RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events Rudy in '08

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PJP said:

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Matter-eater Man said:

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the G-man said:
Giuliani Pledges to Fight the 'World Guerrilla War'

[LIST]Giuliani, who is the leading Republican presidential candidate in most polls, took on the mob and turned violent and seedy New York City into an American jewel.

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I thought NYC looked better with the two towers myself.

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that's a really stupid thing to say.

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Matter-eater Man said:

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PJP said:

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Matter-eater Man said:

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the G-man said:
Giuliani Pledges to Fight the 'World Guerrilla War'

[LIST]Giuliani, who is the leading Republican presidential candidate in most polls, took on the mob and turned violent and seedy New York City into an American jewel.

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I thought NYC looked better with the two towers myself.

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that's a really stupid thing to say.

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Would you prefer "Rudy is a cunt"? It was just a less than fair one-liner PJP.

As for what G-man posted about Rudy really getting it, Rudy just acknowledged all the mistakes Bush made concerning Iraq & said he "might" have made them too. We already knew this, since Rudy has been a very vocal supporter of Bush's Iraq policy. Rudy could have made this speach a year ago with the exact same declaration of "now we're doing it right". Next year we'll hear the same speach.

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PJP said:...my "cunt" remarks about Hillary are directed at her and her only. Making a joke about the Twin Towers trivializes alot of good people that died beacause of the scum of the earth muslims.

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the G-man said:
Then, perhaps you'd like to explain your theory that Rudy caused 9/11?

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the G-man said:
Ah, yes, fair play, at all.

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LA Times: Conservatives balk over Giuliani's 'liberal' judges
Published: Monday March 12, 2007

Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani, already facing criticism from many conservatives for some of his more "liberal" policy statements in the past as the former mayor of New York City, is now being attacked for his choices of judges while mayor, which weren't exactly "strict constructionists," the LA Times reports.

"Rudolph W. Giuliani, in an effort to temper his support for abortion rights and his other socially liberal stances, has been assuring conservatives that as president he would appoint 'strict constructionists' to the federal bench, in the tradition of Supreme Court jurists Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Samuel A. Alito Jr. and John G. Roberts Jr.," Tom Hamburger and Adam Schreck report for the LA Times.

"But now, some prominent conservatives are saying that Giuliani's record as mayor undermines that promise," the article continues. "In his eight years leading New York City, they say, Giuliani appointed a number of judges who did not appear to fit the conservative mold."
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Matter-eater Man said:
At this point I hope he does somehow make it through the primary.

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Thanks for the endorsement. Welcome, aboard, Chris.

Unfortunately, what the blog you cited intentionally ommitted included the following:

most of the appointees were Democrats [but] That is not a surprise in New York, an overwhelmingly Democratic city. Many also had prosecutorial experience, which matched the mayor's crime-fighting priorities at the time.

"He was guided by concerns of competence, and he tended to favor what through a New York prism would be called 'law and order,' meaning an enlightened prosecutorial crowd," said New York University law professor Stephen Gillers.

He called it "nonsense" to cite municipal judges, who deal with misdemeanors and small claims, as predictive of how a candidate would approach appointments to the Supreme Court.

Former U.S. Solicitor General Theodore B. Olson, who recently threw his support behind Giuliani, said the controversy was insignificant. Olson said Giuliani, as associate attorney general in the Reagan administration, was involved in high-level discussions about judicial appointments and other issues on a day-to-day basis. Olson described the process as a "collaborative effort" that involved Olson himself, then-Atty. Gen. William French Smith, his chief of staff Kenneth W. Starr and others.

Charles G. Moerdler, a member of a panel that reviewed judicial candidates during Giuliani's tenure, said Giuliani's appointments were based on merit.

Also, while not specifically noted by the Times, it should be remembered that, as Mayor, Giuliani was limited to only those candidates pre-screened by the judicial selection panel. That panel, being located in NYC, tended to favor (due to the pool of lawyers in the city, if nothing else) moderate to liberal candidates. So Rudy was appointing the best of a generally liberal bunch.

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GOP Insiders See Giuliani's Lead as Fragile
March 13, 2007 | 4:03 PM | Permanent Link
This item comes from White House correspondent Kenneth T. Walsh:
Despite former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's lead in the polls, Republican insiders say the GOP base is so divided and Giuliani's ascension is so fragile that the party's presidential nomination for 2008 is totally up for grabs.
"I've never seen the party so split," says a GOP strategist with close ties to evangelical Christians.
Giuliani, despite his strong image from 9/11, consistently falls well short of a majority. The latest CNN survey gives him a 34-18 lead over John McCain in the race for the Republican nomination.
"Contrary to the view inside the Beltway," the strategist says, "we don't have anybody who is the torch bearer or who is remotely agreed upon."
There is also a growing belief among social conservatives that the race isn't starting too early, as some pundits and White House political architect Karl Rove have said. Instead, the GOP rank and file welcomes the early start of the campaign because they will need a long time to assess all the candidates and see how they operate under pressure. Many social conservative activists argue that Giuliani's lead in the polls will begin melting away as the year wears on and as conservatives scrutinize his liberal record on abortion, gun control, and gay rights.
"For very good reasons, the base will say 'no thanks' to Rudy," says the strategist. "Eventually there will be a reckoning."
He sees the start of that reckoning in the negative ripples among religious conservatives caused by recent news stories about the distant relationship between Giuliani and his son and about Giuliani's three marriages.

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If pragmatism prevails in the Republican primaries and caucuses next winter—a questionable proposition for a party that once dutifully lined up behind Bob Dole—then Rudy Giuliani will roll to the G.O.P. nomination.

Simply put, the former Mayor would flip to the Republican column several deep, dark blue states that the G.O.P. has barely bothered to contest in recent election, gobbling up territory that is pivotal to any Democrat’s hopes of corralling 270 electoral votes. And he could do this without ceding an inch of safe G.O.P. turf to the Democrats. Sure, they may loathe his social liberalism, but will Mississippians really hand their six electoral votes to Hillary Clinton over Rudy?

As it stands now, Republicans are in grave danger of losing the White House in 2008.

To win next year, Republicans need to nominate a map-changer—a candidate who can attract support in unlikely areas and overcome the significant built-in handicaps.

Enter Rudy. Say what you will about whether he truly deserves them, but his Sept. 11 tough-guy hero credentials position him perfectly to lead election-swinging Reagan Democrats back into the Republican fold.

That substantial numbers of conservative evangelical voters are even considering [Guiliani, MCCain or Gingrich] as presidential prospects is a sign of their political maturation and of their more pragmatic view of what can be expected from politics and politicians. It is also evidence that many of them are awakening to at least two other realities - (1) they are not electing a church deacon; and (2) government has limited power to rebuild a crumbling social construct.

While "character issues" can overlap with other concerns when considering for whom to vote, conservative evangelicals are beginning to see them as less important than who can meet the multiple challenges faced by the nation. Put it this way: if you are about to have major surgery and your only choice was a church-going doctor with a high mortality rate, or an agnostic with a high success record, which would it be? I'd choose the agnostic.

Conservative evangelicals have grown up. But they still can't stand Hillary Clinton, though she's only been married once and is a Methodist. Jimmy Carter, also once married, only lusted in his heart. It makes one nostalgic for the "good old days."

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Firemen douse Rudy’s image as 9/11 hero
Union bid to halt White House run

Sarah Baxter, New York
FIRE battalion chief Jim Riches brought up his son to be one of New York’s “bravest”, like him. The young Jim followed his father into the New York fire department and died at the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.
What followed turned his heartbroken father into a relentless opponent of Rudy Giuliani, then mayor of New York. With other families of 9/11 victims, Riches has vowed to torpedo Giuliani’s prospects of winning the White House by attacking his greatest source of strength, his reputation as a hero that day.
“We’re going to follow him around the country,” said Riches. “We want all of America to know he is not the man he says he is.”
Helped by the firefighters’ union, Riches and his friends are preparing to “swiftboat” Giuliani, borrowing the tactics of the Vietnam veterans, under the title Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, who pierced the Democratic nominee John Kerry’s seemingly armour-plated credentials as a decorated war hero during the 2004 presidential campaign.
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TimesOnline
So much baggage for this pesidential candidate that so many people say they don't really know.

...yesterday's St. Patrick's Day parade ...became an almost triumphant march along Fifth Ave. for Giuliani, who was greeted with cheers of "Go, Rudy!"

Outside of a handful of boos, most lobbed by protesters at 59th St. opposed to the parade's exclusion of openly gay marchers, it was as if Giuliani were leading another Yankees victory parade - only everyone was in green.

Giuliani also got the royal treatment from Edward Cardinal Egan, who stepped to the curb outside St. Patrick's Cathedral to greet the twice-divorced mayor.

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PJP said:
kind of like being raised a muslim......yeah.

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Just because Rudy may have been in a mosque once or twice would hardly make him "raised muslim". That's something for desperate people stuck with crappy candidates to try to exploit & exagerate. (hi G-man)

Officials at the Fire Department, which had former Gov. George Pataki marching behind its banner, said Giuliani, who's running for president largely on his post-9/11 performance, would have been welcome [to march with them].

"Once Italians voted Democratic," says John Salamone, executive director of the [National Italian American Foundation], a non-partisan umbrella group based in D.C. "In recent elections, they have tended to split along the lines of the national divide - about one third Democratic, one third Republican and one third independent. We're a very assimilated community."

Still, this is the first time Italian-Americans have had a national candidate to support. As Giuliani's candidacy has begun to take off, Salamone has been surprised by a growing grass-roots enthusiasm. "Every day I get calls and emails from across the country, from Republicans and Democrats. This isn't an endorsement, but I do believe it will translate into votes."

"They try this every time," says Salamone. "They even tried to paint Justice Samuel Alito as a guy who might be soft on organized crime, just because he's an Italian from New Jersey. You want to fire up and embolden the community, try using the Soprano card that way."

Dona De Sanctis, deputy executive director of the Order Sons of Italy in America, agrees. "Our people are like other Americans, concerned about the direction of the country," she says. "But one thing we carry with us here, even after 100 years in America, is the need to feel we are respected. If Rudy Giuliani is disrespected, it will galvanize Italian-Americans across the country. I can tell you that the Sons of Italy would be deeply upset."