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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
They do tend to make everything else look much better by comparison.
Its the same as reading your posts.
It makes me appreciate everyone elses more.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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So basically you misunderstand what I said about Liefeld over Moore and transform that into me liking Liefeld? Interesting.
Just to clarify, what I said was that Liefeld's version of Supreme was an original creation while Moore's was a fanboy's version of the Silver Age Superman (a sore fanboy's version at that...)
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
Liefeld's version of Supreme was an original creation
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I'm betting you don't know much about what Supreme was like before Moore came along.
You've actually convinced yourself that Moore's Supreme is something original, haven't you?
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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*grabs a bag of pop corn*
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Stop entertaining rex, MOTA!
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Yes, MOTA should be boring like the other posters.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
I'm betting you don't know much about what Supreme was like before Moore came along.
You've actually convinced yourself that Moore's Supreme is something original, haven't you?
Boy, you're just dying to get your cyber-arse kicked again, aren't you? Are you that bored? Well, I ain't. Let me just reiterate:
Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
Liefeld's version of Supreme was an original creation
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You've reiterated that you think that Moore's Supreme is an original creation and you completely misunderstood what I said about Liefeld's version.
Guess you don't have much of an argument then...
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
Liefeld's version of Supreme was an original creation
I missed the part where I mention Moore here.
Oh, by the way:
Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
Liefeld's version of Supreme was an original creation
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Compared to Moore's, it was. It sucks that you're too much of a fanboy to notice that.
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It's a lot like watching a retarded monkey fucking a football.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
It sucks that you're too much of a fanboy to notice that.
You really can't say that to anyone after saying this:
Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
Liefeld's version of Supreme was an original creation
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Clarify it for me please.
What is it about Liefeld's version of Supreme that you don't think is original compared to Moore's version, which is nothing more than a rip off of the SA Superman?
Is it that you've blinded yourself into believing that Liefeld can only come up with rip offs in EVERYTHING he does but Moore isn't guilty of that?
Just out of curiosity, how much do you know about Supreme from before Moore came along?
Is it at least something or nothing at all?
Last edited by ManofTheAtom; 2005-07-20 9:06 PM.
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
What is it about Liefeld's version of Supreme that you don't think is original compared to Moore's version, which is nothing more than a rip off of the SA Superman?
Liefeld admitted to making Supreme to do the Superman stories he wanted to write. Moore took the character and turned the book into a metaphor for the comic book as a whole showing both the plus and minuses of each era of comic history. In other words, he made the book mean something other than being a standard RL rippoff.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Regenerated 15000+ posts
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Oh my gob....how did MOTA find his way back here? Didn't Mxy leave him in the woods, like, a year ago? Who dropped the fucking bread crumbs? 
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"Ah good. Now I'm on the internet clearly saying I like tranny cleavage. This shouldn't get me harassed at all." -- Lothar of the Hill People
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Quote:
thedoctor said:Liefeld admitted to making Supreme to do the Superman stories he wanted to write. Moore took the character and turned the book into a metaphor for the comic book as a whole showing both the plus and minuses of each era of comic history. In other words, he made the book mean something other than being a standard RL rippoff.
The problem with the term "standard RL ripoff" is that Liefeld's rip off tend to only steal the visual aspects of the characters, like Troll being a traced Wolverine or the rock guy whose name I don't know from a team of characters I don't know being a visual rip off of the Thing.
The problem with Moore is that he rips off actual characters, personalities, backgrounds, and pretty much everything that makes a character what he is.
People seem to see the visual rip off as a bigger "crime" than what Moore does.
What Moore did, which I'm sure from some perspectives can be seen to be what you lay it out to be, is still a bigger rip off of Superman than what Liefeld did.
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
Quote:
thedoctor said:Liefeld admitted to making Supreme to do the Superman stories he wanted to write. Moore took the character and turned the book into a metaphor for the comic book as a whole showing both the plus and minuses of each era of comic history. In other words, he made the book mean something other than being a standard RL rippoff.
The problem with the term "standard RL ripoff" is that Liefeld's rip off tend to only steal the visual aspects of the characters, like Troll being a traced Wolverine or the rock guy whose name I don't know from a team of characters I don't know being a visual rip off of the Thing.
The problem with Moore is that he rips off actual characters, personalities, backgrounds, and pretty much everything that makes a character what he is.
People seem to see the visual rip off as a bigger "crime" than what Moore does.
What Moore did, which I'm sure from some perspectives can be seen to be what you lay it out to be, is still a bigger rip off of Superman than what Liefeld did.
You, by your own admission, have not read the work Moore did on Supreme; therefore, you cannot credibly assert anything about said work. Your arguments are nil.
Liefeld's Supreme, which he only occasionally actually wrote, suffered from being inconsistent with the only static concepts being that he looked like Superman and had Superman's powers. Personality wise, no he wasn't Superman. He also wasn't stable with his characterisation changing from issue to issue. So, honestly, he wasn't even a character at all. He was a caricature. Moore was at least honest with his interpretation. He took the overall genericness of Supreme and spun it into something entertaining and insightful.
There's a fine line between ripoff and homage. It takes talent and skilled execution to know which is which. Moore has both. Liefeld doesn't.
Until you actually read Moore's Supreme work, I've said all I'm going to say to you on the subject. From now on I'm just going to make fun of any of your posts trying to argue against my points.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
You, by your own admission, have not read the work Moore did on Supreme; therefore, you cannot credibly assert anything about said work. Your arguments are nil.
Liefeld's Supreme, which he only occasionally actually wrote, suffered from being inconsistent with the only static concepts being that he looked like Superman and had Superman's powers. Personality wise, no he wasn't Superman. He also wasn't stable with his characterisation changing from issue to issue. So, honestly, he wasn't even a character at all. He was a caricature. Moore was at least honest with his interpretation. He took the overall genericness of Supreme and spun it into something entertaining and insightful.
There's a fine line between ripoff and homage. It takes talent and skilled execution to know which is which. Moore has both. Liefeld doesn't.
Until you actually read Moore's Supreme work, I've said all I'm going to say to you on the subject. From now on I'm just going to make fun of any of your posts trying to argue against my points.
I've read enough of it to know what it is, a lame rip off not only of Superman but of Moore's own work.
Why spend money reading something that's obviously derivative just from looking at the cover?
And the only difference between homage and rip off is in the reader's eyes.
Moore is honest enough to admit he ripped off Superman, why can't his fans be as honest?
You can find all you need to know about Moore's Supreme here http://platinumstudios.com/titles/supreme.php
I'd like to see you counter how his stories aren't taken from Silver Age Superman comics...
Last edited by ManofTheAtom; 2005-07-21 3:15 PM.
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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This is my new favorite thread.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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This pic is dedicated to MOTA, the biggest fan of the Silver Age I know:
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Quote:
The Time Trust said:
This pic is dedicated to MOTA, the biggest fan of the Silver Age I know:
This panel should read, "Lois will LOVE these new anal beads I made fo her! Maybe she'll let me spank her again!!!"
Uschi said:I won't rape you, I'll just fuck you 'till it hurts and then not stop and you'll cry. MisterJLA: RACKS so hard, he called Jim Rome "Chris Everett." In Him, all porn is possible. He is far above mentions in so-called "blogs." RACK him, lest ye be lost! "I can't even brush my teeth without gagging!" - Tommy Tantillo: Wank & Cry, heckpuppy, and general laughingstock ![[Linked Image from i6.photobucket.com]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/JoeMama13/RedSoxBanner05.png)
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Here you are, Joe: 
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Perfect. Thanks, Triple-T.
Uschi said:I won't rape you, I'll just fuck you 'till it hurts and then not stop and you'll cry. MisterJLA: RACKS so hard, he called Jim Rome "Chris Everett." In Him, all porn is possible. He is far above mentions in so-called "blogs." RACK him, lest ye be lost! "I can't even brush my teeth without gagging!" - Tommy Tantillo: Wank & Cry, heckpuppy, and general laughingstock
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Quote:
The Time Trust said:
Here you are, Joe:
Hope she doesn't mind getting them second hand from Galactus.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Uschi said:I won't rape you, I'll just fuck you 'till it hurts and then not stop and you'll cry. MisterJLA: RACKS so hard, he called Jim Rome "Chris Everett." In Him, all porn is possible. He is far above mentions in so-called "blogs." RACK him, lest ye be lost! "I can't even brush my teeth without gagging!" - Tommy Tantillo: Wank & Cry, heckpuppy, and general laughingstock
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Oh, shit, I didn't wanna do this, but you're forcing me into it. Damn you. Damn you for making me kick your ass again. Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
Clarify it for me please.
What is it about Liefeld's version of Supreme that you don't think is original compared to Moore's version, which is nothing more than a rip off of the SA Superman?
I haven't read either. I'm mocking Lefield because... well, he's Lefield. More to the point, I'm mocking you for liking Lefield; not because of his lack of literary value, because I haven't actually read anything he's wrote... just because you like Lefield, and I think that's hilarious. I simply do. It's a subjective feeling... though I'm sure everyone else here knows exactly what I mean.
I have no real evidence that the ripped off Superman, because I haven't read the comic. If you ask me, honestly, did Lefield ripoff Superman, I'd say I have no clue. I have a brain, therefore I'm smart enough not to judge a book without having read it.
You're not.
Quote:
Is it that you've blinded yourself into believing that Liefeld can only come up with rip offs in EVERYTHING he does but Moore isn't guilty of that?
I never said Moore didn't rip off Superman: I haven't read his Supreme, therefore I don't really know. I'd like to read it, but I haven't yet.
However, I honestly don't give a dancing fuck if he ripped off Superman or not; as long as the story is good, I'll like it. If it turns out to suck, I won't. That simple. If he has to rip off characters to tell the stories he wants without sucking DC's cock, good for him.
Quote:
Just out of curiosity, how much do you know about Supreme from before Moore came along?
Is it at least something or nothing at all?
All I've read about Supreme is that he's a Superman ripoff wirtten by both the God of comics and the man who symbolizes everything that's wrong with the medium.
Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
The problem with the term "standard RL ripoff" is that Liefeld's rip off tend to only steal the visual aspects of the characters, like Troll being a traced Wolverine or the rock guy whose name I don't know from a team of characters I don't know being a visual rip off of the Thing.
You're talking about Bedrock, the masturbatory teen hero from Youngblood. Years after Moore had used comics to talk about topics like fascism and cold war paranoia, Lefield was just getting around to superheroes caught wanking.
Quote:
The problem with Moore is that he rips off actual characters, personalities, backgrounds, and pretty much everything that makes a character what he is.
If that's what it takes to make Watchmen, so be it.
Quote:
People seem to see the visual rip off as a bigger "crime" than what Moore does.
Actually, Lefield's bigger crime is being a lame shite.
Quote:
What Moore did, which I'm sure from some perspectives can be seen to be what you lay it out to be, is still a bigger rip off of Superman than what Liefeld did.
However, from what I've heard, Moore used it to reflect on the comic book medium while Lefield had it punching baddies...
Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
I've read enough of it to know what it is, a lame rip off not only of Superman but of Moore's own work.
Ah, the first four pages of a comic in a previews catalogue always give such a complete view of the underlying topics in each story...
Quote:
You can find all you need to know about Moore's Supreme here http://platinumstudios.com/titles/supreme.php
...only surpassed by synopsis posted in the internet.
Quote:
Why spend money reading something that's obviously derivative just from looking at the cover?
DON'T. No one's telling you to buy it. However, if you don't read it you lose the right of bitching about it to the extent you do.
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When did I say I like Liefeld? All I said was that compared to Moore his version of Supreme was more original.
You're just lost in the fanboy absolutes that say that it's impossible for someone to like AND dislike the different things one single creator does.
One can like Watchmen and not Supreme, you did know that, right? (just to pick two examples).
And one doesn't have to buy something to "bitch" about it, we are all free to have an opinion on whatever the fuck we want to.
My opinion is that what some fanboys think is the "best Superman in 20 years" is just a lame rip off of the SA Superman and that by itself makes it a bad thing.
It's sad that your entire opinion on a creator's work is based on who they are as a person instead of the ACTUAL WORK ITSELF.
Just another problem with the fanboys...
Last edited by ManofTheAtom; 2005-07-22 2:32 AM.
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
You're just lost in the fanboy absolutes.....Just another problem with the fanboys...
You have got to be an alt.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Uschi said:I won't rape you, I'll just fuck you 'till it hurts and then not stop and you'll cry. MisterJLA: RACKS so hard, he called Jim Rome "Chris Everett." In Him, all porn is possible. He is far above mentions in so-called "blogs." RACK him, lest ye be lost! "I can't even brush my teeth without gagging!" - Tommy Tantillo: Wank & Cry, heckpuppy, and general laughingstock
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Joe Mama said:
Quote:
The Time Trust said:
This pic is dedicated to MOTA, the biggest fan of the Silver Age I know:
This panel should read, "Lois will LOVE these new anal beads I made fo her! Maybe she'll let me spank her again!!!"
A great example of bad psuedo-science.
And it's Superboy.
We all wear a green carnation.
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Doog the MIGHTY 10000+ posts
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technically wouldn't the sudden shift in gravity, and the lack of energy from a sun, and a whole bunch of other science shit caused by Superboy chaining them all together and dragging them through the universe cause every living thing on those planets to die anyway?
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yeah... but it's a comic book.
"Ah good. Now I'm on the internet clearly saying I like tranny cleavage. This shouldn't get me harassed at all." -- Lothar of the Hill People
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Quote:
ManofTheAtom said:
When did I say I like Liefeld? All I said was that compared to Moore his version of Supreme was more original.
As I recall you bought that comic when Lefield was doing it. Why would you buy it if you don't like Lefield, especially if you have the power of telling if a comic is good or bad by looking at the cover?
Quote:
You're just lost in the fanboy absolutes that say that it's impossible for someone to like AND dislike the different things one single creator does.
One can like Watchmen and not Supreme, you did know that, right? (just to pick two examples).
Did I say "I'll read Supreme and I'll like it" or "I'll read Supreme and I'll like it if it's good"? Go back and check, then fuck off.
Quote:
And one doesn't have to buy something to "bitch" about it, we are all free to have an opinion on whatever the fuck we want to.
We're free to bitch, but not to the extent you do. You talk about the quality of the story without having read it; you can freely talk about the quality of the concepts used, which is what you seem to dislike, but you CAN'T talk about the story unless you've READ it. Stories are READ. You place your eyes on the words and decypher the information. Without that, you don't know shit.
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My opinion is that what some fanboys think is the "best Superman in 20 years" is just a lame rip off of the SA Superman and that by itself makes it a bad thing.
You can disagree with the principle of the story (I disagree with the principle of GL: Rebirth because I don't agree with Jordan being brought back like that), but you can't bitch about the story itself (I've never said Rebirth is poorly written because I haven't read it).
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It's sad that your entire opinion on a creator's work is based on who they are as a person instead of the ACTUAL WORK ITSELF.
One example. I dare you.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 985
500+ posts
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500+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 985 |
I never bought Liefeld's version of Supreme or any other, I'm just aware of what makes the characters different from talking with people who have read them and reading about them on the internet.
Reading the comics won't give me more information than what I've already found: Liefeld's version (in spite of his admission of his creating him to tell Superman stories DC would never let him do) was an original creation compared to Moore's, which is an obvious rip off of the Silver Age Superman.
And the example you want is your obvious disdain for the Liefeld Supreme, your obvious refusal to accept that compared to Moore's version what Liefeld did was more original, and your obvious support of Moore's version in spite of it being a rip off.
I don't care what the quality of the storytelling might be, the facts are the facts:
Liefeld came up with a character that LOOKED like Superman but was an original creation, while Moore ripped off EVERY element from the Silver Age Superman and applied to Supreme.
You refuse to admit that.
Last edited by ManofTheAtom; 2005-07-23 1:24 AM.
Comics are like a Rorschach test; everyone has a different opinion on what they are and can be...
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