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I would definitely tap that as soon as she completes the re-education regime that will become mandatory once The Shovel Party has brought order to this befuddled land of ours. PJP, Chewy, this is why you are our candidates!


go.

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The conscience of the rkmbs!
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Native Americans didn't actually keep that frame of mind since they didn't believe the land had owners.

Pariah #478234 2007-02-23 10:58 PM
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If they didn't believe in ownership of land, how can they claim the white man "stole" it?

the G-man #478235 2007-02-23 11:31 PM
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That's the big mystery.

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The San Francisco Chronicle:

    Mayor Gavin Newsom vowed Sunday to maintain San Francisco as a sanctuary for immigrants and do everything he can to discourage federal authorities from conducting immigration raids.

    The mayor cannot stop federal authorities from making arrests, Newsom told about 300 mostly Latino members of St. Peter's Church and other religious groups supporting immigrants. But no San Francisco employee will help with immigration enforcement.



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Agent group votes 'no confidence' in chief

    The 100 leaders of the nation's 11,000 U.S. Border Patrol's rank-and-file agents on Monday are releasing a no-confidence resolution against Chief David V. Aguilar for his failure to back up two agents now serving time for shooting a drug-smuggling illegal alien.

    In a unanimous decision agreed to on Sunday, the top leadership of the National Border Patrol Council lambasted Aguilar for his silence on behalf of Ignacio Ramos, 37, and Jose Alonso Compean, 28. The two are serving 11 and 12 year prison sentences, respectively, as a result of testimony given by a a drug-smuggler who claimed his civil rights were violated when he was shot in the buttocks trying to run across the Mexico border after dropping 743 pounds of marijuana during their pursuit of him.

    NBPC President T.J. Bonner said Aguilar's lack of support for field agents has caused attrition among the ranks, plummeting morale and a growing disconnect between field agents and leadership.

    Among other clauses, the resolution accuses the chief of "shamelessly promoting amnesty and a greatly expanded guest-worker program as key elements of the solution to the illegal immigration crisis" despite intense opposition from front-line agents "who risk their lives enforcing our nation's immigration laws." It also criticizes the agency's willingness "to cut corners in the hiring and training" of new agents.

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Quote:

the G-man said:

Two Texas Border Patrol agents convicted of shooting a Mexican drug runner in the backside while on duty turned themselves in to U.S. Marshals Wednesday.

Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean began serving 11- and 12-year prison sentences, respectively, for the February 2005 non-fatal shooting of Osvaldo Aldrete Davila.




Even the guy they shot thinks their sentences are excessive:

    The man shot in the buttocks by two U.S. Border Patrol agents now in prison for the shooting and the coverup is breaking his silence

    In an interview with The El Paso Times, Aldrete Davila said while it was wrong for the agents to shoot him, he thinks the prison sentences are too excessive.

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Quote:

PJP said:
>



That definitely stiffens my resolve on the issue !

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Texas Town Kicks Illegals to Curb: Voters in Dallas suburb approve city ordinance prohibiting landlords from renting to most illegal immigrants

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Quote:

the G-man said:
Texas Town Kicks Illegals to Curb: Voters in Dallas suburb approve city ordinance prohibiting landlords from renting to most illegal immigrants



so instead they're homeless with enough money to pay rent?


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Immigration Deal Doomed?

    Less than a week after touting a breakthrough on a new immigration reform bill, lawmakers from both sides of the aisle on Tuesday started tearing apart the original proposal on how to handle the 12 million illegal immigrants living in the United States.

    The bill's future is unclear after the Senate test vote late Monday garnered the 60 votes needed for lawmakers to begin debating the 1,000-page document but Senate leaders agreed to postpone finishing the legislation until next month.

    Opposition to the bill, which many senators complain has only just made it in final form into their inboxes, is coming from the right and left. Normal allies of comprehensive immigration reform, pro-immigrant groups and many business consortiums are looking askance at the legislation. Not one union group has voiced support for it.

    Some Republicans call the bill amnesty with a renewable visa system while some Democrats oppose the proposal that makes skills and education more important than family ties.

    The Senate on Tuesday will take up a handful of amendments to the bill from Republicans and Democrats.

    In a nod to that opposition, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid conceded that the Senate won't be able to complete the bill before a hoped-for Memorial Day deadline.

    Negotiators who hammered out the deal behind closed doors after months of meetings with Bush administration officials said they will meet each morning the Senate is in session during the debate to review the slate of amendments for the day and decide a strategy for supporting or defeating those amendments.

    The negotiating group has about a dozen members and could easily be thwarted if liberal Democratic critics join opposing Republicans to pass any given measure. A number of the original negotiators have already left the group in opposition, including Cornyn, Leahy and Menendez. Still others in the group are withholding their support for now, like Georgia Republican Sens. Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson.

    The bill beefs up border security and employer verification, sets up a temporary worker program, legalizes the vast majority of the approximately 12 million illegals currently in the United States and sets up a merit-focused point system that still heavily weighs family connections for earning a green card.

    Currently, about two-thirds of legal permanent residency cards are family-based, while one third are employment-based. Legislative experts agree that current ratio would not substantially change, though family migration is drastically curtailed. Only minor children and spouses can accompany green card holders, with a limited number of visas granted to "grandparents." Others would have to apply for their own green card.

    Illegals, once they come out of the shadows and register, receive a temporary card and eventually a special "Z visa" to work indefinitely in the U.S, a process that takes a minimum of eight years. They are not required to return to their home country unless they wish to become U.S. citizens.

    In a nod to that opposition, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid conceded that the Senate won't be able to complete the bill before a hoped-for Memorial Day deadline.

    "It would be to the best interests of the Senate ... that we not try to finish this bill this week. I think we could, but I'm afraid the conclusion wouldn't be anything that anyone wanted," Reid, D-Nev., said.

    Negotiators who hammered out the deal behind closed doors after months of meetings with Bush administration officials said they will meet each morning the Senate is in session during the debate to review the slate of amendments for the day and decide a strategy for supporting or defeating those amendments.

    The negotiating group has about a dozen members and could easily be thwarted if liberal Democratic critics join opposing Republicans to pass any given measure. A number of the original negotiators have already left the group in opposition, including Cornyn, Leahy and Menendez. Still others in the group are withholding their support for now, like Georgia Republican Sens. Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson.

    The bill beefs up border security and employer verification, sets up a temporary worker program, legalizes the vast majority of the approximately 12 million illegals currently in the United States and sets up a merit-focused point system that still heavily weighs family connections for earning a green card.

    Currently, about two-thirds of legal permanent residency cards are family-based, while one third are employment-based. Legislative experts agree that current ratio would not substantially change, though family migration is drastically curtailed. Only minor children and spouses can accompany green card holders, with a limited number of visas granted to "grandparents." Others would have to apply for their own green card.

    Illegals, once they come out of the shadows and register, receive a temporary card and eventually a special "Z visa" to work indefinitely in the U.S, a process that takes a minimum of eight years. They are not required to return to their home country unless they wish to become U.S. citizens.

    In a nod to that opposition, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid conceded that the Senate won't be able to complete the bill before a hoped-for Memorial Day deadline.

    "It would be to the best interests of the Senate ... that we not try to finish this bill this week. I think we could, but I'm afraid the conclusion wouldn't be anything that anyone wanted," Reid, D-Nev., said.

    Negotiators who hammered out the deal behind closed doors after months of meetings with Bush administration officials said they will meet each morning the Senate is in session during the debate to review the slate of amendments for the day and decide a strategy for supporting or defeating those amendments.

    The negotiating group has about a dozen members and could easily be thwarted if liberal Democratic critics join opposing Republicans to pass any given measure. A number of the original negotiators have already left the group in opposition, including Cornyn, Leahy and Menendez. Still others in the group are withholding their support for now, like Georgia Republican Sens. Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson.

    The bill beefs up border security and employer verification, sets up a temporary worker program, legalizes the vast majority of the approximately 12 million illegals currently in the United States and sets up a merit-focused point system that still heavily weighs family connections for earning a green card.

    Currently, about two-thirds of legal permanent residency cards are family-based, while one third are employment-based. Legislative experts agree that current ratio would not substantially change, though family migration is drastically curtailed. Only minor children and spouses can accompany green card holders, with a limited number of visas granted to "grandparents." Others would have to apply for their own green card.

    Illegals, once they come out of the shadows and register, receive a temporary card and eventually a special "Z visa" to work indefinitely in the U.S, a process that takes a minimum of eight years. They are not required to return to their home country unless they wish to become U.S. citizens.

    Conservative Heritage Foundation President Robert Rector estimates the total cost of the bill to be in the trillions of dollars, warning, "This $2.5 trillion cost is going to come smashing into the Social Security and Medicare systems at exactly the point those systems are already going bankrupt. So the bottom line is that these individuals will make no net contribution in taxes while they are working. They will be a deficit. But when they hit retirement, they will be an astonishing cost on the taxpayer."

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Good....this is the crazy part....

"Illegals, once they come out of the shadows and register, receive a temporary card and eventually a special "Z visa" to work indefinitely in the U.S, a process that takes a minimum of eight years. They are not required to return to their home country unless they wish to become U.S. citizens."

That's fucking crazy....


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Illegals Given Red Bull for Border Dash

 Quote:
Illegal immigrants are being given Red Bull energy drinks and ephedrine to give them a boost as they scurry across the U.S. border.

Smugglers are reportedly giving immigrants what is known as a “triple stacker” — an ephedrine pill and aspirin, with a can of Red Bull to wash it all down, U.S. Border Patrol agents said.

The caffeine combo, which can lead to dehydration, especially in the scorching temperatures of the deserts, is one of the main reasons for immigrant deaths before they make it into the U.S.

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Michelle Malkin (herself the child of immigrants): REVIVING THE 'MELTING POT'

 Quote:
AMNESTY is dead. Now, let's talk about the other "A" word. It's the word and the concept completely abandoned during the immigration debate: assimilation.

Over the last year, hundreds of thousands of illegal-alien demonstrators took to the streets lobbying for amnesty. Marchers waved "Amnestia Ahora!" placards in one hand, the flags of their native countries in the other. Open-borders strategists quickly replaced the foreign flags with Old Glory after militant activists caused a public backlash last year. National newspapers played dutiful propagandists and splashed patriotic photo-ops of the "undocumented" masses wrapped in red, white and blue to drum up sympathy.

But now that they've lost their amnesty fight, will they still embrace American symbols and traditions? Or was it all for show? And what of all that talk of illegal aliens being willing to study citizenship and civics? And take English classes? Why must they be bribed with the promise of a temporary guest-worker visa and mass governmental pardon in order to adapt to our way of life? When did assimilation become the means and not an end in itself?

The inflection point can perhaps be traced to the moment when politicians were permitted to invoke the "America-is-a-nation-of-immigrants" platitude as a mindless justification for open borders.

The fact is: We are not a "nation of immigrants." This is both a factual error and a warm-and-fuzzy non sequitur. Eighty-five percent of the residents currently in the United States were born here. Sure, we are almost all descendants of immigrants. But we are not a "nation of immigrants."

(Isn't it funny, by the way, how the politically correct multiculturalists who claim we are a "nation of immigrants" are so insensitive toward Native American Indians, Native Alaskans, Native Hawaiians and descendants of black slaves who did not "immigrate" here in any common sense of the word?)

Even if we were a "nation of immigrants," it does not explain why we should be against sensible immigration control. And if the open-borders advocates would actually read American history instead of revising it, they would see that the Founding Fathers were emphatically insistent on protecting the country against indiscriminate mass immigration. They insisted on assimilation as a pre-condition, not an afterthought. Historian John Fonte assembled their wisdom:
  • * George Washington, in a letter to John Adams, stated that immigrants should be absorbed into American life so that "by an intermixture with our people, they, or their descendants, get assimilated to our customs, measures, laws: in a word soon become one people."

    * In a 1790 speech to Congress on the naturalization of immigrants, James Madison stated that America should welcome the immigrant who could assimilate, but exclude the immigrant who could not readily "incorporate himself into our society."

    * In 1802, Alexander Hamilton wrote: "The safety of a republic depends essentially on the energy of a common national sentiment; on a uniformity of principles and habits; on the exemption of the citizens from foreign bias and prejudice; and on that love of country which will almost invariably be found to be closely connected with birth, education and family."

    * Hamilton further warned that "The United States have already felt the evils of incorporating a large number of foreigners into their national mass; by promoting in different classes different predilections in favor of particular foreign nations, and antipathies against others, it has served very much to divide the community and to distract our councils. It has been often likely to compromise the interests of our own country in favor of another.

    "The permanent effect of such a policy will be, that in times of great public danger there will be always a numerous body of men, of whom there may be just grounds of distrust; the suspicion alone will weaken the strength of the nation, but their force may be actually employed in assisting an invader."

    * The survival of the American republic, Hamilton maintained, depends upon "the preservation of a national spirit and a national character." "To admit foreigners indiscriminately to the rights of citizens the moment they put foot in our country would be nothing less than to admit the Grecian horse into the citadel of our liberty and sovereignty."

    We are not a nation of immigrants. We are first and foremost a nation of laws. The U.S. Constitution does not say that the paramount duty of government is to "celebrate diversity" or to "embrace multiculturalism" or to give "every willing worker" in the world a job. The Preamble to the U.S. Constitution says the Constitution was established "to provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty."


As our Founding Fathers recognized, fulfilling these fundamental duties is impossible without an orderly immigration and entrance system that discriminates in favor of those willing, as George Washington put it, to "get assimilated to our customs, measures [and] laws."

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Just because I believe in allowing these people to stay and allowing more immigrants in the country (hispanic not arab, muslim, indian or chinese)....I also have been saying for years that everything in this country should be English Only. No more crutches....you want to stay then you better speak English.

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rex Offline
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 Originally Posted By: PJP
I also have been saying for years that everything in this country should be English Only. No more crutches....you want to stay then you better speak English.


I think if we passed a law making English the official language it would change a lot of opinions on the immigration debate.


November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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I agree 100% rex.....people won't feel like they are ebing invaded if the people coming in are embracing the language and culture.....you can practice your own language and culture at home....but don't go into restaurants or banks and expect to be catered to in your native tongue.

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I think we should start with just the government and its agencies becoming english only. Make people learn English to get their drivers license or even welfare. Right now we are encouraging foreigners to not adapt to the language.

Private companies and businesses should be able to do whatever they want when it comes to what language they use. The government shouldn't be telling them what to do.


November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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I agree with Pappas. And rex.

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070803/ap_on_re_us/immigration_employer_crackdown
 Quote:
Employers across the country may have to fire workers with questionable Social Security numbers to avoid getting snagged in a Bush administration crackdown on illegal immigrants.

The Department of Homeland Security is expected to make public soon new rules for employers notified when a worker's name or Social Security number is flagged by the Social Security Administration.

The rule as drafted requires employers to fire people who can't be verified as a legal worker and can't resolve within 60 days why the name or Social Security number on their W-2 doesn't match the government's database.

Employers who don't comply could face fines of $250 to $10,000 per illegal worker and incident.

"There's a lot of fear and anxiety about what this rule is going to mean, particularly in the agricultural sector," said Craig Regelbrugge, spokesman for the American Nursery and Landscape Association and co-chairman of the Agriculture Coalition for Immigration Reform.

For years, the Social Security Administration has sent "no match" letters to workers and their employers notifying them of the information discrepancies, to make sure money withheld from a person's paycheck is credited to the correct worker. The letters are not shared with other government agencies because of privacy laws.

Although employers are prohibited from hiring illegal workers, their responsibilities with the letters have generally ended with notifying the workers of the discrepancies and leaving it to them to deal with it.

Attorneys have warned many employers to be careful not to fire a worker because they got a letter, because the no-match could be the result of a typo in a name or number, a computer error, a name change that wasn't reported after marriage or other reasons.

But those who don't comply with the new rule could be deemed as knowingly hiring an illegal worker.

The Department of Homeland Security says the new rule provides guidance to employers on how to deal with workers who receive no-match letters and what to do — fire them — if the issue is not resolved in 60 days and they can't verify their workers are legal. It gives employers who comply immunity from penalties if illegal workers are found at their business in an investigation or raid, said Russ Knocke, Homeland Security department spokesman.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a division of the Homeland Security Department, "is going to be tough and aggressive in the enforcement of the law," Knocke said. "You are going to see more work site cases. And no more excuses."

The administration trotted out the stepped-up enforcement plan last summer but put it on hold while the Senate debated an immigration reform bill.

That bill would have granted a chance at legal status for the estimated 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants in the country and created a temporary worker program. It also would have required employers to verify the status of all their workers.

After the bill collapsed in Congress, employers started bracing for the tougher rule.

"Congress didn't act. They didn't do what they needed to do on comprehensive immigration reform. Now there's going to be some pain to pay, and Congress is not going to feel the pain right away, it's the communities (of employees), and that's a real shame," said Laura Reiff, co-chairwoman of the Essential Workers Immigration Coalition, a national group of business and trade associations.

For Mark Chamblee, the stricter rule could mean losing some of his 28 workers at his nursery in Tyler, Texas.

Chamblee suspects a few of his workers could have trouble with their Social Security numbers and said he will fire them if the problems aren't resolved.

"Of course, it would add to the workload for the other workers," he said. "It would reduce our production and our output. Not all of our demand would be met on our products. Operating costs would go up."

Ray Atkinson, a spokesman for Pilgrim's Pride Corp., confirmed that the country's largest chicken processing company recently fired employees at two Texas plants.

The company's policy "for some time now" has been to terminate employees who can't clear up discrepancies, Atkinson said.

"We're all very cautious and we're all very nervous," Chamblee said.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

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This is my favorite bit:

 Quote:
For Mark Chamblee, the stricter rule could mean losing some of his 28 workers at his nursery in Tyler, Texas.

Chamblee suspects a few of his workers could have trouble with their Social Security numbers and said he will fire them if the problems aren't resolved.


In other words, he's pretty damn sure that 28 of his employees are illegals, yet he's kept them on the payroll anyway. So he knowingly broke the law and is now boo-hooing about the fact that he's going to have to finally conform to the laws of his own country.



Congratulations, Mark Chamblee. You're a douche.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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"Precisely, old chum!"

And the real irony is that this guy uses illegals so that he can pay them shit wages and, yet, he probably calls the people who want him to stop "racist."

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Here's how CNN describes the suspect in one of the more heinous crimes to hit the Northeast in at least the past two weeks

  • An undocumented immigrant pleaded not guilty Friday to murder and related charges in the execution-style slayings of three college students in a schoolyard.

    The crime shocked residents of Newark, New Jersey, galvanizing them to express their outrage at the city's street violence.

    Jose Carranza, 28, was formally charged in Essex County Superior Court with murder, attempted murder, robbery and various conspiracy and weapons offenses.


Somehow CNN's Mr. Undocumented found a way to surrender in person to the mayor of Newark:

  • Wearing an orange jail jumpsuit, Carranza spoke softly through a translator. He had surrendered Thursday to Mayor Cory A. Booker, who attended the arraignment.

    "He knew maybe if he turned himself in to me he would be safer, but my focus was to get him off the streets," Booker said Friday morning during an appearance on CNN's "American Morning."


It gets better...here's more on Mr. Undocumented:

  • Carranza had been scheduled to appear in court Monday to answer two previous indictments. One accuses him of sexually assaulting and threatening to kill a 13-year-old, a girlfriend's child. Another charges him with an array of assault and weapons offenses.


Do you think CNN might ask why the mayor of Newark would accept the personal surrender of an alleged illegal immigrant/murderer/child rapist? Nahh....

I'm starting to think we're about one or two more totally avoidable crimes by illegal aliens away from having 2008 turn from an election on Iraq to one focused on which party is going to step up and start policing our streets again.

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San Diego Union Tribune:

  • A federal transportation agency yesterday defended President Bush's plan to open the border to long-haul Mexican truck traffic in a response to overwhelmingly negative public views of the proposal.

    The 27-page defense appearing in the [url=http://www.access.gpo.gov su_docs/fedreg/ a070817c.html]Federal Register[/url] advances the controversial cross-border trucking pilot program one step closer to implementation.

    Bush has sought to conduct the program as part of his effort to comply with a provision of the North.



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The American Spectator reports that "Rudy Giuliani announced his plan to get control of the borders... In an interview, Giuliani's top adviser on immigration, Robert Bonner, described Giuliani's plan":

  • Giuliani is "committed to not repeating the mistakes of the past." He says that "we didn't come close" to keeping the promises of the 1986 Act to build up border forces and increase staffing, noting that the level of roughly 4,000 border enforcement agents remained roughly constant throughout the Clinton administration
  • "You have to have a commitment to control the borders. We are a sovereign nation. That's what sovereign nations do." He says that it is absurd to pursue a plan to fence just 700 miles of the border. He is emphatic that we "need a fence that extends the entire 2,000 miles."
  • In regards to the illegal immigrants already here, we should focus "on first things first." He says: "If the boat is leaking, you need to plug the leaks. If you don't, why bother with the rest of it?" He does offer that "we are not going to give special benefits to people who have broken the rules."
  • Giuliani "is the only candidate who has articulated a plan and the only one with leadership skills to get it done." Giuliani's CompStat program for reducing crime in New York City [would be adapted] "for holding people accountable for crime and apply it to the border, which is an enforcement issue." He says Giuliani sees enforcement of the borders as "100%, not 70% and not 80%" attainable.
  • Giuliani places great weight on a "biometric fraud proof ID card" for foreign workers. He terms the present system, which allows employers to accept without question any two of 29 types of identification, rife with "massive fraud." Under the system Giuliani is recommending, employers would have a single biometric card and would be required to "query a database." The aim is to "make it difficult for employers to look the other way." In short, he says that by changing the employer verification system and greatly increasing penalties you will "turn off the magnet" that attracts illegal immigrants.
  • aside from the issue of illegal immigration the loss of border security is a national security danger. He says "in a post-9-11 world and in an era of Islamic terrorists it is essential" to control who is entering the country. "no one knows it better" that Giuliani, who has made it his second commitment. Giuliani has the "most credibility on counterterrorism," which includes border control, and he reiterates that Al Qaeda contemplated a plot for "infiltration" of America through the Mexican border.
  • the Giuliani camp clearly will seek to characterize immigration as a law enforcement and national security issue.

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he just wants to Disneyfy the border and drive out all the porn.
\:\(


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 Originally Posted By: Raymond Adler
...what I love best: wasting space on the politics board



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has anyone even found that joke funny?


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some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm?
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 Quote:
Print Edition

Mark Boster / Los Angeles Times


HELP WANTED: As border enforcement has tightened, U.S. farms, such as one in Imperial Valley, shown in 2005, are having a more difficult time finding workers, the administration says.

U.S. lets in more immigrants for farms

The administration is quietly relaxing visa regulations because farmworkers are in critically short supply.

By Nicole Gaouette, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
October 7, 2007

WASHINGTON -- With a nationwide farmworker shortage threatening to leave unharvested fruits and vegetables rotting in fields, the Bush administration has begun quietly rewriting federal regulations to eliminate barriers that restrict how foreign laborers can legally be brought into the country.

The effort, urgently underway at the departments of Homeland Security, State and Labor, is meant to rescue farm owners caught in a vise between a complex process to hire legal guest workers and stepped-up enforcement that has reduced the number of illegal planters, pickers and middle managers crossing the border.


"It is important for the farm sector to have access to labor to stay competitive," said White House spokesman Scott Stanzel. "As the southern border has tightened, some producers have a more difficult time finding a workforce, and that is a factor of what is going on today."

The push to speedily rewrite the regulations is also the Bush administration's attempt to step into a breach left when Congress did not pass an immigration overhaul in June that might have helped American farms. Almost three-quarters of farmworkers are thought to be illegal immigrants.

On all sides of the farm industry, the administration's behind-the-scenes initiative to revamp H-2A farmworker visas is fraught with anxiety. Advocates for immigrants fear the changes will come at the expense of worker protections because the administration has received and is reportedly acting on extensive input from farm lobbyists. And farmers in areas such as the San Joaquin Valley, which is experiencing a 20% labor shortfall, worry the administration's changes will not happen soon enough for the 2008 growing season.

"It's like a ticking time bomb that's going to go off," said Luawanna Hallstrom, chief operating officer of Harry Singh & Sons, a third-generation family farm in Oceanside that grows tomatoes. "I'm looking at my fellow farmers and saying, 'Oh my God, what's going on?' "

Officials at the three federal agencies are scrutinizing the regulations to see whether they can adjust the farmworker program, an unwieldy system used by less than 2% of American farms to bring in foreign workers. They are considering a series of changes, including lengthening the time workers can stay, expanding the types of work they can do, simplifying how their applications are processed, and redefining terms such as "temporary."

Administration sources said they were moving aggressively. They declined to discuss details of the proposals.

The agencies are also working on possible changes to a separate visa program, H-2B, which brings in seasonal workers for resorts, clam-shucking operations and horse stables, among other businesses.

The administration has pursued the project discreetly. The issue of immigration has generated friction between President Bush and the conservative wing of the Republican Party, which has strongly opposed many of the initiatives that Bush has pursued.

The changes to the H-2A visa program comprise one of more than two dozen initiatives the administration announced in August. Most of the initiatives dealt with increased enforcement, the most prominent being a measure that would force employers to either fire workers for whom they've received "no match" notification (indicating their W-2 data don't match Social Security Administration records) or face punitive action from the Department of Homeland Security. When Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced the enforcement push, he also acknowledged the problems that agriculture reported.

"Even putting aside no-match letters, just our increased work at the border was actually causing a drop in the number of workers coming across," Chertoff said.

David James, an assistant secretary of Labor, said Bush asked his department, which has jurisdiction over most H-2A rules, to review the entire program. The agency "is now in the process of identifying ways the program can be improved to provide farmers with an orderly and timely flow of legal workers while protecting the rights of both U.S. workers and foreign temporary workers," James said.

The current program, managed by all three agencies, is famously dysfunctional.

Farmers have to apply for workers about a month in advance, but the agencies often fail to coordinate their response in time for the harvest, which farmers can't always predict. At Hallstrom's farm, where tidy rows of tomato plants run almost to the ocean's edge, half of the 1,000 workers are in the H-2A program. (Nationally, about 60,000 H-2A applications a year are usually filed, compared with more than 3 million farm jobs to be filled. There is no cap on the number of H-2A workers allowed into the U.S.)

She remembers submitting an emergency request for H-2A workers one year and getting the visas 60 days later. She said the laborers spent two weeks pulling rotten fruit off the vines, and the farm lost $2.5 million. "Devastating," Hallstrom said.

Growers also complain about paying for workers' housing, transportation, visas and other fees. Harry Yates, a North Carolina Christmas-tree grower, estimates that his labor costs for H-2A workers are $14 an hour, compared with a competitor whose illegal laborers cost about $7.50 an hour. Like other farmers, Yates said using the H-2A program was an invitation to lawsuits from worker advocates and frequent government investigations.

"I understand why so many growers are afraid to use this program. It is too expensive, too complicated, too slow and too likely to land you in court," Yates said.

Some advocates for workers fiercely dispute this. They say farmers just want to keep wages low.

"The employers want to be free of government oversight, legal-services representation for the guest workers, and other efforts to enforce the modest H-2A worker protections," said Bruce Goldstein, executive director of the advocacy group Farmworker Justice, which is affiliated with the nonprofit National Council of La Raza.

Industry lobbyists have sent the Bush administration a set of detailed suggestions for overhauling the H-2A program through administrative changes, which could take weeks to put in place, and through changes in the regulations, a process that takes months.

Some of the suggestions under consideration include changing the procedures farmers must use to try to hire U.S. citizens first. Currently farmers have to advertise the jobs, then submit applications to Labor and Homeland Security to bring in foreign workers. Growers would prefer to move to a system in which they pledged that they had done all they could to recruit U.S. workers, but no longer had to submit an application to Labor.

Other changes under consideration would simplify the detailed H-2A housing requirements, extend the definition of "temporary" beyond 10 months, and expand the definition of "agricultural" workers to include such industries as meatpacking and poultry processing.

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Islamic Terrorists Wanted to Attack U.S. Base in Arizona
  • Islamic terrorists with the assistance of Mexican drug cartels might have been planning an attack on the U.S. Army base Fort Huachuca in Arizona, forcing the nation's largest intelligence training center to change security measures back in May.

    as many as 60 Afghan and Iraqi terrorists would attempt to enter the United States via underground tunnels that have sprouted underneath the U.S.-Mexico border in recent years under funding by drug- and human-smuggling operations. The terrorists were said to be planning to use high-powered weapons to mount their attack.

    "A portion of the operatives were in the United States, with the remainder not yet in the United States," according to a confidential document, an FBI advisory that was distributed to the Defense Intelligence Agency, the CIA, Customs and Border Protection and the Justice Department, among several other law enforcement agencies throughout the nation. "The Afghanis and Iraqis shaved their beards so as not to appear to be Middle Easterners."

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Researching this the other day, I was struck how the only places reporting this story were mostly all conservative papers, local Arizona sources and or FOX affiliates and they all had the same source for the story, The Washington Times.

So I decided to bide my time, one way or another until more sources (major ones and not right wing rags) actually ran with this or else (more likely) it was debunked, before I actually commented. Seems we now know why more people (non Wingnut) didn't run with this:

 Quote:
Tucson Region
FBI dismisses Fort Huachuca terror plot story

By Aaron Mackey

Arizona Daily Star

Tucson, Arizona | Published: 11.27.2007

The plot was like something from a Hollywood blockbuster: dozens of foreign terrorists working with a Mexican drug cartel to attack a Southern Arizona Army post with anti-tank missiles and grenade launchers.
Paying one of Mexico's most ruthless drug cartels $20,000 apiece, 60 Afghan and Iraqi terrorists would be smuggled into Texas and hole up at a safe house.
Their weapons, Soviet-made and easily acquired on the black market, were funneled through Arizona and New Mexico in hand-dug tunnels that cut across the border.
Their target: 13,500 military personnel and civilians working at Fort Huachuca, roughly 75 miles southeast of Tucson.
But the plot, widely reported by local stations and national TV networks and The Washington Times, turned out to be nothing more than fiction, an FBI spokesman said Monday.


"A thorough investigation was conducted, and there is no evidence showing that the threat was credible," said Manuel Johnson, an FBI spokesman based in Phoenix.
Experts earlier in the day expressed skepticism about the intelligence, which said the terrorists — who would shave their beards to fit in — planned to strike last May.
The group purchased anti-tank missiles, rocket-propelled grenades, rifles and handguns and was working with the Gulf Cartel to get into the United States, according to an account in the Times, which cited confidential law enforcement documents it had obtained.


The advisory, which was passed to Fort Huachuca commanders, caused the post to alter its security, though officials wouldn't say what they did.
Details of potential terrorist attacks against military installations routinely surface, post officials and intelligence experts said.
"As often as the FBI receives reports, they pass them along to us," said Lt. Col. Matthew L. Garner, a post spokesman.
He said he didn't know if post officials were skeptical of the intelligence but said all threats are taken seriously.


Officials at the post, less than a dozen miles from the Mexican border, routinely arrest illegal entrants on fort property, usually after they come up through the Huachuca Mountains.
In the last fiscal year, which ended in October, post officials caught 961 illegal entrants, according to records kept by Fort Huachuca military police. Of those, 684 were of Mexican descent while 277 came from elsewhere — though a further breakdown wasn't available.


Retired Maj. Gen. James "Spider" Marks, who served as a senior intelligence officer during the invasion of Iraq and commanded Fort Huachuca's intelligence program from 2001 to 2004, said military installations routinely receive intelligence saying they're potential targets.
While he hadn't seen the reports cited by the Times, Marks said that, in general, it's crucial to always question the validity of the sources involved.
The intelligence about the Fort Huachuca plot came secondhand from Drug Enforcement Administration sources in Mexico who were "of uncertain reliability," the Times reported.

"It's unfortunate that you have to assess credibility of intelligence after the fact," said Marks, who now runs a private intelligence-contracting business in Virginia.

Another intelligence expert questioned the timing of the leaked documents that detailed the plot, especially considering their release came some six months after the attack was supposed to have taken place.

"The timing is interesting," said Stephen Flanagan, director of the international security program at the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, a think tank that specializes in security and economic policy. "On the other hand, these plots take time to unfold."

Even though unfounded, the plot speaks to the continued threat of weapons, drugs and possibly even terrorists coming across the border, he said.
"I think it's a general reminder that any military institution in the United States needs to be wary," he said. "The fact is, we know that the terrorist groups are always looking for a weak link in some chain."


Again, ... um.. I dunoo... Why is it that rightwingers are so desperately eager to stoke fear? This one though was a one two punch because it tried to stoke fear and anti-immigrant sentiment all at once. Which is why i was so skeptical about it to begin with.

Now we've been hearing the rhetoric from the right for a long time now. About how we need to secure the border, not because of illegal Mexicans mind you. No, that's not ominous enough for most people to want to spend millions on. No, we must secure our borders, (or just the southern one actually ;\) ) to protect us from *TAH DUM!* THE TERRORISTS!!

Now sure, this could easily have just been a mistake, an honest one. It happens. But given the rhetoric, repeated and incessant rhetoric from right wing circles who try to conflate border control with terrorism and 9/11, I can't help but to wonder if they're now trying to subtly portray illegal Mexicans not just being a threat to America's sovereignty, as Wondy so often asserts, but as a collaborator to terrorism and threat to America, period!

I dunoo... it's rather insidious if it's true. I can only think of the anti-Japanese hysteria during World War II to find any parallels... And we've seen how so many on the right defend that as well.


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Reuters is reporting an uptick in illegal immigrants self-deporting, due in part to stepped up enforcement.

This is in line with other reports I've seen, although the evidence still seems largely anecdotal.

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do terrorists come in from Mexico...ever?
i've heard of them trying to get in from Canada, but never Mexico.
i wonder if wondy would care more about that unsecured border if canadians weren't white english speakers.


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 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
do terrorists come in from Mexico...ever?
i've heard of them trying to get in from Canada, but never Mexico.


The UK Telegraph:
  • [In 2004] border agents from Arizona and Texas [reported] encounters with dozens of Arab men, who have made their way across the 2,000-mile Mexican border.

    Patrol agents told one Arizona newspaper that 77 males "of Middle Eastern descent" were apprehended in June in two separate incidents. All were trekking through the Chiricahua mountains and are believed to have been part of a larger group of illegal immigrants. Many were released pending immigration hearings. According to Solomon Ortiz, the Congressman for Corpus Christi in Texas, similar incidents are "happening all over the place. It's very, very scary".

    The two groups of Arab males were discovered by patrol guards from Willcox, Arizona. "These guys didn't speak Spanish," said one field agent, "and they were speaking to each other in Arabic. It's ridiculous that we don't take this more seriously. We're told not to say a thing to the media." A colleague told the paper: "All the men had brand-new clothing and the exact same cut of moustache." Local ranchers have also reported a rise in the sightings of large groups of young males.

    Last month, border patrol agents at McAllen airport, Texas, arrested a woman believed to be Pakistani, who was carrying a false South African passport. The woman, Farida Ahmed, is still being questioned by the FBI. She was travelling to New York, and admitted to having illegally crossed the Mexican border. She was still carrying a pair of wet jeans in her travel bag.

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Baconfuck!

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Where'd you get that avatar?

I'd like to wank off to that.

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Anonymous Thu Jan 03 2008 10:30 PM Reading a post
Forum: Politics and Current Events
Thread: The Minutemen (& other names guaranteed to NOT get you laid)

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