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Joel Kotkin, an Irvine Senior Fellow at the New America Foundation, is the author of "The City: A Global History." He argues in today's Wall St. Journal that: [The gulf coast], is one of the fastest growing in the U.S. Its relatively low costs and balmy climate have turned it into the "opportunity coast." Yet clearly the Gulf's history has shown that ignoring nature has its perils. Few now remember Indianola, south of Houston. Until it was wiped out by hurricanes, first in 1875 and then again in 1886, it was Texas's second-largest port. Today, most of that city lies under water.
The other, better-known case, is Galveston. Before a 1900 hurricane--which took 6,000 lives--it was the premier port and commercial center on the Texas coast. After the hurricane, the flow of commerce shifted inexorably to inland Houston, which was, and remains, better protected from the Gulf's annual tantrums.
Such lessons should guide development along the Gulf in the coming years. For one thing, it may make sense to use marketplace mechanisms--in the form of insurance premiums--to let developers accurately assess the risk of new development. After all, federal assistance may be limited in the future. Some places may need to be abandoned. Whole towns already have been demolished for safety reasons in parts of the Mississippi flood plain as have homes in some of the riskier parts of east Texas. Programs to buy houses from existing residents, move towns to higher ground and create new greenbelts, will benefit the environment--not to mention the taxpayers--by relieving them of the burden of subsidizing repeatedly flooded areas.
A less extreme but equally sensible course can be applied throughout the Gulf region by steering new development--through either environmental or insurance restrictions--further out into the interior.
More broadly, as a nation, we may want to consider ways to encourage greater development further inland. Americans have been crowding into the coasts for generations, even though one of our great assets is the broad interior hinterland. Our continued population growth--from 310 million now to 400 million by 2050--may make repopulating the hinterlands more economically viable. Instead of offering "homesteads" or funds for repeated rebuildings on the crowded, and sometimes dangerous, coasts--particularly in below-sea-level New Orleans--it might make more sense to encourage settlement and investment deeper into our nation's interior.
This was the essence of much of 19th-century federal policy, which gave incentives for canals and railroads, as well as providing cheap or free land on the Plains. This could also bring new life to parts of country that have been losing jobs and people for a generation, but may now be ready for revival. With the Internet and small-jet travel, some of these areas, such as the Dakotas, are already showing signs of becoming more competitive in the national and global economy. It is a trend worth boosting, and may come to be the most attractive strategic lesson to emerge from Katrina and Rita. Thoughts?
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Nothing wrong with the Midwest. But it's flat, for the most part.
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It's not the most exciting landscape out here. 
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Quote:
Wednesday said:
You first.
I live in upstate New York. Politically, geographically and culturally its a lot closer to the midwest than the coast.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Nothing wrong with the Midwest. But it's flat, for the most part.
The one time I drove through the midwest I liked the fact it was flat. It was like being on the autobahn because no one drove the speed limit.
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My wife and I loved Nashville so much we could move there tomorrow. I will probably sell my portion of the business in 15-20 years and then will definitely think about it.
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My brother lived in Idaho for a couple of years. Very flat and it was really brown. Nobody knew what a bratwurst was either. 
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Uh, isn't Tennessee a Southern state? I thought Idaho was in the Great Basin. No matter, I don't care where they go SO LONG AS IT'S NOT CALIFORNIA!  Seriously, the State motto is 'Welcome to California. Now go home!
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I think we're using the term midwest pretty liberally. Never been to Nashville but have heard several people say pretty much what PJP said. Sounds like a fun town.
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I dunno what the edges of the Midwest are anymore, but I do know we have our own Mason-Dixon line. It's called I-70. Seriously - anyone who lives in Ohio, Indiana, or Illinois can back me up on this.
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I almost went to law school in Kansas--I thought it was kinda nice out there.
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Quote:
PJP said:
My wife and I loved Nashville so much we could move there tomorrow. I will probably sell my portion of the business in 15-20 years and then will definitely think about it.
Tennessee isn't a Midwest state. Many use the Ohio River to divide the Midwest from the South. To me, the Midwest consists of...
Ohio
Indiana
Michigan
Illinois
Missouri
Iowa
Wisconsin
Minnesota
I always saw Kansas, Nebraska, and the Dakotas as "Plain States."
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I once read someone conducted an experiment to show that Kansas was indeed flatter than a pancake.
But yes. If the gulf coast will regularly get flattened, why not think about discouraging people to move there?
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In college, I took a geology class. The professor who taught it made the same point, namely, that people should not be trying to live permanently in areas prone to flooding and erosion.
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Kind of remind me of the people who live on the cones of volcanos because the nitrogen in the volcanic soil is good for crops.
Not exactly a good long term view.
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As far as natural disasters go, it would seem that the Midwest is perhaps the safest place in the U.S.
We do have tornadoes, though the worst months are April through June. But earthquakes are extremely rare. No volcanic activity nearby. We do have rivers that can and have flooded, but again, very rare.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
As far as natural disasters go, it would seem that the Midwest is perhaps the safest place in the U.S.
We do have tornadoes, though the worst months are April through June. But earthquakes are extremely rare. No volcanic activity nearby. We do have rivers that can and have flooded, but again, very rare.
Life is a risky business. The only thing for sure about it is no one is getting out alive! I've experienced and continue to face the threat of significant earthquakes. Don't know much about hurricanes but everybody learns about plate tektonics in school. In my life time the odds are good that I will experience an 8.0 earthquake. Would I consider leaving California? Not for anyplace in the USA. I love my home state. I was born here and expect to die here. If it comes from 'the big one' so be it. We've taken many precautions to protect ourselves. Foriegners, you guys, often note the flimsy construction of our housing. It's built to bend with the movement of the earth beneath it. Earthquakes are an acceptable risk, with or without insurance. Shit happens. San Francisco city fathers were very clever in 1906. The city lay in ruins and no one had earthquake insurance. So they had the Fire Dept. burn the ruins down. Everyone had fire insurance. 
You think people will leave the gulf coast because of the hurricanes? Maybe a few. But I expect most feel the same about their homes as I do about mine.
Currently listening to: Good Old Boys Like Me - Don Williams
'I can still hear that soft Southern wind in the live oak trees… '
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That's fine. People live where they want to live or where they have to live.
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Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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I think people should live where they want to live. The question is whether or not the federal government, or any other body, should make that decision effectively "risk free," by insuring that decision.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
I think people should live where they want to live. The question is whether or not the federal government, or any other body, should make that decision effectively "risk free," by insuring that decision.
I would be willing to bet that a cost benefit analysis would show that occupation of the said lands generates far more revenue than expense due to flooding. Besides, who wants an insurance salesman dictating their life? I don't even like to talk to them at parties! 
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Quote:
I would be willing to bet that a cost benefit analysis would show that occupation of the said lands generates far more revenue than expense due to flooding.
I don't know. Beyond activities incidental to the necessity of having port cities, or more modest tourist/seasonal type places, is there really any activity in those areas that couldn't be done as effectively someplace else?
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Quote:
the G-man said:
I think people should live where they want to live. The question is whether or not the federal government, or any other body, should make that decision effectively "risk free," by insuring that decision.
Even I do not expect the government--local, state, or Federal--to do create "risk free" living environments.
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In which case, you should not be seeking government assistance when a predictable disaster happens.
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Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
In which case, you should not be seeking government assistance when a predictable disaster happens.
I see both sides of this particular point. But what about those who simply cannot afford to move elsewhere? Or to buy insurance ahead of natural disasters?
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
I see both sides of this particular point. But what about those who simply cannot afford to move elsewhere? Or to buy insurance ahead of natural disasters?
At the very least, once the place gets trashed in a national disaster, they ought to move then.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
In which case, you should not be seeking government assistance when a predictable disaster happens.
I see both sides of this particular point. But what about those who simply cannot afford to move elsewhere? Or to buy insurance ahead of natural disasters?
Insurance is fine, if you can afford it. But otherwise, if the place is zoned "not for human habitation", you shouldn't be there.
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Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
First Amongst Daves said:
In which case, you should not be seeking government assistance when a predictable disaster happens.
I see both sides of this particular point. But what about those who simply cannot afford to move elsewhere? Or to buy insurance ahead of natural disasters?
Insurance is fine, if you can afford it. But otherwise, if the place is zoned "not for human habitation", you shouldn't be there.
Um, ok. I'm in the dark on this one. Are there people, in the aftermath of Katrina and Rita, who lived in zones publicly designated "not for human habitation" who are now trying to get governmental aid?
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That's not what I meant. If a government tells you not to live on the cone of a volcano because one day it might erupt, you just don't go and live there. What's the difference between that and a place which is likely to be savaged by a hurricane every century?
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There's a big difference between staying away from a single volcano and staying away from over half of the coastline of an entire country and the entire state of Florida. Should people in California not receive aid when hit by an earthquake? Fact is you're not safe from a natural disaster anywhere in the US. I remember when it was the Carolinas that got smacked every year by hurricanes. When the midwest flooded every fucking year. When snowstorms covered all of New England in snow and ice. When tornados ripped across the Great Plains states. When the Pacific Rim violently shook with quakes that led to mudslides right before everything caught on fire.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
There's a big difference between staying away from a single volcano and staying away from over half of the coastline of an entire country and the entire state of Florida.
I don't think its a question of "staying away" from all those areas as much as a question "if you are going to live there, be prepared to build it in such a way that minimizes the chances of it being washed or blown away becaues otherwise the government isn't going to save your ass."
I live in Upstate NY. I have to build a house in a way that withstands extreme cold. The government makes me. And if I didn't, and my pipes froze and wrecked every thing I own, both my insurance company and my government are going to tell me "tough luck."
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I'm all about personal responsibility; and, yes, I agree that buildings should be made to deal with the circumstances of the region they're in. But there is a big difference between your pipes bursting and wrecking everything you own and your pipes bursting, destroying your house, and every house in your town.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Those'd be some big fuckin' pipes. 
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As you would most likely recognize, however, doctor, the issue isn't the one foolish homeowner. It's the cumulative effect of thousands or foolish homeowners.
If everyone built improperly weatherproofed homes the result would, in fact, be mass destruction of the homes in the town.
If it is was just one or two homes that were improperly built in a flood zone, that would be one thing. But it isn't. It's thousands of people. And under those circumstances, why should the government, or anyone else, expect to allow them to do it again?
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My uncle's house and my roommate's parents' house were not in flood plains, yet they were flooded out during the hurricane. Wind damage was minimal and covered by insurance (btw, for those of you who don't already know it, hurricane insurance does not cover damage done by tidal surges. You have to own seperate insurance for flooding to cover it even though the hurricane caused the flooding. Even in areas not prone to flooding at all.). That's what most of the cost coming from the Gulf Coast is. Flooding in areas that don't normally flood and taking over homes that don't carry flood insurance. There are many people who don't have that insurance because their insurance salesmen told them they didn't need it not living in a flood plain.
And what about where I live? It's obvious now that hurricanes can and will strike this area and destroy homes and businesses. Forget the fact that I live about 100 miles inland.
Fact is that my uncle has lived in Gulfport coming up on 40 years. In that time, he's only seen two storms that really did any big damage where government aid was really necessary. Katrina, of course, was one and Camile was the other. In between all that time the only money he took from the government was his paycheck for being an employee of the US Postal Service. Is the government now supposed to tell him to fuck himself if he decides to stay? What about not only the port and tourist industry, but the shrimping/fishing industry, the timber comanies, the natural gas pipelines, and the oil refineries and rigs?
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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We had a hurricane hit upstate NY once too (1972, Agnes). My point is not about the places that have irregular damage, but the places that have it on a more regular basis.
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Again, I've lived in Mississippi for most of my 27 years. This is the first time in my life I remember Gulfport and that whole region being hit hard like this. Usually, it's just the state and the utility companies that have to deal with the aftermath.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Those'd be some big fuckin' pipes.
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