want to open in this post.

I just think that the picture that Mandral posted was amusing. He's got a shit-eating grin on his face and looks like his up to no good. Its a funny picture whether you are a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, or whatever. BUt, no I do not think it is evidence that he is corrupt, or evil, or anything else. I have plenty of other evidence for that!

{Braces for the backlash from the conservative posters}

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{Braces for the backlash from the conservative posters}

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Why do you hate America?




































Sorry, that's the best back-lash I could come up with on such short notice.

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Why do you hate America?

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Schiavo Autopsy Shows Massive Brain Damage

By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer
12 minutes ago

LARGO, Fla. - The autopsy released Wednesday on Terri Schiavo backed her husband's contention that she was in a persistent vegetative state, finding she was severely and irreversibly brain-damaged and blind as well. It also found no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused before she collapsed.


Yet medical examiners could not say for certain what caused her sudden 1990 collapse, long thought to have been brought on by an eating disorder.

The findings vindicated Michael Schiavo in his long and vitriolic battle with his in-laws, who insisted her condition was not hopeless and suggested that their daughter was the victim of violence by their son-in-law.

In its report, the medical examiner's office cast doubt on both the abuse and eating disorder theory.

The autopsy results on the 41-year-old woman were made public more than two months after Schiavo died of dehydration on March 31 following the removal of her feeding tube 13 days earlier. The death ended an extraordinary right-to-die battle that engulfed the courts, Congress and the White House.

The autopsy showed that Schiavo's brain had shrunk to about half the normal size for a woman her age and that it bore signs of severe damage.

"This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons," said Pinellas-Pasco County Medical Examiner Dr. Jon Thogmartin, who led the autopsy team. He also said she was blind, because the "vision centers of her brain were dead."

George Felos, attorney for Michael Schiavo, said the findings back up their contentions made "for years and years" that Terri Schiavo had no hope of recovery. He said Michael Schiavo plans to release autopsy photographs of her shrunken brain.

"Mr. Schiavo has received so much criticism throughout this case that I'm certain there's a part of him that was pleased to hear these results and the hard science behind them," Felos said.

Nevertheless, attorney David Gibbs III said Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, continue to believe she was not in a vegetative state and questioned the conclusion that she was blind.

The finding that she was blind counters a widely seen videotape released by her parents of Terri Schiavo in her hospice bed. The video showed Schiavo appearing to turn toward her mother's voice and smile. She moaned and laughed. Her head moved up and down and she seemed to follow the progress of a brightly colored Mickey Mouse balloon.

The parents said the video that showed she was aware of her surroundings, but doctors said her reactions were automatic responses and not evidence of consciousness.

In Washington, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the autopsy did nothing to change President Bush's position that Schiavo's feeding tube should not have been disconnected. He had signed a bill, rushed through by Congress in March, in a last-ditch effort to restore her feeding tube.

Thogmartin also said Schiavo would not have been able to eat or drink if given food by mouth as the Schindlers wanted after the tube was removed. In fact, he said, she might easily have choked to death if such feedings had been tried.

"Removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed or hydrated by mouth or not," Thogmartin told reporters.

The autopsy included 274 external and internal body images and an exhaustive review of Terri Schiavo's medical records, police reports and social services agency records.

Thogmartin said that the autopsy produced no conclusion on what triggered the temporary heart stoppage that caused her collapse and brain damage. He said there was no evidence of drug use, though he cautioned that Schiavo was not tested in 1990 for every conceivable substance that could have been in her blood.

He said there was no proof she suffered from an eating disorder such as bulimia, which can disrupt the body chemistry with lethal effect. The main piece of evidence cited for an eating disorder — the low levels of potassium in her blood in 1990 — could have been caused by the emergency treatment she received at the time, Thogmartin said.

While she had lost more than 100 pounds since high school, Schiavo never confessed to an eating disorder, she did not take diet pills and no one had witnessed her purging food, the medical examiner said.

He also discounted the possibility that she had overdosed on caffeine from drinking large amounts of tea in an effort to keep her weight down.

The cause of death was ruled dehydration from removal of the feeding tube, but the underlying reason for her brain damage was officially listed as "undetermined."

In addition, the autopsy found no traces of morphine in her system at her death, although she had been given two doses in the days before she died. The Schindlers had contended that morphine might have been used to speed their daughter's death.

The Schindlers fought their son-in-law in court over their daughter's fate for nearly seven years, battling to the end with conservatives at their side. Michael Schiavo said his wife never would have wanted to be kept alive artificially in such a condition.

Courts repeatedly rejected extraordinary attempts at intervention by Florida lawmakers, Gov. Jeb Bush, Congress and the president on behalf of her parents.

Experts said that the autopsy demonstrates how difficult it is for people to recover from severe brain damage.

"People should understand that sometimes, for known or unknown reasons, individuals sustain massive brain injury that for which healing is not possible," said Dr. Karen Weidenheim, the chief of neuropathology at Montefiore Medical Center in New York. "Everything that could have been done was done for this lady for 15 years, and this case is very tragic."

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unrestrained id said:

Jeez, doesn't it bother these people to be constantly misled by the media and the people they choose to beleive?

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the G-man said:
But wouldn't it have been better to completely investigate most of those issues and confirm the truth beyond a reasonable doubt, I dunno, BEFORE STARVING HER TO DEATH?

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PaulWellr said:

And herin lies the entire point. After how many doctors and how many court cases is it "resonably doubtful" enough for people with a political agenda?

This is a larger pattern: the far right refusing to face facts on global warming or evolution or the fact that condoms work and are an essential part of any program to combat AIDS and on and on. In short, the far right has been shown to hate science

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The issue of Schiavo was diagnosed by reputable doctors and taken to court repeatedly. But the only opinions that seemed to move the right wing were those given by the quackery produced by Randall Terry and The Schiavo family.

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the G-man said:
But wouldn't it have been better to completely investigate most of those issues and confirm the truth beyond a reasonable doubt, I dunno, BEFORE STARVING HER TO DEATH?

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