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If there are people interested into writing a round robin story set in the Vanguard universe, please post here to count us and discuss the how, where and when of this thing.
Please state whet are your ideas, what kind of character would you like to use, if there are rules you believe are important to follow and why.
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Yes.
I would love to give this world a fresh new look and atmosphere.
Some of you know me from old...some of you only knew me a short time, and some of you don´t know me at all.
So to all of you I will explain what I intend to do in this new start:
I will try my best to create "real"characters. Characters who may be heroes or villains but still "human". Another term for that is "flawed".
I believe enviroment is important, so I´ll try to describe the enviroment around the characters more.
I will focus on Chrasher...(and explain why she isn´t with Jackie (Ameristar) anymore in one single scene).
The one rule I would love for all to follow is: Set each other up!
Use cliffhangers and sometimes twist the story with a surprising revelation or happening that no one could have guessed. to make it more dynamic. And when it is done, no whimpering about "Hey I wanted to go in this or that direction", just go with the flow, allow your imagination to adapt to the consequences of the last post.
This way it becomes a challenge, not only for your general writing skills, but also for your imagination to work out a solution for any kind of scene we create.
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I'm definitely interested. I'm always up for trying out new ideas, and can definitely say that I'll be willing to follow any ideas tabled. That said, I'm still somewhat nervous when it comes to tabling ideas in a round robin situation, so for a while at the start I'll probably follow and develop other's ideas, rather than start springing really new stuff.
As for any kind of idea or theme, I would suggest that we keep continuity references to a minimum. part of what I struggled with was always continuity, so if we could keep it simple that'd be good.
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If I don't have to dive into all the continuity since I left posting, I'm up for it! (Euro, you know well my continuity obsession  )
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Okay, Euro. You wanna do this thing? And you want it to at least be on some level compatible with Vanguard continuity? Let's have everyone who at least recently (as in within the past calendar year  ) was fairly involved put their heads together and come up with something. If we can all have a hand in the crafting of this new plotline, I'm all for it. I want to make it easy for everyone to get involved, but if you want Vanguard, let's try to salvage as much as we can, okay?
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personally, I think you're all shooting yourselves in the foot trying to restart within the Vanguard Universe continuity. no matter how much you try not to bring back the old plotlines somebody's going to start bringing old stuff in. We had that experience on Vanguard Europe, as well (which was started to get away from the ongoing plots also).
I think you'd be better served just making a clean break and doing a streamlined or "Ultimate" version of the characters.
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Grimm: I understand what you mean, but I tried that with the "broken glass" (or whatever it was called) story, and it had a nice start, but failed miserably. I guess many are interested into the Vanguard characters, and I understand, for example, that Danny, altough maybe now is tired of writing, expressed clearly that he has still things to tell about his character, so why don't give the possibility?
Also, I think it's an interesting experiment to see if we can let a universe survive more than the four years that was the lifespan of the previous (MBL-TOMB) universe.
Sammitch: frankly, I am not interested in Vanguard per se, and I would prefer to create a team with another name. I just want to keep the same universe, to let the characters survive with their story intact (or altered) if the writers of such characters wants to continue to tell things about them. The name of the team for me it is not important, just I miss the fun of round robin and want to see if there is a way to bring back the fun.
In general: re-starting when important things like Manhattan and other stuff have not been solved "by writing", just sayng that they HAVE BEEN resolved off screen, it's a way to say that past continuity MUST not be the main issue of this Universe.
Looking at the future and not at the past should be what drives us, else we would fail to attract new writers, and, most important, if new writers come, they must feel able to manage freely the stuff of the story.
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As we shift our focus from the actual Vanguard team, the title should reflect that in the way of being more general.
Perdita, which belongs to Vanguard should perhaps be left behind as well (except for when needed in the story) so we can give the new story a fresh start both with characters as well as location.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Okay, Euro. You wanna do this thing?
Yes.
And you want it to at least be on some level compatible with Vanguard continuity?
Yes.
Let's have everyone who at least recently (as in within the past calendar year ) was fairly involved put their heads together and come up with something. If we can all have a hand in the crafting of this new plotline, I'm all for it. I want to make it easy for everyone to get involved, but if you want Vanguard, let's try to salvage as much as we can, okay?
Sure, that's why I created this thread and asked to come not only to who is interest into actually writing, but also to who is interested into having the Universe to continue to exist.
But one thing I want is to be clear: this is a fresh start in an estabilished continuity. The story and, if we'll be lucky to continue after the first story, the serie, will be about the character of the people that actually join the writing.
I don't know if the team will be called Vanguard or another name, if there will be actually a team of superheroes or our character will be metahuman employee of CIA or FBI or Army another estabilished or fictional force, BUT I don't want to bring in past characters if there are not their posters around TO POST. Even as supporting characters.
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Quote:
The Indestructible Man said:
If I don't have to dive into all the continuity since I left posting, I'm up for it!
(Euro, you know well my continuity obsession )
You posted once in a collective story and once or twice in a solo story set in the Vanguard Universe, so I guess for "since I left posting" you refer to the MBL-TOMB Universe.
IMO, if we'll finally do this, the continuity needed to be known will have to be contained in the first post of the story. Also, all the background "canonical" and needed to be known for the reintroduced estabilished character will have to be in their introductory post IN story.
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How about a "Restart-Character Profile" thread?
In this we post the character we want to use, name, characteristics, abilities and a short summary of the character´s backgound.
That way all the writers in this new story will have a easy way of checking any info they need when writing each other´s characters.
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Quote:
Eurostar said:
IMO, if we'll finally do this, the continuity needed to be known will have to be contained in the first post of the story.
That's a great idea, since it not only allows all the readers to get up to speed but also any guys looking around to pick up on it. Plus, might I suggest a kind of 'Previously on [story name]' post at the start of each story, containing any important details, to keep us up to speed.
Quote:
Also, all the background "canonical" and needed to be known for the reintroduced estabilished character will have to be in their introductory post IN story.
Again, great idea. If we go with T5's profiles thread, which I'm thoroughly in favour of (it worked like a charm for the JLR), we can also put some of it in there.
For me, there's only one other issues: Whether the team will be vanguard or not. Personally, I'm in favour of a new team, with a new name and new locale. That gives us a valid reason to ignore Vanguard Continuity, yet still use Vanguard characters if we want to (old guys join new teams all the time).
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Quote:
T5 said:
How about a "Restart-Character Profile" thread?
In this we post the character we want to use, name, characteristics, abilities and a short summary of the character´s backgound.
That way all the writers in this new story will have a easy way of checking any info they need when writing each other´s characters.
That's tradition of our storytelling, to have a "secret files" thread. So, I am in favour of your proposal, T5. But I think it's important to state what's it's really important for any of the character re-introduced IN the story. Obviously that could and should be done creatively, but I think must be in the story, and should be just what everyone NEEDS to know.
Example with my character:
in the story, I will say that Edulcore Cicciotto was once an Italian Olympic track star (that means he is a well known figure in the world), that after was revealed to be a metahuman had to give back the medals and fell into despair (that means he has resentment toward the world at large), and along other metas started a revolution that int eh long run brought the metas to be accepted in the world (and that means he is proud of what him, with the others, has accomplished). I will also say that he has a son that he keeps hiding somewhere (that means that he is a fatherly figure, with his sense of duty broken between his role as an hero and a father/ but also that the son is not part of general continuity within the stories-i.e he will not be around, unless once- and for now I don't plan it- he could be the subject around which a story revolves).
I will also say that he is nicknamed "the Thunderbird", has natural wings on his back and has a mace of mithological origin that can brings lighitings and thunders.
That is what everyone should know to write Euro accordingly to my vision.
In the Character Profile thread I can put more information (that his son is really a clone of himself, that he is what brought him in the first place to come to America and start the Revolutionaries, how he developed his powers, how the wings regrew after were stripped away years ago...) but that should not be foundamental for the collective stories. Every character should be grasped and understood with just a few lines of description and the past should be recognized mostly just for what had a great influence on the shaping of the character.
Talking about Crasher, if you permit me, T5, I think what it is really important is to know that she was raped twice during her missions, and the second time by his half brother, and how that reshaped her behaviour. And that should be in the story post, along with her basic powers and current whereabouts.
The relation with Ameristar and the relation with his father Mirrdyn, instead, I would describe in the Character Profile thread, as both of them, IMO, should appears in the story only if brought in as story devices, once. And to be freely disposed by anyone in the story.
I think the Morrison JLA should be a good example: the heroes seen in their iconic role, and interacting only between themselves, with their personal life/continuity left in their solo titles.
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Quote:
T5 said:
The one rule I would love for all to follow is: Set each other up!
Use cliffhangers and sometimes twist the story with a surprising revelation or happening that no one could have guessed. to make it more dynamic. And when it is done, no whimpering about "Hey I wanted to go in this or that direction", just go with the flow, allow your imagination to adapt to the consequences of the last post.
This way it becomes a challenge, not only for your general writing skills, but also for your imagination to work out a solution for any kind of scene we create.
I think this is a good suggestion, but it should be better detailed.
I like the idea of challenging. It's the base of round robin.
But, it require
•respect for the characters. I wronged in a big way regarding this in the past, let's not repeat this.
•respect for the story. A one post solving of a previously created situation is not an acceptable solution.
but also:
•respect for the round robin. The story and the serie is in the hand of the collectivity, so no one can reserve a particular place (Mandelovia, La Perdita, Hell...), theme (aliens, mythical gods, secret societies, boy scouts...) or time (ancient Atlantis, the far future, ten years from now...).
Nor one could expect to develop a long plot for future fruition without anyone touching the matter.
Once something is written in the collective ongoing story, it should be handled by anyone in the direction he feels. If you want to do things away from the free reign of everyone, do it in solos... but they become canonical only once they are in the collective story.
This is how I see the round robin.
There is one other issue, that was brought once by a possible newcomer (was him PigIron, maybe? I don't remember...) that suggested that we shoudl keep a fixed lineup even if writers come and go.
I honestly think it was a good idea. To follow that suggestion, we should start our story with the characters of the posters who join the writing, and then continue to use them even if the posters stop to post.
I leave to the majority of the interested people to accept or discard this suggestion...
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Quote:
SpandexMonkeyMan said:
Quote:
For me, there's only one other issues: Whether the team will be vanguard or not. Personally, I'm in favour of a new team, with a new name and new locale. That gives us a valid reason to ignore Vanguard Continuity, yet still use Vanguard characters if we want to (old guys join new teams all the time).
It is a view I share entirely.
Maybe it's due to the fact that for me the team was just renamed Vanguard, but originally was Revolutionaries and later MBL, so that I am not so tied to the name, even if I am very fond of it.
A new name I think would makes the things easier.
Last edited by Eurostar; 2006-01-08 1:56 PM.
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A general question to the one who wants to write:
do you prefer to start with
• a team/society/organisation who has been estabilished by some time, and the story is just one of their mission, of which there have been others previously in the missing year, "offscreen"
• the actual gathering of the character around a reason to exist (a menace require gifeted people to band/ an organisation-governement-corporation enlists gifted people to perform a mission.
Personally, I prefer the second, as the interaction of the various character would be born much more naturally.
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I prefer the second too. It allows for greater character development re: interpersonal relationships, and will also allow people to get more of a handle on the guys before having to get to the meat of the story.
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I'm interested in joining in a collective story again, but to be honest I'm not too crazy about the more spontaneous approach T5 suggests. I've found that stories done like that tend to start with a lot of enthusiasm and then erode until we reach a point where no one knows what to do or where to go. When we started the HR universe that didn't always stop us for too long because, every time it got stuck, someone (usually Euro) took control of the story and closed the main plot in one or two longs posts, so the rest of us could continue writing. This is OK, but I'm not very interested in doing that at this point.
I think the future is in more planned stories, with moments where improvisation can be used, but all in service of one main plot (having too many unrelated plotlines is something else I don't like). Each story should be "lead" by a different person (like I did with the Murder Mystery experiment) who knows the key moments of the plot, and the rest should move within the boundaries of what the leader has established.
Also, I've never liked "Secret Files" threads. I consider them cheating. I usually ignore them, because if some piece of information isn't revealed during the course of the story, then it's not relevant to the plot and everyone can't be expected to know it. There are ways to let the rest know what powers your character has (like, using them), and ways to let the rest know the important parts of his personal history. I don't mean posting mini-biographies in the middle of a post... "and then our character remembered the day he was born..." or giving long scientific explanations at the middle of a fight, just be creative and make sure you tell us what we really need to know. Long biographies I despise as well: if it doesn't play into the plot or shape the way your character behaves, why do I need to know that he broke a leg playing Street Fighter in fifth grade?
That's it... I'm not telling the rest what to do, just saying what I'd be interested in doing, in case anyone else feels the same way.
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Obviously Mxy's right, it's important not to bog any Bio thread we may create get bogged down with stuff nobody needs to know. But I would like to say that I find bio/secret files really useful when I start writing a character.
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The spontaneous idea was just a suggestion. If you guys prefer to have more planned stories ...I´m all for it...I love those too.
Then we come to another matter, how will we determine who´s turn it is to start a story?
I have an idea for it.
At the end of each arc we simply post a title with a (very short) story outline and we simply vote on which one seems most interesting at the time...but...we need to have a rule that no writer will get to have his or her stories to close to each other, so others can contribute.
So that at least 3 arcs must be finished before the same writer can start a new one.
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I'm always a fan of spontaneity with a purpose, if that makes any sense.
That, and I look forward to writing a straight-forward character for once!
(I-Man started off with a other-dimensional origin and then picked up lots of temporal rigamaroll for what should have been a generic superhero. My small stab at the Vanguard Universe with Prestor John was FAR to convoluted and I gave up a few posts in...)
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I think a very important point you guys need to address right away is what kind of stories you're interested in doing. The reason I feel Vanguard Europe failed is because it was created with an intent to be more Planetary in it's styling with more emphasis on concept and story but wound up being another JLA/Avengers-esque set up for fight scenes. Unfortunetly, many of the characters and, it seems, writers were set up specifically for muscle bound mayhem or fisticuffs, if you will, and left me uninterested in the project. I suggest that it becomes clear from the get-go what each of you wants out of this writing and what you'll bring to the table before getting too involved with things like continuity (another thing I was wanting VE to break away from).
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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A good point, given how I remember MBL and TOMB metamorphisizing over time.
I'm personally akin to the idea of smart superheroics, if that makes any sense.
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Quote:
Im Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I think the future is in more planned stories, with moments where improvisation can be used, but all in service of one main plot (having too many unrelated plotlines is something else I don't like). Each story should be "lead" by a different person (like I did with the Murder Mystery experiment) who knows the key moments of the plot, and the rest should move within the boundaries of what the leader has established.
I can agree on this, but it is necessary to be clear at the start of the story. In issue 18 me and TTT proposed exactly this kind of story, telling that we have an aidea for the conclusion while there was freedom in the middle, then we we did our ending everyone screw up negating our story. Now, surely I wronged not recognizing what was the genral feeling toward the story, but if we go by Mxy's proposed road, then we have to respect the final output despite what we feel about it. Obviously, we can't single handly overhaul the setting of the "team" (ie, changing the status of the team, the place they live and thing like that) as the result of a story without consulting with everyone (but that was not our intention in that damned story).
By the way, both kind of telling a story can cohexist in the serie. when one has an idea like the Murder Mystery we go that route, when one has just the ending in mind (like for Danny vs Hal or issue 18) we let the end play like the starter of the story wants) and when the starter of the story says there is complete freedom, we try that way. After all, in variety there is fun.
If stories "more planned" are great like the Murder Mystery, I am all for that.
Quote:
, I've never liked "Secret Files" threads. I consider them cheating. I usually ignore them, because if some piece of information isn't revealed during the course of the story, then it's not relevant to the plot and everyone can't be expected to know it. There are ways to let the rest know what powers your character has (like, using them), and ways to let the rest know the important parts of his personal history. I don't mean posting mini-biographies in the middle of a post... "and then our character remembered the day he was born..." or giving long scientific explanations at the middle of a fight, just be creative and make sure you tell us what we really need to know. Long biographies I despise as well: if it doesn't play into the plot or shape the way your character behaves, why do I need to know that he broke a leg playing Street Fighter in fifth grade?
Like I said, what should be known by everyone MUST be in the collective story, exactly like you suggest. Then, secret files could also be fun to read, and if done like once Velo suggested, with mini solo stories that presents the hero, can also be creative. Just, again like you are saying, must not be required to read to grasp a character.
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Quote:
T5 said:
...how will we determine who´s turn it is to start a story?
I have an idea for it.
At the end of each arc we simply post a title with a (very short) story outline and we simply vote on which one seems most interesting at the time...
It's an interesting idea, that we could put to use right now to propose how to start the first story.
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
I think a very important point you guys need to address right away is what kind of stories you're interested in doing. ... I suggest that it becomes clear from the get-go what each of you wants out of this writing and what you'll bring to the table before getting too involved with things like continuity (another thing I was wanting VE to break away from).
Very good suggestion, the tone and scope of the stories is foundamental.
Personally, I am torn between cosmic/psichedelic superhero action a la Morrison, or a more realistic approach delving with real world issue like terrorism, war, plagues...
I think we should either say what kind of stories we want, to create (or revamp) our heroes to fit, or to state what our characters will be like, to find the mood for stories to fit them... I hope what I try to say is understandable.
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The Indestructible Man said:
I'm personally akin to the idea of smart superheroics, if that makes any sense.
Probably does, but can you be more specific for me poor foreigner? 
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Personally I think we should mix, some stories should be "smart", and some should be plain "actionesque" fun.
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I guess that come naturally.
Personally, I have no stories in mind to be "told". I am waiting for proposal by others, or just to see where a story born out of nothing could go.
But if there are others with great stories like the Murder Mystery to put on the table, I would be ever more excited.
Last edited by Eurostar; 2006-01-09 8:28 AM.
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To recap, it seems that things on which more or less most agree is that:
• the story should be planned, but allowing some deal of spontaneity, with a "master" (the one who starts the story) with the rights and duties of keep it in tracks
• existing continuity to keep about Universe and characters must be minimal, and be recapped at the beginning of the first story, in a creative way. Also, at the start (crossing fingers) of the following stories, a short recap of what went before must be in a prelude post.
• "secret files" thread will be done, but must not be a required read for understanding the characters. I would say the same for the "solo stories". What should be aknowledged by everyone must be in collective stories.
If I mistook something, if I took for granted some things that were not really agreed upon, pardon me and point it out to discuss more.
If OK, I take T5 suggestion of putting, before the start of the issue, a few plots idea to choose from. I post mine, everyone is invited to do the same.
I would start this simple way: "one year later" there are no known metahumans groups/organizations in the world. The Pentagon dispatch officers to find metahumans, enlisting them for a secret mission that only them can perform. At the end of the mission, they could be either form a "private" team, or become a branch of a national security body. The secret mission could be:
a) there is a blob of antimatter (or a stray planet) heading toward Earth (this is a nod to Pro's idea for revamping the MBL)
b) terrorism group is planning to drop nuke heads into a volcano in the Pacific, to create artificially a "small ice age" shielding the sun with the eruption clouds. The act would be performed by metahumans, and normal agents wouldn't be able to stop them.
c) Out of nowhere, Iran developes a laser shields system to protect its territory, and now, protected from any possible retaliation, prepare a full scale attack over Israel. America enlists the metas to try a way to stop the attack.
This are just possibilities, as I come up with them just now, but they illustrates my three grades for a possible kind of setting. The first is the cosmic stuff, that requires just immagination and creativity; the second is more of a silver age quality, the third is much "adult", with an impossible, unrealist premise and then we struggle to be realistic in the consequences.
Personally, I would stay away from demons/angels/mythical gods. We have done them to death in the past years, both in the MBL Universe and in the Vanguard one, in the end they are one of the biggest device to create convoluted continuity, personal realms and whole bags of trivia to be known/remembered. I would also say the same about magic, after all, we could say that in the "last year" some unwritten moment could have eliminated out magic from the world. Personally, I think any thing "different from normal" should come from the metagene.
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I won't put any story ideas on the table myself at this point, as I really like Euro's ideas. Myself, I'm going for one or three, most particularly three because of the way my Vanguard character (who I may or may not import) was going. That said, if there's a majority in a different direction I'm cool with that.
And I agree with the whole 'supers only' policy. I liked the more mystical side, but it was silly.
OOK OOK ACK EEK!
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
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Quote:
I would also say the same about magic, after all, we could say that in the "last year" some unwritten moment could have eliminated out magic from the world. Personally, I think any thing "different from normal" should come from the metagene.
including Euro's thundermace, right?
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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Peacock Teaser 3000+ posts
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I'll rejoin if we start off with something completly new. I don't want to see Phil or Euro or Banshee come back in some new reincarnation. The mentioning of the words 'Perdita' or 'Manhattan' will drive me away.
If we really want to start over, than we really need to start over.
"You're either lying or stupid."
"I'm stupid! I'm stupid!"
Megatron and Starscream
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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I get the same feeling. It's nothing against others' characters, I'm as tired of mine as I am of yours.
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Quote:
Eurostar said:
Quote:
The Indestructible Man said:
I'm personally akin to the idea of smart superheroics, if that makes any sense.
Probably does, but can you be more specific for me poor foreigner?
Grant Morrison is a good example, along with books like JSA or Brubakers Captain America.
As for leaving out the old, I'm looking forward to a concept removed from what I've written before character-wise. Gonna stetch my Morrison muscles for a non-meta 
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... 10000+ posts
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Quote:
Im Not Mister Mxypltk said:
I get the same feeling. It's nothing against others' characters, I'm as tired of mine as I am of yours.
Pretty much.
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Quote:
Grimm said:
Quote:
I would also say the same about magic, after all, we could say that in the "last year" some unwritten moment could have eliminated out magic from the world. Personally, I think any thing "different from normal" should come from the metagene.
including Euro's thundermace, right?
Good point.
No, it will be a normal mace. The lighting will come from the metagene. Ha!
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living in 1962 15000+ posts
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touche. though by my count, you've now got five votes for a complete restart (myself, CJ, Mxy, Chewy, and I-Man). although I haven't committed to writing anything yet, due to my schedule.
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Look, I have got nothing toward restarting from scratch myself.
Just, last time we talked about this (it was CJ that started the talk then) it seemed that most people wanted to just revamp, and not reboot, the Universe.
Phil and Danny, for example, said that they had still things to tell with their characters, so they were for simple revemping the serie.
I think the "one year later" gizmo could work to concile the two vision.
If in the world all the old plots have been resolved, Vanguard doesn't exist anymore and you bring in completeley new characters, what is the difference from starting from scratch again? But this way, if Danny (or Phil) wants to bring in his character in the new team, with his current howabouts, he can.
Anyway, I think what matters most is to know who is really interested into writing again and what he/she does prefer, a revamp or a complete starting over, count us and do as majority prefers.
I believe writing in seven or eight in a new Universe is better that writing in four in a revamped one.
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