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Pope Said Conscious, in Grave Condition
By VICTOR L. SIMPSON, Associated Press Writer VATICAN CITY - Pope John Paul II suffered heart failure and was in "very grave" condition Friday, but he was lucid and spent the morning celebrating Mass and receiving top aides, asking one to read him the biblical account of Christ's Crucifixion and burial, the Vatican said.
Spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls choked up with tears as he told reporters about the pope's worsening condition. He said the 84-year-old pontiff had been "informed of the gravity of his situation" and rather than be hospitalized, he decided to stay in his apartment overlooking St. Peter's Square, where thousands of pilgrims gathered to pray for him.
John Paul participated in Mass and received some top aides in the morning, Navarro-Valls said.
"The pope is still lucid, fully conscious and extraordinarily serene," Navarro-Valls said. He said the pope had unstable blood pressure and remained in "very grave" condition.
The critically ill pope appointed a large number of bishops and other church officials, the Holy See said in an afternoon statement that gave no new information about his condition.
Among the top church officials who gathered at his bedside was Archbishop Paolo Sardi, the Vatican vice chamberlain. The chamberlain runs the Holy See between the death of a pope and the election of a new one.
Another visitor was Cardinal Edmund Szoka, the governor of Vatican City and former archbishop of Detroit, who said the pope was being given oxygen.
"As soon as he saw me, he recognized me," Szoka told the "CBS Morning News." "I blessed him and as I did, he tried to make the sign of the cross. So he was perfectly lucid, perfectly conscious, but was having a great deal of trouble breathing.
"And I don't know how long he can continue with that. They were giving him oxygen and all that sort of thing, helping him," Szoka said.
Thousands stood vigil on the square outside, many tearfully gazing up at his third-floor window, and millions more around the world paused to pray for him.
In Wadowice, Poland, people left school and work early and headed to church to pray for their native son.
"I want him to hold on, but it is all in God's hands now," said 64-year-old Elzbieta Galuszko at the church where the pope was baptized in Wadowice, southern Poland. "We can only pray for him so he can pull through these difficult moments."
In the Philippines, tears streamed down the face of Linda Nicol as she and her husband asked God to grant John Paul "a longer life." Muslims in France were praying for the pontiff because he was a "man of peace," said Dalil Boubakeur, president of the French Council of the Muslim Faith.
Navarro-Valls said John Paul asked aides to read him the liturgy of the Third Hour — the biblical passage describing the final stage of the Way of the Cross, the path that Christ took to his Crucifixion. In that stage, according to the Bible, Christ's body was taken down from the cross, wrapped in a linen shroud and placed in his tomb.
Monsignor James Moroney, executive director of the Secretariat for the Liturgy for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said the Third Hour is especially significant for someone who is dying because tradition says Christ died at 3 o'clock in the afternoon.
"Because the Third Hour is the hour at which Christ died, this particular hour from the Liturgy of the Hours would have particular significance," he said.
Navarro-Valls said the pope followed attentively and made the sign of the cross.
"This is surely an image I have never seen in these 26 years," Navarro-Valls said. Choking up, he walked out of the room.
John Paul's health declined sharply Thursday when he developed a high fever brought on by the infection. The pope suffered heart failure and septic shock during treatment for the infection, the Vatican said, denying an Italian news report that he was in a coma.
Septic shock involves both bacteria in the blood and a consequent over-relaxing of the blood vessels. The vessels, which are normally narrow and taught, get floppy in reaction to the bacteria and can't sustain any pressure. That loss of blood pressure is catastrophic, making the heart try harder and harder to compensate for the collapse.
"The chances of an elderly person in this condition with septic shock surviving 24 to 48 hours are slim — about 10-20 percent, but that would be in an intensive care unit with very aggressive treatment," said Dr. Gianni Angelini, a professor of cardiac surgery at Bristol University in England.
Vatican officials said the pope was receiving antibiotics, but asked to remain at his Vatican apartment and not be taken to the hospital.
The pope received the sacrament for the sick and dying on Thursday evening. Formerly called the last rites, the sacrament is often misunderstood as signaling imminent death. It is performed both for patients at the point of death and for those who are very sick — and it may be repeated.
The Rome daily La Repubblica reported Friday that the sacrament was administered by John Paul's closest aide, Polish Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwisz, who serves as his private secretary. Dziwisz had given the pontiff the same sacrament on Feb. 24 just before the pope underwent a tracheotomy to insert a breathing tube in his throat at the Gemelli Polyclinic, the newspaper said.
Italy's Apcom news agency reported Friday morning that the pontiff had fallen into a coma, but the Vatican dismissed the report.
Among the aides John Paul received Friday were Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican's No. 2 official; Undersecretary of State Archbishop Leonardo Sandri; the pope's vicar for Rome, Cardinal Camillo Ruini; his doctrinal chief, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger; and the Vatican foreign minister, Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo.
The pontiff was treated in his apartment by the Vatican medical team and provided with "all the appropriate therapeutic provisions and cardio-respiratory assistance," the Holy See said. It said the pope was being helped by his personal doctor, two intensive care doctors, a cardiologist, an ear, nose and throat specialist and two nurses.
Heart failure occurs when the heart no longer has the strength to pump blood through the body, and is a sign that the body's cardiac system is failing.
Dr. Paolo Nardini, a Rome physician who is not part of the pope's team, said a heart attack affects only the heart, while heart failure signals a "breakdown of the entire system, basically uncurable."
Dr. Peter Weissberg of the British Heart Foundation said septic shock "puts a phenomenal strain on the heart."
"Those already suffering from heart disease — including those with heart failure — are even more susceptible to septic shock," he said. "Infection triggers a profound loss of blood pressure, depriving organs around the body of their vital blood supply and putting an enormous strain on the heart."
Even the fittest patients need special care and medicine to survive, he said.
Ruini said John Paul was "profoundly serene and fully lucid."
"I prayed with him for a moment which profoundly moved me. Certainly the pope has completely left himself in God's hands. I invite all Romans and Italians to intensify prayers for him in this moment," Ruini told private TG5 television.
He said a special evening Mass for the pope would be held at the basilica of St. John Lateran in Rome. The patriarch of Venice, Cardinal Angelo Scola, also planned a Mass in St. Mark Basilica.
Hospitalized twice last month following two breathing crises, and fitted with a breathing tube and a feeding tube, John Paul has become a picture of suffering.
His 26-year papacy has been marked by its call to value the aged and to respect the sick, subjects the pope has turned to as he battles Parkinson's disease and crippling knee and hip ailments.
It is not clear who would be empowered to make medical decisions for an unconscious pope. The Vatican has officially declined to comment whether John Paul has left written instructions.
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I don't get why he's still Pope. Shouldn't they appoint someone in better health?
Bow ties are coool.
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The pope is appointed until death. They can't replace him until he passes away.
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Quote:
Howlerama said:
The pope is appointed until death. They can't replace him until he passes away.
Why don't they just pull his feeding tube?
Bow ties are coool.
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he's rich! you can only kill working class dumbass!
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This is getting ridiculous...When is he gonna kack? It'd be poetic justice if he died on April first....a shining homage to the farce that was his life.
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is hatred genetically a part of being gay?
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Quote:
klinton said:
This is getting ridiculous...When is he gonna kack? It'd be poetic justice if he died on April first....a shining homage to the farce that was his life.
Too late. Its April 2 at the vatican.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
is hatred genetically a part of being gay?
In general? No. When it comes to pompus, hypocritical, lying religious leaders...quite possible.
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rex said:
Too late. Its April 2 at the vatican.
Shit!
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
is hatred genetically a part of being gay?
In general? No. When it comes to pompus, hypocritical, lying religious leaders...quite possible.
i always enjoy hearing those who triumph freedom of speech and expression, feel hatrewd for those who dont not share their views when they express them. thank you.
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britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
i always enjoy hearing those who triumph freedom of speech and expression, feel hatrewd for those who dont not share their views when they express them. thank you.
It's one thing to express your opinion. It's quite another to attempt to misuse an office to repress others. He crossed that line. I don't begrudge the catholics thier pope (although, they really should themselves. The very first chapter of his book was riddled with scriptural annomalies)...I just wish he'd stay the hell out of everyone else's life.
His message of hate is one thing. It's another thing entirely when it becomes an aggressive campaign (including pressure on my elected leaders) of supression.
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November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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There was a series of threatening letters sent from his office to members of the Canadian parliment in reference to the gay marriage issue. Not only did he state his opinions publicly (which, despite my feelings, he's entitled to do), he and his office took it upon themselves to bully members of parliment. He may truly believe that us faggots are evil...fine. But this is not a catholic nation, and any catholic individuals in parliment have a higher responsibility to me as a citizen than to thier church. If they cannot draw that line, they are in the wrong job. That he sought to influence them in this way, disregarding the fact that they are in no position to make that call based on thier own faith (rather, being accountable to the will of the people)...the whole scene was disgusting. I lost any residual respect I might have held for the monster at that time.
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But did it affect anything? Canadian is etrememly accepting of gays.
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I think he's dead...church bells are clanging everywhere here.
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Quote:
rex said:
But did it affect anything? Canadian is etrememly accepting of gays.
Of course not. The fact that he felt he was entitled to do so though was disgusting. He had to stick his ignorant opinion into affairs that had nothing to do with him. And not just state his opinion, but threaten individuals with expulsion from the church for doing thier job.
I would never begrudge him the right to hold his position (no matter how contrary to biblical standards such a position might be). He is free to do so...just as Canada is free to legalize gay marriage.
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That was my point, it accomplished nothing. I don't care for most of the stuff him and the catholic church do. At least you don't have them using the FCC to censor your TV and radio.
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its strange klinton hates the hope for opposing gay marriage, but he thinks its not evil to celebrate the death of someone based on their dissenting opinion. seems to me someone wishing death on someone of differing opinions is more evil than someone who opposes a marriage. of course i have weird standards.....
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
its strange klinton hates the hope for opposing gay marriage, but he thinks its not evil to celebrate the death of someone based on their dissenting opinion. seems to me someone wishing death on someone of differing opinions is more evil than someone who opposes a marriage. of course i have weird standards.....
Shut up you. Yes, I do hate the man. I hate him for more than the 'gay marriage' issue. I hate him for twisting God's word and misleading millions. He knowingly uses God's name to further the agendas of a corrupt perversion of God's intentions. Someone in his position should be seeking to free his followers from generations of mistakes, not propogating them. He is a dark and souless man. What are his redeeming qualities?
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
its strange klinton hates the hope for opposing gay marriage, but he thinks its not evil to celebrate the death of someone based on their dissenting opinion. seems to me someone wishing death on someone of differing opinions is more evil than someone who opposes a marriage. of course i have weird standards.....
Shut up you. Yes, I do hate the man. I hate him for more than the 'gay marriage' issue. I hate him for twisting God's word and misleading millions. He knowingly uses God's name to further the agendas of a corrupt perversion of God's intentions. Someone in his position should be seeking to free his followers from generations of mistakes, not propogating them. He is a dark and souless man. What are his redeeming qualities?
A funny hat?
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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*sigh* Fine, I hope he survives the night so we can be amused some more by his...uh...unique...fashion sense. That better?
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Not really.... I'm sure the new Pope will have an equally funny hat.
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You'll be seeing plenty of nuns where you're going...Hell!
- Chief Clancy Wiggum
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Not really.... I'm sure the new Pope will have an equally funny hat.
Well then you tell me mister smart ass.
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
its strange klinton hates the hope for opposing gay marriage, but he thinks its not evil to celebrate the death of someone based on their dissenting opinion. seems to me someone wishing death on someone of differing opinions is more evil than someone who opposes a marriage. of course i have weird standards.....
Shut up you. Yes, I do hate the man. I hate him for more than the 'gay marriage' issue. I hate him for twisting God's word and misleading millions. He knowingly uses God's name to further the agendas of a corrupt perversion of God's intentions. Someone in his position should be seeking to free his followers from generations of mistakes, not propogating them. He is a dark and souless man. What are his redeeming qualities?
so your twisting gods word is more iportant than his im not sure i understand?
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
so your twisting gods word is more iportant than his im not sure i understand?
I don't. The closest I 've come to that is trying to find some place for myself in his plan. It took me years to get over my personal issues with Him...But being the God of love that He is, he's allowed me to accept my faults and Him in my life. I don't go around preaching to others (the closest I might have come to that is explaining my beliefs when prompted). I don't make claims to being infallable or the voice of God.
How am I anything like this man?
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why are you catholic? the religion is based on the pope being the voice of god? i never understood why someone wants to be catholic but not follow the rules of it? seems your not catholic, and if your not why do you care what he says? im not catholic and i could care less if he said its imoral to type on the computer. why get in a huff if you dont believe in catholicism?
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Not really.... I'm sure the new Pope will have an equally funny hat.
Well then you tell me mister smart ass.
I'm just sayin' I like the hat.... It's funny. The rest is between you and bAsams
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I'm not in a huff. I just dislike the man. End of story. We're still discussing this because I gave up all pretenses of attempting to do my homework and am just sitting here killing time before I go to work. You throw out a trademark britney spin and I reply... Do I want to see him dead? Not particularily. Is it amusing to post ignorant comments about his impending demise, sure.
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im not 134,321-0 by accident!
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Facinating. Do tell me more.
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Squirrels. Lots and lots of squirells. And a rosebush.
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