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You know, instead of calling people "ignoramusus" perhaps you can explain why you (or rather the Catholic church) think evolution can't be part of intelligent design.
From Washington Times interview with DeLay:
Mr. Hurt: Have you ever crossed the line of ethical behavior in terms of dealing with lobbyists, your use of government authority or with fundraising?
Mr. DeLay: Ever is a very strong word.
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the G-man said:
I think a person can be outraged both by the church's complicity in the molestation cases AND the cynical attempts by politicians such as the Kerry's to exploit their faith while at the same time refusing to abscribe to many of its teachings.
I suppose Bush Jr hasn't exploited his faith... 
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
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Pariah said:
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UnrestrainedID
Hypocrite.
Want more? Here. Where do you stand on Iraq, o' Super-Catholic?
*long-winded article*
If you knew anything about Catholics, you'd know that we recognize a seperation of jurisdiction between the pope's opinions on world events and his preaching of Catholic doctrine. I have absolutely no idea where you get the idea that we're not allowed to disagree with him on issues regarding politics.
Does this mean you can use condoms and do abortion and still be a good Catholic?
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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Quote:
Pariah said:
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Paul Mandral said:
Why the hell should she have given an explanation on how she reasons evolution?
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Hell forget following science or the news, Follow HISTORY. For hundreds of years, the Catholics wouldn't accept the TRUTH that the Earth revolved around the sun, and only just recently apologized for that. Before Galileo, people believed the earth was the center of the universe and the sun revolved around the earth. This theory is known as the Ptolemaic theory. It is named after the Roman astronomer Ptolemy. The Greek philosopher Aristotle and the Roman Catholic Church also believed the sun revolved around the earth.
In 1543, Nicolaus Copernicus published a new theory stating the earth revolves around the sun. This is known as the Copernican theory. This theory was considered a serious challenge to the Ptolemaic theory and the Roman Catholic Church.
So just based on that, I wouldn't hold the Roman church as the infallible authority you seem to think they are.
I see. So the Vatican's history properly represents them now? If you haven't noticed, the institution's long since refined itself from your examples of the past that pathetically try to divulge fallecy in the present. Those certain happenings don't resemble the current situations at hand considering the Vatican uses science just as much as evolutionists--And by the by, Christian scientists, some who follow the Vatican, have quite successfully disproved much of the evolutionist crutches with that very science, which, again, is used by said evolutionists.
Aha! So the fact that the Roman Catholic Church has done great errors concerning science doesn't have anything to do with the credibility of the Roman Catholic Church today, but if a darwinistic scientist had done an imsy-wimsy bit of error, that proves that evolution is wrong!
Pariah, discussing with you is like talking to any dogmatic followers a certain belief system, may it be a certain religion, Objectivism or Marxism. 
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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Trolling obviously isn't your forte' Cap.
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Aha! So the fact that the Roman Catholic Church has done great errors concerning science doesn't have anything to do with the credibility of the Roman Catholic Church today, but if a darwinistic scientist had done an imsy-wimsy bit of error, that proves that evolution is wrong!
As I already said, the circumstances of the two disagreements differ. Before, the Church wasn't open to using science to prove its convictions. Now it is and is accepting of scientific discovery. It has qualms with evolution not only because of dogmatic principles, but also because of further scientific discovery that speaks against the existence of evolution. The most relevent of those discoveries being the actual lack of legitimate ones made by evolutionists. Saying that the Vatican is narrow-minded using a centuries old stereotype to dismiss findings by Christian scientists is simply a tired tactic, which you and Whomod should fuck off with.
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Quote:
Paul Mandral said:
You know, instead of calling people "ignoramusus" perhaps you can explain why you (or rather the Catholic church) think evolution can't be part of intelligent design.
I don't believe I ever said can't. I did, however, incline that there was nothing to prove its existence. And the Church recognizes this fact--Or recognized I should say, and helped develop Creationism as a curriculum, which spoke against the so called findings of evolutionists. With the dating problems, as displayed with the fossils unearthed by evolutionists--Not to mention the lack of concrete proof that adheres to any of the fossils being found as real transitions--The hypothesis developed by evolutionists isn't compatible with the timeframes as set by the Bible or the overall message of (the magic word) creation. Quite simply, I open myself up to all the possibilities, with evolution being one of them, but there is simply nothing to conclude its existence.
I made an entire thread about this here.
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When did I troll? Have I used foul language against you?  Even if Christian scientists can refute evolution, can they refute geology, which also prove creationism to be wrong (and indirectly support the theory of evolution)? If it makes you feel any better: I agree that the Joker didn't rape Barbara Gordon. He "just" fired a gun at her and took those awful photos.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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BTW, if anyone missunderstood me: I didn't say that all followers of a certain religion, Objectivism or Marxism is dogmatic. However, it goes over the top when you think that your philosophy or religion is not only a guide, but also the one and only source to The Absolute Truth.
Who is Whomod?
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
When did I troll? Have I used foul language against you?
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If it makes you feel any better: I agree that the Joker didn't rape Barbara Gordon. He "just" fired a gun at her and took those awful photos.
You just answered your own question.
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Even if Christian scientists can refute evolution, can they refute geology, which also prove creationism to be wrong (and indirectly support the theory of evolution)?
Can? Yeah, you know nothing about the subject. "Geology" hasn't proven anything for Evolutionists, and you'd know this if you simply read my comments on the subject. I mean, considering you posted in the thread where I made the report. Read before you comment.
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BTW, if anyone missunderstood me: I didn't say that all followers of a certain religion, Objectivism or Marxism is dogmatic. However, it goes over the top when you think that your philosophy or religion is not only a guide, but also the one and only source to The Absolute Truth.
If we're going off of that standard: You're no better considering you're putting everything you've got into evolution--A theory that hasn't even been proven, nor is it any closer to actually being proven. Science and religion aren't rivals, they're two terms that signify a form of discovery, but people like you who wish to alienate anyone who believes in God have changed its meaning and polarized society. "Science" isn't the scientist's version of religion where you put all of your faith into it just to hold up your middle finger at the Church; it's something used to understand existence better. So when you put all of your faith into something that's supposed to be impartial of all opinions, you're the one being falletical.
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Who is Whomod?
Your lover.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
If we're going off of that standard: You're no better considering you're putting everything you've got into evolution--A theory that hasn't even been proven, nor is it any closer to actually being proven.
Pariah, do you even understand what the word "theory" is in science?
Let me help you, it isn't a wild hunch or guess.
Creation Science is an Oxymoron
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Evolution is based on assumptions that aren't substantiated....Meaning, it's theory. Linking me to a report that tries to spin the definition innit' gonna do you any good, for whatever kind of good you're trying to do.
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Pariah said:
Evolution is based on assumptions that aren't substantiated....Meaning, it's theory. Linking me to a report that tries to spin the definition innit' gonna do you any good, for whatever kind of good you're trying to do.
Are you also worried about the fact that airplanes are designed using "theories of aerodynamics."
But I digress....
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Creationism is not a theory, nor even a hypothesis, because it was not arrived at by the scientific method. Creationism starts out with the answer - that God created everything. Then it works backward to try to find pieces of "evidence" to support the conclusion that has already been made. It is the opposite of science.
Evolution is a scientific theory. It should be taught as such. And in most schools it is. The misinformation seems to be in determining exactly what a scientific theory is and how it differs from a scientific law or hypothesis, or a religion.
A scientific law is like the law of gravity or Newton’s laws of motion. They are simple, direct, truthful statements that define a very specific observation. Laws are simply statements that everyone agrees to be true, so that they can move on.
Hypotheses are deductions based on observations and what is known to be true at the time. They are educated guesses, not haphazard or wild guesses.
A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.
In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology.
The biggest difference between a law and a theory is that a theory is much more complex and dynamic. A law governs a single action, whereas a theory explains a whole series of related phenomena.
Compare a slingshot to an automobile. A scientific law is analogous to a slingshot. A slingshot has but one moving part - the rubber band. If you put a rock in it and draw it back, the rock will fly out at a predictable speed, depending upon the distance the band is drawn back.
An automobile, on the other hand, has many moving parts, all working in unison to perform the chore of transporting someone from one point to another point. An automobile is a complex piece of machinery. Sometimes, improvements are made to one or more component parts. But the function of the automobile as a whole remains unchanged.
What I find amazing about all this is that a person can reject fossil, and geological evidence and argue vehemently and find more logical the story that says 6000 years ago, a man, a woman and a talking snake existed.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
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Creationism is not a theory, nor even a hypothesis, because it was not arrived at by the scientific method. Creationism starts out with the answer - that God created everything. Then it works backward to try to find pieces of "evidence" to support the conclusion that has already been made. It is the opposite of science.
Evolution is a scientific theory. It should be taught as such. And in most schools it is. The misinformation seems to be in determining exactly what a scientific theory is and how it differs from a scientific law or hypothesis, or a religion.
What I find funniest about this statement is that the highlighted part isn't included at the end of the second paragraph, when really it should be. Scientists made assumptions that they teach in the science-books, and then they go digging for their missing links. News flash: They haven't found any real or even confirmed transitions, yet they still preach the existence of evolution anyway. And while we're on that subject, it would be nice if his Gayness of Los Angeles Whomod would post these geological studies that "prove" the existence of evolution--Or, here's, a novel idea, refute my post on the subject, which keeps going ignored.
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unrestrained id said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
If we're going off of that standard: You're no better considering you're putting everything you've got into evolution--A theory that hasn't even been proven, nor is it any closer to actually being proven.
Pariah, do you even understand what the word "theory" is in science?
Let me help you, it isn't a wild hunch or guess.
Creation Science is an Oxymoron
Wich is why I've alwayse refered to evolution as an unprovable theory. It technically doesn't even fit the true deffinition of a scientific theory in that it is neither testable not falsifiable. Keep in mind that what I'm refering to is Macro evolution rather than micro wich is not only testable but observable. I make that distiction knowing that it's a very popular svengali routine to interchange the two types of evolution when attempting to make some points and avoid others.
According to the first article wich unrestrained Alt was hoping to "shame" pariah with it defines a scientific theory as follows.
# Is supported by empirical evidence.
# Is testable and falsifiable.
# Can be used to make predictions.
While the first is debatable (a species has never been observed to give bith to a seperate species). The second and third absolutely do not aply to macro evolution.
Testable? well in order to test it you would have to be able to recreate the scenario in wich it's claimed to have happened, but since it's claimed to have required billions of years to have occured then you'd have to find a very pacient scientist to test that one, but then none of us would be arround when he finally drew his conclusion. Can be used to make predictions? Well in order to prove that it meets this qualification a prediction must be made and it must come to pass. Prey tell what new specias was born let alone predicted before hand?
So I ask you, do YOU know what a scientific theory really is?
In teh second article this handsom devil  comes up with a much more superficial definition of what constitutes a scientific theory.
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A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers.
This bi product of evolutionary advancement would have us believe that a scientific theory is simply a question of numbers. After all if a million scientists say it it must be true, because we all know that scientist have no biases.... they're a sort of intelectual supermen bred to be smarter than the populace as a whole. And if history has taught us anything it's that the scientists are never wrong..
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In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology.
See? They should have explained this to copernicus before he went and mucked everthing up.
On a seperate note, this question is for Cap. Sweden. How exactly does geology disprove the possibility that creation came about by intelegent design? I seemed to have mssed that one.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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On a seperate note, this question is for Cap. Sweden. How exactly does geology disprove the possibility that creation came about by intelegent design? I seemed to have mssed that one.
The Bible - which the Creationistic theory is based on - says the world was created in six days.
Geology proves that the world has evolved for millions of years and therefor refutes Creationism. Also, geology and biology combined proves evolution by the existence of fossiles of exctincted animals. You aren't going to tell me that humans and dinosaurs lived together, as in The Flintstones?
Last edited by Captain Sweden; 2005-04-17 6:12 PM.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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If it makes you feel any better: I agree that the Joker didn't rape Barbara Gordon. He "just" fired a gun at her and took those awful photos.
You just answered your own question.You don't have any sense of humour, right? I was just trying to light things up but you choosed to get offended by it. 
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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Captain Sweden said:
Geology proves that the world has evolved for millions of years and therefor refutes Creationism.
You did know that it is scientiffically impossible to prove that anything took a specific time period to happen if that time period exceeds the amount of time the experiment takes.... You did know that, right?
Trust me, the day that teh Bible is scientiffically PROVEN to be false they will interupt your usually schedualed program to announce it and it will be the top story on every netowrk for at least a month.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
On a seperate note, this question is for Cap. Sweden. How exactly does geology disprove the possibility that creation came about by intelegent design? I seemed to have mssed that one.
The Bible - which the Creationistic theory is based on - says the world was created in six days.
Geology proves that the world has evolved for millions of years and therefor refutes Creationism. Also, geology and biology combined proves evolution by the existence of fossiles of exctincted animals. You aren't going to tell me that humans and dinosaurs lived together, as in The Flintstones?
Job seems to have seen them. Check it out - 38 or 39, one of the last chapters in the book of Job. Also, while many more fundamentalistic Christians may throw down with me over this, I think the poetic language of the creation narrative in Genesis 1 is not prohibitive of very long 'days' in which different things could have been created. Kinda odd nowadays, isn't it, that the word day could be used from day to day to indicate something other than a literal twenty-four hour day in this day and age?
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Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Geology proves that the world has evolved for millions of years and therefor refutes Creationism. Also, geology and biology combined proves evolution by the existence of fossiles of exctincted animals. You aren't going to tell me that humans and dinosaurs lived together, as in The Flintstones?
Actually, no, it doesn't. The Geological dating system is a design based on assumption. If a person gets ahold of a fossil, and their machine dates it back to however long it does, it means the machine is calibrated to determine its date based on the strata's era as inputed by the scientist. Not only is the machine programmed to assume the era, but so is the scientist, and because both machine and hypothesis were created by said scientist, it's all biased opinion.
Also, discovery of extinct animals doesn't prove the existence of evolution, the theory rests solely on structural transistions. Those transistions haven't been discovered.
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Captain Sammitch said:
Job seems to have seen them. Check it out - 38 or 39, one of the last chapters in the book of Job.
Thanks for bringing this up, I kept forgetting. There are many isolated places in the Bible that are correlative with the Creationist view based on documented sightings of certian animals not publically discovered to have existed til the 1800s.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Geology proves that the world has evolved for millions of years and therefor refutes Creationism.
You did know that it is scientiffically impossible to prove that anything took a specific time period to happen if that time period exceeds the amount of time the experiment takes.... You did know that, right?
Trust me, the day that teh Bible is scientiffically PROVEN to be false they will interupt your usually schedualed program to announce it and it will be the top story on every netowrk for at least a month.
Trust me, the day when the exact words of the Bible is scientifically proven, I shall be one of King George Walker Bush Jr's holy crusaders.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
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-Prometheus
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
On a seperate note, this question is for Cap. Sweden. How exactly does geology disprove the possibility that creation came about by intelegent design? I seemed to have mssed that one.
The Bible - which the Creationistic theory is based on - says the world was created in six days.
Geology proves that the world has evolved for millions of years and therefor refutes Creationism. Also, geology and biology combined proves evolution by the existence of fossiles of exctincted animals. You aren't going to tell me that humans and dinosaurs lived together, as in The Flintstones?
Job seems to have seen them. Check it out - 38 or 39, one of the last chapters in the book of Job. Also, while many more fundamentalistic Christians may throw down with me over this, I think the poetic language of the creation narrative in Genesis 1 is not prohibitive of very long 'days' in which different things could have been created. Kinda odd nowadays, isn't it, that the word day could be used from day to day to indicate something other than a literal twenty-four hour day in this day and age?
Job saw them. OK, I suppose dragons existed as well? But I digress.
I agree that Bible can be interpreted in a poetic manner. It's when people thinks that every word is correct I raise an eye-brow.
Last edited by Captain Sweden; 2005-04-18 1:12 PM.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
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"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
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Pariah said:
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Creationism is not a theory, nor even a hypothesis, because it was not arrived at by the scientific method. Creationism starts out with the answer - that God created everything. Then it works backward to try to find pieces of "evidence" to support the conclusion that has already been made. It is the opposite of science.
Evolution is a scientific theory. It should be taught as such. And in most schools it is. The misinformation seems to be in determining exactly what a scientific theory is and how it differs from a scientific law or hypothesis, or a religion.
What I find funniest about this statement is that the highlighted part isn't included at the end of the second paragraph, when really it should be. Scientists made assumptions that they teach in the science-books, and then they go digging for their missing links. News flash: They haven't found any real or even confirmed transitions, yet they still preach the existence of evolution anyway. And while we're on that subject, it would be nice if his Gayness of Los Angeles Whomod would post these geological studies that "prove" the existence of evolution--Or, here's, a novel idea, refute my post on the subject, which keeps going ignored.
OK, this proves that you know second to nothing about the research by Charles Darwin. Evidently, you haven't heard or read about his travels to the Galapagos islands, where he discovered that the birds there had evolved from birds from other places, but had evolved to fit better in the new environment. Other scientists have made similar discoveries.
I recommend you to read the works by Francis Bacon, John Locke and/or John Stuart Mill, so you would know what emperic research is about. Rationalism is a good thing, I give you that, but it's not enough.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
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You are so stupid. He didn't discover or prove that the finches evolved. He observed that some had narrower beaks than others. This is what he based his hypothesis on, and more to point, I reiterate, that said basis has never been substantiated.
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Never confuse adaptation with evolution. They are highly different things.
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.......I didn't. Catholics believe in adaptation.
Edit: Oh. I see what you mean. Cap's statment inclined the discovery of subtle macro-mutation through those finches, I was merely saying it didn't prove that segment of Darwinistic theory. Adaptation perhaps, but as you say, they're two different things.
Last edited by Pariah; 2005-04-18 7:16 PM.
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Captain Sweden said:
Trust me, the day when the exact words of the Bible is scientifically proven, I shall be one of King George Walker Bush Jr's holy crusaders.
I see what you're doing you're cleverly turning my own argument against me.... here's the problem. I didn't claim that teh Bible has been scientiffically prove (it has had portions verified by science and archeology) You on teh other hand DID claim that it had been disproven. So in that case the argument only works in one direction.
Oh and just to nitpick, there is no such person named George Walker Bish Jr. At least not in American politics.
Last edited by wannabuyamonkey; 2005-04-18 7:37 PM.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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Captain Sweden said:
Job saw them. OK, I suppose dragons existed as well? But I digress.
Yes.... you do.
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I agree that Bible can be interpreted in a poetic manner. It's when people thinks that every word is correct I raise an eye-brow.
Then raise away, because I do believe it's correct. i also believe that in order to understand teh Scriptures you have to understand the basics of human literature and know that some writings are intended as poetry and some are intended as history and the Bible is no different.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
Keep in mind that what I'm refering to is Macro evolution rather than micro wich is not only testable but observable. I make that distiction knowing that it's a very popular svengali routine to interchange the two types of evolution when attempting to make some points and avoid others.
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
OK, this proves that you know second to nothing about the research by Charles Darwin. Evidently, you haven't heard or read about his travels to the Galapagos islands, where he discovered that the birds there had evolved from birds from other places, but had evolved to fit better in the new environment. Other scientists have made similar discoveries.
I recommend you to read the works by Francis Bacon, John Locke and/or John Stuart Mill, so you would know what emperic research is about. Rationalism is a good thing, I give you that, but it's not enough.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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Quote:
Pariah said:
.......I didn't. Catholics believe in adaptation.
Edit: Oh. I see what you mean. Cap's statment inclined the discovery of subtle macro-mutation through those finches, I was merely saying it didn't prove that segment of Darwinistic theory. Adaptation perhaps, but as you say, they're two different things.
Right, I was actually supporting you there. Quick to anger, are we?
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*shrug* So I'm a bit defensive.
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Actually, I find you offensive. But we can agree to disagree.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
Trust me, the day when the exact words of the Bible is scientifically proven, I shall be one of King George Walker Bush Jr's holy crusaders.
I see what you're doing you're cleverly turning my own argument against me.... here's the problem. I didn't claim that teh Bible has been scientiffically prove (it has had portions verified by science and archeology) You on teh other hand DID claim that it had been disproven. So in that case the argument only works in one direction.
I didn't say that all parts of the Bible was wrong, at least the historical parts. I think there have been a great flood, but it was much, much more limited than you might think, probably in line with the floodings around Eufrat and Tigris. But Genesis is certainly a part which should only be interpreted as a poetic tale.
Quote:
Oh and just to nitpick, there is no such person named George Walker Bish Jr. At least not in American politics.
So you too think that John Kerry won the election? 
Sorry about the Junior part, it's a private joke of mine, since I think Bush Jr is a less talented president than his father and deserves less respect than him. (There are parts of Bush Jr's politics I approve of, like his Pathway to Peace for the Middle East.)
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
Rack MisterJLA!
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Quote:
Fused said:
read teh bible
Sorry, but I'm currently reading Lord of the Ring, and I plan to re-read all my Frank Miller comics.
But you could read Richard Dawkins', Stephen Jay Gould's, and Robert Ornstein's books. 
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
Rack MisterJLA!
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Quote:
Kaz said:
Actually, I find you offensive. But we can agree to disagree.
You got that right. 
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
Rack MisterJLA!
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Keep in mind that what I'm refering to is Macro evolution rather than micro wich is not only testable but observable. I make that distiction knowing that it's a very popular svengali routine to interchange the two types of evolution when attempting to make some points and avoid others.
Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
OK, this proves that you know second to nothing about the research by Charles Darwin. Evidently, you haven't heard or read about his travels to the Galapagos islands, where he discovered that the birds there had evolved from birds from other places, but had evolved to fit better in the new environment. Other scientists have made similar discoveries.
I recommend you to read the works by Francis Bacon, John Locke and/or John Stuart Mill, so you would know what emperic research is about. Rationalism is a good thing, I give you that, but it's not enough.
What have those two posts in common? I replied to Pariah, not to you.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah."
-Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents."
-Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise."
-Prometheus
Rack MisterJLA!
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So Job interacted with dinousaurs and Eve conversed with talking snakes. And a biblical "day" can be whatever one wants it to be. gotcha. I fear for this country and our continued ability to compete scientifically, I really do. Carbon dating is suspect, fossil evidence is suspect but the talking snake has to be taken at face value. Let's get back to Captain Sammitch's point of the days not being literal 24 hr periods. Plant life, including fruit trees and seed bearing plants, were created on the 3rd day. Sun and stars were created on the 4th day Insects were created on the 6th day. Plant life needs the sun's special light for photosynthesis or they die. So 1 day after the plants were created could not be years, else the plants would die. It must be more like 24 hours. Fruit trees (also many seed bearing plants) need to be pollinated by insects. So the 3 days between these plants being created and Insects being created can't be the length of time (3000 years or 300 million years) claimed by old earthers.
From Washington Times interview with DeLay:
Mr. Hurt: Have you ever crossed the line of ethical behavior in terms of dealing with lobbyists, your use of government authority or with fundraising?
Mr. DeLay: Ever is a very strong word.
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Quote:
Captain Sweden said:
I didn't say that all parts of the Bible was wrong, at least the historical parts. I think there have been a great flood, but it was much, much more limited than you might think, probably in line with the floodings around Eufrat and Tigris. But Genesis is certainly a part which should only be interpreted as a poetic tale.
Not according to that geology you reference so much. World topography evolution over the past 10,000 years has shown evidence of a world-wide flood.
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