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Quote:
klinton said:
I think they should have papal elections more often...
No problem, the guy's 78!
Same time next week boys and girls?
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I think the average lifespan of a pope is six years. So it will happen soon enough.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Say what you want about Fox News, but they called this one. They said that mainstream media would use the new Pope's youth in Hitler's Nazi Germany to attack him as well as the issue of condom use and ignore his popularity with European Jewish leaders and 20 year service and close friendship with Pope John Paul II. It was also pointed out how opponents would politicize the papalcy(sp?) with terms like conservative and so forth without regard to the fact that it's a religious position where traditionalist is a better description than conservative.
Benedict is going to have a helluva time. He's following the most popular Pope ever. He's instantly targeted by those who want to criticize the Catholic church. People don't take into account his many years of service working closely with JP II. At best he's an interim Pope to put some bumper room between Pope John and whoever is to lead the church into the next big era. I kinda feel sorry for the guy.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Ironically, however, until he died, at lot of the same criticism now being directed at Pope Benedict, vis a vis his "conservative views," was being directed at Pope John Paul II.
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Yeah. Fucking crazy. The guy who reached out to Jewish leadership, apologized for the Catholic church's inactions during the Holocaust, and who did more to try and unite the world in peace, love, and understanding.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
It was also pointed out how opponents would politicize the papalcy(sp?) with terms like conservative and so forth without regard to the fact that it's a religious position where traditionalist is a better description than conservative.
One of the headlines at MSN.com yesterday was "new pope is a conservative".
No fucking shit? I thought this one was going to be a liberal.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
Yeah. Fucking crazy. The guy who <snip> did more to try and unite the world in peace, love, and understanding.
You make him sound like he was in the Beatles.
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Quote:
rex said:
I think the average lifespan of a pope is six years. So it will happen soon enough.
The guy's a transitional pope.
He's old (78) and was a confidant of JP II.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
thedoctor said:
Yeah. Fucking crazy. The guy who <snip> did more to try and unite the world in peace, love, and understanding.
You make him sound like he was in the Beatles.
He was until John got jealous of the hat and the fact that he did things to promote peace instead of just lying in the bed all day. Then they kicked him out of the band.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Being unhappy, or even outraged, by the new Pope's stand on the issues is one thing
Holding him accountable for actions he took at the age of fourteen under a dictatorship is quite another.
Bull shit!
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This is kinda funny to me. I disagree with this new Pope on so many issues. But then again I dissagree witht eh Catholic church on alot of issues. So I'm not all that uspet of surprised that the Catholic Church elected someone with whom I dissagree. Yet there's a couple (acctually probobly just one) people (person) who must have expected the new Pope to be a Unitarian. So much that so much that it's unforgivable that he was an HJ as a KID dispite the fact that he deserted the Nazi army LONG BEFORE anyone knew about the genocide ('ll compare this to Robert Byrd in my own mind and save that discussion on hypocracy for another day.) and you're so angry about a religious group choosing a leader that's instep with thier classical beliefs that even you're alt that's suposed to pretend to tow the Presidential line is spewing forth with hate aimed from the left.
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Quote:
unrestrained id said:
On violence towards gays:
You twisted fuck!
Is this for real? Can you provide a context for this quote? Holy fuck...Although it probably shouldn't, that shocks the shit out of me.
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
unrestrained id said:
On violence towards gays:
You twisted fuck!
Is this for real? Can you provide a context for this quote? Holy fuck...Although it probably shouldn't, that shocks the shit out of me.
What I see clear from what little is offered as far as context, is that he refers to violence against gays as irrational. C'mon folks, tis is what you do when you focus on teh sensational. You force people like me who are vvery critical of teh Papacy to defend the Pope.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
What I see clear from what little is offered as far as context, is that he refers to violence against gays as irrational. C'mon folks, tis is what you do when you focus on teh sensational. You force people like me who are vvery critical of teh Papacy to defend the Pope.
What I see clear is a cleverly worded 'go to it boys' justifaction for hate crimes.
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
What I see clear from what little is offered as far as context, is that he refers to violence against gays as irrational. C'mon folks, tis is what you do when you focus on teh sensational. You force people like me who are vvery critical of teh Papacy to defend the Pope.
What I see clear is a cleverly worded 'go to it boys' justifaction for hate crimes.
I'm not ruling that out, but the evidence is lacking.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
I'm not ruling that out, but the evidence is lacking.
Which is why I want to see the quote in context.
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
I'm not ruling that out, but the evidence is lacking.
Which is why I want to see the quote in context.
Wich is why you're request will probobly go unanswered. It seems if there was anything that damning (wich would agree that if true it would be) the alts would have lead with it and posted more evidence than the debatle amount they did.
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The new pope doesn't like gays.
No shock here.
Is he saying that we shouldn't be surprised when deviant behavior brings out violent, irrational acts in others? I don't know. I would hope he is, at least, not condoning any of this "irrational violence" against others. To do so would be unChristian.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Wich is why you're request will probobly go unanswered. It seems if there was anything that damning (wich would agree that if true it would be) the alts would have lead with it and posted more evidence than the debatle amount they did.
Which is why I think I'm going to have to do some research on this guy. I need an idea for a piece for final crit...this might just be it. If I could only tell you how much this board alone has helped my classes...I owe at least three projects (maybe more, but I can distinctly remember three) to ideas spawned in here.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Being unhappy, or even outraged, by the new Pope's stand on the issues is one thing
Holding him accountable for actions he took at the age of fourteen under a dictatorship is quite another.
Second!
Quote:
Most liberals would be outraged if, for example, we attacked the Pope for being a former member of the communist party, even though the communists killed as many, or more, than the Nazis.
around 24 million of their own contrymen dead more or less directly because of the communist regime!
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To be fair, it would depend on where abouts you were a Commie.
You can have commie beliefs and not be part of a murserous bunch of buggers like Stalin's lot.
Where as being a Nazi is being a Nazi.
But I wouldn't say Ratzinger was ever really a Nazi.
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What are we arguing about???
That the new leader of the Babylonian Mystery Religion guarded a BMW plant full of Dachau slaves??
shit, that's like being mad that the Wicked Witch of the West was mean to Munchkins in her youth.
Does this also mean that the popemobile will now be made by BMW?
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Quote:
Steve T said:
Quote:
klinton said:
I think they should have papal elections more often...
No problem, the guy's 78!
Same time next week boys and girls?
Benedict XVI says he chose the name "Benedict" because Benedict XV had one of the shortest papacies of the 20th Century. Those close to him say B. XVI realizes that his papacy will not be a lengthy one.
Read yesterday where his brother hoped he would be spared the burden of having to be Pope this late in life.
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One of the new pope's first priorities should be to order that all molesting priests be turned over to law enforcement agencies. He should also order that the privacy of the confessional does not apply in these cases. Molesters do not deserve such protection. Those who protect molesters should also be prosecuted for conspiracy.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
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I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
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I think that apart from what the sanctity of the confessional means to Catholics themselves, it is more beneficial to preserve it than have it broken for a small number of cases.
A lot of good is doen by people seeking confidential advice from their priest.
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I'll condemn the new pope by his actions as pope, not by his actions prior to papacy. The office will transform the man.
In the meantime, everytime I see his name I have a craving for eggs.
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Quote:
unrestrained id said:
One of the new pope's first priorities should be to order that all molesting priests be turned over to law enforcement agencies. He should also order that the privacy of the confessional does not apply in these cases. Molesters do not deserve such protection. Those who protect molesters should also be prosecuted for conspiracy.
The Pope is a religious figure, not a legal one.
The privacy of the confessional will never get overturned in the United States, especially as religiously dogmatic as the current religious Right is in the United States.
The Pope isn't in position to be demanding who should and who should not be prosecuted, at least not in the United States. If he wants the Church to stop protecting pedophilic priests, that's fine and he can make his demands within his Papal context.
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Anytime a priest confesses to molesting kids he should be charged. No more of this "privacy of the confessional" bull shit. This is America, you harm molest someone, you go to jail. No more hiding behind the church. Fuck. Why can't everyone see what a fucking horrible thing the catholic church is.
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This is the United States. The Rules of Law still apply and must continue to apply.
I am as disgusted by child molestation as you. But if we throw out the Constitution simply at our outrage, we're down the slippery slope where future outrages allow people to toss more of the Constitution away.
We.
Cannot.
Do.
That.
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The rules of law are not being upheld now. If someone were to tell me they were molesting a child and I didn't tell the police, I would be charged as an accomplice.
that is not happening in the catholic church.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
This is the United States. The Rules of Law still apply and must continue to apply.
I am as disgusted by child molestation as you. But if we throw out the Constitution simply at our outrage, we're down the slippery slope where future outrages allow people to toss more of the Constitution away.
We.
Cannot.
Do.
That.
I think it would be great if the new Popa would take action against molesting priests, but there are several protected confidences. I do think it's interesting to see a bunch of people who demand seperaion of church and state all of a sudden suggesting several ways in wich the state should interfere with the church. Kudos to JJ for being consistant.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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So as long as your a religious person, its alright to molest kids?
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Quote:
rex said:
So as long as your a religious person, its alright to molest kids?
No wich is why I hope (but doubt) that the new Pope will do more to see these people punished. What I was refering to was teh attemp to run over protected confidences that are currently in the constitution..... This would be to your lawer, doctor or religious leader.
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So if I went to my doctor and told him I was molesting kids, he wouldn't turn me in?
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Quote:
rex said:
So as long as your a religious person, its alright to molest kids?
Of course it's not alright!
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Quote:
rex said:
So if I went to my doctor and told him I was molesting kids, he wouldn't turn me in?
We'd need a criminal attorney to determine this.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
I do think it's interesting to see a bunch of people who demand seperaion of church and state all of a sudden suggesting several ways in wich the state should interfere with the church. Kudos to JJ for being consistant.
I'm not this queer leftist nut that probably too many of you think I am.
I am not anti-religion. I'm not anti-Christian. But I simply want it recognized that the U.S. is not a Christian theocracy.
But the establishment of medical, legal, and religious priviledge has served the U.S. well and should continue to do so. These priviledges protect ALL of us.
And I know I misspelled priviledge. LOL
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Quote:
rex said:
So if I went to my doctor and told him I was molesting kids, he wouldn't turn me in?
I don't know exactly. You'd have to ask a lawer or a doctor.
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Is it an official Catholic Church stance that rock music is a "vehicle of anti-religion"? I'm quite ignorant in regards to what exactly is common in pope behavior, so I'm really not sure.
He did say that almost 20 years ago, so maybe he's changed his mind(though I kind of doubt it), but that seems pretty crazy, especially considering the popularity of Christian rock.
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Quote:
Animalman said:
Is it an official Catholic Church stance that rock music is a "vehicle of anti-religion"? I'm quite ignorant in regards to what exactly is common in pope behavior, so I'm really not sure.
He did say that almost 20 years ago, so maybe he's changed his mind(though I kind of doubt it), but that seems pretty crazy, especially considering the popularity of Christian rock.
Why would a non-Catholic care I wonder.
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