RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events The Minutemen (& other names guaranteed to NOT get you laid)

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April 2,

Minutemen Prepare to Lay Down the Law

Civilian border patrols rally troops in Arizona. And they're making their presence known.

By David Kelly, Times Staff Writer

TOMBSTONE, Ariz. — They came by the hundreds Friday, men and women from across the nation, hearts brimming with righteous anger, determined to staunch the flow of illegal immigration.

Some wore pistols slung low on their hips. Others walked the dusty streets in leather cowboy hats, wearing buttons that read: "Undocumented Border Patrol Agent." There were pilots, window washers, private investigators and exterminators.

These are the new Minutemen. And for the next month, they will patrol 23 miles of desert here in southeast Arizona, the busiest corridor for illegal immigrants in the nation with about 500,000 arrests last year.

"We have an illegal invasion of our country going on now that is affecting our schools, our healthcare system and our society in general," said volunteer Joe McCutchen, 73, of Fort Smith, Ark. "No society can sustain this."

The Minutemen's presence here has set off protests from immigrant-rights groups and drew a handful of counter-demonstrators Friday. The Mexican government has increased its troop strength along the border, and President Vicente Fox has called on the American government to protect illegal immigrants coming across the desert.

President Bush outraged many of the volunteers here by calling them vigilantes. They responded by calling Bush the co-president of Mexico and a leader who has failed his responsibility to secure the country's borders.

At a rally Friday in an airy building not far from the infamous OK Corral, politicians and activists lambasted Bush and vowed not to be intimidated.

"Since when did actually enforcing the laws of the land become a radical idea?" asked Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.). "If you don't know who is coming across your borders and for what purpose, then you cannot call yourself a nation."

The 200 or so volunteers roared their approval, a few shouting: "Tancredo for president!"

Conservative political pundit Bay Buchanan chipped in. "Mr. President, you have failed us, you have failed our children, you have failed those communities suffering from drugs coming across the border," she said. "Mr. President, you have failed America!"

Outside the hall, demonstrators pounded pots and pans with spoons, trying to drown out the rally. There were dancers in traditional Aztec dress carrying signs calling the Minutemen racists. Monitors in red and white shirts from the American Civil Liberties Union have organized themselves into groups that will follow the civilian patrols that officially begin Monday.

"We will stay about 50 to 100 yards behind them to deter the use of violence and document any illegal activity," said Ray Ybarra of the Arizona ACLU.

The number of Minutemen who assembled here Friday was not as great as had been expected. James Gilchrist, the Orange County activist who organized the event, had predicted at least 1,000 would show up.

"They will be coming throughout the month, and not all on the first day," he said.

Gilchrist emphasized to his troops that no one was authorized to touch or detain any illegal immigrant, but that they should report them to the Border Patrol — which has said it doesn't want the help. "The rules of engagement are that there is no engagement," Gilchrist said.

Gilchrist, a 58-year-old Vietnam veteran and retired accountant from Aliso Viejo, said that white supremacist groups such as the Aryan Nations, which urged people to volunteer for the Minutemen, were not welcome.

"I have found in the last three months that hate groups come in all colors," Gilchrist said, explaining he had been threatened by a Latino gang and various individuals. "I have had … probably 12 actual death threats."

Gilchrist said the fact that the U.S. government announced this week the addition of 500 border patrol agents here showed that his effort was already paying off.

"We know we are not a panacea, that we are not going to change this all in 30 days," he said. "But we have already accomplished our goal a hundred-fold in getting the media out here and getting the message out."

The number of media members here Friday to cover the volunteer border patrols nearly outnumbered the Minutemen. Reporters from around the world descended on Tombstone, population 4,800. Along with journalists came some filmmakers working on documentaries about the U.S.-Mexican border.

Chris Simcox, editor of the Tombstone Tumbleweed newspaper and a key organizer of the event, warned participants that they would be under enormous scrutiny. "The media has created this frenzy and this monster," he said. "They are looking for Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster — the vigilante. But they aren't going to find it. The media will be watching everything we do. We are going to be held accountable to the letter of the law. You must abide by every law or you will not succeed."

The Minutemen don't fit neatly into any stereotype. Some wore fatigues and carried military-issue Meals Ready to Eat. Others resembled suburbanites out for a weekend adventure. A few toted handguns.

Buddy Watson, a former prison guard, carried a .40-caliber pistol. He said he had reread the Constitution before coming here from Bentonville, Ark., to make sure he didn't violate anybody's rights.

"We have been threatened, so I am carrying a gun," he said. "I have no intention of having to use it."

Gilchrist said the Minutemen had been threatened by MS-13, a Central American street gang.

Bill Davis, 66, who kills coyotes for a living, worried about the number of guns he saw.

"The ACLU is praying … that someone gets wacky out here," the Minuteman volunteer said. "They hope some loose cannon lets the air out of somebody. And I see people walking around here with guns strapped on when there is no need for it."

Davis expects to be leading an eight-person patrol in the desert in the days ahead, yet he has some trepidation.

He spends every day tracking animals in the barren landscape here. He routinely comes across illegal immigrants and calls in the Border Patrol.

"I go out every day of the year, but some of these guys are businessmen," he said. "They shouldn't be carrying a box of rocks, let alone a gun."

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"Since when did actually enforcing the laws of the land become a radical idea?" asked Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.). "If you don't know who is coming across your borders and for what purpose, then you cannot call yourself a nation."

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the G-man said:
Can't say I really disagree, id.

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That's no way to start a flame war! amature

Meanwhile, the Mexican government yesterday again condemned what it called “vigilantism” along the U.S.-Mexico border in Arizona, demanding the U.S. government ensure that the Minuteman volunteers do not abuse Mexican nationals crossing into the United States.

Mexican Consul Miguel Escobar told reporters his government “considers it unacceptable that certain people are detaining Mexican migrants.”

It was the same message delivered to U.S. government officials Feb. 10 in a diplomatic note that sought assurances that the civil rights of illegal aliens crossing into the United States would not be violated.

Mexican consulates located throughout Arizona have been told by their government to provide aid to those aliens who claim to have been abused by the Minuteman volunteers, including legal options the aliens can take if they are mistreated.

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the G-man said:

I think its time to drop the fiction that Mexico is doing anything other than dumping its population on the U.S.

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unrestrained id said:
But the larger question isn't 'why CAN'T the Government secure the border' but 'why WON'T the Government secure our border'?

It's because for all the talk about border enforcement and it being out of control and what not, no one is prepared to pay $6.00 at the supermarket for a box of strawberries. Which is what they'd cost if it went to someone not as easily exploited, such as an American citizen who demands at the very least, minimum wage if not a wage that reflects the toil involved in the work.

It's all about the money to be made on exploitation, I think.

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JQ said:
The largest Newspaper in the world vs. some idiot with a blog

hmmmmm...

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Pariah said:
Still though; a crazy raving homeless person on the street has more credibility than the NY Times.

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Haab, who turned 24 this month, said Friday that he was not trying to make any statements about illegal immigration when he ordered seven men out of their vehicle and told them to lie face down on the ground at the Sentinel rest stop on Interstate 8.

He said that his military training took over when the seven men “rushed” him out of the darkness at the rest area, where he had stopped to relieve his dog. Earlier this week, he explained that the men climbed inside a Chevrolet Suburban when they saw his gun and he followed them to the SUV, took the vehicle keys and forced them out. Haab said he called 911 as soon as he had the situation under control and a dispatcher told him to do what he thought was best until authorities arrived.“I have put out the real story,” he said, adding that Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio has made this out to be a case of vigilante justice. “I was acting in self defense.”

Arpaio has said repeatedly that Haab’s story doesn’t make sense and has noted several contradictions. Among those; Haab’s claim that he was being attacked even though none of the men made aggressive moves; Haab’s claim that he was afraid for his life even though he followed the men to their car; Haab’s claim that he did not know the men were illegal immigrants though he later said he believed they thought he was a border patrol agent.

Arpaio has said that Haab’s actions were illegal and dangerous and that he had no right to take the law into his own hands.

All seven immigrants, who were being held at a detention facility in Yuma, asked to press charges against Haab. The driver has also been charged with human smuggling.

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the G-man said:
Army Reservist Patrick Haab has been charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon—for detaining a group of illegal aliens until the police arrived:

Haab, who turned 24 this month, said Friday that he was not trying to make any statements about illegal immigration when he ordered seven men out of their vehicle and told them to lie face down on the ground at the Sentinel rest stop on Interstate 8.

He said that his military training took over when the seven men “rushed” him out of the darkness at the rest area, where he had stopped to relieve his dog. Earlier this week, he explained that the men climbed inside a Chevrolet Suburban when they saw his gun and he followed them to the SUV, took the vehicle keys and forced them out. Haab said he called 911 as soon as he had the situation under control and a dispatcher told him to do what he thought was best until authorities arrived.“I have put out the real story,” he said, adding that Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio has made this out to be a case of vigilante justice. “I was acting in self defense.”

Arpaio has said repeatedly that Haab’s story doesn’t make sense and has noted several contradictions. Among those; Haab’s claim that he was being attacked even though none of the men made aggressive moves; Haab’s claim that he was afraid for his life even though he followed the men to their car; Haab’s claim that he did not know the men were illegal immigrants though he later said he believed they thought he was a border patrol agent.

Arpaio has said that Haab’s actions were illegal and dangerous and that he had no right to take the law into his own hands.

All seven immigrants, who were being held at a detention facility in Yuma, asked to press charges against Haab. The driver has also been charged with human smuggling.

Now, Haab is facing a twenty year sentence for stopping these people from entering the United States illegally.

Yeah, that makes sense.

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rex said:
He should be tried and thrown in jail. This is the govenments job.
Is illegal immigration a problem?
Yes, but its up to the government to fix it. Not some vigilante group. If they really want to change things, they would be talking to their government representatives and contacting businesses that hire illegal immigrants and tell them to stop.

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unrestrained id said:
What we're talking about is some guy taking the law into his own hands and then manufacturing "evidence"...some civilian yahoo who thinks he has authority to enforce law...We're a nation of laws, not of mob rule and mob justice.

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Law enforcment isn't doing much or isn't capable of doing much against gangs either. Does that give you the "right" to load up a pistol and run around town "doing something" about gangs?

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DENVER — The Minuteman Project, which attracted international attention by putting armed civilians along the Arizona-Mexico border to deter illegal immigration, announced Wednesday that it was entering a new phase and would stop its patrol activities.
The roughly 750 volunteers, organizers said, would remain in the border area through April under the direction of Civil Homeland Defense, a Tombstone, Ariz., group similar to the Minuteman Project.
The project will focus on protesting businesses that employ illegal immigrants, pushing for immigration reform and organizing Minuteman branches nationwide.
Leaders Jim Gilchrist and Chris Simcox are scheduled to speak before the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus in Washington next week.
"Mr. Gilchrist helped develop the Minuteman Project, and he is taking it to Washington," said Gray Deacon, a spokesman for the group.
"But the Minutemen are not going anywhere. We are duty-bound to do what we promised, and we promised to stay through April. We have just as many stations, just as many volunteers, and none of us are laying down our lawn chairs and walking away."
Deacon said the group had been instrumental in the arrests of 283 illegal immigrants.
Gilchrist, a retired accountant from Aliso Viejo, Calif., said his goals had been accomplished sooner than expected.
"Because of the phenomenal success of this grass-roots project in such a short time, the Minuteman Project has declared an unconditional victory in its efforts," he said in an open letter to supporters Wednesday. "We have simultaneously brought national awareness to our national security crisis, of which porous borders and illegal alien and drug traffic are components. The Minuteman Project will take the next few months to reorganize, expand, and to become larger, better, stronger."
The patrols — which in addition to serving as a deterrent were intended to attract media attention and embarrass the Bush administration into doing more to police the nation's borders — began April 1. Volunteers came from across the country to sit along a 23-mile stretch of border from Douglas to Naco, Ariz. The area is the busiest crossing point for illegal immigrants in the country, with 500,000 arrests last year.
Using binoculars and two-way radios, participants who spotted migrants alerted the Border Patrol, whose leaders did not welcome the assistance. President Bush had called them vigilantes; human rights groups and some Arizona officials said they were racist and wrong-headed.
The Border Patrol said last week that illegal immigrant traffic where the Minutemen were stationed had dropped 50%. Andy Adame, spokesman for the Border Patrol's Tucson sector, credited the presence of the Mexican army across the border with the decrease. Others said that, rather than forcing a decrease in immigrant traffic, the Minutemen probably had funneled people to less-guarded entry points.
Rep. Thomas G. Tancredo (news, bio, voting record) (R-Colo.), who backs strict border controls and met with the Minutemen recently, said he had asked organizers to end their mission early.
"I told them to pull the plug on it," he said. "They have drawn the attention of the American government, they got the attention of the Mexican government, and they have proven they aren't just a bunch of Bubbas."
Ray Borane, the mayor of Douglas, said the effort had been "very superficial and clearly insincere."
"It doesn't surprise me that they ended it," he said. "As soon as the media packed up and left, they left as well. All they accomplished was being a hindrance to the Border Patrol and creating international hard feelings. Their biggest accomplishment was getting the media's attention. It was, as the Mexicans say, all song and no opera."
But Minuteman leaders have promised an encore if there is no progress toward safeguarding the border by October.
"We'll be back. We can put between 10,000 and 21,000 people on the border in all four Southwestern states," Deacon said.
"We will close down the border the way we closed this section. Our message is very clear — we want our government to secure our borders."

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unrestrained id said:
What we're talking about is some guy taking the law into his own hands and then manufacturing "evidence"...some civilian yahoo who thinks he has authority to enforce law...We're a nation of laws, not of mob rule and mob justice.

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the G-man said:
Actually, a good argument can be made that nation's laws give Haab a complete right to do what he did. It's called a "citizen's arrest."

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Hunger strike protests anti-immigrant vigilantes



Diana Ponce talks on a phone in the yard of her San Pablo home Wednesday, the fifth day of a hunger strike to protest the gathering of armed volunteers, the Minuteman Project, at the Arizona-Mexico border to keep illegal immigrants from entering the United States.

Page B - 5
URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/21/BAGGGCCIHG1.DTL

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Pariah said:
Hunger strikes mean more if your not obese.

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By Peter Nicholas and Robert Salladay, Times Staff Writers

SACRAMENTO — Calling the nation's borders dangerously porous, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Thursday praised the private "Minuteman" campaign that uses armed volunteers to stop illegal immigrants from crossing into the U.S.

Schwarzenegger said in a radio interview that the federal government is failing to secure the border with Mexico, and he cast the hundreds of private citizens who have been patrolling the Arizona-Mexico border since April 1 as a popular response to government inaction.

"I think they've done a terrific job," Schwarzenegger said of the "Minuteman" volunteers, who plan to expand to California in June. "They've cut down the crossing of illegal immigrants a huge percentage. So it just shows that it works when you go and make an effort and when you work hard. It's a doable thing."

The governor added that, "It's just that our federal government is not doing their job. It's a shame that the private citizen has to go in there and start patrolling our borders."

President Bush has denounced the Minuteman volunteers as vigilantes.

U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) expressed surprise that Schwarzenegger would be "praising efforts by untrained volunteers to patrol the borders. The best course … would be to add an additional 2,000 border patrol agents."

The leader of a Mexican American group called the governor's comments "shameful" and "nothing short of base racism."

"I think we're seeing the real Arnold Schwarzenegger. The mask has now fallen," said Nativo V. Lopez, state national president of the Mexican American Political Assn. "Those of immigrant stock should have no illusions about what his real sentiments and feelings are toward them."

Just last week, Schwarzenegger and his aides sought to clarify his statement to a convention of newspaper publishers that the nation should "close the borders." Before his speech was over, an aide told reporters that Schwarzenegger had meant to say that the U.S. should secure its borders — not shut them down.

Schwarzenegger has frequently sought advice from former Gov. Pete Wilson, a Republican who used the issue of illegal immigration to fuel his reelection campaign in 1994. Schwarzenegger also has hired several former Wilson staff members, including his chief of staff, Pat Clarey.

An organizer of what is being called the "Minuteman Project," Chris Simcox, said he welcomed Schwarzenegger's endorsement.

"It's gratifying to see that elected officials are responding to the will of the people," Simcox said in an interview Thursday.

He said there are about 15,000 volunteers who have committed to patrolling the border in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. The group is also incorporating, assembling a staff and opening a national fundraising campaign, Simcox said. He added that he planned to call Schwarzenegger.

Volunteers may carry firearms if they choose, he said, but they obey all local laws. Their practice is not to apprehend people but to report instances of illegal crossings, he said.

"We don't involve ourselves in taking the law into our own hands," he said.

Margita Thompson, the governor's press secretary, said: "At this point, the governor does not oppose" the group coming to California.

As far as the charge of racism against the governor, she said: "It's not racist to ask the federal government to enforce its laws. Everyone should be united in wanting to protect our national security."

In his interview with KFI-AM (640), the governor said he was deeply troubled by illegal crossings and what he described as an inadequate federal effort to tighten borders. He said he was especially disturbed by footage he had seen recently on Fox News showing "hundreds and hundreds of illegal immigrants coming across the border."

Schwarzenegger said the nation is sending the wrong signal by making water available to migrants as a convenience.

Humanitarian and religious groups, such as Humane Borders and No More Deaths, provide water for immigrants crossing the border. Federal wildlife officials have provided water stations in the desert for animals but have been criticized for not providing enough for people.

Said Schwarzenegger, "What we're doing basically is, by not really securing the borders, we're saying: 'Look, here are the various water stations. Here are the places where you can cross the borders. Here is where we're going to help you.' The whole system is set up to really invite people to come in here illegally, and that has to stop."

Enrique Morones, president of the Border Angels, an immigrant rights group, responded to the governor's comments. "I assure you, nobody is coming here for the water, and the stations we have set up by various organizations is a humanitarian effort.

"We don't respond to Arnold Schwarzenegger; we respond to a higher authority. We're a nonpolitical, humanitarian organization."

Asked by the hosts of the "John and Ken Show" why Bush called the volunteers vigilantes, Schwarzenegger said: "I really cannot tell you exactly what his thinking is. I'm sure he's trying to solve the problem as well as anyone can. And he maybe has more information than you and I have. Why he has a policy about the border the way he has, I don't know. I've not had that conversation with him.

"But the next time I see him, I will have that conversation."

Schwarzenegger's opponents in the Legislature voiced outrage at the governor's comments.

Aides to Assembly Speaker Fabian Nuñez (D-Los Angeles) said he was furious and promptly called Schwarzenegger to complain.

Assemblyman Hector De La Torre, a Democrat from South Gate, blasted the governor's comments as "scapegoating and immigrant bashing."

"To support vigilantism is completely against the oath he took" to uphold the law, De La Torre said. "It goes way beyond normal law enforcement, normal border patrol jurisdiction. It's just off the charts. For him to say this puts him to the right of President Bush. This is completely out of the mainstream in California."

In the same radio interview, the governor also asked a Spanish-language Los Angeles television station, KRCA-TV Channel 62, to remove a billboard it erected with the words "Los Angeles, Mexico." The governor said such sentiments — implying that Los Angeles was now part of Mexico — would encourage illegal immigration.

Some conservatives welcomed Schwarzenegger's comments.

"Obviously, we are very happy the governor is beginning to side more and more with those of us who have been taking the problems with illegal aliens seriously," said Mike Spence, president of the California Republican Assembly, a volunteer group. "The governor gets that illegal aliens are a problem facing California."

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Volunteers recruited over the Internet to monitor illegal entrant activity along a stretch of Arizona's border ended their monthlong efforts Saturday as they began - peering through binoculars along a dusty border road.

Members of the Minuteman Project hailed results as a huge success, and organizers plan to expand the mission to the other states bordering Mexico, as well as to parts of the Canadian border - in Idaho, North Dakota, Vermont and Michigan. They also plan to take on employers who hire illegal immigrants.

"This could not have been done without all of you. You did this together - you the people," co-organizer Chris Simcox told some 150 Minutemen and supporters at a last-day meeting outside a church in Palominas.

Simcox said the project has inspired millions of supporters across the country and reiterated a message he delivered to congressmen last week in Washington: The people will lead themselves "in an effort to secure our borders, to protect our families, our children, our neighbors and our way of life."

Founder Jim Gilchrist said the Minutemen had gained the attention of Congress but warned that unless the work continues, "it's going to be viewed as just a monthlong dog and pony show."

The Minutemen said volunteers' calls to the Border Patrol resulted in 335 apprehensions of illegal immigrants through early Wednesday. Organizers said 876 volunteers went through a four-hour training session and spent at least one eight-hour shift in the field through Friday. Their final eight-hour shift was to end as of 6 a.m. today.

The Border Patrol keeps statistics on citizen calls and resulting apprehensions, but did not publicly break down whether calls came from project volunteers.

Of the 1.1 million illegal immigrants the Border Patrol apprehended last year, more than half entered the country through the Mexico-Arizona border, and its porousness has become a focus of contention over possible intelligence reports that al-Qaida terror operatives could enter the same way.

Critics, including Border Patrol officials, have said the Minutemen were little more than a nuisance and distraction that attracted significant attention from the media and from civil rights groups watching volunteers for possible rights violations.

But a majority of registered Arizona voters polled said they favored what the Minutemen did.

Trucker Mike Minatrea, 39, of New Braunfels, Texas, a ham radio operator who was stationed near Naco for a week with his wife, Kristi, a registered nurse, said the Minuteman Project "has told the rest of America what they can do to get something done" by protesting in a calm, orderly and productive fashion.