Hey, MagicJay!

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PCG342 said:
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magicjay38 said:
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PenWing said:
The gun manufacturer makes guns. Guns are weapons. They are made to kill. Some are made for hunting animals. Most are made for killing people. There is no negligence here. They know what they are making them for. The gun does just that. That is it's purpose. Guns are made to kill.



I don't think the arms industry would make that argument. That's admitting they are negligent.



Wait! how the fuck does that make them negligent? If they're manufacturing these objects to kill, and that's what they're doing, then the manufacturer is doing his job. If they've designed guns for some purpose other than killing, (I'd love to know what it is) and they're being used for murder, and the manufacturers are doing nothing about it, they're being negligent.

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You're saying the manufacturers are negligent because the gun falls in the wrong hands and is used to kill illegally. You're also saying the dealers are negligent for selling a gun to the wrong person.



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I never said any such thing. I said that a reasonable person can see the consequences of their participation in the commerce of firearms. But then you already conceded that they're negligent in the previous paragraph, so what difference does it make? Even the G-man will concede that negligence is a valid cause for action.



But you did say such a thing. I'll let it slide. Where did PenWing reinforce your statements about negligence? He plainly stated that gun manufacturers are producing a product that serves its one purpose: to kill. I'll be damned if I'm going to get a license, and a handgun permit, buy a Magnum Research Desert Eagle .50AE [legally, mind you], and then use it as a paperweight.

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There is a thing called a gun license. It is issued by the state. A person cannot purchase a firearm without this license. Well, that's not true, a person can purchase some guns, and that's the problem. Still, there is a government system (highly flawed, but it's there) that gives people deemed confident a license to own firearms.



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ABORT! ABORT!



Indeed. Not only does one need a gun license to purchase a rifle or shotgun, but another license is needed to purchase handguns, and yet another license is needed to legally conceal said handguns.... well, you could do it with a sawed-off shotgun, but such modifications are illegal anyway, and would then make legally concealing such a firearm a moot point. Also, you need a state-issued license to drive, which further reinforces the whole "potentially lethal" thing. Most reasonably dangerous things are regulated. Drugs, cars, and guns come to mind.

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Now, based on this, the same argument that you used to remove negligence from the automakers and retailers can be used to remove negligence from the gun manufactures and retailers.



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Sorry, but my argument is that a prudent person could forsee the consequences of their action. GM cannot be expected to forsee that PenWing is a crazy asshole that drives Hummers over pedestrians.



Then, how the fuck are weapons manufacturers supposed to know what their eventual customers plan on shooting!? Prudency and prediction of the future are two distinctly things.
By the way, the Hummer thing was mine, not PenWing's. It was a hypothetical situation. I have no intention of doing such a thing.
Now, your mention of legal and illegal purchase and use of firearms brings about an interesting point... the same one I used to declare the assault weapons ban pointless. The assault weapon ban was put in place to reduce violence, particularly within gangs. These are gangs, people! They're already breaking the law! They don't give a shit wether their guns are legal or not! Their weapons are already probably not registered to them, and they're using these guns for illegal purposes. What's another law broken going to mean?



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