RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events Rudy in '08

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These data are not likely to predict what will actually happen in 2008. Indeed, the issues that will define the 2008 election -- let alone the party's choice of candidates -- are not even known. But the data do give a sense of the candidates' basic appeal at this time, and the contenders likely will be relying on poll data such as these as one factor in helping to determine whether or not they will formally seek the presidency.

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theory9 said:
I understand.
My point was that we could wade through all of the polls done in the past and find numerous examples of polls that didn't hold up during crunchtime. What I don't know much about when it comes to Rudy is his fiscal policy.

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wannabuyamonkey said:
If Rudy's an East Cost only phenomenon, then why are we discussing him so viehmently? I think more people on the streets in the West coast know who Rudy is than know who thier own representitives are in the house.

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Animalman said:
Obviously, the '08 election will be Rice and Clinton because God hates me and is intent on making me take back my comments about Bush and Kerry being the worst set of Presidential candidates ever.

I suppose the Democrats could nominate Sandy Berger to go against Rice. The Presidential debate theme could be "I was the National Security Advisor, now watch me explain how my fuckup was really just a big misunderstanding". I'd watch.

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Sandy Berger could never win! His name sounds like a bar-b-que mishap at the beach.

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the G-man said:

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theory9 said:
I understand.
My point was that we could wade through all of the polls done in the past and find numerous examples of polls that didn't hold up during crunchtime. What I don't know much about when it comes to Rudy is his fiscal policy.

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I understand your point, but I don't really think it relevant to my point, which was name recognition only (which is basically all that polls this early measure), not policies, which, as you note, ultimately will affect the vote.

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Cool.

WASHINGTON - Rudolph Giuliani plans to return to politics, he said Wednesday, but argued it's too early to say if that will be for the 2008 presidential campaign.

"I think I'll return to politics," said Giuliani during a speech to credit card companies.

Giuliani, dubbed "America's Mayor," after his performance as New York City mayor during the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, has spent the years since working as a highly paid corporate executive and public speaker.

The first question from audience members at a the gathering concerned his possible return to public office.


Asked if he had any "political visions," Giuliani laughed and rubbed his forehead.

"I have some political visions. I don't know what they are yet, they're a little foggy," he said.

Though he wasn't asked specifically about the next presidential campaign, Giuliani mentioned the 2008 race and said "it's too far away" to make a decision on running.

National polls regularly place Giuliani among the most popular Republican vote-getters, and he is asked about his plans at almost every public appearance. He usually deflects the question by suggesting he would not decide on 2008 until after the 2006 congressional elections.

During a visit to Denmark on Sunday, Giuliani said he would consider the presidential race "next year."

In the 2004 presidential campaign, the former mayor campaigned strenuously for President Bush's re-election.

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Little surprise then that he went on to both embarrass himself and the entire city with the humiliating spectacle in 1995 of having Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat ejected from the Lincoln Center in Manhattan on a visit to the US on the grounds he was a terrorist. So appalled was then Clinton administration that they publicly criticized him for it. As ever, of course, Guiliani was completely unrepentant, simply dismissing the man as a terrorist whilst evidently unaware of the fact that has had been democratically elected as the head of his people some 6 years earlier.

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NEW YORK — After the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center, then New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani was commonly referred to as "America’s Mayor." The latest FOX News poll finds that many Americans remember Giuliani's leadership in a time of crisis and rate him higher than several other potential 2008 presidential contenders as a "strong and decisive leader."

Almost two-thirds of voters (65 percent) think Giuliani is a "strong and decisive leader," and majorities think that characterization also applies to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., (56 percent), Sec. of State Condoleezza Rice (55 percent), President Bush (51 percent) and Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y. (51 percent). Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., and former Vice President Al Gore (search) come in well below the others, with majorities saying the term "strong and decisive leader" does not apply to them.

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the G-man said:

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Little surprise then that he went on to both embarrass himself and the entire city with the humiliating spectacle in 1995 of having Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat ejected from the Lincoln Center in Manhattan on a visit to the US on the grounds he was a terrorist. So appalled was then Clinton administration that they publicly criticized him for it. As ever, of course, Guiliani was completely unrepentant, simply dismissing the man as a terrorist whilst evidently unaware of the fact that has had been democratically elected as the head of his people some 6 years earlier.

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That only makes Rudy more of a hero in my eyes. Arafat was a terrorist, elected or not.

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G-man, you make an excellent point!

Two Chicago political operatives who think Rudy Giuliani should be running the country started a campaign yesterday to turn America's Mayor into America's President.

"Draft Rudy Giuliani for President" filed paperwork with the Federal Election Commission allowing them to raise money to form a national organization.

"We think he's the strongest candidate in fall of 2008," said former Illinois GOP chairman Allen Fore, who aims to have signed up coordinators in all 50 states by May.

"This whole effort is to show him the broad base of support that there is out there. We hope that will be a factor in his decision."

Polls show that if voters had their choice right now, the 2008 race would be an all-New York blockbuster cage match between Giuliani and Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton - and he would win.

Giuliani said recently that it's too early to decide whether to run in 2008, but he did add, "I think I'll return to politics."

His spokeswoman Sunny Mindel had a terse "no comment" when asked about the Draft Rudy movement.

Fore brushed off the idea that Giuliani's positions on abortion, gay rights and gun control would turn off conservative GOP primary voters.

"Leadership is going to be the primary issue in this coming election," he said. "What Rudy showed us after 9/11 got him unbelievable broad public support. He transcends a lot of issues."

Giuliani and Arizona Sen. John McCain are easily the most popular Republicans nationally, but Giuliani blows McCain away among GOP voters.

Political pundits have long discounted former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani's presidential prospects, claiming that his particular brand of tough-talking, socially moderate conservatism would never play south of the Mason-Dixon Line. But Rudy has never been one to listen to conventional wisdom, and lately at least, he has been turning up the heat in southern conservative political circles.

In just the last week, he endorsed Texas Republican Gov. Rick Perry for re-election and met with Evangelicals in Florida. Most impressively, he actually outpaced U.S. Senator John McCain in a just-released Georgia poll, garnering the support of 28 percent of Georgia Republicans to McCain's 22 percent, echoing numbers in December's CNN/USA Today/Gallup nationwide poll. The conservative blog, RightWingNews reported last week that while Condoleezza Rice was the top choice of 230 conservative bloggers for the Republican nomination, Giuliani came in second, beating out U.S. Senator George Allen and Newt Gingrich. Nationwide, Rudy earned a 63 percent favorable rating in a Pew Research Center poll in October.

In addition to supporting Perry, Giuliani has planted a Texas-sized footstep in the Lone Star State—now with three more Electoral College votes than New York. Last spring, he became a name partner in a Houston law firm, Bracewell and Giuliani, noted for its Bush connections and roster of major energy clients.

The Catholic mayor is also busy burnishing his ties to Christian conservatives. Pat Robertson has said Rudy would make "a good president" and the mayor was a headliner for a fundraising committee supporting former Christian Coalition executive Ralph Reed in his bid to be Georgia's lieutenant governor. Last week, Giuliani dropped by an Orlando meeting of the Global Pastors Network and told the Evangelical leaders that "only God knows" if he will run for president.

The group offered their prayers for him and he responded in kind, showing an openly devout side not many people had seen before: "I can't tell you from my heart how much I appreciate what you are doing—saving people, telling them about Jesus Christ and bringing them to God."

America loves Rudy Giuliani. A new poll shows "America's Mayor" inspiring the warmest feelings nationwide among 2008 presidential contenders.

With his presidential dreams shifting into gear, former Mayor Rudy Giuliani is set to jet through Iowa tomorrow - his first trip to the presidential battleground since 2004.

But the question already being whispered by many Iowa Republicans is: How does a pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control, twice-divorced moderate from the Northeast play in the mostly conservative cornfields of Iowa?

"It's a little bit of a challenge," conceded David Roederer, who ran President Bush's successful Iowa caucus effort in 2004 and is expected to meet privately with Giuliani tomorrow. "It is no big secret that Rudy is perceived as a little more left-of-center than many Republicans."

And therein lies the rub for Giuliani, not just in Iowa but in vast stretches of red state America, where conservative voters hold sway and generally determine who makes it to November.

Giuliani will get a hero's welcome when he hits Iowa tomorrow, home to the first critical caucus on the presidential calendar.

He can expect to be hailed as "America's Mayor" for his leadership on 9/11 at fund-raisers in Des Moines and Davenport, and also at a paid, motivational speech that Giuliani will give to some 18,000 ticketed fans.

But party activists in Iowa and elsewhere know that, once voters push past the veneer of 9/11, they may see a much more complex person - a big-city mayor with moderate views on most social issues who, separated from his wife, once lived with two gay friends and their Shih Tzu, Bonnie.

Giuliani's aides are, of course, acutely aware of the new scrutiny the former mayor's credentials may face, and they are working hard to put a conservative veneer on them.

That explains why, on May 18, Giuliani will host a fund-raiser for former Christian Coalition head Ralph Reed, who is running for lieutenant governor in Georgia.

Not that Giuliani plans to change his views to fit the times - that would be very un-Rudy-like, his aides say. But conservative audiences may also start to hear more about those parts of Giuliani's past that do speak to them.

"He's also governed the largest city in America for eight years and dramatically reduced crime, dramatically reduced welfare and cut taxes," said Anthony Carbonetti, Giuliani's chief political strategist. "Those are conservative credentials I will match against anyone's."

Those who count out Giuliani because of the politics of abortion and gay rights have lost sight of the broad outlines of our age. The fight against terrorism is not only the defining issue of our time, but it represents an epic event in the history of Western civilization. Giuliani is the best leader available to confront the terrorist threat, which is why the course of history points to his becoming president

Sept. 11 was not Giuliani's first brush with Islamic extremism, and in a sense, his whole career has been building toward a confrontation with terrorism. As a U.S. Attorney, Giuliani investigated the 1985 murder of Leon Klinghoffer, the Jewish New Yorker who was sitting in his wheelchair when he was thrown overboard from the Achille Lauro cruise ship by Palestinian terrorists. Giuliani dedicated a good portion of his 1994 mayoral inauguration speech to the first attack on the World Trade Center.

Despite being ridiculed as paranoid, Giuliani built an emergency command center in New York City to prepare for an attack. (The center was poorly located in 7 World Trade Center, which was destroyed with the Twin Towers, but the fact that he was preparing for such threats before Sept. 11 demonstrates that Giuliani was ahead of his time.)


AS HE FOUGHT TO TRANSFORM New York City, the New York Times editorial board and liberal interest groups denounced him every step of the way. Giuliani's style of forcefully stating his position and going on the offensive during press conferences will win him the respect of conservative primary voters who are fed up with pandering Republican politicians. In fact, this may be the main factor that ends up separating him from McCain, whose reputation as a maverick has been built on taking positions that made him into a liberal media darling.

Giuliani is more than just a tough talker. Throughout his career, whether it was as a mob prosecutor, a crime fighting mayor or an entrepreneur, Giuliani has shown an ability to think creatively about solving problems. And since Sept. 11, no politician has spoken with more depth or intelligence about the nature of the terrorist threat. This will become apparent during any televised debate with Republican opponents.

Two years is an eternity in politics, no doubt. But no matter what happens between now and then, the threat of terrorism, unfortunately, will still be with us and remain the defining issue of the campaign. Given Giuliani's record of overcoming long odds, of achieving things that many people once viewed as impossible, it is startling that anybody would dismiss his chances of becoming president. Those who do so are not only severely underestimating the man, but they are misjudging the trajectory of history.

A recent column by Washington's premiere political pundit, Robert Novak, only underlines the obvious: The question is not If Giuliani runs, but When he openly declares that he is running. Though Novak does not say when, I would speculate that Giuliani will announce by the end of this year.

A recent Gallup Poll asked the question of its participants: Who they would opt for as the Republican front runner in the 2008 presidential election? At the end of day, Gallup had Giuliani at 29%, while Senator John McCain, R-Ariz, came in at 24%.

What's worth noting here is that the battle for the 2008 presidency will be fought by two well-known political figures who both share the non-too-complimentary appellation of "RINO," or "Republican in name only."

Though Giuliani is considered by conservative GOP insiders as too socially liberal to capture the support of the hard-core right of the party, this writer believes otherwise.

Giuliani made his mark in political circles by joining the office of U.S. Attorney, eventually rising to U. S. Executive Attorney. In 1975, Giuliani went on to Washington to eventually become the third-highest ranking member -- Associate Attorney General -- in Ronald Reagan's Justice Department.

Giuliani was then appointed U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, where he gained national standing by indicting such notables as Bill and Hillary Clinton pal Marc Rich and Mafia crime boss Paul Castellano. Giuliani first became mayor of New York City in 1994 until the close of 2001, and is now the CEO of Giuliani Partners LLC.

The primary contest that will eventually come down between Sen. John McCain and Giuliani will be fought on a number of fronts.

On the basis of name recognition, Giuliani bests John McCain by a considerable degree. Known as "America's Mayor" after the catastrophic events of 9/11, Giuliani was Time magazine's "Person of the Year" in 2001, and since has appeared all around the country, campaigning for GOP local and national candidates across the country.

McCain, though popular, is not as much the household name as Rudy Giuliani is, instead garnering an inordinate amount of attention through the mainstream media. While Giuliani is certainly noticed by the press, McCain is constantly feted by the press. Labeled in some circles as the "media candidate," most notably by radio personality Rush Limbaugh, McCain has become recognized primarily for his willingness to buck his Republican Party, and specifically, President Bush.

It is this distinction that will probably get McCain plenty of air time and space among the liberal press. However, he will pay a price, and the price will be the abandonment of nearly the entire conservative base come the presidential primary.

By contrast, Giuliani, though politically moderate-to-left on some social issues, will be more palatable than McCain to the voters for the simple reason that he is viewed as a man of courage, conviction, and leadership. To many, McCain comes across as the mainstream media has dubbed him -- a "maverick" or "courageous" Republican willing to dare the wrath of the "intractable hard-right of the party" in order to defy the George W. Bush led GOP.

On the issues themselves, McCain and Giuliani will both have their problems.

But McCain's positions and past votes within the Senate -- of which Giuliani has none to worry over -- will make it harder for him to claim solid platform-Republican credentials, much less conservative ones. McCain authored the Campaign Finance Reform bill, which to many in the GOP is a travesty against free speech. McCain has consistently voted against nearly all tax reform or tax cut programs proffered by the Bush administration.

McCain has also embraced the president's ill-advised immigration reform plan, or as most call it, "amnesty-lite." Amusingly, you now see McCain shifting his positions on some of these issues -- like the immigration bill -- as the campaign for 2008 draws ever near. But that is what a voting record is for; it never lets the advancement of time or events forget those votes.

Giuliani, though better positioned for lack of a Washington paper trail, has problems of his own. While iron-jawed and conservative on crime, taxes, and national defense, Giuliani has work to do on gay rights, gun control, and a linchpin of the GOP base, abortion.

I believe that Giuliani will modify his position on all these issues. He will do what so many have done before him regarding these issues, and that is to stress the commonality that he shares with the base -- like being against gay marriage—a maybe even reverse on a key issue, like partial-birth abortion.

In all, I think the Republican base will be more forgiving and receptive of a Washington outsider who turned who turned out to be a living icon of strength and purpose after America suffered its most egregious loss of life on American soil since World War II.

McCain, by contrast, has worn out his welcome by his continuous attacks against Bush, and his willingness to relegate his GOP loyalty to a back seat for the sake of a Sunday morning spot on Meet The Press. McCain has done much to cultivate this image.

Giuliani will campaign on the events of 9/11 and showcase his well-documented leadership, the same thing that has sustained Bush through nearly all else in his presidency. McCain will claim that he has stood fast with Bush since 9/11, and so he has.

But at the end of the day, the GOP elephant never forgets. The party faithful will find it difficult to elect the maverick senator from Arizona, instead opting for the stalwart and iron-willed mayor from New York, who helped show a nation the way back into the light of a new day when the chaotic and nightmarish darkness of 9/11 threatened to bring America to its knees.

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Matter-eater Man said:
The two things that stand out to me with Rudy is that he thinks President Bush is great (perhaps this is the Presidential level he aspires to attain?) & when it was time to finish up his time in New York he tried to stay in power despite an election. This might appeal to some of the far right on this board but probably not to a more moderate electorate.

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Matter-eater Man said:
The two things that stand out to me with Rudy is that he thinks President Bush is great (perhaps this is the Presidential level he aspires to attain?) & when it was time to finish up his time in New York he tried to stay in power despite an election. This might appeal to some of the far right on this board but probably not to a more moderate electorate.

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the G-man said:
Its fun to watch the Democratic spin machine, personified here at the RKMBs by MEM, turn even Rudy Guiliani into some sort of "far right" boogeyman.

I think it says a lot about the radicalization of the current democratic party when a guy who is pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage, not to mention pro gun control, is suddenly "far right" simply because he is a republican.

It tends to put to lie that whole canard of the Democrats that they would embrace republicans who are "moderate." Simply put, no republican is "moderate" (that is, left wing) enough for the current angry desperate left.

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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Matter-eater Man said:
The two things that stand out to me with Rudy is that he thinks President Bush is great (perhaps this is the Presidential level he aspires to attain?) & when it was time to finish up his time in New York he tried to stay in power despite an election. This might appeal to some of the far right on this board but probably not to a more moderate electorate.

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It's funny that the Democrats have put so much energy into campaigning against Bush who can;t run again, that they find a way to campaign against him anyway..... And Rudy is anything but far right.

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Matter-eater Man said:
...when it was time to finish up his time in New York he tried to stay in power despite an election. This might appeal to some of the far right on this board but probably not to a more moderate electorate.

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the G-man said:
Technically, however, Volvo is owned by Ford now, so you can rest easy.

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r3x29yz4a said:

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the G-man said:
Technically, however, Volvo is owned by Ford now, so you can rest easy.

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Ford was a big racist who had admiration for Nazi Germany and personally published several copies of the Elders of Zion book which he believed was real, despite having been debunked years earlier.

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r3x29yz4a said:
Ford was a big racist who had admiration for Nazi Germany .

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r3x29yz4a said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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Matter-eater Man said:
The two things that stand out to me with Rudy is that he thinks President Bush is great (perhaps this is the Presidential level he aspires to attain?) & when it was time to finish up his time in New York he tried to stay in power despite an election. This might appeal to some of the far right on this board but probably not to a more moderate electorate.

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It's funny that the Democrats have put so much energy into campaigning against Bush who can;t run again, that they find a way to campaign against him anyway..... And Rudy is anything but far right.

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You're learning from G-man, I see. You take the first point and harp on that because the second part of his complaint against Rudy is a pretty damn good one.

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Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton is maintaining big leads over potential Republican re-election opponents but would not fare as well among New York voters if she were to face former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani in a 2008 presidential race, pollsters reported Monday.

The poll, by Siena College's Research Institute, found the Republican Giuliani leading the former first lady 48 percent to 42 percent among registered voters asked about a hypothetical 2008 presidential matchup. The poll has a sampling error margin of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

Other recent New York polls have found similar results.

Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, a moderate Republican best known for his stewardship of the city after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, has taken the first step in a 2008 presidential bid, GOP officials said Monday.

The former mayor filed papers to create the Rudy Giuliani Presidential Exploratory Committee, Inc., creating a panel that would allow him to raise money for a White House run and travel the country.

Giuliani was widely praised for leading the city during and after the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. He has said for months that he would wait until the end of the 2006 elections to decide whether to embark on a White House bid.