RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events Who's to blame for higher gas prices?

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thedoctor said:
If the demand for gas is still going up despite the price hikes, is it really the oil companies' who are to blame for their profits. They have to make a profit in order to keep running.

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thedoctor said:
It's mainly the market setting the price.

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sweetmarlene said:
Yeah, it's $2.80 today. A friend of mine just spent $35 filling up her tank. Granted, she drives a Jeep, but still...

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Jim Jackson said:

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thedoctor said:
If the demand for gas is still going up despite the price hikes, is it really the oil companies' who are to blame for their profits. They have to make a profit in order to keep running.

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But do they need to make RECORD profits during this time in our nation's history? We've got a war going on in Iraq, probably another one upcoming in or over Iran. Do they need to make so much extra money?

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thedoctor said:

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Jim Jackson said:

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thedoctor said:
If the demand for gas is still going up despite the price hikes, is it really the oil companies' who are to blame for their profits. They have to make a profit in order to keep running.

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But do they need to make RECORD profits during this time in our nation's history? We've got a war going on in Iraq, probably another one upcoming in or over Iran. Do they need to make so much extra money?

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thedoctor said:
If they sell more every year, they're going to make more profits, period. Simple math.

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First Autoexpress reported the next Toyota Prius would be turbocharged, now the UK mag says the company is going after a Grail-like triple-digit mileage figure. According to a report, the next Prius will have a mileage target of 113 mpg, which is more than double what most Prius owners see from their current gas-electric hybrids. Toyota hopes to beat Mitsubishi to market with new, lithium-ion cells that are lighter, smaller, generate more power and last longer. Of course, with a plug-in hack even a current Prius could get 250 mpg or more, not that Toyota would consider that kind of action.
Prius Hits 113 mpg [Autoexpress (hat tip, Motorpulse)]]

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thedoctor said:


Talk to China and the folks in the SUV's about the rising costs of gasoline.

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Jim Jackson said:

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thedoctor said:


Talk to China and the folks in the SUV's about the rising costs of gasoline.

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Why talk to the folks in the SUVs? No one compelled them to purchase a machine with such poor fuel economy. Am I to feel sorry for them? No fucking way. If fuel costs are going to be an issue for you in the use of the vehicle you're purchasing, for crying out loud don't buy a damned SUV.

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You folks are gonna have to do like your parents (HEAVENS, NOT THAT!); dump the gas guzzler and buy a fuel efficient vehicle.

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the G-man said:
I agree with WBAM.

And Magicjay.

And Jim.

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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You folks are gonna have to do like your parents (HEAVENS, NOT THAT!); dump the gas guzzler and buy a fuel efficient vehicle.

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Done and done.

At the risk of sounding like a lib. I don't mid high gas prices, because it forces the consumer into more efficient vehicles and increases the demand for alternitive fuels.

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the G-man said:
I agree with WBAM.

And Magicjay.

And Jim.

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Jim Jackson said:
And your head didn't explode?

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magicjay38 said:
While we're bitching about energy prices, does anyone recall the Energy Bust? After the price jumps in the 70's we began reducing our consumtion and prices tumbled. All those folks that moved from the Midwest to Texas for jobs, moved back home. Check out Urban Cowboy at the video store sometime! Enron was not the first disaster to create see-through buildings in downtown Houston. People closed escrows on new houses elsewhere then abandoned their houses in the oil patch.

You've got market economics playing live on the corner at your local gas station. Hope you enjoy the show!

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With BP, Exxon-Mobil, and Shell reporting record profits, the Tax Foundation reminds us in its latest Fiscal Fact that the biggest beneficiaries of gasoline sales are federal and state governments, not the oil industry:

High gas prices and strong oil company earnings have generated a rash of new tax proposals in recent months.

Some lawmakers have called for new “windfall profits” taxes—similar to the one signed into federal law in 1980 by President Jimmy Carter—that would tax the profits of major oil companies at a rate of 50%.

Meanwhile, many commentators have voiced support for the idea of increasing gas taxes to keep the price of gasoline at post-Katrina highs, thereby reducing gas consumption.

However, often ignored in this debate is the fact that oil industry profits are highly cyclical, making them just as prone to “busts” as to “booms.”
Additionally, tax collections on the production and import of gasoline by state and federal governments are already near historic highs. In fact, in recent decades governments have collected far more revenue from gasoline taxes than the largest U.S. oil companies have collectively earned in domestic profits....

[F]ederal and state taxes on gasoline production and imports have been climbing steadily since the late 1970s and now total roughly $58.4 billion. Due in part to substantial hikes in the federal gasoline excise tax in 1983, 1990, and 1993, annual tax revenues have continued to grow. Since 1977, governments collected more than $1.34 trillion, after adjusting for inflation, in gasoline tax revenues—more than twice the amount of domestic profits earned by major U.S. oil companies during the same period:

GRAPH, showing annual government taxes on oil, -vs- private oil corporate profits

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Killconey said:

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magicjay38 said:
While we're bitching about energy prices, does anyone recall the Energy Bust? After the price jumps in the 70's we began reducing our consumtion and prices tumbled. All those folks that moved from the Midwest to Texas for jobs, moved back home. Check out Urban Cowboy at the video store sometime! Enron was not the first disaster to create see-through buildings in downtown Houston. People closed escrows on new houses elsewhere then abandoned their houses in the oil patch.

You've got market economics playing live on the corner at your local gas station. Hope you enjoy the show!

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Just because it sucked then, doesn't mean that it doesn't suck now. Gas prices are way to fucking high and they need to go back down again. Maybe consumerism or ethanol will sweep down and save us, but it still sucks for now and as long as life sucks, bitching will happen.

Before you ask, I'm 24 and remember absolutely nothing from the 70s.

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I meant no offense, Killcony. I know it sucks. In the earlier crisies we even had to wait in line to buy gas and that REALLY sucked. My point was that markets will prevail. Consumers will reduce their consumption and the price will fall. It won't happen overnight but that's the way market economics works. You guys, like we before you, will buy smaller cars. Then in 20 or 30 years you'll forget why you're driving a Prius and move up to some cruise ship sized vehicle and the whole process will repeat itself. The good news is I won't be around to say 'I told you so!'.

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Wonder Boy said:
http://taxprof.typepad.com

[LIST]With BP, Exxon-Mobil, and Shell reporting record profits, the Tax Foundation reminds us in its latest Fiscal Fact that the biggest beneficiaries of gasoline sales are federal and state governments, not the oil industry:

High gas prices and strong oil company earnings have generated a rash of new tax proposals in recent months.

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Oil Prices Settle Above $71 a Barrel
By BRAD FOSS, AP Business Writer

WASHINGTON - Oil prices settled at a new high above $71 a barrel Tuesday as supply threats around the world overshadowed a new report from OPEC forecasting weakening global demand.

There was no fresh catalyst for Tuesday's buying, but analysts said the market psychology would likely remain bullish until there is some resolution to a variety of geopolitical uncertainties, particularly the West's nuclear dispute with Iran and output disruptions in Nigeria.

Global Insight oil analyst Kevin Lindemer said the slowing consumption growth and swelling inventories of crude oil in the United States would typically help pull down prices, but "all of that is getting swamped right now by Iran and Nigeria."

Light, sweet crude for May delivery on the New York Mercantile Exchange rose as high as $71.60 a barrel, surpassing the previous intraday record of $70.85 set Aug. 30. Oil settled at $71.35, an increase of 95 cents from Monday's record closing price.

With gasoline prices averaging $2.79 a gallon, U.S. motorists are shelling out $212 million per day more than a year ago, and President Bush said Tuesday he was "concerned" about the impact this was having on American families and small businesses.

Many economists believe the impact of $70 oil on the country's financial engine will not be as drastic as it was last August in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The argument is that consumers have gotten accustomed to prices at today's levels because they have moved up gradually and that it will take a sharp and sustained leap in energy prices before there are any serious economic ramifications.

"We will feel real pain at the pump before this market tops out," said James Cordier, president of Liberty Trading in Tampa, Fla. Cordier predicted gasoline prices could rise as high as $3.50 a gallon in some parts of the country this summer.

So far, demand for gasoline continues to rise, albeit at a slower pace than a year ago, according to Energy Department data.

The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries on Tuesday revised its demand-growth forecast for 2006 to 1.42 million barrels a day, down from 1.46 million barrels per day in the previous report. The cartel estimates that global crude-oil demand will be slightly above 84.5 million barrels per day — about half a million barrels per day lower than the current Wall Street consensus.

OPEC expressed particular concern about the impact rising interest rates would have on consumer spending in the U.S., where gasoline demand grew at a slower rate in the first quarter and could "carry over into the second half of the year."

Oil prices are now 42 percent higher than last year. But with global crude oil production only barely keeping up with demand, leaving a slim margin for error if there is a prolonged supply interruption, experts say prices are likely to climb further.

Traders are anxious that U.S.-led efforts to stop Iran, OPEC's second-largest member, from pursuing a suspected nuclear weapons program could lead to a disruption in Persian Gulf supplies. On Tuesday, Russia maintained its opposition to sanctions against Iran, while President Bush said he would continue to focus on diplomacy but that "all options are on the table" to prevent Iran from developing atomic weapons.

In Nigeria, militant attacks have led Royal Dutch Shell PLC to shut large amounts of production. Platts estimates Nigeria's output fell by 220,000 barrels per day in March, compared with February.

Also underpinning high oil prices is booming demand in emerging economies such as China and India.

"The market sentiment now is much more nervous," said Tetsu Emori, chief commodities strategist at Mitsui Bussan Futures in Tokyo. "Things haven't changed so much, but as we approach the summer driving season we'll need more crude to make gasoline and we know also that U.S. gasoline production has its limitations because of the tight refining capacity."

Sen. Charles Schumer (news, bio, voting record), D-N.Y., implored the Federal Trade Commission on Tuesday to "rigorously monitor" the U.S. refining industry to make sure companies were producing as much gasoline as they could and "not manipulating the amount of product flowing to the market."

In London, Brent crude for June delivery at the ICE Futures exchange also hit an all-time high of $72.64 a barrel, before easing back to settle at $72.51, an increase of $1.05 and a record close.

Gasoline futures Tuesday rose 5.42 cents to close at $2.2239 a gallon while heating oil futures gained 2.79 cents to settle at $2.0508 a gallon. Natural gas futures rose 43.1 cents to settle at $8.008 per 1,000 cubic feet.

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_{AP Business Writer Jane Wardell in London contributed to this report.}

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Killconey said:

Just because it sucked then, doesn't mean that it doesn't suck now. Gas prices are way to fucking high and they need to go back down again. Maybe consumerism or ethanol will sweep down and save us, but it still sucks for now and as long as life sucks, bitching will happen.

Before you ask, I'm 24 and remember absolutely nothing from the 70s.

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Illegal Machine said:
It's said that the price increase is not related to terrorism or refinery shut downs, etc.

Its actually due to the new emission requirements. A lot of the additives that are currently used in gasoline are being replaced with ethanol, and the processes to create and transport ethanol are not developed.

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Oil Rises to a Record $75.35 on concern about Iran and Nigeria


April 21 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil rose to a record $75.35 a barrel in New York on concern that shipments from Iran and Nigeria will be disrupted as the U.S. increases output of gasoline for the summer driving season.

The dispute over Iran's nuclear program has intensified, increasing the chances of sanctions against the world's fourth- biggest oil producer. Rebel attacks in Nigeria have shut about 20 percent of output in Africa's biggest oil producer. Oil was pulled lower in early trading on speculation that refiners will increase output because of improved profit margins.




``Any kind of supply disruption will send us up toward $100,'' said Peter Schiff, chief executive officer of Darien, Connecticut-based brokerage Euro Pacific Capital, whose clients have about $400 million in accounts at the firm. ``Even without a hiccup we will see prices rise because of the supply-demand imbalances.''

Crude oil for June delivery rose $1.48, or 2 percent, to $75.17 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, the highest close since trading began in 1983. Futures touched $75.35 a barrel, an intraday record. The May contract, which expired yesterday, reached records the last three days. Prices are 39 percent higher than a year ago.

``The suppliers of the world are having great difficulty keeping up with demand,'' Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said at a conference in Washington. ``This is a tax, if you will, on economic activity. This is a horrific burden on American families.''

U.S. stocks declined as oil prices climbed this afternoon. The jump in energy prices may bolster inflation, increasing the likelihood that the Federal Reserve Bank will boost its benchmark interest rate.

``If crude oil remains at this level or moves higher the moderate slowing of the economy could'' intensify, said Jason Schenker, an economist at Wachovia Corp. in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Inflation Adjusted Prices

Oil prices more than doubled in 1979 after a revolution in Iran slashed the nation's oil exports. By February 1981 U.S. refiners were paying an average $39 a barrel for imported oil, according to Energy Department figures, or $86.88 in 2006 dollars.

``This is similar to the 1970s when there was a permanent readjustment in oil prices,'' Schiff said.

Iran has defied the United Nations by enriching enough uranium to fuel a nuclear reactor. Russia yesterday rejected a call from the U.S. to halt construction of a nuclear plant in Iran to put pressure on the Persian Gulf country to stop its nuclear enrichment program. The plant should be completed by the end of this year.

Can't Halt Program

``The U.S. is incapable of doing anything to stop Iran's nuclear program,'' said Mordechai Abir, director of energy research at Burnham Securities Inc. in New York. ``The U.S. is not going to attack Iran so there is no reason for the Iranians to use their oil weapon. This crisis is being driven by words and has added $10 to $15 to the cost of oil.''

Concern that Iran might reduce shipments if sanctions are imposed has helped bolster prices 23 percent this year.

Oil prices would soar to $100 a barrel if the U.S. attacks Iran in a dispute over the country's nuclear program, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said yesterday.

``An invasion of Iran would end what little stability exists in the Middle East,'' Chavez told reporters in Brazil in remarks broadcast by the state television channel. ``The price of oil could reach $100.''

Brent crude oil for June settlement rose $1.39, or 1.9 percent, to $74.57 a barrel on the London-based ICE Futures exchange, the highest close since the contract began trading in 1988. Futures touched $74.79 a barrel, an intraday record.

Nigerian Oil

The Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta rejected a plan announced by the Nigerian government to increase development in the Niger River delta. The group threatened new attacks on oil companies this week. About 500,000 barrels a day of Nigeria's output remains shut, Oil Minister Edmund Daukoru said on April 18.

``The Nigerian government doesn't have the ability to control the region and will have to give the rebels what they want if the oil is to come back,'' Abir said. ``It doesn't look like we will be seeing this highly sought-after oil anytime soon.''

Nigerian oil is prized by refiners because of the amount of gasoline it yields.

Prices have also surged on speculation that U.S. gasoline stockpiles will be insufficient when consumption accelerates in the summer months. Gasoline stockpiles plunged 5.4 million barrels last week, the seventh-straight weekly decline, the Energy Department reported on April 19.

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the G-man said:
Yes, to which I replied by asking if that doesn't then mean you're justifying war for oil.

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The federal gas tax was first imposed in 1932. It was only 1 cent per gallon, and it was supposed to be temporary. It wasn't. From 1959 to 1981 it stayed at 4 cents a gallon. But in 1982 the federal government got hot for mass transit. Since then the federal gas tax has risen from 4 cents a gallon to 18.4 cents, or 360 percent, the Tax Foundation has noted.

According to the Energy Information Agency, almost a quarter of the price of a gallon of gas goes to taxes. Refining costs and oil company profits combined make up less than 20 percent. (Those percentages will be slightly smaller now, with prices having risen so fast in the past month.)

But the EIA does not include some local taxes in that count. The Tax Foundation and the American Petroleum Institute found last fall that taxes accounted for 45.9 cents of the cost of each gallon of gas. That's a United States average, the total differs state to state. It ranged from 26.4 cents in Alaska to 60 cents in California.

Just three years ago, Congress was considering raising the federal gasoline tax from 18.4 cents a gallon to 24.4 cents. Two years ago, Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska, proposed raising the gas tax by 5.45 cents a gallon to 23.85 cents. He wanted more money for pork. Now, of course, such a proposal would be political suicide.

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PJP said:
Our piece of shit representatives in Washington DC are trying to find solutions to the high gas prices. Both Republicans and Democrats are full of shit and assholes.

I bet we could come up with some solutions that will be effective and more productive without all the beauracratic bullshit. Please try to keep this non partisan since both parties are equally to blame.

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Matter-eater Man said:
Considering that Democrats are the miniority party how are they equally to blame? (asking in a non partisan way )

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britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
I hate to burst your bubble g-man but taxes dont really have alot to do with the price of gas. i live on the border of ohio/ky, and close to indiana, gas costs roughly the same withing 2 or 3 cents, ohios tax is 24 cents p gallaon,ky 16, indiana 18, why are pump prices the same? not taxes. the oil companies have found the ceiling they can charge and do, if it wasnt gouging i could get gas 8 cents cheaper a gallon in ky.

if you took away the federal tax thye would still find the ceiling people were willing to pay and charge that.

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