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I could have sworn I heard that she was originally cast to play Talia. I think they decided that the character wouldn't have fit as well(which, in this story, is probably true).
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Of course, are spoilers.
The good, the good, and more good, because I didn't find one bad thing about this movie, not that I was ever looking. And why would I? Everything leading up to the moment that Batman finally appears is perfect.
For the first time on the big screen, we finally see exactly what drives a man to become a the legend that is Batman. And it was done in an emotionally moving fashion. I'll admit that early in the movie, when Bruce meets Ducard, the story telling was a little fast, but to slow it down would have meant cutting into a powerful retelling of the Wayne murders. Nolan and Goyer packed so much into Bruce's past. And when Thomas Wayne pulled him out of the cave, and later showed him the pearl necklace, we finally got to see the man Bruce's father really was. His explanation of the trains, and his concern over his son showed exactly why Bruce cannot take a life. Sure, he was going to. He was thinking about it. He almost did it. But when he met Falcone, and chose to disappear and experience the world of the criminal, it brought out the compassion for life that he inherited from his father.
But Nolan and Goyer weren't finished. Because after they set up the man, they showed the true Dark Knight in action. And they really packed that in, too. The first time Batman fights, and every time after that, it was like watching a Batman comic in action. He didn't fight head on, he came out of the shadows. He used the shadows. He put fear in the criminals. And when he interrogated Flass, pulling him up, sending him down, pulling him up...Flass swore to God, and Batman said "Swear to me!" and sent him back down, that was perfect. That was Batman.
But that wasn't all. Bruce had to learn to wear not one mask, but two. The second was the billionare playboy who brought two European babes to a hotel restaurant, who then stripped and dipped into the fish tank. So Bruce bought the hotel. And yet, when he saw Rachel, he was ashamed of his actions. But he knew what he needed to do. This mask worked so well, that he later made page eight: "Drunken Billionare Burns House Down" (did I quote that right?), while the larger events of the movie made page one.
And the larger events? I don't quite understand why Ra's had it out for Gotham, but his means of distruction were right up his alley. Scarecrow was great, and the Zsasz cameo was brilliant. I didn't catch any other inmates, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few more.
Some things that really stood out? When Batman first encountered the Scarecrow, and barely escaped with his life. And then, to have to call Alfred to pick him up, that almost broke him. But Bruce made a valuble ally in Lucius Fox. And the way he turned over control of Wayne Enterprises to him? Priceless. I like how Lucius is in the secret. It's just not possible for Bruce to hid it from him, so Nolan and Goyer took the rode less traveled, and made him a part of the team. Also, Katie Holmes was excellent in her role as Rachel Dawes. But where will this lead? My cousin thinks she is this Batman's Harvey Dent, and that she will become Two-Face. I think he's right. Nolan and Goyer are all about the psychological and emotional facets of Batman, and if they are turning her into Two-Face, that little twitch she does will fit the role perfectly.
Other things, like the car, which really fit this story, and Gordon, who stood out and was truly James Gordon, were icing on the cake.
But what about Ra's Al Ghul? Talk about a plot twist. I thought that's what they were going to do, and it was brilliant. Is he really dead? I doubt it. There was no body, and he is the Demon's Head. The best villains always return after the first encounter.
Some people may disagree with Batman saying: "I can't kill you, but I don't have to save you," but I think people forget that this is Batman, not Superman. His compassion keeps him from crossing the line, and it gives him the strength to stay focussed. But he's not stupid. This gets into the original Batman, the one who didn't cry when a villain fell to his death by his own hand.
So now there are quite a few possibilities set up for the next movie, and a few after that. The Joker is in town. Scarecrow, Zsasz, and other nut-jobs are loose. There is the possibilty that Dawes will become Two-Face. And I'm sure we haven't seen the last of Ra's. Based on how this movie was done, I'm sure we'll see more than one villain in future movies as well, because Batman never gets to have it easy. I'll admit I was a little concerned at how using so many villains in one movie would work, but it did. And it showed the different aspects of Gotham's criminal world: the sane, and the insane.
I may be biased, but I think that this is the best comic book movie yet, and the next one should be even better.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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The idea of the Dawes' charachter becoming Two Face is a unique idea. It would be very bad if they had Holmes do it. She doesn't have the talent to pull that off.....honestly not many young actresses do. However, the idea of a woman playing a two faced character certainly has some merit.  Don't be surprised if in the next film you see a regular guy playing Harvey Dent and at the end they set it up for the third film for him to become Two Face.
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Quote:
PJP said:
Don't be surprised if in the next film you see a regular guy playing Harvey Dent and at the end they set it up for the third film for him to become Two Face.
I won't. But it would be interesting if they went with Dawes. And it would fit. Still, that leaves the question of how Dawes fits in to the rest of the movies, because she can't be a throw-away character.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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why not. she could get transferred to Chicago. She is not going to be involved romatically with Bruce.....she is most definitely a throw away character. She is no Mary Jane Watson.
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Quote:
PenWing said:
Nolan and Goyer packed so much into Bruce's past.
Rant here.
Goyer. Goyer is an awful writer. I really wouldn't be surprised if the creative vision wasn't primarily Nolan's(much in the same way Dark City was Proyas's). Honestly, the guy's writing makes me want to blow my brains out. See Blade II and III, that awful Nick Fury TV movie, and pretty much everything else he's done. His name being attached was one of the biggest reasons I was skeptical. If I was given the choice of staring at a wall for eight hours without blinking or reading something of David Goyer's, I would choose the wall. It would probably be more entertaining.
I refuse to think of BB as anything but Nolan's movie.
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And when he interrogated Flass, pulling him up, sending him down, pulling him up...Flass swore to God, and Batman said "Swear to me!" and sent him back down, that was perfect.
Yeah, I liked that line, too.
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I like how Lucius is in the secret.
I guess I was kind of OK with him knowing, but the fact that three people found out in just the first movie irked me a bit.
Quote:
My cousin thinks she is this Batman's Harvey Dent, and that she will become Two-Face. I think he's right. Nolan and Goyer are all about the psychological and emotional facets of Batman, and if they are turning her into Two-Face, that little twitch she does will fit the role perfectly.
Yikes. No offense to your cousin, but I think that would be a monumentally bad idea. Catastrophically bad. The Vesuvius of bad ideas. Just thinking about Katie Holmes in Two-Face makeup, flipping coins and such, it gives me Schumacher flashbacks.
Quote:
Still, that leaves the question of how Dawes fits in to the rest of the movies, because she can't be a throw-away character.
Sure she can. Vicky Vale?
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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Quote:
PenWing said:
Nolan and Goyer are all about the psychological and emotional facets of Batman,
Gimme your specific references for this one.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
PenWing said:
Nolan and Goyer are all about the psychological and emotional facets of Batman,
Gimme your specific references for this one.
They get into what makes Batman tick. We first meet Bruce in an Asian prison. We see him at his lowest point. We see how far he is fallen. Then we see why he fell. We see the most emotional telling of his parents' murders. We see how he handles it. We see how he rejects the law's choice to let the killer go. We see him almost cross the line. And then we see him fall. But we also see how his training gives him hope. We see how he learns to believe in man, and in Gotham. And we see him struggle with the need to lead to a dual life. How he has to make an ass out of himself to protect not only those he loves, but the city he fights for. We see the pain in his eyes when he's caught by Rachel running around with a pair of European hotties. We finally see the man behind the masks.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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I'm sorry, but that's a rather vague indicator when it comes to deep psychological exploration.
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Shut up and watch the movie. No more whining until you've actually seen it.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
I'm sorry, but that's a rather vague indicator when it comes to deep psychological exploration.
Like I said, the movie is not meant to be read, it's meant to be seen. Reading the script doesn't do it justice as it's the direction and the actors themselves that bring it to life.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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IT WAS A GOOD MOVIE. I REALLY LIKED IT.
Pariah186 (7:19:40 PM): Resident Evil 2 powns
Pariah186 (7:19:40 PM): Resident Evil 2 powns
Pariah186 (7:19:40 PM): Resident Evil 2 powns
Pariah186 (7:19:40 PM): Resident Evil 2 powns
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Batman is Bale's birthright. I dont know anyone I could imagine capturing Batman's intensity like Bale/Nolan did. I like this Batman almost better than the comic version. He was just so goddamn hardcore. That's why I think I like it better than the Spider-Man movies which I really fuckin love.
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I agree with all the good things everyone's been saying. This movie is probably one of the best made, best cast, best directed and best acted movie of all time. From hearing the bats at the beginning in surround sound, to the talk between Bruce and Rachel at the end, I was hooked. Every scene mattered. There was no lull at all.
The highlights:
The opening. Hearing the bats and seeing the bat symbol made me geek out. One of the greatest openings ever.
The scene with Bruce and his parents were riding the train. Very emotional and heartbreaking, since we all knew what was coming.
Bruce's training. I was worried this part of the movie would be slow. I was wrong. I loved it. Probably more than when we finally saw Batman.
When Batman first grabbed one of the thugs at the docks. It made me jump. I almost never get such a physical reaction out of a movie.
The Batmobile. Another thing I was worried about that I ended up loving. It fit perfectly with the theme of the movie.
The court scene. I was not expecting that scene. It was brilliant.
The aerial shot of Batman standing on the edge of the bulding. Beautiful. One of the shots I've been waiting for.
The plot twist. Holy shit was that unexpected.
Batman leaving Gordon mid-conversation. I was the only one in the theater that chuckled at those parts.
The scene between Batman and Flass. "Swear to me" That was the one scene that kept I couldn't stop thinking about.
The tone of the movie. Very dark and scary. How Batman is supposed to be.
Almost every line is quoteable. A mark of a truly great movie.
There were some minor things that bothered me, some of the scenes seemed forced or cut short, not enough scarecrow, but all of those things can be over looked.
This was more than a movie, it was an experience.
I can't wait to see it again.
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Quote:
rex said:
I almost never get suck a physical reaction out of a movie.
Try sitting in the back row.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
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I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
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I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the frenetic fight scenes. They gave me epilepsy! Half the time I didn't even know who was hitting whom. I was just kinda like, "Okay... Batman is fighting... I wonder what Gordon is doing."
Anyone else notice that the Nice Coat Homeless Guy was Boris the Bulled Dodger from Snatch? I mean, the dude had two lines!! Talk about all-star cast... geez..
Also, I thought the humor was excellently and very well timed.
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wine for the dogs.
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I had no idea. I love that guy. I say that guy because I can't spell or pronounce his name.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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This movie ranks with Memento as my favorite films. ANyone else but Nolan and it'd be another Burton/Schumacher "batman is cool looking" movie with more style than substance.
Bow ties are coool.
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Batman role fits Bale, but 'Begins' wears thin"highly focused dude"??  This guy wants a sense of humour from a Batman film?? Geez, when will these people die already?
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
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Quote:
This incarnation of Batman (Christian Bale) is too busy fighting crime to get romantic.
One of my problems with the film is that he does get romantic.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
This incarnation of Batman (Christian Bale) is too busy fighting crime to get romantic.
One of my problems with the film is that he does get romantic.
he didn't get romantic. He made like one gesture at the end of the movie, she shot him down, and he was like "oh, well. I'm batman."
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
This movie ranks with Memento as my favorite films. ANyone else but Nolan and it'd be another Burton/Schumacher "batman is cool looking" movie with more style than substance.
The movie is satisfying, but cliched and not very original. Nowhere near Memento.
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Granted, its not as good as Memento, but its a great movie.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
he didn't get romantic. He made like one gesture at the end of the movie, she shot him down, and he was like "oh, well. I'm batman."
I didn't mean it in such literal terms. I mean like the complimentary "Rachel!" "Bruce!" "I think I'm falling in love with Batman!" "I'll be her dark knight if she wants me too!". It's too fluffy.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
he didn't get romantic. He made like one gesture at the end of the movie, she shot him down, and he was like "oh, well. I'm batman."
I didn't mean it in such literal terms. I mean like the complimentary "Rachel!" "Bruce!" "I think I'm falling in love with Batman!" "I'll be her dark knight if she wants me too!". It's too fluffy.
He probably didn't have sex the entire time he was in Asia. Cut him some slack.
As for Two Face, since Nolan is doing the movies I'd love to see Guy Pierce as play Harvey Dent.
Bow ties are coool.
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Going to see Batman Begins tonight at 10:30 at an IMAX theater with a couple of friends. Will report on it later.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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It's about damn time someone did BATMAN right for christ sake! BB is a great movie! It reminded me of ALIEN the way he took people out. Great stuff! Now if the FF flick is done well maybe we'll keep getting quality superhero movies. I was starting to worry Hollywood would slam the door if BB sucked. They have to keep this crew and cast together for another 2 or 3 Batman flicks. Well done.
Life is short,,,, make it count......
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Quote:
Mr. Lesbo said:
Now if the FF flick is done well maybe we'll keep getting quality superhero movies.
If you're thinking the Fantastic Four movie is going to maintain the quality of Batman Begins, then I'd prepare for severe dissapointment.
MisterJLA is RACKing awesome.
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The FF movie will be at best, a good action movie.
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I just saw the movie at the IMAX. I hate to quote something of Schumaker's... ... or Jim Carrey, for that matter... but... 
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
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Quote:
rex said:
The FF movie will be at best, a good action movie.
And at worst it'll be the downfall of mankind.
Bow ties are coool.
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Just came home from seeing a 10:30 Batman Begins showing at an IMAX theater.
It was fantastic!
The acting...dialogue....interraction between characters..
acion....casting..script....was awesome!
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Dear Fanboys who furrowed thier brows at an asian Ras Al Ghul,
Who's laughing now you picky little shits?
Your friend who was a better Jedi in this film than the one I actully played a Jedi in,
Liam Neeson
PS:
Katie Holmes is funny looking.
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Well, as a picky little shit, I'm laughing now. With glee.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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Liam Neeson rocked in this.
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he rocked like a hurricane
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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If they make the next one with Joker and they make it as quality-conscious as this one and if they get Crispin Glover as Joker (of someone better I don't know about) I'll have to wear plastic underpants for weeks.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
"I am convinced that this world is of no importance, and that the only people who care about dates are imbeciles and Spanish teachers." -- Jean Arp, 1921
"If Jesus came back and saw what people are doing in his name, he would never never stop throwing up." - Max von Sydow, "Hannah and Her Sisters"
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 23,089
The Once, and Future Cunt 15000+ posts
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The Once, and Future Cunt 15000+ posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 23,089 |
I'm glad they kept most of the film out of the trailers.
It was a pleasant surprise.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1
living in 1962 15000+ posts
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,546 Likes: 1 |
This is the Batman I've waited all my life to see on screen. This is what I wanted in 1989, and only partially got. I'm fucking happy.
Small complaints:
1. Would've liked to see a bit more of what Gordon had to deal with, especially since they had Flass in there. Oh well. Guess there wasn't time for it.
2. Give me the Elfman score. I so much wanted to hear that when Bats appeared for the first time. It would've added a lot to the moment. Ah, well.
Like I said, the complaints are small. Bale is perfect. The grasp of Batman is spot on, and for once he's the main character in his own movie.
The Ras swerve was fantastic and so much better than what I expected. It made complete sense, as well. Well done. I fucking loved this. Can't wait to see more. I hope they have Dent in the next, and build to Two-Face in the finale. But Katie Holmes ain't got that in her. Gotta be a real actor.
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