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Quote:
Fused said:
Flames got a point though boyos. People gettin suckered into buyin a 360 on Tuesday are gonna be kickin themselves when PS3 and Revolution come out. For Microsoft to be so green in the console wars they are makin some big mistakes. Fact is, 360 is nowhere near the technological leap that the other 2 companies are going to do. PS2 really did milk its console gaming life out. It came out much earlier than X-Box did and 360 is jumping the gun in rushing out a relatively inferior product when considering the next gen war. Once microsoft realized what kind of competition they were up against they shoulda went back to the drawing board and let X-Box 1 live out its shelf life instead of trying to beat Sony and Nintendo to the punch this Christmas. Flameswordsman is simply concerned with the way Microsoft is treating their fanbase which is with little respect in my opinion especially taking into consideration its $400 price tag to get the real console pacakge.
But if anyones still jazzed this Tuesday for 360, more power to ya!
I'm sorry, but whining about 360's wireless controllers haveing rechareable batteries is not just a concern over how Mircosoft is treating their costumers. Each system has it's strength and weaknesses. Nintendo is going with a system that is even less "next generation" than 360 in hardware, but is making up for that with content and a crazy ass controller. Microsoft is offering things through 360 that the PS3 won't even be able to touch. Forget that X-Box already has a tried and tested online service already established with fans ready to go online with the 360 the day it comes out. Microsoft is using its PC know-how to allow the 360 to pull files off your computer's hard drive, whether it be MP3s to play during your game or mods you've made for online games. Also, movie distributors are getting more behind online distribution because of the higher availability of broadband service as well as 360's ability to share files with a PC to allow audiences to view downloaded material on their regular TV's.
The latest graphics hardware is more Sony's style. That's not Microsoft's strategy, and I don't think it ever has been. For years, Microsoft has been trying to make the PC the center for the entire household without the end result they really wanted. Now, the X-Box is being put into place as the hub between the TV and PC. The 360 is all about the perks.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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thedoctor said:
From what I can see, your disappointment is your own fault and not Microsoft's. How the hell else did you expect a wireless controller to work without batteries?
Next gen leap could have also incorporated new technological specs, like a controller that doesnt need batteries. Answer me this: Whats the point in a wireless controller that costs you more money than the regular kind, in battery costs, or more money by buying a charger to juice it up in regular intervals? Its just a poorly thought out gimmick
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Even when you learn that there's the corded option (which you said you wanted) you just bitch.
Yeah, the corded, regular controller, is cheaper. Why picture a wireless controller in all the 360 photo shoots when its a limited edition piece of shit that costs you even more money than the usual, for no forseeable extra benefits. I'd rather give my extra money to a charity than Microsoft
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As far as "how can you sell a system without a hard drive?" Ask Sony. Seriously, this is a way to get the system into people's hands quicker and cheaper at $300 instead of $400.
Except you have to have a hard-drive in order to access Xbox-Live, and you have to have X-Box-Live in order to get any semblance of backwards compatability. So, in effect, your paying for backwards compatability, another complete joke!.... Unless ocourse you want to do the whole CD burning thing, which is more trouble and money if you dont have the right equipment
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You can buy a hard drive later and just slide it in. I see nothing wrong with the 360. It looks kick ass, and I can't wait to get it. And in case you missed it, Microsoft is offering two versions of X-Box Live. A free version and the pay version that gives you more options.
Yeah, I did miss it, does this Free version of Xbox-Live actually do anything worthwhile? Even if the free version of Live does allow the joke Microsoft calls 'backwards compatability', do you think its right that you'd need a Hard-drive in the first place to even consider playing old games?
The whole thing just seems like a glorified graphics boost, something that probably could have been achieved by some sort of original Xbox mod of some kind, but because Microsoft know they're in deep shit with the competition, they decide to market it as a whole new console. Besides, im happy with the graphics of current games. Sure I'd like everything to look like the Final Fantasy movie, but not at the cost of the 360. It should plummet in price sooner or later anyway, the current crop of consoles did, and I remember feeling especially pissed off when the current Xbox did...
As far as the file transfers from the PC and the ability to play your music over games goes, its good. I like it. However, its not worth a whole new consolse to do it, atleast in my opinion
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"So you see, 'Ring around the Rosey' refers to the horrible symptoms of a terrifying disease, a disease which.....a disease which....ZIM! Theres a Pigeon on you're head. You have 'Head Pigeons'. get to the Nurse before they spread to the other children."
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thedoctor said:
The latest graphics hardware is more Sony's style. That's not Microsoft's strategy, and I don't think it ever has been.
Wow, that...That's total bullshit.
Just about every single game that's been exhibited by the PS2 has been centered around gameplay. They've never made a big deal about graphics. In anything, Microsoft's the one who's been resting its existence on the fact that it's games look nicer on screen.
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microsoft is the one that focuses on graphics. thats been their main drive since day one. nintendo has been the one to focus on gameplay.
sony's card is in hipness and, in turn, game library.
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I'm not talking the marketing campaign. I'm talking about the actual machine itself. All of the earlier stuff I saw and heard about the 360 emphasized its connectability with your PC as well as its online capability. The guys who built the 360 put their most effort on the software to allow the networking. The marketing people, of course, are pointing out the pretty graphics just like Sony's marketing is for the PS3 with Killzone and their titles. I've paid more attention to the developers than Microsoft's PR. The 360 games, while still trumpeting their graphics, mostly push the online aspects of the game. The PS3 games, with their lack of a stable online support, push their pretty graphics more. Nintendo is pushing the fun of their games with their crazy ass controller.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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my shpeal above was for this generation. the next gen (360, ps3, rev) will start off with that, but branch out.
in that case you're correct -- sony will push more of a graphical standpoint, going from "worst to first" in that department. they're now the horsepower company, hoping to take the best graphics and apply that to the best library.
microsoft will push their "live" feature, while additinoally taking a giant ps2-like leap into the next gen world, providing next gen graphics months, if not years, ahead of competition. their hope is to unite the market (under their hat) with great graphics and online interactivity.
nintendo's hope is to appeal to their 20+ year fan base with downloadable classics, and retro minded all star cast, all while pushing ahead with free online networks. and all of this is merely to support the "revolutionary" gaming style, based upon their new controller.
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
microsoft is the one that focuses on graphics. thats been their main drive since day one. nintendo has been the one to focus on gameplay.
sony's card is in hipness and, in turn, game library.
Not true. Nintendo hasn't been about gameplay since the 64. Nintendo more than likely figured that the Cube could get by on the use of famous characters. That's why Miyamoto requested exclusive use, by Cube, of the Metal Gear Solid remake from Kojima.
PS2 has been the console to introduce the most original gameplay in the entire history of its marketing.
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thedoctor said:
The PS3 games, with their lack of a stable online support, push their pretty graphics more.
If all you're basing this on and is a bunch of new trailers, that doesn't make much sense. Every console has been exhibiting, what they hope to be, really eye-catching previews.
Last edited by Pariah; 2005-11-21 9:28 PM.
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Pariah said:
Not true. Nintendo hasn't been about gameplay since the 64.
that is opinion. and a grossly inaccurate one.
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Pariah said:
Nintendo more than likely figured that the Cube could get by on the use of famous characters. That's why Miyamoto requested exclusive use, by Cube, of the Metal Gear Solid remake from Kojima.
also not true.
a fault of the n64 was in nintendo's thinking that they could rely solely on first party games, so that might be what you're thinking of.
however, your depiction of the cube philosophies is off. companies like konami and titles like MGS or resident evil found their way to the cube because of a strong relationship between the japanese companies, and as a pride "attack" against microsoft.
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Pariah said:
PS2 has been the console to introduce the most original gameplay in the entire history of its marketing.
wow. 
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Rob Kamphausen said:
that is opinion. and a grossly inaccurate one.
Wow. I totally disagree.
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a fault of the n64 was in nintendo's thinking that they could rely solely on first party games, so that might be what you're thinking of.
I'm not sure what "first party" is supposed to mean, but I do know that Cube rested the fate of its generation on resurrecting and re-digitizing a bunch of old characters that still hold a lot of sentimental value with many gamers. It came up with very few original ideas.
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companies like konami and titles like MGS or resident evil found their way to the cube because of a strong relationship between the japanese companies, and as a pride "attack" against microsoft.
I didn't comment on how they "found their way" to Cube. I pointed out that their sales strategy relied heavily on using famous characters to sell games.
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wow.
Please feel free to point out where I'm wrong. Sony had many different producers make new games which later formed new genres, which were later improved by the original games the PS2 asked for. Zone of Enders comes to mind, also Prince of Persia, GTA 3, The Suffering--I could even count MGS2 on a couple levels.
Last edited by Pariah; 2005-11-22 1:24 AM.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
that is opinion. and a grossly inaccurate one.
Wow. I totally disagree.
you said "Nintendo hasn't been about gameplay since the 64," which i can't imagine anyone would agree with, even nintendo haters. thats a well-recognized nintendo strength (often times cited as the only strength)
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Pariah said:
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Rob Kamphausen said:
a fault of the n64 was in nintendo's thinking that they could rely solely on first party games, so that might be what you're thinking of.
I'm not sure what "first party" is supposed to mean, but I do know that Cube rested the fate of its generation on resurrecting and re-digitizing a bunch of old characters that still hold a lot of sentimental value with many gamers. It came up with very few original ideas.
geebus, pariah.
"first party" is a gaming term, that refers to games developed by the console maker. thus, games like mario and zelda are nintendo's "first party" games. "second party" refers to games that are created by a separate, yet owned, company. rare was a second party to nintendo and is now a second party to microsoft. "third party" refers to games developed by outside companies typically, but not solely, for multiple consoles. EA is a third party example.
also, pick a console ... are you talking about cube or n64?
now, what do you deem an "original idea"? are you talking about new IPs, like pikmin? are you talking about bold direction sets, like prime's 3d metroid world or starfox's land-based "adventures"? are you talking about the never-before-or-since seen gameplay and storycrafting from eternal darkness?
you can disagree with the enjoyment factor, or site sales statistics in your claim, sure, but... ideas or gameplay wise... c'mon...
my point, before, was that nintendo 64 relied too heavily on nintendo saying "we dont need anyone else" and just going their own route. the result was a thin library. and, regardless of how many classics or hits they generated, one-to-two games a year was not the desire western gaming audiences.
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Pariah said:
I didn't comment on how they "found their way" to Cube. I pointed out that their sales strategy relied heavily on using famous characters to sell games.
thats flawed for a number of reasons. first of all, thats a strategy employed by all console makers and all gaming companies. "halo" had just a bit of hype, if you'll recall. madden and gta are pretty strong contenders. companies use their franchises, that goes without saying. im sure you're aware ps3 is promoting their next metal gear chapter, no?
but can you name the other konami games nintendo made exclusive or partially exclusive? for example, viewtiful joe was unheard of. killer 7 was a brand new tale.
if their strategy was to just use famous characters, then they missed the point from the get go (i.e; that wasn't their strategy)
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Pariah said:
PS2 has been the console to introduce the most original gameplay in the entire history of its marketing.
Please feel free to point out where I'm wrong. Sony had many different producers make new games which later formed new genres, which were later improved by the original games the PS2 asked for.
thats, really, a definition of every game machine in the past 20 years.
ps2 would not even outrank the first ps in terms of original gameplay. not even close.
this entire generation is essentially built on making the previous generation look better -- parallel to how the 16 bit era was simply an "upgrade" from the 8 bit generation.
i'd much more credit the ps1, n64, and even dreamcast with revolutionary gameplay -- the evolution of 3d gaming, alone, tops anything this genearation cranked out.
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
you said "Nintendo hasn't been about gameplay since the 64," which i can't imagine anyone would agree with, even nintendo haters. thats a well-recognized nintendo strength (often times cited as the only strength)
Nintendo, lately, has been mostly a bunch of 3rd person cartoony characters getting one ups. I hand a notable exception to Metroid Prime--Although the sequel made the re-animated genre redundant.
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also, pick a console ... are you talking about cube or n64?
I've been talking about Cube the whole time. My mention of 64 was over the shoulder.
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now, what do you deem an "original idea"? are you talking about new IPs, like pikmin? are you talking about bold direction sets, like prime's 3d metroid world or starfox's land-based "adventures"? are you talking about the never-before-or-since seen gameplay and storycrafting from eternal darkness?
Eternal is another Concession I'll make as far as originality goes.
To define "originality" as far as Cube goes: There hasn't been any effort to make new characters or graduate from the same ol' same ol' third person Mario64 type games. Putting StarFox on land, for example, was a step backward in that sense. PS2, on the other hand, has given it's "second parties" ample opportunity to move on from this kind of redundancy. Cube even went so far as to reject some of the games that the other consoles had.
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my point, before, was that nintendo 64 relied too heavily on nintendo saying "we dont need anyone else" and just going their own route. the result was a thin library. and, regardless of how many classics or hits they generated, one-to-two games a year was not the desire western gaming audiences.
I'm sure you've already figured it out by now, but I wasn't talking about 64 when I made that comment.
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thats flawed for a number of reasons. first of all, thats a strategy employed by all console makers and all gaming companies. "halo" had just a bit of hype, if you'll recall. madden and gta are pretty strong contenders. companies use their franchises, that goes without saying. im sure you're aware ps3 is promoting their next metal gear chapter, no?
GTA 3 had a lot more new gameplay material to offer than just its name--So does MGS4. But you miss my point, Cube's flagship games ended up being Mario Sunshine, Starfox, Metroid Prime, and Super Smash Bros.. I don't find that any other console relied on whoring oldie characters as much as Cube did.
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if their strategy was to just use famous characters, then they missed the point from the get go (i.e; that wasn't their strategy)
"From the get go"? That's BS. As I noted up top, they made a big deal out of games with veteran characters. What few original games they came out with didn't even come till later.
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thats, really, a definition of every game machine in the past 20 years.
I realize this, but I'm saying that PS2 was the only one in the past generation to put more emphasis on it. This is opposed to Nintendo's reliance on recycling [old story/characters] and Xbox's graphical exhibition.
Best example: GTA 3's graphics sucked, but it didn't matter cuz' everyone knew the gameplay would blow everyone out of the water.
Last edited by Pariah; 2005-11-22 1:27 AM.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Nintendo, lately, has been mostly a bunch of 3rd person cartoony characters getting one ups.
Quote:
Pariah said:
To define "originality" as far as Cube goes: There hasn't been any effort to make new characters or graduate from the same ol' same ol' third person Mario64 type games.
pikmin was an entirely new IP. viewtiful joe was the launch of a whole new franchise. your two concessions of eternal darkness and metroid prime are pretty mighty. luigi's mansion was the birth of a former sidekick in a non tradtional role. donkey konga brought a franchise character out of traditional controls.
its an enormous list that you can choose to appreciate or value, but you can't ignore its existance.
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Pariah said:
Putting StarFox on land, for example, was a step backward in that sense.
perhaps. thats a preference point (and one i'd agree with, btw). but putting starfox on land, cel shading zelda, doubling up mario kart... these are all examples of breaking the "same ole same ole."
i really dont see where you're coming from, here.
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Pariah said:
PS2, on the other hand, has given it's "second parties" ample opportunity to move on from this kind of redundancy.
second, or third?
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Pariah said:
GTA 3 had a lot more new gameplay material to offer than just its name--So does MGS4. But you miss my point, Cube's flagship games ended up being Mario Sunshine, Starfox, Metroid Prime, and Super Smash Bros.. I don't find that any other console relied on whoring oldie characters as much as Cube did.
gta is whored every bit as zelda, dont ever mistake that. hell, you continue to make reports and commentaries about editions of the upcoming gta and metal gear months, if not years, before they're even playable. and any "new gameplay material" you find in mgs4 or gta 3, you'll find in every new incarnation of zelda or smash bros. hell, no example from this era shines more than halo2, and even that isn't at fault. all the same, its still a weak argument to claim a company pushes its franchises -- all companies do it because thats what all companies want to do. its in all of their best interest.
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Pariah said:
"From the get go"? That's BS. As I noted up top, they made a big deal out of games with veteran characters. What few original games they came out with didn't even come till later.
i'm going to hope that you now disagree with this.
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Pariah said:
I realize this, but I'm saying that PS2 was the only one in the past generation to put more emphasis on it. This is opposed to Nintendo's reliance on recycling [old story/characters] and Xbox's graphical exhibition.
its a great opinion, and you're entitled to it.
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Pariah said:
Best example: GTA 3's graphics sucked, but it didn't matter cuz' everyone knew the gameplay would blow everyone out of the water.
yeah, it was one of xbox's better games, good point.
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Rob Kamphausen said:
luigi's mansion was the birth of a former sidekick in a non tradtional role. donkey konga brought a franchise character out of traditional controls.
its an enormous list that you can choose to appreciate or value, but you can't ignore its existance.
Firstly, Luigi's Mansion and Donkey Kong are no different from all the other Mario clones.
Secondly, the list isn't all that enormous. And the point that I'm piggy-backing on top of the Cube whoring old characters is that the ratio of originality you're pointing out is overshadowed by legions of mario spin-off and sequel games--Or games with damn near identical gameplay/composition.
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perhaps. thats a preference point (and one i'd agree with, btw). but putting starfox on land, cel shading zelda, doubling up mario kart... these are all examples of breaking the "same ole same ole."
i really dont see where you're coming from, here.
You misunderstand. What I meant by bringing up Starfox is that their decision to put him on land makes the Starfox gameplay no different than the third-person games. Dog-fighting was the last bit of uniquity he had. MarioKart's still a racing game and Zelda's still a third person adventure. In that rite (and I know you're gonna disagree with me here), I don't think they should have bothered with another MarioKart. The only reason I don't say the same about Zelda is because (not unlike MGS) it relies more heavily on both story AND gameplay.
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second, or third?
Either really. Producer, maker--They're both involved.
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gta is whored every bit as zelda, dont ever mistake that....
....all companies do it because thats what all companies want to do. its in all of their best interest.
I'm not going to argue with you on that, but I would like to point out that they played Zelda for the sake of Link whereas they played GTA, very notably, for its gameplay.
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yeah, it was one of xbox's better games, good point.
A little reminder: PS2 had a 9 month exclusivity contract with Rockstar.
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I played Grand Theft Auto III for the first time because I heard rumors about being able to smack bitches and kill pigs in uniform. Couldn't care less about gameplay. I fucking hated the controls as they're not too intuitive when you're on foot.
I'm more accustomed to the WakkaWakka-Wakka-Fruit-Wakka-Wakka style of gameplay, by the by.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
PS2 has been the console to introduce the most original gameplay in the entire history of its marketing.
Whu?
What about X-Box's integration of online support to console games? Halo? Splinter Cell?
Fact is that all three systems did a lot to push the boundaries of gaming. We expect more now from our systems than we did before the current generations came out. Backwards compatibility was introduced with the PS2, but now everyone expects all gaming systems to have that as well as DVD capability, a hard drive, and online support. You just need to get your head out of your ass.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051122/ap_on_hi_te/xbox360Quote:
Fans Line Up to Buy New Xbox 360
 NEW YORK - Gaming fanatics turned out overnight across the country to buy up Microsoft's Xbox 360 as it went on sale today. GameStop, EB Games and Best Buy opened hundreds of stores across the country for midnight launch events. Buyers also lined up at 24-hour Wal-Mart stores.
Most retailers have refused to say how many of the consoles they have in stock, but Microsoft Corp. has conceded that an ambitious plan to launch the console worldwide within a few weeks will mean fewer consoles initially in North America.
While many of the eager buyers were focusing on the system's high-definition graphics and gaming aptitude, executives at Microsoft see video games as just the beginning.
The new consoles, which also can play music, display photos and show DVDs, are at the center of a strategy that will eventually tie in elements of Microsoft's new online initiative, called Windows Live, said company Chairman Bill Gates.
"In the living room itself, Xbox 360 is our centerpiece and a product that redefines what goes on there," Gates said.
Gates said Monday that he expects Xbox Live, Microsoft's service that allows gamers worldwide to play one another, to eventually work with a Microsoft instant messenger that is slated to become part of Windows Live.
Windows Live is Microsoft's newly launched effort to better compete with free, advertising-financed Web services like e-mail and search technology from competitors led by Google Inc. and Yahoo Inc. (Nasdaq:YHOO - news)
Microsoft already offers limited ways for people on Xbox Live to communicate with those on Microsoft's messaging software, but the new offering — not yet slated for release — would expand that significantly.
Gates said he's also expecting a new Xbox service called Microsoft Points, which lets people prepay for things like virtual armor or other game-related items, to eventually work with Windows Live, so people could use a single account to pay for offerings there, too.
Analyst Rob Enderle said the move to more closely link Xbox Live with Windows Live intends to bolster loyalty to Microsoft products. Microsoft "can tie that stuff together so that you as a customer become wedded to the Microsoft platform for everything you do," he said.
Microsoft's major console rival, Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news).'s PlayStation 3, also is expected to offer alluring digital entertainment capabilities when it debuts next year.
With the new Xbox system, Microsoft also is significantly expanding what people can do — and buy — from Xbox Live itself.
Gates said one big bet is that game companies will use Xbox Live to sell incremental upgrades and additions to existing games, thus extending a game's life.
Analyst Matt Rosoff with independent researchers Directions on Microsoft said efforts to sell game add-ons through Xbox Live are probably more likely to immediately meet success than the grander plans to become a home entertainment hub.
Microsoft — and Gates in particular — have long touted the idea of the high-tech living room and den, but the concept is still too geeky for most people, Rosoff said.
While Gates may spend lots of time thinking about how important Xbox is to his corporate strategy, the Microsoft co-founder said he doesn't have much time to play the game system himself.
"I'm not a heavy gamer, I'm a light gamer — something to do with my job," Gates said.
"The people on (the Xbox) team can all kill me within about 60 seconds on Halo, so I try and avoid them."
After standing on a city street for more than 28 hours, with only a blanket to protect him from the cold and rain, Peter Gonzalez had no doubt about what he should do next: stay up all night playing video games.
The 19-year-old college student was among the gaming fanatics who waited for hours to be among the first to snag an Xbox 360. Stores began selling the systems at 12:01 a.m. Tuesday.
"I feel amazing," said Gonzalez, who was first in line at a Best Buy store and planned to play all night before heading to an 8 a.m. class at the College of Staten Island. "It's going to be worth it."
At a 24-hour Wal-Mart location in Woodbridge, Va., where hopefuls sat in folding chairs that snaked around several aisles, staffers said the waiting line had exceeded their inventory by 10 a.m. Monday.
Associated Press Writer Ted Bridis contributed to this report from Woodbridge, Va.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Flameswordsman said:
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thedoctor said:
From what I can see, your disappointment is your own fault and not Microsoft's. How the hell else did you expect a wireless controller to work without batteries?
Next gen leap could have also incorporated new technological specs, like a controller that doesnt need batteries. Answer me this: Whats the point in a wireless controller that costs you more money than the regular kind, in battery costs, or more money by buying a charger to juice it up in regular intervals? Its just a poorly thought out gimmick
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Even when you learn that there's the corded option (which you said you wanted) you just bitch.
Yeah, the corded, regular controller, is cheaper. Why picture a wireless controller in all the 360 photo shoots when its a limited edition piece of shit that costs you even more money than the usual, for no forseeable extra benefits. I'd rather give my extra money to a charity than Microsoft
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As far as "how can you sell a system without a hard drive?" Ask Sony. Seriously, this is a way to get the system into people's hands quicker and cheaper at $300 instead of $400.
Except you have to have a hard-drive in order to access Xbox-Live, and you have to have X-Box-Live in order to get any semblance of backwards compatability. So, in effect, your paying for backwards compatability, another complete joke!.... Unless ocourse you want to do the whole CD burning thing, which is more trouble and money if you dont have the right equipment
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You can buy a hard drive later and just slide it in. I see nothing wrong with the 360. It looks kick ass, and I can't wait to get it. And in case you missed it, Microsoft is offering two versions of X-Box Live. A free version and the pay version that gives you more options.
Yeah, I did miss it, does this Free version of Xbox-Live actually do anything worthwhile? Even if the free version of Live does allow the joke Microsoft calls 'backwards compatability', do you think its right that you'd need a Hard-drive in the first place to even consider playing old games?
The whole thing just seems like a glorified graphics boost, something that probably could have been achieved by some sort of original Xbox mod of some kind, but because Microsoft know they're in deep shit with the competition, they decide to market it as a whole new console. Besides, im happy with the graphics of current games. Sure I'd like everything to look like the Final Fantasy movie, but not at the cost of the 360. It should plummet in price sooner or later anyway, the current crop of consoles did, and I remember feeling especially pissed off when the current Xbox did...
As far as the file transfers from the PC and the ability to play your music over games goes, its good. I like it. However, its not worth a whole new consolse to do it, atleast in my opinion
xbox offers a hard drive..every other system makes you pay out the ass for memory cards (the only option! with xbox you can upgrade later or buy cards for it--and they don't make you buy blue-tooth dvds). I'd gladly pay some extra money for a hard drive and some rechargable batteries thank you..why not bitch at the phone companies too??? phones with wires used to not need batteries...and damn those answering machines that cost me extra money....
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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I admit that it was pretty stupid of Microsoft to pull systems from the American market to help stock the European and Asian releases as far as the American market goes; but it seems like they really want to break into those markets a little more than they want to overtake this. Perhaps they feel that Sony won't be able to get the PS3 out in time to keep a hold on here in the States. Quote:
Son of Mxy said:
I'm more accustomed to the WakkaWakka-Wakka-Fruit-Wakka-Wakka style of gameplay, by the by.
Interesting. I'm more of a Wakka-Wakka-Fruit-Wakka-WakkaWakka style myself.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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Pig Iron said:
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Flameswordsman said:
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thedoctor said:
From what I can see, your disappointment is your own fault and not Microsoft's. How the hell else did you expect a wireless controller to work without batteries?
Next gen leap could have also incorporated new technological specs, like a controller that doesnt need batteries. Answer me this: Whats the point in a wireless controller that costs you more money than the regular kind, in battery costs, or more money by buying a charger to juice it up in regular intervals? Its just a poorly thought out gimmick
Quote:
Even when you learn that there's the corded option (which you said you wanted) you just bitch.
Yeah, the corded, regular controller, is cheaper. Why picture a wireless controller in all the 360 photo shoots when its a limited edition piece of shit that costs you even more money than the usual, for no forseeable extra benefits. I'd rather give my extra money to a charity than Microsoft
Quote:
As far as "how can you sell a system without a hard drive?" Ask Sony. Seriously, this is a way to get the system into people's hands quicker and cheaper at $300 instead of $400.
Except you have to have a hard-drive in order to access Xbox-Live, and you have to have X-Box-Live in order to get any semblance of backwards compatability. So, in effect, your paying for backwards compatability, another complete joke!.... Unless ocourse you want to do the whole CD burning thing, which is more trouble and money if you dont have the right equipment
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You can buy a hard drive later and just slide it in. I see nothing wrong with the 360. It looks kick ass, and I can't wait to get it. And in case you missed it, Microsoft is offering two versions of X-Box Live. A free version and the pay version that gives you more options.
Yeah, I did miss it, does this Free version of Xbox-Live actually do anything worthwhile? Even if the free version of Live does allow the joke Microsoft calls 'backwards compatability', do you think its right that you'd need a Hard-drive in the first place to even consider playing old games?
The whole thing just seems like a glorified graphics boost, something that probably could have been achieved by some sort of original Xbox mod of some kind, but because Microsoft know they're in deep shit with the competition, they decide to market it as a whole new console. Besides, im happy with the graphics of current games. Sure I'd like everything to look like the Final Fantasy movie, but not at the cost of the 360. It should plummet in price sooner or later anyway, the current crop of consoles did, and I remember feeling especially pissed off when the current Xbox did...
As far as the file transfers from the PC and the ability to play your music over games goes, its good. I like it. However, its not worth a whole new consolse to do it, atleast in my opinion
xbox offers a hard drive..every other system makes you pay out the ass for memory cards (the only option! with xbox you can upgrade later or buy cards for it--and they don't make you buy blue-tooth dvds). I'd gladly pay some extra money for a hard drive and some rechargable batteries thank you..why not bitch at the phone companies too??? phones with wires used to not need batteries...and damn those answering machines that cost me extra money....
 
I love the whole "They should have come up with something better, but I don't know what" line in response to the wireless controllers having batteries. Any technology that could have been implemented to not require a replaceable or rechargeable power source would only cause for a higher price for people to bitch about as well as quite possibly cancer.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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All that said I won't buy an xbox 360 until the price drops....or there is a star wars game I must own...
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thedoctor said:
I love the whole "They should have come up with something better, but I don't know what" line in response to the wireless controllers having batteries. Any technology that could have been implemented to not require a replaceable or rechargeable power source would only cause for a higher price for people to bitch about as well as quite possibly cancer.
Like you said, we all expect much more from our consoles these days, and for roughly the same price's. Would a controller that doesnt need batteries have been that much of a leap into the unkown? Who's to say it would cost more? Im sure it bloody well would have been, but we expect more from our consoles for the same prices, why not more from the controllers
"Now TV's all about format these days isn't it, and I've got a new type for you right here.
Its me and Paris Hilton driving around in a car.... Now I know what you're thinking, but she's in the boot!"
"So you see, 'Ring around the Rosey' refers to the horrible symptoms of a terrifying disease, a disease which.....a disease which....ZIM! Theres a Pigeon on you're head. You have 'Head Pigeons'. get to the Nurse before they spread to the other children."
"Get off my lawn Cookie Beast!"
--Invader Zim
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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I expect a gorgeous supermodel-esque woman with great tits to pop out of my video game console. Does that mean I have a right to be pissed at Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony when that doesn't happen?
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Firstly, Luigi's Mansion and Donkey Kong are no different from all the other Mario clones.
yer... going out of your way to comment on things you dont even know about ...?
luigi's mansion involves the main charater exploring a house, room by room, in a psuedo-resident evil style creep show. you then use two analog sticks, one for control and one for "weapon", to defeat various ghosts with a vacuum cleaner. clone, it is not.
donkey kong's cube game was a side scrolling adventure that the user controlled with bongos. bongos! all of the enemies were defeated with claps and slaps, as well as jumping and running and all interaction. odd and niche, but very fun.
if y'simply don't like something, thats cool. but dont continue making matter-of-fact comments on things you have no facts on.
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Pariah said:
the ratio of originality you're pointing out is overshadowed by legions of mario spin-off and sequel games--Or games with damn near identical gameplay/composition.
again, this is true of all franchises, and all consoles. nintendo may have more older characters, but they've also had 20+ years of the business. every street fighter, every halo, every sonic, every mortal kombat, every pacman, every madden, every everything is based on what came before it.
its not a valid point if every console and game is guilty of it.
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Pariah said:
You misunderstand. What I meant by bringing up Starfox is that their decision to put him on land makes the Starfox gameplay no different than the third-person games. Dog-fighting was the last bit of uniquity he had. MarioKart's still a racing game and Zelda's still a third person adventure.
holy crap.
and every new metal gear isn't based on the same gameplay? or tomb raider? or quake?
this is every game you're detailing. if you honestly feel 'wind waker' is just another 'oot' then you can make the same exact argument relating any newer game to its predecessor.
you, personally, happen to like resident evil or metal gear solid storylines, and because of that, you're somehow excluding them from the negative connotations that you're applying to other games, even though they just as readily apply to yours.
yer just being silly.
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Pariah said:
I'm not going to argue with you on that, but I would like to point out that they played Zelda for the sake of Link whereas they played GTA, very notably, for its gameplay.
check them zelda gameplay scores. from anyone. link is the star, but the game is the core.
the same amount of people that play zelda just for link would play gta just for hot coffee.
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Pariah said:
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yeah, it was one of xbox's better games, good point.
A little reminder: PS2 had a 9 month exclusivity contract with Rockstar.
and?
its still not a boon to the console with "the most original gameplay" if the game in question appears elsewhere. similarly, in this stance, gamecube couldn't proclaim one of the madden games as proof its the greatest with gameplay.
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
luigi's mansion involves the main charater exploring a house, room by room, in a psuedo-resident evil style creep show. you then use two analog sticks, one for control and one for "weapon", to defeat various ghosts with a vacuum cleaner. clone, it is not.
Rob, it's the same camera view, the same mission system, and the same cheezy characters. No amount of vacuum cleaners is going to change how uncanny the design is to everything. Fine, they've changed how the life bar works, they've got an inventory, a flesh-light, and vaccum cleaner. All this list does is make it sound like more than it really is. This may be a matter of opinion, but are you going to honestly tell me that Luigi's Mansion isn't like Mario64?
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donkey kong's cube game was a side scrolling adventure that the user controlled with bongos. bongos! all of the enemies were defeated with claps and slaps, as well as jumping and running and all interaction. odd and niche, but very fun.
Actually, I didn't know there was a "Konga". I thought you just misspelled "Kong". I guess I should have gotten suspicious when you started talking about a game not on the Cube. My bad.
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again, this is true of all franchises, and all consoles. nintendo may have more older characters, but they've also had 20+ years of the business. every street fighter, every halo, every sonic, every mortal kombat, every pacman, every madden, every everything is based on what came before it.
its not a valid point if every console and game is guilty of it.
ARG! I already said that I wasn't arguing over whether or not all systems do it. Of course that's true. What I've been saying is that Cube has been the one who had to actually rely on such a sales tactic. How many MGS games come out a year? 1. Now lets hold that number up to the amount of Mario clones that have come out under Cube. There's a rather sizeable difference.
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and every new metal gear isn't based on the same gameplay? or tomb raider? or quake?
No, Spyro and Bomberman are more suited for comparison. Games like Manhunt, ZOE, and The Suffering are more truer examples of actual evolution. They're a few games out of many that PS2 licensed--And each one brought something new to the third-person genre which affected later games. PS2 games have been more concerned with changing all facets of a game than the games of the other two systems. Nintendo just keeps going in circles with its nostalgic characters and redundant camera angles and Mario Parties--With the exception a few original games.......Every other six months. And finally, Xbox has been focused on graphics. Period. Does this mean its games haven't been fun? No. But that doesn't mean that gameplay was a bigger priority for its makers either.
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you, personally, happen to like resident evil or metal gear solid storylines, and because of that, you're somehow excluding them from the negative connotations that you're applying to other games, even though they just as readily apply to yours.
False. Before Resident Evil 4 and its new game engine, I disliked every single Resident Evil out there except for number 2. In fact, I think Sony whored RE on the PS1 just as Cube did for its 'Mario and Friends' genre.
And, again, until I see around 3 MGS games coming out each year with little to no improvements evey incarnation, saying that "all companies do it" as the crux of your counter-argument is rather silly.
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check them zelda gameplay scores. from anyone. link is the star, but the game is the core.
the same amount of people that play zelda just for link would play gta just for hot coffee.
I seriously doubt most of the fanboys out there would play a Zelda game that wasn't spear-headed by Link. Gameplay scores or no, one hand always washes the other as far as ratings on a game go--And I mean fan ratings. The most bias and sellable ratings out there.
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its still not a boon to the console with "the most original gameplay" if the game in question appears elsewhere.
PS2 is the one who brought it to the table in the first place. I'm sure you'd try to rationalize that Xbox would've proved it believes in gameplay over graphics if it got the chance to license it first, but since PS2 licensed it before anyone else, your point fails.
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thedoctor said:
What about X-Box's integration of online support to console games? Halo? Splinter Cell?
Firstly: I'm talking about games. I would have put Online Support and Backwards Compatibility in their own categories if I was talking about em'.
Secondly: I didn't say Xbox didn't make any achievements. I realize that every console has done just that to some extent. I'm just saying that PS2 has made more accomplishments.
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thedoctor said:
The marketing people, of course, are pointing out the pretty graphics just like Sony's marketing is for the PS3 with Killzone and their titles.
To suckers that actually believe that footage is real.
Voted "Biggest Waste Of Space" On The Bat-Boards For "Multiple Reasons" Jerry Falwell On Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer:"Those hollywood, homosexual, jewish types making a show about a reindeer who is 'different' and just cant 'hide it'. Everyone knows if he tries hard enough he can convert himself to a normal, black-nosed reindeer." I am 95% addicted to Porn. What about you?
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Why does everyone think that the PS3 won't be able to achieve real with the quality seen in the KZ trailer just cuz' the previews were played on the Alpha? It's more possible than people give credit for.
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betrayal and collapse 5000+ posts
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...you tell stories, we tell lies.
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Pariah said:
Why does everyone think that the PS3 won't be able to achieve real with the quality seen in the KZ trailer just cuz' the previews were played on the Alpha? It's more possible than people give credit for.
I think its the fact that some game publishers have expressed big concerns over the PS3. Wasnt it Kojima who said that people were expecting too much from the PS3 based on the non-gameplay scenes showed at all the big conventions? Some other publishers have also expressed that they would like to work on the 360 more than the PS3, because its easier. Maybe they're just pussy light-weights, but it may be above the average publisher to deliver on the scale that the PS3 has already shown. Im strongly hoping its not though!
"Now TV's all about format these days isn't it, and I've got a new type for you right here.
Its me and Paris Hilton driving around in a car.... Now I know what you're thinking, but she's in the boot!"
"So you see, 'Ring around the Rosey' refers to the horrible symptoms of a terrifying disease, a disease which.....a disease which....ZIM! Theres a Pigeon on you're head. You have 'Head Pigeons'. get to the Nurse before they spread to the other children."
"Get off my lawn Cookie Beast!"
--Invader Zim
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At Risk Youth 400+ posts
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I can come up with a long essay explaining why the Killzone "ingame footage" is a huge fabrication but I'll just cut it short.
How about the fact that only one piece of footage was ever released? And not another word. After spending years making a flop of a game Guerilla can come up with that godly masterpiece in under a year? It's like how 3d Realms marketed Duke: Nukem Forever.
Oh yeah:
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cobra kai 15000+ posts
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
luigi's mansion involves the main charater exploring a house, room by room, in a psuedo-resident evil style creep show. you then use two analog sticks, one for control and one for "weapon", to defeat various ghosts with a vacuum cleaner. clone, it is not.
Rob, it's the same camera view, the same mission system, and the same cheezy characters.
you've never even seen this game, let alone played it, have you?
its not the same camera view. its a fixed, non-rotating third person camera, that follows luigi through a 2.5D environment. all previous mario games have used a fixed 2D camera or a free-floating 3D camera.
there are also no missions. its a singular quest played out in its entirety. the genre has been referred to as "forced storybook"
i mean, honestly, yer going above and beyond "not knowing what you're talking about" here. at least read about the game before commenting on it.
as for the character useage, yes, its luigi, and yes, we've seen him before in other games. how thats a bad thing, or a unique-to-nintendo thing, i couldn't tell you. however, its the first time he has starred in a game (he hadn't even been in a mario game since snes), and he's used in a totally new direction and storyline, entirely unrelated to previous tales and/or games.
you have no point here.
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Pariah said:
are you going to honestly tell me that Luigi's Mansion isn't like Mario64?
the games have absolutely no similarity.
there are no turtles. there is no stomping. there are no platforms. there are no mushrooms or any powerups. there are no levels. hell, luigi can't even jump in the game.
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Pariah said:
Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:donkey kong's cube game was a side scrolling adventure that the user controlled with bongos. bongos! all of the enemies were defeated with claps and slaps, as well as jumping and running and all interaction. odd and niche, but very fun.
Actually, I didn't know there was a "Konga". I thought you just misspelled "Kong". I guess I should have gotten suspicious when you started talking about a game not on the Cube. My bad.
donkey konga is on the cube. here.
...tho, admittedly, thats not the game i was describing. i meant donkey kong jungle beat.
other than those, donkey kong has not had a game in this generation.
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Pariah said:
How many MGS games come out a year? 1. Now lets hold that number up to the amount of Mario clones that have come out under Cube. There's a rather sizeable difference.
well, if you continue your stance that all nintendo games are mario clones, despite a lack of similarity, then i guess you do have a point.
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Pariah said:
PS2 games have been more concerned with changing all facets of a game than the games of the other two systems.
i think you'd even find many ps2 fans to disagree.
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Pariah said:
Nintendo just keeps going in circles with its nostalgic characters and redundant camera angles and Mario Parties--With the exception a few original games.......Every other six months.
truly spoken like someone who doesn't check out the games.
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Pariah said:
And finally, Xbox has been focused on graphics. Period. Does this mean its games haven't been fun? No. But that doesn't mean that gameplay was a bigger priority for its makers either.
has the xbox made no strides in online gaming?
i mean, geebus pariah, i'm a nintendo fanboy, but even i can see the strengths of xbox and ps2. y'gotta unclench, my friend.
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Pariah said:
And, again, until I see around 3 MGS games coming out each year with little to no improvements evey incarnation, saying that "all companies do it" as the crux of your counter-argument is rather silly.
just trying to speak your language.
there's been one mario game in this entire generation, mario sunshine. one in the previous entire generation, mario 64. how many metal gears came out for ps2?
now, if your argument is specifically against mario party, thats fine. there are a lot of mario party games, which are really only very popular in japan.
but you can't act as though those games speak for the entire console.
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Pariah said:
I seriously doubt most of the fanboys out there would play a Zelda game that wasn't spear-headed by Link. Gameplay scores or no, one hand always washes the other as far as ratings on a game go--And I mean fan ratings. The most bias and sellable ratings out there.
well, thats a difficult argument to make. what is an example of a zelda-like game without a zelda-like theme?
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Pariah said:
PS2 is the one who brought it to the table in the first place. I'm sure you'd try to rationalize that Xbox would've proved it believes in gameplay over graphics if it got the chance to license it first, but since PS2 licensed it before anyone else, your point fails.
very well. madden 04 was released on the cube a day earlier than the other consoles because of a promotion. thus, i credit gamecube with madden 04's gameplay.
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Quote:
Rob Kamphausen said:
you've never even seen this game, let alone played it, have you?
Yes I have. So I don't know what the heck you're talking about. And we’re prolly not gonna agree on this. So whatever.
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donkey konga is on the cube. here.
That's what I said. I didn't know there was a game called "Konga", let alone a game called "Konga" that was on the Cube. I assumed you were talking about the character being used on Smash Bros. and MarioGolf or something cuz' I hadn't heard of him getting his own game.
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well, if you continue your stance that all nintendo games are mario clones, despite a lack of similarity, then i guess you do have a point.
I didn’t say all Nintendo games, I said it was the bulk of Nintendo games.
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i think you'd even find many ps2 fans to disagree.
I don’t.
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truly spoken like someone who doesn't check out the games.
What. Ever.
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has the xbox made no strides in online gaming?
i mean, geebus pariah, i'm a nintendo fanboy, but even i can see the strengths of xbox and ps2. y'gotta unclench, my friend.
Like I said to Doc, I recognize that as one of their accomplishments, but as far as I’m concerned, the online versatility of Xbox is in a category all its own. I’m talking individual games and their content.
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just trying to speak your language.
there's been one mario game in this entire generation, mario sunshine. one in the previous entire generation, mario 64. how many metal gears came out for ps2?
Please.
After MGS 2, it was 3 years before Snake Eater followed it. And I did use years, not generations.
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but you can't act as though those games speak for the entire console.
As far as gameplay is concerned, I’ll agree to disagree, but I will admit that I am more of a swing-voter at this point. You will not, however, convince me that the characters (Mario and Friends) don’t speak for the entire console.
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well, thats a difficult argument to make. what is an example of a zelda-like game without a zelda-like theme?
I’m drawing a blank.
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very well. madden 04 was released on the cube a day earlier than the other consoles because of a promotion. thus, i credit gamecube with madden 04's gameplay.
Fine. I’m not sure if it technically counts since all systems probably had it licensed at the time whereas Xbox didn’t have a chance to license GTA till the 9 month period was up, but I’ll let it go.
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Anonymous One said:
I can come up with a long essay explaining why the Killzone "ingame footage" is a huge fabrication but I'll just cut it short.
If you mean "fabricaton" as in "the Killzone trailer wasn't produced on the PS3" then you're correct. It's already been divulged that the trailer was produced through the IBM Alpha hardware. However, the construction on the Alpha was meant to mimick the affects of the PS3. Saying the PS3 (or Guerilla) couldn't produce the graphics in real is premature.
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How about the fact that only one piece of footage was ever released? And not another word.
You've lost me with this.
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After spending years making a flop of a game Guerilla can come up with that godly masterpiece in under a year?
What's so unbelievable about it? Hideo Kojima himself said that he wanted to add a whole bunch more rendering to Metal Gear Solid 3 (and I don't just mean the Subsistence add ons), but he was hampered by the lack of versatility of the modern generation consoles. This could be the case with Guerilla.
Last edited by Pariah; 2005-11-25 8:01 AM.
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graemlin protector 6000+ posts
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i owned all 3, and from what i got, xbox, i played for football, and first person shooters, seemed to be what they geared for, or what i got out of it. ps2, i really only played for the rpg's which made up 75% of my games. cube i got for, basically, mario, zelda, animal crossing. i got for my old favs, and some of the newer, different games i saw.
i found the xbox controller a pain, didn't like it much at all, ps2's was familiar, and easiest at first, while, wierd, cubes controller i liked the best.
i think ps2 had the best games, and had me coming back with the ff's, and others in that genre, nintendo had me back with updates and innovations to older characters. and xbox, i really only had to play the sports games, madden mostly, because well, all my pals had madden on xbox, i got xbox last, cheaper, and mostly for convenience for my friends.
i think ps2 had the games to come back for more, cube had the new spins on favs, and new games with an odd twist to the gameplay that had me buy on. xbox was just, where my game choice, and gameplay sat, was suckin that hind teet the whole way.
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Who will I break next? 15000+ posts
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I saw this on display today at wal-mart.
I want one. The graphics were amazing. Almost 3-D like. Better than anything I've ever seen before, in a threater or on a high-def TV.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Yeah.
Like I wrote earlier, everything else looks silly next to a 360.
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What are you using for comparison?
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Exactly. They do need to turn down the brightness though. And not let non-english people play it.
I am so getting one once a game comes out I actually want.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Quote:
Pariah said:
What are you using for comparison?
I've been playing GT4 on a HD TV for the last couple days. I thought it couldn't get any better than that. I was proven wrong. We don't have the HD cables for the PS2, but it still looks amazing.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
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I was talking about something more in the same weight class. Say, the PS3.
Are you guys saying its going to top the Revolution and PS3 no contest?
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No...but right now, the graphics are un-bee-lee-veably aweshome!
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