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PJP said:
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PaulWellr said:
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the G-man said:
Paul, without getting into a point by point debate with you, I note that much of your most recent post seems predicated on the fact that Wilson's version of events differs from Rove's.

Do you recall that Senate Intelligence Committee found that Wilson was lying about his version of events?

You're trying to build a case against Rove based in no small part on a discredited individual, with a discredited version of events.

At this point, no one knows exactly what the facts are. And, as noted above, if more facts come out, it is possible that Rove's complicity may be established (though, even then, as noted above, it is very possible that the release of Plame's name by ANYONE was not a crime).

However, until those facts come out, trying to build a case on innuendo is rather pointless.



Please explain why the issue of Wilson's credibility makes any difference at all.

Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that Wilson was completely wrong.

1. Does that mean that Plame wasn't a CIA agent?
2. Does that mean that Plame was not outed?
3. Does that mean that Rove did not out Plame?
4. Does that mean that it is not a Federal crime to knowingly reveal the identity of a CIA agent?
5. Does that mean that McClellan did not say that Rove was not involved?
6. Does that mean that Bush did not say that if anybody in the White House was involved, they would be fired?

If not, what the hell difference does it make?

Once again we see a classic attempt to distract attention from the real issue. Expect to hear this nonsense parroted endlessly by wingers, Republican politicians, RNC members, Republican spokespersons, media shills and right-wing media outlets.



and G-Man!



That goes without saying.

To quote Larry Johnson:


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The Republicans now want to hide behind the legalism that "no laws were broken". I don't know if a man made law was broken but an ethical and moral code was breached. For the first time a group of partisan political operatives publically identified a CIA NOC. They have set a precendent that the next group of political hacks may feel free to violate.

They try to hide behind the specious claim that Joe Wilson "lied". Although Joe did not lie let's follow that reasoning to the logical conclusion. Let's use the same standard for the Bush Administration. Here are the facts. Bush's lies have resulted in the deaths of almost 1800 American soldiers and the mutilation of 12,000. Joe Wilson has not killed anyone. He tried to prevent the needless death of Americans and the loss of American prestige in the world.

But don't take my word for it, read the biased Senate intelligence committee report. Even though it was slanted to try to portray Joe in the worst possible light this fact emerges on page 52 of the report: According to the US Ambassador to Niger (who was commenting on Joe's visit in February 2002), "Ambassador Wilson reached the same conclusion that the Embassy has reached that it was highly unlikely that anything between Iraq and Niger was going on." Joe's findings were consistent with those of the Deputy Commander of the European Command, Major General Fulford.

The Republicans insist on the lie that Val got her husband the job. She did not. She was not a division director, instead she was the equivalent of an Army major. Yes it is true she recommended her husband to do the job that needed to be done but the decision to send Joe Wilson on this mission was made by her bosses.

At the end of the day, Joe Wilson was right. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It was the Bush Administration that pushed that lie and because of that lie Americans are dying. Shame on those who continue to slander Joe Wilson while giving Bush and his pack of liars a pass. That's the true outrage.




As you can see, Johnson has dealt with that smear. So is Johnson -- and every other CIA person who's backed up Plame's and Wilson's accounts -- a "liar", too?

G-Man refuses to admit that Plame was a NOC. Johnson and other CIA staff have admitted that she was. I'll take Johnson word, thanks.

Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.