RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Comic Books conclusions: comic book death penalty

so, its a well known comic fact that batman doesn't kill, despite how poorly he's written at the time.

but some 60 years of this theory in practice, coupled with a seemingly incompetant police and security force, has resulted in tens of thousands of murders and maimings -- several within batman's own exclusive club. the joker, two-face, zsasz and countless others have proven themselves murderers again and again, but yet none have forced batman to cross "the line."

but should they?

by taking the clown prince down "one last time" bring about a conclusion to the joker? ... or to batman?

If Bats makes it look like suicide, no one will know!

I think, when you're dealing with a conclusion/elseworlds story such as DKR, then its fine for someone like Batman to kill. But to have him do it on an ongoing basis though, no. Its standard is that he doesn't kill - otherwise what makes him different than a character like Punisher?

Or are you asking this question as if it were a real life kinda situation?

I think if superhero's were real they'd be considered failures by the general public and we'd turn against them. Really...they'd kill a monster from another planet (Doomsday, for instance) but they won't kill a monster from ours (Joker, who probably has a higher body count than Doomsday did).

Exactly. That's what I liked about stories like Kingdom Come and that issue of Superman with Manchester Black and the Elite. Superheroes who are willing to take that extra step would undoubtedly be looked on with more admiration by a public threatened by supervillains...

What has always seemed inconsistent about Batman is the fact that he steps outside of the law to accomplish his goals, yet he simultaneously relies on the laws he breaks to provide some semblence of justice. If Batman were serious about his mission, he'd lock the Joker and everyone else in a specially constructed prison so they couldn't break out over and over again...

Doc Savage had his own hospital where he performed lobotomies on criminals to make them into law-abiding citizens. Completely illegal, but it was effective, since he never faced more than one of his foes (namely John Sunlight) twice.

I was having a conversation with another poster about this issue. One thing that came up interesting is the different viewpoints the Marvel philosophy differs from the DC one. Even with and especially with the characters. One thing I admittedly enjoyed aout Busieks writing in JLA/Avengers was that the heroes had different philosophies as a by-product of their respective universe. You will most likely find a murdering hero in the Marvel world than DC. But that's not to say that Marvel doesnt have its boyscouts, such as Captain America or Spider-Man. As much as Batman accuses Superman as being one he is just as guilty due to his no killing stance.

Enter Wonder Woman who obviously is getting a push and her warrior philosophy is putting hands of the executioner in the heroes hands. I enjoy the conflict that DC is putting in the story front that poses the question "Should the titans of the planet have the power to decide who should die without trial?" I think Batman should be pushed to his limits. He's a crazy fucker. I think that should be exploited in some fashion. Other than being a great villain, theres no excuse for the Joker to still be alive.

As with anything in comics, keeping things the same just makes everything predictable and stagnant.

so i'm enjoying the paces DC is currently putting their heroes thru in regards to questions like this.

Personally I don't think it tarnishes the heroes one bit if they make the odd exception every once in a blue moon depending on the circumstances. Jus so long as you don't go all "Punisher" on Batman or Wonder Woman to where it's a primary or expected part of their character.

A death should shock the reader but it should also be a logical conclusion of a particular circumstance. Simple death for it's own sake is never good nor very heroic.

As for the Joker, i'm more concerned as to why he's still wearing that stupid old fashioned tuxedo rather than whether he's been allowed to live too long or not.

...and MrGAYJLA is most interested in his penis size!

depends. On common thieves or speeders, no. But someone who kills repeatedly because they get off on it, yes. Especially if they've proven they can not, and will not, be rehabilitated. Sure, a few whining idiots would be upset, but so what. They'd be doing society a favor. Anyone who has such little respect for innocents does not deserve to have their own life anymore.

That's a really badly drawn Bat-Man.

THE Bat-Man.

I would, personally, praise super-heroes, cops, or just a regular guy who killed a multi-time murderer/rapist or anyone who planned a terrorist attack. The DCU has it a lot worse than we do aswell, they havnt just got lone-wolf killers and Al-Queida, they've got Kobra [much bigger than Al-Queida], Joker, Darkseid, or some other nutcase who thinks he'll destroy part of the city just to get some attention

This should really be addressed. Luthor bringing it up while he was still President would have made sense, protecting the people is the first order of the day, and theres got to be a point where you stop calling monsters like the Joker a person, he just doesnt deserve any rights

I'd be fine with Batman crossing the line. No Punisher BS, thats just gotten ridiculous. No matter how many mobsters Punisher kills, they always magically re-spawn straight away. No big villains like the Joker could really be killed off, but what if a lower ranking villain crossed the line, killed someone very close to Batman, and forced his hand? batman making it look like suicide would be bloody perfect. He's already that dark, so a no killing stance just doesnt make any sense. he should do it ONLY when he's pushed to it, like Captain America, Thor, Wonder Woman, Aquaman etc....

I would use my powers for evil mostly.

You would be my bitch of course........now go and get me a soda.(not sarcasm)

I'll get you your Soda Greek-man, I'd just empty part of it out, piss in it, then smile as I watched you drink it. Then 10 years down the line I'd sell my story to the papers and be on countless chat-shows telling them how I pissed in your drink and got the last laugh, even after all the sexual harrasment issues I had with you back in the day when I was your side-kick

Fuck Off

Damn! Thats one fucking mean bird!

yeah

In real life I would condone the death penalty for someone as wretched as the Joker. In comicbook life, though, he's one sexxay bitch.

Surely everyone would be cool with it if a villain was killed in a fight. Like, some mobster is bringing it to Batman, and Batman is all like "KEEE-YA!" and kicks him in the groin or something and he dies. Dies of groin-kick. The worst way to go. That's just self defence on Batman's part. It's not as if we're necessarily talking about Batman lining them up and going at them with one of those big electric prod things they kill cows with.

Yeah but Batman's inner monologue is always going on about how he has to know when to stop so people don't die from his actions. As incredable and impossible as it is, it's the next bit keeping Batman a level above Superman - control of his power ALWAYS.

Why not put him in the situation where he has to kill someone to save someone? That's hardly a unique one for cops.

"There is always another way."

In those situations, the victim usually dies, right? Batman's trying to not kill someone and the victim gets the headshot.

I would have to disagree strongly that the public would welcome a superhero who was willing to kill. Look at how many people already oppose the death penalty and then explain to me why those people would suddenly be fine with some vigilante in spandex serving as the executioner.

That said, I think that in the comic book world it would be alright for Batman to take that extra step only if it was necessary to save someone and there was no other way. Making Batman into a killer is one step away from Punisher sloppiness. Batman has finesse and style.